Why spencer hawes is on the bench...

S

s2kinteg916

Prospect
#1
#1
Its sad to see a another lost yesterday which i think we could of won.

We all know its hard playing on the road let alone a team that has a athletic frontcourt like the hawks.

Honestly the hawks were soaring all over the place when it came to offensive rebounds. For a whole third quarter i really think they had wings.

Im reading a bunch of complaints regarding the changing lineups but its clear that paul westfall does not think spencer in the starting lineup would give us the best team. Sure i admit jason thompson is clumsy as no other and sometimes has a little to much passion if you ask me but in terms of athletic ability / heart he has it over hawes.

Not to have any blame for anyone on the squad but if anyone was watching the end of third quarter before we fell in a hole kings were on a run and down only by 6 points and i believe casspi passes to spencer hawes.

Instead of the dunk or drawing the foul as what most good players do in the league he gets an offensive foul or misses it. He than turns around and glances to the official and cries. After that he or we get burnt for 4 points in the "paint" and the momentum went downhill after that. With jason thompson he would of fouled them out of frustration intead.

We werent the same after that and i can only imagine how the momentum would of shifted if we had the bucket on that play making it a 4 point game.

It sucks to lose but yesterday game was very productive. By having hawes on the bench it opened up the paint and the lanes. Anyone notice the increase in production of jason thompson without hawes? Tyreke had more room to drive. The numbers below speak for itself.

66 Points in the paint without hawes last night
http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=300120001

56 Points in the paint with hawes playing 12 minutes vs bobcats
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=300118030

With Hawes playing more minutes. 35 or so minutes
38 Points in the paint vs washington
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=300116027

With Hawes playing more minutes 36 minutes
26 Points in the pain vs 76ers
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=300115020

We are getting a bunch of threads that martin / tyreke are not fitting in but looking at our numbers the frontline seems to have that issue here.

If we are scoring 66 points in the paint we are going to win a ****load of games since our teams loves to shoot three's as well. Last night didnt hold true but we were in striking distance.

I would like to hear other feedback on my observations.
 
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nickmcclure

nickmcclure

Bench
#4
#4
You bring up a good point in that we could have used his size on the boards but to be honest I think Spencer doesn't know how to use his size. I think we should trade him. He is so far from where we need him to be from a developmental standpoint. It's like he developed backwards. Most young 7 footers come in here with raw energy. grabbing boards, dunking on people (extreme example: Dwight Howard whom I hope has an off night tonight lol) then they try to develop the skills to post up, hit hooks and work on their off hand. That's what Dwight should be doing. To Spencer's credit he has all those fine-tuned shooting skills but he lacks that rawness in the paint which is what the Kings could really use. We have enough shooters on the team, the last thing we need is a center chilling at the 3 point line out of position.
/Spencer Hawes rant
Anyways I hope he gets traded for a useful big and I wish him luck in...Memphis or wherever
 
K

KingNoy

G-League
#5
#5
I think it's a big combination of inconsistency and lack of maturity from both our frontline guys (Hawes/JT). If JT put's up double double's like he did during the beginning of the season, we'd win more games. If Hawes learns to stay within 10-15 of the hoop, we win more games.

My biggest pet peeves of the season so far are Hawe's 3pt shots and JT hanging his head in confusion and emotional distress after every call on him.
 
U

USNAVY15

G-League
#7
#7
box outs, bad goalie, lateral quickess deficiency, box outs, soft moves, mental edge, and vertical. I didn't mention upside, and perimeter game, and passing because he is more than satisfactory at those. I hate to see Brockman move past Hawes on the depth chart, but it worked to motivate hawes earlier in the year, and hopefully it will work this time around. I can't wait to see how Brockness does against dwight after getting a feel for him last time. Thompson's fouls are usually stupid, and i would be acting the same way. But, he wouldn't need to foul if he could properly time the shot block, or work ahead of time to get the proper box out.
 
'89 Kings Fan

'89 Kings Fan

Bench
#8
#8
The problem with rebuilding teams is they require a lot of patience. We have one four game win streak and we start talking about the playoffs. I hated the pick initially (I wanted Al Thorton, which probably wouldn't have been any better at this point.) but I thought I would come to Spencer's defense here.

He has gotten better offensively every year, and he if he continues to improve on this projection by the time he is 23 he will be a pretty good starter on the offensive end:

PER Net PER eFG Inside
07-08 13.4 -5.7 .465 47%
08-09 14.6 -5.0 .491 48%
09-10 16.3 -0.4 .503 53%

His problems are all on the defensive end. His first year he was an ok weak side shot blocker and rebounder. Of course we had someone named Ron Artest anchoring our defense. It seems the majority of times Spencer is pulled out of position because of our porous perimeter defense. I think once we have a lineup of Donte/Garcia/Evans on the perimeter his defense will magically appear improved.

There is no reason why Spencer with the right coaching could become an above average defender in this league. Right now I do not think we have anyone our coaching staff capable of teaching post defense since no one on our team ever improves in this area. If we could hire an actual big man coach that might benefit us more than any trade.

