Sacramento pushing Anaheim ballot measure trying to force team to spend another year

[bajaden]

Not sure which side you're on, as both of them were being kind of snarky. But just because Sterling makes a profit in LA with bad teams, I don't think that means the fans should expect that just because we play in a small market we deserve a bad team or anything so the owners can make a profit. IIRC I read something from Forbes that in 06 the Kings were the 9th highest grossing team in the NBA at like 109 million dollars. I know Rookie's facts or questions or whatever regarding DOnald Sterling may be wrong, but his point about Sac remains valid IMO. A team can turn a profit by puting a decent team on the court, and just by fielding a playoff team they were the 9th highest grossing team in the NBA. I'm not saying that a new arena isn't needed because a team can turn a profit, because it definitely is and always has been. And I think while some of the fault is on the city(primarily Heather Fargo/Steve Cohn etc.) some of the blame lies at the Maloofs feet too. For example, they are taking a mediocre deal in Anaheim and making all sorts of concessions, and if they were willing to make that many concessions in 2006 or even just a few concessions we might have an arena by now and Q&R might have passed. The city hasn't really had a chance to get an arena done since then, because Stern was pushing that Cal Expo fan that unfortunately we all know now was doomed to fail.

If you don't know which side Carmichael Dave is on, then your living in another world somewhere. He was the one that started the fund to collect money for a new arena. Poorly put by me, but I think you understand. Frankly I'm sick and tired of people taking one thing and turning it into another. All Dave was doing was making a point to another poster, and I'm being kind here. That was it. It was that simple. There was no implication by him, that he wanted, or that the Maloof's should, follow Sterlings example.

But lets look at your arguement about making a profit by putting a good product on the floor. To put that good product on the floor, eventually your payroll is going to go up, and with that rise, your profit margin is going to go down. At some point, the amount of money you can bring in through ticket sales, and the amount of money you can spend on payroll are going to neutralize one another. The less attractive the venue, with less seating and corporate boxes, the sooner that happens.

Its all about competition, and right now the Maloofs are operating at a disadvantage compared to the Lakers, and yes, the Clippers. The amount of money they make off TV revenues pales by comparison to the Lakers. So essentially your asking the Maloofs to continue with things the way they are in hope, that this time, the city will actually come up with something you can grab hold of. I hope and pray that they do. But why should they. Please tell me just exactly what they owe you? Tell me what they owe Rookie? They're not running a charity organization, they're running a business, and when your running a business you do what you need to do to survive.

For 12 years, and 10 years in particular, the city did nothing. And as someone once said. The problem with doing nothing, is that you don't know when your done. As a result, someone else usually makes that decision for you. And the Maloof's did just that. I'm not happy about it, but it is what it is, and its always easier, and convienent, to point the finger of blame at someone else. I'd be curious to know how many games some of these people that are bitching have gone to over the years. And no! I'm not saying it makes you less of a fan if you haven't gone to many games. But I'am saying that the Maloofs don't make much money from people sitting at home watching the games on TV.

 

[rainmaker]

Oh so you’re an expert on how to run a business too, I see. Too bad you aren’t an expert of reading comprehension and strawamn arguments. If you were, perhaps you’d have realized that I never claimed that quality alone does it. But it would certainly do for the Kings here in Sacramento. Perhaps you aren't familiar with the team prior to 2007 though so you wouldn't know that.

.

That's funny. So you consider the past when it's convenient, and ignore it when it doesn't fit your agenda. You already said in this same exact thread the past doesn't matter. In fact you said, "What are you, Grant Napear 2.0? Not a single thing you mentioned there has **** to do with NOW." If we're only talking about "NOW", then why would anything having to do with the team before 2007 matter?

You know, maybe if your reading comprehension was a little better, you'd see how much your own posts contradict eachother.

 

[est.1999]

Rookies comments always contradict eachother; mainly because everything he says is based off his own emotions and the only way he feels better about himself is to put all the blame on the Maloofs. What a joke, dude should never ever run a business. He'll put small business owners, like myself, to shame.

 

[RookieOfTheDay]

Tell that to the boy that cried wolf. Tell that to an ex-con, that has trouble getting a job or wants to buy a gun. To think that what has happened in the past has nothing to do with the future is pure ignorance. Whats that old saying? He who forgets history is bound to repeat it. By the way, you just went on my ignore list, so don't waste your time responding to this post.

