Should the Kings get a new coach next year ?
- Thread starter Casspi
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Well, everyone knows you'd prefer a new one here, Omri.
As for me, absolutely. A lot of the sentiments against Westphal have been expressed by many repeatedly through the year, but I have no idea what his stature is within the organization currently. It doesn't help that the team is, essentially, rolling at the end of the year. But I still cringe at his total mismanagement of the SF position, and any time he trots out the Beno, Thornton, Reke backcourt, among other things.
As for me, absolutely. A lot of the sentiments against Westphal have been expressed by many repeatedly through the year, but I have no idea what his stature is within the organization currently. It doesn't help that the team is, essentially, rolling at the end of the year. But I still cringe at his total mismanagement of the SF position, and any time he trots out the Beno, Thornton, Reke backcourt, among other things.
Many people have there nickname named after a player but as an Israeli person liking the first and only Israeli player
in the NBA this forum treats me like **** and i am finished with it
every comment i comment even if it dosent have to do anything with OC u guys just trying being smart asses as always
in the NBA this forum treats me like **** and i am finished with it
every comment i comment even if it dosent have to do anything with OC u guys just trying being smart asses as always
I have a doubt now. And really as much as anything its a doubt of timing. We are coming together, we have found an unconventional lineup that really works...but its all still so new. If this had been us for the last few years and we brought in a new coach, sure, the blueprint would already be established and maybe he could just improve upon it. But with this all being so new the ways that a new coach could screw this up and set us back are myriad. You coudl bring ina guy too offensive minded, who sends Daly to the bencvh and sacrifices our defense. Too walk it up defensive minded who re-reduces the offensive sets to a series of isos. You could bring in a guy who is too much of a disciplinarian who could cause Cousins to check out on you. You can screw this up in at least as many ways as you can make it better. As always, it might always depend on who you brought in, but this is not longer a "why not/nowehere but up" sort of situation. Now there is a big path back down that could mess up this team' ascendance. I can make a prety good argument for honoring the last year of Westphal's contract, trying to ride this momentum into next year, and then after a full year of guys truly settling into these roles and making the team their own, then you think about whether to bring in a new coach, with the idea that the players,fans and team already know how to play together, and theri would be too much resistance for a new guy to **** it up trying to impress.
As long as you were careful with your offseason acquisitions its doubtful Westphal would screw with this too much.
As long as you were careful with your offseason acquisitions its doubtful Westphal would screw with this too much.
Didn't Geoff Petrie take around a $5M/yr or more pay cut when he signed his last extension? Does anyone have specific contract info on both him and Westphal. Obviously, Maloofs were in a downsizing mode when they extended Petrie and hired Westphal. While one or both "might" be gone by next season it seems to replace Petrie with say a Prichard would cost a helluva lot as well as trying to hire a big time head coach (Calipari?).
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No. I was never sold on Westphal being the problem in the first place. Now that Garcia is back, Tyreke is healthy, and they have Thorton, he's shortened up the rotation accordingly. He's a good coach, the players like him, and I think they should move forward with him. There's been enough coaching carousel nonsense for the last five years. Time to settle on a coach for the long term and i think Westphal is as good a choice as any.
Fair argument but I am not sure that I can trust Westphal not to start fiddling with line ups and rotations again. I don't know if he can help himself.
A few of the players won't be back next year and they will be replaced by free agents. For example, if we sign Kirlilenko, I can just about guarantee that at some stage Westphal will start Cousins - Kirlilenko front court with Garcia at SF, or even Tyreke - Thornton - Beno small line up.
He seems to always start the season out fiddling with line ups and rotations only to settle after the all-star break. It happened last year as well. He is too erratic for my liking.
It would depend on who the other possible coach is. If for example its Adelman, I would say sayonara to Westphal this minute. With the strong finish to the season, Westphal is probably likely retained for another year.
A few of the players won't be back next year and they will be replaced by free agents. For example, if we sign Kirlilenko, I can just about guarantee that at some stage Westphal will start Cousins - Kirlilenko front court with Garcia at SF, or even Tyreke - Thornton - Beno small line up.
He seems to always start the season out fiddling with line ups and rotations only to settle after the all-star break. It happened last year as well. He is too erratic for my liking.
It would depend on who the other possible coach is. If for example its Adelman, I would say sayonara to Westphal this minute. With the strong finish to the season, Westphal is probably likely retained for another year.
Keep him. I know everyone says he fiddles... but... it could have very likely been because it was exactly a nowhere but up situation, and he did really need to find things out. He's actually been coaching like he's got nothing to lose, taking a lot of freedom and risks. It remains to be seen whether he does this compulsively, or whether it is part of a process. I suspect the latter. But the best thing right now is stability. It makes very little sense to go out and get a new coach right now.
