NBA All Defensive team... Kobe?

[Superman]

Not sure if you're replying to my post or not. But if so, nowhere did I say that Kobe was a bad defender. I'm still referring to the thread topic, as in, I don't think Kobe deserves to be on the All-defensive team when players like Battier and even his own teammate Artest are left off it.

Artest and Battier both play small forward, so they aren't Kobe's competition.

This is the kind of award that is sort of predetermined, based primarily off of a player's name recognition and reputation in the NBA. It's not conclusive by any means, so getting worked up over it is kind of pointless. There are probably better defenders at the position than Kobe, and we all know that, regardless of the All NBA awards. It's totally moot.

I'm upset because I'm put in a position where I have to defend Kobe against people who state/insinuate that he's NOT a good defender 'because Phil Jackson hid him on Rondo'. The fact of the matter is that Rondo's penetration is the key to Boston's offense; it's no longer Paul Pierce or Kevin Garnett or anyone else that is the focal point. It's all about Rondo getting into the lane, so based on the fact that Artest/Pierce is the best matchup for the Lakers (and is part of the reason the Lakers wanted Artest in the first place) and that Derek Fisher can't stay in front of Rondo, it makes sense for Kobe to be the man there.

And while he isn't playing up in your grill defense on Rondo, Rondo's offense hasn't been all that effective when Kobe is in front of him. And that shuts down the entire Boston attack.

 

[Peter_Gibbons]

I agree that Kobe is an overrated defender and should NOT be on the All Defensive team (at least not the first team), but playing off Rondo is exactly how you're supposed to guard Rondo. I am by no means defending Kobe here, but until Rondo proves that he can make an 18 foot jumper then give him all the space he wants and take away the drive. That's being smart.

And yes it's smart for Jackson to put Kobe on Rondo if he wants to save Kobe's energy for offense. I think Artest is the better defender so he goes on Pierce, and like Superman said if Kobe was put on Allen then he'd be running through a bunch of screens every time down the court, and that'd wear anybody out pretty quickly

I think you guys got the wrong idea. I agree completely that sagging off Rondo, Westbrook is the correct way to play D. That is the same way teams played Tyreke and MJ before he got a jumpshot. Textbook.


BUT... my point is that guys are giving kobe too much credit for "stopping" Westbrook or even Rondo. As good as they are, they are still a limited offensive player at this point. It doesn't require an all defensive first team guy to slow down Westbrook/Rondo if you go in with the game plan of sagging off to avoid getting blown by and you have 2 of the longest C & PF in the league to stack up behind you. All you need is a guy with a size advantage, athletic and has basic defensive instincts to force them to where you want them to get trapped. Trevor Ariza could've done the same job on Rondo with this game plan and Trevor is by no means an all defensive team guy. Thats my point.

The other part is that if Rondo/Westbrook had a jumpshot, kobe would have to play them much tighter the entire game. kobe no longer has the speed to stay in front of these type of guards. Thats what I mean by "the only way kobe can stay with young quick guys like Rondo and Westbrook is if he sags off big like he's doing"... only because they don't have a jumpshot and are not complete in their offensive skills which allows kobe to sag off them.

For kobe's sake, its better for him to guard Rondo then Ray Allen. Yes that I agree and its something I thought they should do before the series started. The media as usual though, gives kobe credit for defending the tougher player of the 2 when in reality thats just the match up that makes sense.

What the Cs should do still is to set picks on kobe and fish all game. Believe it or not, I told this to my brother after gm 1 and thats exactly what they did in gm 2 to win the game. Better yet, set the picks with Bynum's man as drew is not in the mood to make quick switchs right now. Like Doc Rivers said himself, they aren't going to beat the lakers by throwing the ball to one guy in the post on one side while everyone else watches. They need to keep the movement and force the lakers to scramble and rotate.

 

[SacKings7]

Artest and Battier both play small forward, so they aren't Kobe's competition.

I understand that. I think I mentioned this earlier in the thread but I don't think the All-defensive team is position specific is it? Like the All-Rookie team had Evans, Curry and Jennings on there and they're all guards. Back in 2008 the first team was Garnett, Kobe, Bowen, Duncan and Camby. Bowen or Kobe aren't PG's, and Garnett, Duncan or Camby aren't SF's. Actually since Bowen started at SF for the Spurs, the only actual guard on that team was Kobe.