You're kidding right? You see, in your gun/job analogy, we'd be talking about the SAME PERSON who offended in the past. Thus we'd have reason to believe they may again. Kevin Johnson is NOT the same mayor who failed (offended) in the past. If you're going to make analogies, at least make them consistent with the pertinent facts.

 

[RookieOfTheDay]

I bolded the important parts to make things easier for you. I'm sure you'll rush to offer an apology and admit you were wrong. So drink a warm glass of STFU and remember: on the Internet, bluster and snark ALWAYS FTW.....



I know you'll have some awesomely snarky comeback, so fire away owned one. It's ok, it's just the inter web. No one can see you.

Well congratulations, Jr. Looks like you snuck onto mommy's computer and OWNED someone by copy/pasting information that you weren't even asked for. Do you want a cookie? I bet you feel like a big man now, don't you? Maybe if you try extra hard, you can PWN3D me next time. Wouldn't that be something to brag about at school?

 

[RookieOfTheDay]

Rookies comments always contradict eachother; mainly because everything he says is based off his own emotions and the only way he feels better about himself is to put all the blame on the Maloofs. What a joke, dude should never ever run a business. He'll put small business owners, like myself, to shame.

My comments are rarely contradictory. Maintaining consistency is something i always strive for. if you "think" I've said something contradictory it's most likely because you didn't fully read or didn't properly comprehend something that I said. i've bashed the Maloofs but I've bashed Sacramento as well. I've NEVER said the Maloofs were wholly to blame.

I’ve ran several successful businesses in my life and am comfortably self employed at the present. You wouldn’t know that though since you know nothing about me. It’s fun to pretend that you do though, huh?

 

[RookieOfTheDay]

Congrats on posting an article over 2 years old. How about current info.

Look at the current forbes info. Kings revenues for 09/10 season were $103, Clippers $102. Thats with the crappy Kings attendance.

Ohh you PWNED him!!!

 

[Capt. Factorial]

Ohh you PWNED him!!!

However you may have felt about Carmichael Dave's post, doing your best to be as juvenile as possible about it doesn't really look very good.

 

[RookieOfTheDay]

Owned. But what else is new. Well played Dave.

If you insist on planting your lips upon his nut****...get a room, please.

 

[RookieOfTheDay]

However you may have felt about Carmichael Dave's post, doing your best to be as juvenile as possible about it doesn't really look very good.

I respond accordingly. A post made in giant bolded letters just for the sake of being a wise *** deserves nothing more than a juvenile response.

 

[RookieOfTheDay]

However you may have felt about Carmichael Dave's post, doing your best to be as juvenile as possible about it doesn't really look very good.

I respond accordingly. A post made in giant bolded letters just for the sake of being a wise *** deserves nothing more than a juvenile response.

 

[The Hammer]

Ohh you PWNED him!!!

Wait, are you joking? Can't tell. Do you know the difference between REVENUE and PROFIT? Kinda wondering how old you are now... it's getting weird.

And, do you realize that there are more expenses than salary? And more revenue streams than ticket sales?

Each franchise is a dynamic business, with multiple sources of revenue, depending on many factors, probably some of which you and I have never even heard of. There's merchandising (worldwide), TV, radio, corporate sponsorships, ticket sales.... and on and on. And expenses are tremendously varied, and depend so much on individual factors... arena deals, tv deals, parking deals, existing debt that might have been inherited with the business.... etc., etc., etc....

Do you really not understand this? Damn CD nailed you to a wall and you still won't shut up. The only thing keeping me from putting you on ignore is that I'm too lazy... but we'll see if your continued belligerance + ignorance finally gives me the motivation.

 

[RookieOfTheDay]

That's funny. So you consider the past when it's convenient, and ignore it when it doesn't fit your agenda. You already said in this same exact thread the past doesn't matter. In fact you said, "What are you, Grant Napear 2.0? Not a single thing you mentioned there has **** to do with NOW." If we're only talking about "NOW", then why would anything having to do with the team before 2007 matter?

You know, maybe if your reading comprehension was a little better, you'd see how much your own posts contradict eachother.

A, I don't have any "agenda". B, you're making a common mistake by assuming that all things apply to all things equally. Saying the past isn't relevant in scenario x doesn't mean it might not be in scenario y. Stop viewing things so narrowly. The world isn't that black and white. Different things apply to different circumstances.

 

[RookieOfTheDay]

Wait, are you joking? Can't tell. Do you know the difference between REVENUE and PROFIT? Kinda wondering how old you are now... it's getting weird.