I don't think he fiddled with the lineups much in Phoenix/Seattle, but then again, I can't remember. This team was both too young and he had too many variables in the past two years to the point where you almost feel he had to fiddle and tinker to figure out what would work best for the long term. He seems to have settled on it for the most part. I don't feel that next year is the year to make a change with the coach. Switching coaches too often can kill a team.
This roster is wildly different than what we started with last year - weren't we starting Sean May in the hopes that Hawes would develop?
Anyway, here was the starting lineup for last year's first game:
Kevin Martin
Tyreke Evans
Jason Thompson
Sean May
Desmond Mason
with Hawes, Noch, Casspi and Rodriguez getting a bulk of the sub minutes.
This year's opening lineup:
Beno Udrih
Carl Landry
Francisco Garcia
Donte Greene
Demarcus Cousins
with Casspi, Head, Thompson, and Jackson getting a bulk of the sub minutes.
Dalembert and Thornton have been brought in via trade, moving Landry out, and head was waived.
Current starting lineup:
Tyreke Evans
Marcus Thornton
Francisco Garcia
DeMarcus Cousins
Samuel Dalembert
with Udrih, Thompson, and Greene getting all of the sub minutes.
My point is that Westphal was not playing musical chairs with a veteran roster familiar to each other's tendencies. You almost have to expect it given what he had to work with. He's settled on a rotation with players that will most likely be around for the long term, assuming free agency goes as it should. The only new variable should be at SF, but if a "starter" at that position is signed in the off-season, it should push Garcia down to the bench.
This roster is wildly different than what we started with last year - weren't we starting Sean May in the hopes that Hawes would develop?
Anyway, here was the starting lineup for last year's first game:
Kevin Martin
Tyreke Evans
Jason Thompson
Sean May
Desmond Mason
with Hawes, Noch, Casspi and Rodriguez getting a bulk of the sub minutes.
This year's opening lineup:
Beno Udrih
Carl Landry
Francisco Garcia
Donte Greene
Demarcus Cousins
with Casspi, Head, Thompson, and Jackson getting a bulk of the sub minutes.
Dalembert and Thornton have been brought in via trade, moving Landry out, and head was waived.
Current starting lineup:
Tyreke Evans
Marcus Thornton
Francisco Garcia
DeMarcus Cousins
Samuel Dalembert
with Udrih, Thompson, and Greene getting all of the sub minutes.
My point is that Westphal was not playing musical chairs with a veteran roster familiar to each other's tendencies. You almost have to expect it given what he had to work with. He's settled on a rotation with players that will most likely be around for the long term, assuming free agency goes as it should. The only new variable should be at SF, but if a "starter" at that position is signed in the off-season, it should push Garcia down to the bench.
We really need to stop changing coaches every couple of years. I say keep Westphal next season because who out there is available? maybe Sloan yeah but that's up in the air, besides him...I don't see any better options really that are willing to coach. If we keep having a coaching change all the time we are never going to develop chemistry and get to where we need to be. If Westphal feels the need to not stick to a consistent line up next year a couple of months into the season and the Kings still keep losing winnable games, well even then I'd wait til the end of the season to let him go. I say give him one more full season to work with to see if he changed his bad habits, if not well then it would be time to move on.
Don't forget we could have a work stoppage as well. Doubt MSE forks over for a new coach with all the expenses they might have coming up soon 
and with the possibility of no basketball-related income for a while. I don't know if the coach gets paid if there is a work stoppage or not, but can't see MSE paying PW and another coach on top of that right now.....
and with the possibility of no basketball-related income for a while. I don't know if the coach gets paid if there is a work stoppage or not, but can't see MSE paying PW and another coach on top of that right now.....I'd replace Westphal with Adelman if the Maloofs could afford him both financially and emotionally. Rick could probably do something special with this group. He's a significant upgrade over Paul W. No thanks on Sloan, wrong coach for our group. Outside Rick; I'd give Paul W. at least his last year. They're playing well now and he's not costing much.
i think PW had a decent amount of time to built this group of young players and make them a good team, and he failed. for me, the problem is that as a young team you expect to see them energized and fighting every day. there were long periods this season that the team looked unmotivated- and this is PW fault.
if the decision is made on the base of the last 2-3 months, keep him. but i remember that at the end of last season the situation was similar. the feeling was that the kings are improving and next year they will breakthrough.
but the main thing is the alternatives, and to be honest, as an israeli i'm not familiar with the coaches market - so i don't know what are the alternatives.
but if there are some realistic alternatives- i would say goodbye to PW.
if the decision is made on the base of the last 2-3 months, keep him. but i remember that at the end of last season the situation was similar. the feeling was that the kings are improving and next year they will breakthrough.
but the main thing is the alternatives, and to be honest, as an israeli i'm not familiar with the coaches market - so i don't know what are the alternatives.
but if there are some realistic alternatives- i would say goodbye to PW.