I think it would be a mistake at this point to give up on 21 year 7 footer. This story has been repeated constantly through the NBA where a team has given up on a young big and he finds success elsewhere. If Spencer ends up regressing like Hilton Armstrong then by all means we should get rid of him.
 
upinsmoke

upinsmoke

All-Star
#11
#11
Im as critical of Hawes as anyone but besides a blockbuster trade then I would keep a little bit of faith in Hawes. Remember Bigs and PG's take the most patience because the learning curve for those positions is so high.

Worst case he is a solid back up center.
 
Aenadin

Aenadin

Starter
#12
#12
PROJECT... remember
P
R
O
J
E
C
T

and with no one to actually spearhead this bigman project what do you expect the man to do?

with all due respect to coachie. we all hate it when hawes takes threes but if coachie the yoda wants hawes to learn to be more consistent with his shots rather than work him in the post.. then he knows more than we do i guess

too much negativity around :D
 
O

Oprostaj

Bench
#17
#17
Aenadin said:
PROJECT... remember
P
R
O
J
E
C
T

and with no one to actually spearhead this bigman project what do you expect the man to do?

with all due respect to coachie. we all hate it when hawes takes threes but if coachie the yoda wants hawes to learn to be more consistent with his shots rather than work him in the post.. then he knows more than we do i guess

too much negativity around :D
Click to expand...
This is true, and even though I didn't expect to see Olajuwon walk out there in his third year, I was at least hoping he was stronger, more aware, and actually had post moves. I don't care if he looks goofy, I just want to see progress. So far, there has been none. FFS, if he wants to shoot at least be good at it. If he could knock them down like Frye at least we wouldn't be vilifying him now. For everybody that says, "Wait... be patient" there is a process. In that process, there is growth and a visible improvement. Have you seen any of that with Hawes? I still think he can be something, but he has no excuse. Team doesn't want to coach him in the post? You have a ton of money, hire a ****ing coach yourself. I know big man take longer, but he isn't just going to *Get it* all of a sudden like a light bulb went on in his head. Progress. That's what I want to see.
 
Aenadin

Aenadin

Starter
#18
#18
if he can knock it down like frye or dirk people here would be praising him to high heavens....

if he hired his own coach it would be a slap to the face of coachie and the rest of the staff.. thats not being a smart guy thats just being a jerk.

no

it has to come from the office and coaching staff itself and apparently they forgot all about those projects. he is capable of good numbers, he's not slow, I have seen enough clips to be convinced. ITs just kind of disappointing how we all just drop him like that there is promise and potential in our young bigs just have faith... both JT and hawes PLAYED GUARD before growing to full height... so that means they werent tall their whole bball life, so go figure why they arent so comfortable in the paint :)

off topic I was clamoring we trade salmons and miller for bargs and some one else look how bargs turned out :D it was onesided to our favor that time but you know how it went
 
A

AriesMar27

Guest
#19
#19
we need a bigman coach for thompson and hawes.... the potential is ther ebut they dont have anyone to teach them.
 
Heuge

Heuge

Starter
#21
#21
Aenadin said:
PROJECT... remember
P
R
O
J
E
C
T

and with no one to actually spearhead this bigman project what do you expect the man to do?

with all due respect to coachie. we all hate it when hawes takes threes but if coachie the yoda wants hawes to learn to be more consistent with his shots rather than work him in the post.. then he knows more than we do i guess

too much negativity around :D
Click to expand...
How many "projects" have actually panned out?
 
Aenadin

Aenadin

Starter
#22
#22
Heuge said:
How many "projects" have actually panned out?
Click to expand...
depends... was dwight howard a project? was kevin martin a project? every young player is a project. when you draft a guy 19/20 years old not fully established as a center and a freshman that is a project, you dont just draft him and hope he makes it on his own. every one needs guidance. JT on the other hand sure senior in college but wasnt fully a big if i recall. and the question with him was if his game would translate to the nba so far its ok understood for a sophomore,

For every project that hasnt panned out theres a bunch of impatient people thats all :D
 
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Heuge

Heuge

Starter
#23
#23
Aenadin said:
depends... was dwight howard a project? was kevin martin a project? every young player is a project. when you draft a guy 19/20 years old not fully established as a center and a freshman that is a project, you dont just draft him and hope he makes it on his own. every one needs guidance. JT on the other hand sure senior in college but wasnt fully a big if i recall. and the question with him was if his game would translate to the nba so far its ok understood for a sophomore,

For every project that hasnt panned out theres a bunch of impatient people thats all :D
Click to expand...
You saw Dwight Howard begin to make an impact immediately.

Martin is a poor example of a project, as he doesnt fit the age criteria you describe.

My opinion is this: with most projects you know what you are getting 2 or 3 years in. Though, you may not see the full extent of what you are getting you have a really good idea. With Hawes I think we have a really good idea. My guess is he is a marginal bench player from here on out, who will show signs every once in awhile. And since he doesnt possess any real defensive skills, my guess is, unless we see real improvement he wont have a long NBA career.
 
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