Do you know what a red herring is? Didn’t think so.

Each franchise is a dynamic business, with multiple sources of revenue, depending on many factors, probably some of which you and I have never even heard of. There's merchandising (worldwide), TV, radio, corporate sponsorships, ticket sales.... and on and on. And expenses are tremendously varied, and depend so much on individual factors... arena deals, tv deals, parking deals, existing debt that might have been inherited with the business.... etc., etc., etc....

Thanks, Capt. Obvious.

Do you really not understand this? Damn CD nailed you to a wall and you still won't shut up. The only thing keeping me from putting you on ignore is that I'm too lazy... but we'll see if your continued belligerance + ignorance finally gives me the motivation.

LMAO. He responded to an argument that didn’t even involve him and posted info I had ASKED FOR. Christ on a bike! Oh and please do put me on in ignore. Trust me, it’s no skin of off of my hide.

 

[The Hammer]

Do you know what a red herring is? Didn’t think so.



Thanks, Capt. Obvious.



LMAO. He responded to an argument that didn’t even involve him and posted info I had ASKED FOR. Christ on a bike! Oh and please do put me on in ignore. Trust me, it’s no skin of off of my hide.

Thanks. For the motivation.

 

[rainmaker]

A, I don't have any "agenda". B, you're making a common mistake by assuming that all things apply to all things equally. Saying the past isn't relevant in scenario x doesn't mean it might not be in scenario y. Stop viewing things so narrowly. The world isn't that black and white. Different things apply to different circumstances.

Stop viewing things narrowly? Dude, you're the one who's prancing around telling everyone how stupid they are for considering the past. You're the one who only wants to talk about the here and now, and that looking in the past is a waste of time. Then you attack me for viewing things narrowly?

Do you even realize how stupid you sound right now? No s*** the world isn't back and white. We've all been talking about all the variables which have lead to the point we are at, and have looked at the situation as a whole. Yet you keep acting like this is solely the Maloofs fault, and highjack one thread after another to make that point, yet you're telling me the world isn't black and white?

Don't even bother responding until you decide to make some damn sense.

 

[Section 101]

If that guy is the real Dave it's actually pretty funny because we know each other fairly well in real life, although we haven't spoken in years. It would just go to prove that people who get along well in real life can easily clash on the internet if they didn't know who each other was. It's one of the things I don't like about the internet actually. People think they know people just from things they say in posts but they really don't.

yes that is him

 

[RookieOfTheDay]

Stop viewing things narrowly? Dude, you're the one who's prancing around telling everyone how stupid they are for considering the past. You're the one who only wants to talk about the here and now, and that looking in the past is a waste of time. Then you attack me for viewing things narrowly?

In terms of the arena failures, yes, I’ve said it’s not the answer to blame the past. It’s not relevant to whether Kevin Johnson can get an arena built or not because he wasn’t involved in any past efforts. You can certainly say...well, Sacramento failed in the past so it will always fail, but I think that’s a defeatist mentality and it’s ironic that some of the same folks who think that way are also accusing KJ of throwing in the towel.

Do you even realize how stupid you sound right now?

I don’t care how stupid I sound to you, or anyone else here. The problem is with you...not me.

the world isn't back and white. We've all been talking about all the variables which have lead to the point we are at, and have looked at the situation as a whole. Yet you keep acting like this is solely the Maloofs fault,

There you go again with the claim that I said it was all the Maloofs fault. I’ve said no such thing, ever. That you even would think I had only proves that you haven’t read or haven’t understood my posts.

Don't even bother responding until you decide to make some damn sense.

I always make sense. Whether anyone with sense is around to see it...that’s another story.

 

[ParniValjak]

The past failures regarding the new arena has ALWAYS been about the funding. That has ALWAYS been the #1 issue in all of this! Its no different today regardless of who is running the show in City of Sacramento. KJ's efforts on trying to get something done with the arena issue are much appreciated but he still faces the same issues that those before him did. Funding! His job is actually even more difficult because of the deteriorated state of the economy these days.

So YES the past DOES matter because the same issues that prevented things from happening in the past are still here and are made even more apparent considering the current economy. So despite all of his well intended efforts and despite his will and determination to get things done, he is still facing the same challenges as those in the past. Maybe even greater challenges.

