Have you lost faith in Westphal? interest in the Sacramento Kings?

#1
Last year, I thought his rotations were very erratic, and although it confused me and even frustrated me, I gave him a pass. It was his first year with what most people thought was the worst team in the NBA. I didn't really mind losing because of how all the guys seemed to be getting better, Tyreke's ROY campaign, and we fought every game. Obviously mid-season that flame died out, but hey it's a young team, he's still trying to figure his guys out, and we needed a top 5 pick.

This year, any positives from last year are completely gone. I see no positives. The team is in shambles. We have no identity, we have no consistency, we have no nothing.

There's a lot more I'd like to say but I literally just lost interest in this post. In short, yes.
What is everyones' opinion on the matter?
 

kingsboi

Hall of Famer
#2
I haven't fully 100% lost faith in Westphal, just yet. It is his fault but the players are just as much accountable. It goes both ways really. As for the Kings, well I'm never going to lose interest in them. What I can say is though I wouldn't be upset or in a rush to watch their games this season as I was in previous years. I remember I wouldn't miss a Kings game for anything, I mean anything. If I did happen to miss it, I'd be sure to atleast try to watch a replay or watch some highlights, when I didn't have league pass.
 
#3
I haven't lost faith in Westphal at all despite the fact that I read at lot of the posts here. No way have I lost faith or interest in the Kings. It may or may not be true but Westphal may be the best coach in the NBA for this team now. It admit it is tough watching these burnouts but then again that's what makes the victories and successes so sweet. Bring 'em on! Beat the Lakers!!
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#4
Let my start by saying I wouldn't want his job. Make no mistake about it. What he's trying to do is difficult. There's a reason why coaches love veteran players and hate rookies. So he has a tough job, and to be honest its difficult to judge just how good or bad of a job he's doing. There's certainly been smoke curling up from the locker room of late, and its hard to say whether its from a weenie roast or the beginning of a meltdown. I've been pretty hard on him of late. And I'm not trying to diminish the problems I have with him and his revolving door rotations. But at the same time, I do understand his situation.

He was expected to improve on the record from last year, and at the same time, continue with the development of the young players. If it doesn't look like he can accomplish one of those things, his head could roll. One could assume that those two things would go hand in hand, but not necessarily so. So he's under a certain amount of pressure. But then, no one forced him to take the job. He applied for it, and while he's not being paid as much as some head coaches, he certainly not going to starve.

So I guess I'm not totally happy with the job he's doing, but I'm also not ready to fire him. There may be a method to his maddness, and he deserves the time to prove it. Cousins seemed to respond to his methods, and so did Greene. So maybe he knows more than I do. Maybe he should just bench everyone that doesn't play the way they're suspossed to. Of course on some nights that might be half the team.
 
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Entity

Hall of Famer
#6
I haven't lost interest. I am awaiting for this team to try and find its true identity. Right now we are just a bunch of talented pieces thrown together on the court. Now is Westphal doing what it takes to bring that Identity to full circle and have each of those talented pieces playing their role night in and night out and doing what it takes to play winning basketball?? I am not sure. If the jury was out right now, I think the verdict would be no. All the tools are there. If you give carpenter tools to a lawyer that doesn't know how to use them. No matter how smart he is not sure he could get the job done.
 

SacTownKid

Hall of Famer
#8
Yes on both accounts unfortunately. I was excited for 3 reasons coming into the year: Evans, Cousins, and Whiteside.

Evans doesn't look like he did last year but it doesn't look like the offensive gameplan is working for him either. Cousins goes multiple plays at a time without even touching the ball and when he does finally touch it he's almost panicked knowing that a lot is being asked of him and he's expected to produce. Whiteside doesn't really help much being in a suit. Hate seeing blow out after blow out and this guy is still in a damn suit! WTF!
 
#9
No, Westphal has not changed. The team is not as good as last year. Laugh if you will but Nocioni, Udoka, Spanish Chocolate, Brockman and even Hawes could play ball. Tell me you don't think any of the previous mentioned players could not help the current Kings. Sergio Rodriguez, Udoka and Brockman started the come back in Chi-town. Noc was a chucker but he would be one of the best shooters on this team. Tell me you would not like to see Sergio as a backup PG or Udoka's steady veteran defense on this years Kings?