I have never been a huge PW fan. I will say though that he has the team playing some inspired ball right now. It would seem foolish to roll out another coach when things seem to be coming together. At the same time I don't want to let a mini surge at the end of the season overshadow the fact that I just don't think he's that great of a coach. He tinkers with lineups far too often, doesn't seem to have a real offensive/defensive game plan, etc. It kind of reminds me of the Singletary/49er era. They would stink for most of the year, then end the season on a high note and everyone is all warm and fuzzy and he is brought back. Then the next season starts and the same problems ensue. That being said, I would only get rid of PW if there is a CLEAR CUT UPGRADE available. And that does not mean John Calipari
If Sloan is down for the job, I'm down for an upgrade.
I dont think Westphal is a great coach, but I dont really think he is as bad as he seemed earlier in the season (its amazing how winning will do that!).
I still think he's horrible at developing youth (as evidenced by his treatment of our admittedly inconsistent SFs), his rotations can still be iffy at times even though he has finally tightened them up.
But alas...The team is starting to roll. So to echo Bricklayer's sentiments, if may be risky to mess this up.
We could do better... But there are a lot of Musselmans out there just waiting to wow the Maloofs with powerpoints on why they should be the next coach of the Kings.
I dont think Westphal is a great coach, but I dont really think he is as bad as he seemed earlier in the season (its amazing how winning will do that!).
I still think he's horrible at developing youth (as evidenced by his treatment of our admittedly inconsistent SFs), his rotations can still be iffy at times even though he has finally tightened them up.
But alas...The team is starting to roll. So to echo Bricklayer's sentiments, if may be risky to mess this up.
We could do better... But there are a lot of Musselmans out there just waiting to wow the Maloofs with powerpoints on why they should be the next coach of the Kings.
Two months ago, there was no doubt in my mind. Westphal was not the guy, and would be gone after the season. He couldn't settle on a lineup or a rotation, our offense would go through stretches where we couldn't get good shots, and we were losing down the stretch basically every night. But now we have a set lineup and rotation, guys are blossoming, developing real chemistry, and even though there are still growing pains (like last night), we're pulling close games out.
If we retain Dalembert and Thornton, I'd probably let Westphal stay for the third year and hope we can continue making positive strides into next season. If either or both of them leave, knock on wood, I'd consider getting rid of Westphal, because we'd probably have the same issue we had for the first four months of this season. Regardless of this issue, if there's a home run candidate available, and he's willing to sign on, Westphal gets shown the door.
If we retain Dalembert and Thornton, I'd probably let Westphal stay for the third year and hope we can continue making positive strides into next season. If either or both of them leave, knock on wood, I'd consider getting rid of Westphal, because we'd probably have the same issue we had for the first four months of this season. Regardless of this issue, if there's a home run candidate available, and he's willing to sign on, Westphal gets shown the door.
IMO the Kings should retain PW at least until his contract ends. To be fair to PW last season he did not have too much to work with and we must remember the organization's pursuit to have Tyreke win the ROY. Also Cisco had that freak accident. This season we got Cousins and he and the rest of the players needed to learn new plays and learn to play with each other. There was some growing pains with Cousins that affected the vibe. Tyreke lost quite a few games, too, due to his feet. If the player's would have learned the plays quicker and started winning more games PWs' tinkering would have been reduced. Hopefully this young team's progress isn't interrupted by a strike. These players need to go to training camp with what they learned fresh in their minds. The strike can last a month, two months or can wipe out the whole season. If the team does relocate to Anaheim I wonder if PW would be replaced??
We didn't get to see this team with a healthy Evans all year long, and the inconsistent Cousins and his antics haven't given the team enough to judge. I say one more year. See what he does with a more stable Cousins, healthy Evans, and the addition of Thornton. If he's still in the 20-25 win range with the team being incapable of closing close games, then cut him loose.
Ahh, the wind has changed for Westphal. And to my mind, Thornton, more than any other factor, is the reason for it. He's provided the impetus to tip this team in the win column. Tyreke being healthy doesn't hurt either. Westphal is the same coach. Middle of the road, just like when they hired him. As I've said before, the only way you unload Westphal is if you know you have a better coach in your hip pocket. If you don't know that, then you've got to go with Westphal because he does provide something that is valuable other than his average coaching - stability and consistency - both desirable commodities for a young team. I doubt that there's going be a coach out there who is clearly better than Westphal, and for whom the Maloofs would be willing to pay the big bucks. So given those assumptions, I'd opt for Westphal next year.
Westphaul provides stability and consistency? Really? I must be on the crack pipe because I haven't seen that in two years.
Things are finally being stabilized and I think it's a combination of a healthy Reke, a controlled cousins, Thornton's arrival, and PW finally realizing that he does have decent players to start and not have to play musical chairs all the time.
I'd give him one more year though.
Things are finally being stabilized and I think it's a combination of a healthy Reke, a controlled cousins, Thornton's arrival, and PW finally realizing that he does have decent players to start and not have to play musical chairs all the time.
I'd give him one more year though.