 

[RookieOfTheDay]

Oops. I forgot you need a link. That way it's not just me advancing my cause by making loud and smartass comments.

http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/sports/Clippers-Keep-Turning-Losses-Into-Profits.html

Just what is that cause, to prove that L.A. is a viable market for The Kings? I'm sure the Maloofs will appreciate your help.

 

[RookieOfTheDay]

The past failures regarding the new arena has ALWAYS been about the funding. That has ALWAYS been the #1 issue in all of this! Its no different today regardless of who is running the show in City of Sacramento. KJ's efforts on trying to get something done with the arena issue are much appreciated but he still faces the same issues that those before him did. Funding! His job is actually even more difficult because of the deteriorated state of the economy these days.

So YES the past DOES matter because the same issues that prevented things from happening in the past are still here and are made even more apparent considering the current economy. So despite all of his well intended efforts and despite his will and determination to get things done, he is still facing the same challenges as those in the past. Maybe even greater challenges.

Of course, but that doesn't mean he can't succeed where others have failed. And at the very least, if the Maloofs were really committed to keeping the team in Sacramento, wouldn't they at least give KJ a chance?

 

[origkds]

Cool, I just figured out that I can put selected members on an ignore list so I don't have to view their posts.

 

[est.1999]

Of course, but that doesn't mean he can't succeed where others have failed. And at the very least, if the Maloofs were really committed to keeping the team in Sacramento, wouldn't they at least give KJ a chance?

What makes them not committed to staying in Sacramento? They've been there for 12 years and they've had to deal with one of the worst run cities in America. Look at Anaheim, a city that is supposedly bleeding money every day(something like 40K a day iirc), but when the oppurtunity came to grab a professional basketball team they jumped on the opportunity and voted unanimously 5-0 in favor of funding $75 million to help with relocation fees and what not. Why can't Sacramento see the importance of a professional sports franchise and try to make something happen instead of sitting on the hands for so many years? If I was the maloofs, I would have left a LONG time ago.

 

[RookieOfTheDay]

What makes them not committed to staying in Sacramento?

The fact that they're actively negotiating a deal with Anaheim instead of cooperating with Kevin Johnson and ICON/Taylor? That doesn't seem consistent with wanting to stay in Sacramento.

a city that is supposedly bleeding money every day(something like 40K a day iirc), but when the oppurtunity came to grab a professional basketball team they jumped on the opportunity and voted unanimously 5-0 in favor of funding $75 million to help with relocation fees and what not.

No doubt Sacramento could learn a few things from Anaheim about getting things done. Let's not forget though that The Maloofs don't owe Anaheim 77 million, haven't made demands to control the arena, etc.

Why can't Sacramento see the importance of a professional sports franchise and try to make something happen instead of sitting on the hands for so many years? If I was the maloofs, I would have left a LONG time ago.

Sacramento is just the name of the region. It really comes down to what the powers that be at any given time see/think. In the past, they haven't seen the importance. Kevin Johnson clearly does see the importance but he can't do much about it when the Maloofs have no interesting in cooperating or negotiating with him.

 

[Section 101]

The past failures regarding the new arena has ALWAYS been about the funding. That has ALWAYS been the #1 issue in all of this! Its no different today regardless of who is running the show in City of Sacramento. KJ's efforts on trying to get something done with the arena issue are much appreciated but he still faces the same issues that those before him did. Funding! His job is actually even more difficult because of the deteriorated state of the economy these days.

So YES the past DOES matter because the same issues that prevented things from happening in the past are still here and are made even more apparent considering the current economy. So despite all of his well intended efforts and despite his will and determination to get things done, he is still facing the same challenges as those in the past. Maybe even greater challenges.

I think the funding for a $350-400 million stadium has been there. I think the city has gone about the financing wrong and I think the Maloofs wanted something more glamorous than what is needed. With the city selling bonds and the payments by a combination of lease payments and other non sales taxes it would be possible. In the past the city council said they would pay up to $175 million. But the maloofs walked away. That was a starting point, but the city went about it wrong. If the maloofs just had to pay the other part as the lease payments and not upfront we would have an arena right now.

This is why people are upset. The ICON/Taylor teams has built arenas. They know what they are doing. The funding is possible with an anchor tenant.

 

[ParniValjak]

Maloofs have hung around for over a decade when they would have been forgiven for leaving. Even if the ICON/Taylor come up with a legitimate plan and if by miracle there is funding to get moving on the new arena straight away, its still 2-3 years for it to actually get completed and ready to tenant a team. In current financial situation, in 2-3 years its not too far fetched the say that the Kings could very well cease to exist.

