Arenas suspended indefinitely
- Thread starter Double-K
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You know, after reading all of these pages again, I'm more inclined to believe I overreacted, until I saw this post. You might not equate "gun in locker" with "shootout at verizon center", but how about "gun in locker" and "accidental discharge". Or "gun in locker" and "weapon malfunction" Guns. Are. Dangerous. You say you've never handled a gun - do you know that you can accidentaly leave a bullet in the chamber, even after the clip is out? Do you know that the firing pin can jam, and it can explode? I did overstate the seriousness of the conversation, but it is mindboggling how much you are downplaying the severity of what he did. I might be exagerating, but you are just ignoring it.
Also, in what universe is loading a gun, cocking it and dancing around normal or joking around? These are lethal weapons. Given the fact that these people have the mental capacity of 6 year olds to even think about joking like that shows they have absolutely no reason to have them. You make 111 Million - hire a damn bodyguard. Or is that not gangster enough? Supes, I respect you, you always have intellectual and interesting conversation, but you are way off base here. I'm not saying burn Arenas at the stake, but i wouldn't blink twice if they ban him from the leauge. Critterton too. Your statement that unloaded guns are not dangerous is not true. Your statement that the guns in his private locker are safe? How many people, from janitors, to staff, to other players have access there? One bullet is all it takes to take a life. That is never an exaggeration.
Also, in what universe is loading a gun, cocking it and dancing around normal or joking around? These are lethal weapons. Given the fact that these people have the mental capacity of 6 year olds to even think about joking like that shows they have absolutely no reason to have them. You make 111 Million - hire a damn bodyguard. Or is that not gangster enough? Supes, I respect you, you always have intellectual and interesting conversation, but you are way off base here. I'm not saying burn Arenas at the stake, but i wouldn't blink twice if they ban him from the leauge. Critterton too. Your statement that unloaded guns are not dangerous is not true. Your statement that the guns in his private locker are safe? How many people, from janitors, to staff, to other players have access there? One bullet is all it takes to take a life. That is never an exaggeration.
Regarding NBA penalty, I think Arenas' meeting at some point with Stern may have a lot to do with what ultimately comes down from the association. If he continues his silly jokester mentality, lies, etc. - no doubt the commish won't be amused.
I think the league will let serious legal matter play out, just leaving him suspended indefinitely until it all gets resolved. That probably means rest of the season - around 50 games left - losing about $7.5 million chunk of his huge contract. The next question will be, how long remain suspended after that or worse for him, having his Wizards contract annulled or banned from the league. All that would surely be a matter of what Arenas does from this point forward and how the legal issues play out.
I think the league will let serious legal matter play out, just leaving him suspended indefinitely until it all gets resolved. That probably means rest of the season - around 50 games left - losing about $7.5 million chunk of his huge contract. The next question will be, how long remain suspended after that or worse for him, having his Wizards contract annulled or banned from the league. All that would surely be a matter of what Arenas does from this point forward and how the legal issues play out.
I feel like Johnny Depp in Secret Window: "THE GUN WAS NOT LOADED!"
No accidental discharge. I've not handled guns, but I know that malfunctions can happen. I also know that Crittenton picked one of the guns up and threw it across the room, and it didn't go off. That leads me to believe that there wasn't a bullet left in the chamber. Which brings me to the fact that if you're a licensed and registered gun owner and don't know how to completely empty your gun, including the chamber, you weren't paying attention during safety training. Also, a gun can't explode with no ammunition in it.
Yes, guns can be dangerous. But a gun doesn't go off with no ammunition. And... There. Was. No. Ammunition.
I'm not ignoring the severity of the situation. I'm just not making it into something it's not. The guns were -- reportedly -- stored in a case in his locker, unloaded, with no ammunition in either the case or the locker. (Which is completely different from what Crittenton did, which was bring a loaded gun into the locker room, and roster it. He should get just as much punishment from the NBA as Arenas, if not more.)
Have you seen The Long Kiss Goodnight? Samuel Jackson dances and sings while loading a shotgun. What about Pulp Fiction? Hell, I was watching a Tom and Jerry cartoon just last night where Tom was dancing around with a gun. Seriously. Javaris Crittenton is a 22 year old basketball player who is obviously not responsible and mature.
I'm not saying that he was necessarily joking, but it doesn't sound like the situation escalated to the point that they were pointing guns at each other and threatening to shoot one another. Maybe I'm making light of that, and I acknowledged that, but it sounded like the whole thing was one big joke.
From what I have read, and I haven't seen anything to state otherwise, the lockers are private, and have a lockbox in them for personals and valuables. Again, this is not your high school gym locker. No one else goes in the players' lockers. Mike and Mike were talking about this Monday morning, and Goldberg was saying that NFL lockers have a private storage box that you can put stuff in, and no one touches it. He said athletes from other sports have told him that they all have them. No janitor, no staff member, and no other player would have access to a player's locker or his lockbox.