This years team has the POTENTIAL to be better than that team. But it has not happened yet. I hope they realize that potential.

I still love the Kings, watch every game I can and I have just one final thing to say:





















Beat LA!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
#10
If people here knew me from other forums before I joined this one, they would know I'm usually the last person to call for the coach's head, and I'm all for giving them time to work things out. BUT, let me put it this way:

A centers job is to defend the paint, rebound, make post moves, etc. If he doesn't do any of these things over an extended period of time he will get benched and eventually traded or waived, if he doesn't get back to his old form.

A PG's job is to run the offense, pass to his teammates, make shots, play defense, etc. If he averages 3 ppg on 20% shooting with 1.5 apg and gets torched on defense, he will too get benched, and then waived or traded.

A coach's job is to make the team look like a team, teach his players exactly what they need to do, and make sure they have enough knowledge and confidence to be able to execute well. If that doesn't happen over a short period of time, he should be given more time. Some players or teams take longer than others to learn. But if he can't manage to do it over a long period of time and things just consistently get worse, then he is not doing his job properly and should be replaced. Westphal has been doing a crappy job since January 2010. Our record since then is 16-55, and regardless of the record, we just look like crap.

If I had to pinpoint one game where things took a turn for the worse, it would be the double-overtime Lakers game in late December of last year. Tyreke, IIRC, was on the bench because he got hurt on a play, and we were torching the Lakers, playing at a fast pace and taking a 7-point lead in overtime. Westphal, instead of letting these guys keep doing what they're doing, put Tyreke back in, who slowed down the game to almost a halt and abandoned the team game, which shifted the momentum and allowed the Lakers to come back and force a second overtime, and eventually win.

PW sent a clear message to the guys that night that he doesn't trust them as a team, and that Tyreke is the only one who is allowed to carry the team. After that things started going south. Martin returned and was traded because he was not the "right fit" next to Tyreke, and the fun and exciting team we had seen until then had gradually dissolved. IMO, Westphal not only hurt the team, but he hurt Tyreke as well. Instead of helping him develop and become a superstar, he gave him an illusion that he is already there. This created three negative developments:

1. Tyreke suddenly started feeling the immense pressure of having to carry a team at the young age of 20.
2. Being already labeled as a superstar, the expectations from Tyreke was to only play to his strengths and not work on his weaknesses, hurting his development.
3. Guys on the team started resenting Tyreke for taking over the team as a rookie with only a few months of NBA experience under his belt. There was separation between Tyreke and the rest of the guys, even though on the surface they tried to make it look as if they are all buddy-buddies.

If there was a way to ask the players in private and off the record, I have a strong feeling that a lot of them would cite that Lakers game and its aftermath as the event that broke this team's spirit. PW doesn't seem to acknowledge these problems and is not making an attempt to fix them. Until these problems are fixed, I don't see this team getting up and coming together again. They might win a game here or there, or even have a stretch of several good games, but it will just keep falling apart because the spirit is gone from this team.
 
#12
For the people that cared and had faith before Tyreke's rookie season, I don't see why we would give up now. No matter what, we still have young talent on our team and has much better potential than a few years ago. Losing interest in a team because of a bad stretch is what bandwagon fans do. Thats just the truth.
 
#14
No single person is to blame.
There is not an ounce of cohesiveness out there. Most of all, there not playing inspired basketball. I'm absolutely convinced we need a vocal veteran leader out there to hold people accountable. That is the only way we'll be competitive. Either that, or we just wait it out until this team grows up. Unfortunately for us, from the way things are looking, we don't have time to watch this team grow up and be successful.
 
#15
I got a lot of ignorant hate for saying this situation could happen with a Tyreke lead team, and I'm not posting this to rub people's faces in it because I want to see good basketball and success for the Kings. I am saying this now because the signs were always there. The team is just visually boring to watch, so much so that their last victory wasn't even all that enjoyable and I don't suspect their next victory(may fate grant it happens) will be all that entertaining itself.