And just for reference, in 2007 the first team was Duncan, Bowen, Kobe, Camby and Raja Bell. Closer, but Bell is far from a PG.

 

[Peter_Gibbons]

Artest and Battier both play small forward, so they aren't Kobe's competition.

This is the kind of award that is sort of predetermined, based primarily off of a player's name recognition and reputation in the NBA. It's not conclusive by any means, so getting worked up over it is kind of pointless. There are probably better defenders at the position than Kobe, and we all know that, regardless of the All NBA awards. It's totally moot.

I'm upset because I'm put in a position where I have to defend Kobe against people who state/insinuate that he's NOT a good defender 'because Phil Jackson hid him on Rondo'. The fact of the matter is that Rondo's penetration is the key to Boston's offense; it's no longer Paul Pierce or Kevin Garnett or anyone else that is the focal point. It's all about Rondo getting into the lane, so based on the fact that Artest/Pierce is the best matchup for the Lakers (and is part of the reason the Lakers wanted Artest in the first place) and that Derek Fisher can't stay in front of Rondo, it makes sense for Kobe to be the man there.

And while he isn't playing up in your grill defense on Rondo, Rondo's offense hasn't been all that effective when Kobe is in front of him. And that shuts down the entire Boston attack.

I elaborated on my position above. As an aside, its perfectly OK to let it go once in a while and not defend kobe. I know you are trying to be unbiased, but come on now... this is the lakers we are talking about.

 

[Superman]

My objectivity at times like these makes my Laker bias that much more relevant when the time comes.

 

[Superman]

I understand that. I think I mentioned this earlier in the thread but I don't think the All-defensive team is position specific is it? Like the All-Rookie team had Evans, Curry and Jennings on there and they're all guards. Back in 2008 the first team was Garnett, Kobe, Bowen, Duncan and Camby. Bowen or Kobe aren't PG's, and Garnett, Duncan or Camby aren't SF's. Actually since Bowen started at SF for the Spurs, the only actual guard on that team was Kobe.

And just for reference, in 2007 the first team was Duncan, Bowen, Kobe, Camby and Raja Bell. Closer, but Bell is far from a PG.

I think it's like the All Star team: GGFFC, without respect for which guard or forward position the player actually plays. I could be wrong, as I haven't bothered to do any type of research. But I mentioned this a month ago:

Another thing, for these awards and for the All Star game, they need to stop lumping guards together and forwards together. It's dumb. They need to go point guard, swing man (which encompasses all the players whose game is interchangeable, like LeBron, Kobe, Pierce, Carmelo; they all play the same position, I don't care if they are listed at guard or forward), and big man (I don't care if Duncan is listed at forward or center, same for Garnett, and Amare Stoudemire, and Chris Bosh, and Dwight Howard; they play the same position).

 

[IrKing]

Didn't see this posted anywhere, but the NBA came out with the all defensive team, and for the 5th year in a row, Kobe made it. Maybe I'm just missing something, but I really don't get why he makes it every year.

To be fair, I will admit that when he wants to, and when he puts his mind to it, Kobe can be a lock-down defender. But shouldn't this honor be given to the jordan 11 5 players who gut it out on the defensive end every possession?

During the first round, all the buzz in LA was that the Lakers had no answer for the speedy Russel Westbrook, and Fisher's old legs couldn't keep up with him. If you have an all-NBA defender in your backcourt, wouldn't he be the logical choice to try to stop him? No, the Lakers stuck with Fisher/Brown/Farmar, and they got burned.

Not to mention that the Thunder's best scorer, Durant, was being hassled by Artest the entire series. What was Kobe doing? Locking down Thabo friggin Sepholosha. Big deal.

If Kobe's as great a defender as he's made out to be, why isn't he guarding the best player on the court every night? Why didn't he guard Durant or jordan 1 Westbrook? Why isn't he guarding Deron Williams? Any average defender can look like a great defender when they're guarding the team's #3 or #4 option every night.

Kobe isn't even the best defender on his own team's starting line-up, much less top 5 in the NBA.

/End rant.

Yea I agree. Too much *shine* is put on Kobe.