The financial contstraints of Arco are REAL and there is no way that a team can remain there for 2-3 years without getting further into debt. Ideally, Sacramento comes up with a plan to build the arena starting NOW, in this case, there is real chance that the Kings might have to play somewhere else in the interim.

Like I said, for the past 2 years the Kings have had to keep the player payroll to the bare minimum, have the lowest paid head coach and assistant coaches in the league as well as cut costs by letting a lot of people go. Their operations are running a bare minimum and they are barely making a profit. How long do you think that can go on? With the rising cost and decreasing revenue, if the Kings remain at Arco, there is a very real chance of contraction in the 2-3 years.

 

[Livinthedream]

Sacramento is just the name of the region. It really comes down to what the powers that be at any given time see/think. In the past, they haven't seen the importance. Kevin Johnson clearly does see the importance but he can't do much about it when the Maloofs have no interesting in cooperating or negotiating with him.

Agreed. I think the Maloofs had checked out before KJ even came into play. Regardless of what they said in public. Sacramento does not have a strong mayor, so the city council members that are in place matter as well. I think that some people either fail to remember or don't understand that maybe 80% of the region has no ability to affect who those city council members are.

 

[Section 101]

Maloofs have hung around for over a decade when they would have been forgiven for leaving. Even if the ICON/Taylor come up with a legitimate plan and if by miracle there is funding to get moving on the new arena straight away, its still 2-3 years for it to actually get completed and ready to tenant a team. In current financial situation, in 2-3 years its not too far fetched the say that the Kings could very well cease to exist.

The financial contstraints of Arco are REAL and there is no way that a team can remain there for 2-3 years without getting further into debt. Ideally, Sacramento comes up with a plan to build the arena starting NOW, in this case, there is real chance that the Kings might have to play somewhere else in the interim.

Like I said, for the past 2 years the Kings have had to keep the player payroll to the bare minimum, have the lowest paid head coach and assistant coaches in the league as well as cut costs by letting a lot of people go. Their operations are running a bare minimum and they are barely making a profit. How long do you think that can go on? With the rising cost and decreasing revenue, if the Kings remain at Arco, there is a very real chance of contraction in the 2-3 years.

Where are you getting this information? They have made money the past few years. There is a greater risk losing the team going to Anaheim and taking on more debt than staying here. What rising cost? What decreasing revenue? They have hit the low point already.

 

[RookieOfTheDay]

Maloofs have hung around for over a decade when they would have been forgiven for leaving. Even if the ICON/Taylor come up with a legitimate plan and if by miracle there is funding to get moving on the new arena straight away, its still 2-3 years for it to actually get completed and ready to tenant a team. In current financial situation, in 2-3 years its not too far fetched the say that the Kings could very well cease to exist.

The financial contstraints of Arco are REAL and there is no way that a team can remain there for 2-3 years without getting further into debt. Ideally, Sacramento comes up with a plan to build the arena starting NOW, in this case, there is real chance that the Kings might have to play somewhere else in the interim.

Like I said, for the past 2 years the Kings have had to keep the player payroll to the bare minimum, have the lowest paid head coach and assistant coaches in the league as well as cut costs by letting a lot of people go. Their operations are running a bare minimum and they are barely making a profit. How long do you think that can go on? With the rising cost and decreasing revenue, if the Kings remain at Arco, there is a very real chance of contraction in the 2-3 years.

Puhlease. That isn't even remotely accurate. They made profits for years at arco when they actually put a good product out there and even in some years when they didn't. And from what I've read, they're STILL making a profit despite their league low payroll and corresponding league low attendance. With the young upcoming team they have they could certainly turn profits over the next few seasons while the arena was being built.

 

[ParniValjak]

Puhlease. That isn't even remotely accurate. They made profits for years at arco when they actually put a good product out there and even in some years when they didn't. And from what I've read, they're STILL making a profit despite their league low payroll and corresponding league low attendance. With the young upcoming team they have they could certainly turn profits over the next few seasons while the arena was being built.

That all well and good but you are ignoring one fact, the every day cost of running a franchise is increasing from year to year. So them making a profit 5 years ago has no significance on their current ability to turn a profit.

The NBA has warned that there is a real threat of contraction in the next 2-3 years if things don't change. Don't for a moment think that Kings are safe because they would be one of the most vulnerable franchises. If not THE most vulnerable!