So, it's not just the losing, its the actual product out on the floor. Some major change needs to happen and I don't like hearing management continue to sound conservative with their approach.
 
#16
Even though the Kings have been terrible the last 4-5 seasons including this season so far; have played musical chairs with the head coaching position; the inability to sign one or two key/productive veterans; PWs questionable rotations; the ownership's rumored financial issues (that may affect the team's development time-line); the failure to land a new arena up to this point I can say I haven't really lost interest in the team. When the season ends I start counting the months left for opening night to arrive. In relation to PW its not entirely all his fault for the Kings' weak performance. The players should also be blamed for their constant missed assignments, missed FTs, 3 point attempt bricks, lazy D, etc. I hate using the excuse that they're young and inexperienced but the fact is they are inexperienced. This whole thing is going to take some time. I have faith that they will turn the corner this season and start winning some games.
 
#17
I still have faith in Westphal and the Kings. Westphal's crazy experiments seem to be coming to a stop these past couple of games. Seems like he's worked out what he wants with JT, Landry, Dalembert, and maybe Cousins. It may take a bit more time for the coaching staff to find out who's going to play at what position, but i think were starting to see at least a little bit of consistency. Also with this recent fingerpointing at each other, even if they might sound negative, at least they were worthy of attention. I think the team's starting to head in the right direction; problems are starting to be addressed and i think the players are going to confront them in a positive note, especially since they are all so young and want to do good and learn.

edit: however i wont be surprised if WP tries something crazy against the Lakers.
 
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#18
I lost Faith in WP a while back. I don't think he could coach his way out of a web paper bag with the dream team at his back. I haven't lost interest in the Kings though if they trade away pieces that are obviously future core for someone that isn't a huge upgrade before realizing it might actually be a coaching problem I may go back to just reading recaps and watching highlights till I am back in the US and not getting up at 3 in the morning to watch a game.

As far at keeping people accountable yes a vet leader can do that on the floor but a coach can also.
 
#19
Lost interest in PW, but not the Kings.. Ok maybe a little bit since there is all this talk about leaving town all the time but I still watch all the games.
 
#20
Each year we underachieve and miss out on chance at being winners, it gets harder and harder to defend or even stand by with the kings, yet 5 or so playoff less years I still follow the kings. I havent lost faith in our team. the coach may fail but we can change that what we cannot change is that we are kingsfans :D

I have been going through a lot lately as a first year medstudent, books are eating away at my other freetime and I barely follow the kings or even log on here anymore, but rest assured that I bleed purple through and through,

this team has been disappointing, yes but nothing is ever easy, the benefits of these hardships will come and hopefully that time comes sooner. The lineage of " sacramento kings" may have fallen off their throne, but soon the kings, OUR sacramento kings will be back to dominance :D Faith in the kings, Thats what I will always have
 
#21
I haven't lost interest in Sacramento, I love this team, but something needs to be changed ASAP. Like I already said, if coach can't get the best out of them, he needs to be changed. If they continue to play without appropriate effort under new coach, the should be fined/traded, etc. Simple as that...
 
#22
No and no. I don't think Westphal is the only problem and I think we would have to lose about 50 games in a row for him to be fired. Everything I've read indicates that Petrie's support for Westphal is still strong. And I have faith that this team will start playing better eventually, but I might not watch them much until they get a couple of wins. The last few games have been depressing.
 
#23
I might not watch them much until they get a couple of wins. The last few games have been depressing.
That's you definition of a fan? To watch your team only when it's good?? :)

What is your advice for the rest of us who are watching every game? How should we make peace with crappy playing?
 
#24
Haven't lost faith in PW.

Interest in the Kings (checking stats, reading articles, # of visits to the forums, sticking with games until the bitter end) is at an all-time low.
 
#25
I have lost faith in WP but have not given up hope on our young core. As far as the players being erratic, what do you wan't from a bunch of young players? That was to be expected. But for the coach, I expected WP to have that under controlled. Just like the OP mentioned, he got his free ticket last year and I too gave him that year to experiment.

My advice for those that are watching every game, if you think it's worth it then continue. You shouldn't make peace with crappy games. You have to let your anger out otherwise you explode. Like: "^%$ I'm pissed." then move on.
 
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Kingster

Hall of Famer
#26
No and NO.

Westphal has mish-mash of talented but very unrefined youngsters and vets with major holes in their game. He's trying to make a silk purse.

If you get rid of Westphal you're going to have Kenny Natt all over again. The new guy is going to have no power, the players would view it as acknowledgement that this season is done and they would play accordingly. Remember that joyful Natt stint? It would be a disaster for morale, for attracting future free agents, for the reputation of the Kings around the league.
 
#27
No and NO.

Westphal has mish-mash of talented but very unrefined youngsters and vets with major holes in their game. He's trying to make a silk purse.

If you get rid of Westphal you're going to have Kenny Natt all over again. The new guy is going to have no power, the players would view it as acknowledgement that this season is done and they would play accordingly. Remember that joyful Natt stint? It would be a disaster for morale, for attracting future free agents, for the reputation of the Kings around the league.
No and no. The young guys on this team seem to be idiots, so I don't blame the coach as much as I otherwise would.

Casspi - Great work ethic, kind of a high maintainence diva

Greene - The DNP's are a total mystery and I don't have enough information to fully blame the player or the coach. I'm satisfied where he's at right now, so I see no need to harp on PW about it.

Tyreke - Seems like a bit of a sociopath, or at a minimum passive aggressive. I can imagine it being hard to get through to him. He also might just be shy. Getting and maintaining a healthy dynamic with this guy is paramount to the King's success. A lot of coaches would be happy to have the opportunity to try to get through to him.

Cousins - Likable, but OMG. Can you imagine the migraines he gives you. Give him Tim Duncan's personality and you have yourself a (boring)hall of famer.

JT - This is where I start to question the coach. The last two first halves have been JT at his best. If PW can somehow get that out of him consistently, we'd all be thrilled. The kid is flawed, but I see absolutely no reason for the lack of minutes early on or the stupid experiment at the 3.

Landry and Dalembert - I only bring these guys up as a comparison. Landry is the consummate professional. Every single team in the league would love to have him(off the bench). I know Dalembert's had coach problems in the past, but he too seems easy to coach on the Kings. Is it a surprise that the over 25 guys are easy to coach?

As for the second part.. no, but maybe it's because we're such a cluster@#$% we're kind of interesting. I'm probably a 10 game losing streak away from ignoring them for a while.
 
#28
Havent lost interest just wish these guys would play with some heart and desire, they are too young to be head hanging already. I was one of the guilty ones who actually believed this season would show tremendous growth with the group, I also thought key teams n the west would fall off. I was wrong on both accounts, I will def be tuning in tonight at 1030 to see what our guys can do against a hungry Lakers team on a 4 game slide.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#29
No and NO.

Westphal has mish-mash of talented but very unrefined youngsters and vets with major holes in their game. He's trying to make a silk purse.

If you get rid of Westphal you're going to have Kenny Natt all over again. The new guy is going to have no power, the players would view it as acknowledgement that this season is done and they would play accordingly. Remember that joyful Natt stint? It would be a disaster for morale, for attracting future free agents, for the reputation of the Kings around the league.
A Sow's ear is quite tasty by the way if prepared properly...
 
#30
I haven't entirely lost faith in PW, although I'm getting close. I think the individual players have tons of potential.

That said, I am losing faith in the franchise at the management level. Between the recent economy, ten years of accomplishing nothing WRT the arena, coaching problems, the lost and broken look to the team, and the probability of an impending lockout, I'm seriously doubting that this can end well. Even at the MS&E level, decisions have left me scratching my head and wondering what they could possibly be thinking. The dance team seems to be the only corner of the organization where nothing's been horribly screwed up yet.

So while I wouldn't say that I've lost interest yet, I'm definitely feeling some emotional detachment, and am no longer making myself endure the punishment of watching all the games. I guess most of what I've lost is hope.