While an unloaded gun is to be taken seriously, it's not going to spontaneously explode. And you can't shoot someone with no bullets. I think you're exaggerating the seriousness of storing an unloaded weapon in an NBA locker room.
No accidental discharge. I've not handled guns, but I know that malfunctions can happen. I also know that Crittenton picked one of the guns up and threw it across the room, and it didn't go off. That leads me to believe that there wasn't a bullet left in the chamber. Which brings me to the fact that if you're a licensed and registered gun owner and don't know how to completely empty your gun, including the chamber, you weren't paying attention during safety training. Also, a gun can't explode with no ammunition in it.
Yes, guns can be dangerous. But a gun doesn't go off with no ammunition. And... There. Was. No. Ammunition.
I'm not ignoring the severity of the situation. I'm just not making it into something it's not. The guns were -- reportedly -- stored in a case in his locker, unloaded, with no ammunition in either the case or the locker. (Which is completely different from what Crittenton did, which was bring a loaded gun into the locker room, and roster it. He should get just as much punishment from the NBA as Arenas, if not more.)
Have you seen The Long Kiss Goodnight? Samuel Jackson dances and sings while loading a shotgun. What about Pulp Fiction? Hell, I was watching a Tom and Jerry cartoon just last night where Tom was dancing around with a gun. Seriously. Javaris Crittenton is a 22 year old basketball player who is obviously not responsible and mature.
I'm not saying that he was necessarily joking, but it doesn't sound like the situation escalated to the point that they were pointing guns at each other and threatening to shoot one another. Maybe I'm making light of that, and I acknowledged that, but it sounded like the whole thing was one big joke.
From what I have read, and I haven't seen anything to state otherwise, the lockers are private, and have a lockbox in them for personals and valuables. Again, this is not your high school gym locker. No one else goes in the players' lockers. Mike and Mike were talking about this Monday morning, and Goldberg was saying that NFL lockers have a private storage box that you can put stuff in, and no one touches it. He said athletes from other sports have told him that they all have them. No janitor, no staff member, and no other player would have access to a player's locker or his lockbox.
While an unloaded gun is to be taken seriously, it's not going to spontaneously explode. And you can't shoot someone with no bullets. I think you're exaggerating the seriousness of storing an unloaded weapon in an NBA locker room.
An unloaded gun is harmless, yet it apparently provoked Crittenton to take out his gun and load it. Who would have thought guns can cause a reaction like that? And how does Javaris know whether the guns are loaded or not anyways?
Also, just because you throw a gun on the ground and it doesn't go off, doesn't mean it isn't loaded. It's not like the movies where whenever a gun hits something it automatically goes off. It can, but it depends on the trigger sensitivity, and the nature of the impact.
I think there is a big difference in context between using guns as props for comedy in fictional storytelling and actual real life. Trust me, you'd feel the difference if you were in that room. Guns are dangerous whether you're joking around or not, especially when they're being handled by an idiot.
Also, just because you throw a gun on the ground and it doesn't go off, doesn't mean it isn't loaded. It's not like the movies where whenever a gun hits something it automatically goes off. It can, but it depends on the trigger sensitivity, and the nature of the impact.
I think there is a big difference in context between using guns as props for comedy in fictional storytelling and actual real life. Trust me, you'd feel the difference if you were in that room. Guns are dangerous whether you're joking around or not, especially when they're being handled by an idiot.
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All reports were that the guns were not loaded. Oprostaj is talking about how you can leave a round in the chamber on accident, but if the gun gets thrown across the room and there's somehow still one in the chamber, why wouldn't we take the next leap and just assume that it would go off? We're assuming everything else.
What we know is that the guns were not loaded. I'm not trying to make light of the situation. I'm just stressing that we're talking about unloaded guns.
And if you think you're in danger because someone has a gun on you, and you're not sure it's loaded, you don't go in your locker and grab your gun, load it, and roster it. Not if you're really threatened. The reports say that Arenas put the guns in front of Crittenton's locker and wrote him a note. Seriously, the situation didn't become dangerous until Crittenton made it dangerous, a) by throwing a gun that some are insisting he couldn't have known wasn't loaded, and b) by pulling his own gun out, loading it, cocking it, and waving it around. What Arenas did was stupid, but to me, Crittenton is the real offender.
What we know is that the guns were not loaded. I'm not trying to make light of the situation. I'm just stressing that we're talking about unloaded guns.
And if you think you're in danger because someone has a gun on you, and you're not sure it's loaded, you don't go in your locker and grab your gun, load it, and roster it. Not if you're really threatened. The reports say that Arenas put the guns in front of Crittenton's locker and wrote him a note. Seriously, the situation didn't become dangerous until Crittenton made it dangerous, a) by throwing a gun that some are insisting he couldn't have known wasn't loaded, and b) by pulling his own gun out, loading it, cocking it, and waving it around. What Arenas did was stupid, but to me, Crittenton is the real offender.
I believe under California law if you use a gun in the commission of a crime regardless of if it's loaded or not is not viewed differently and a felony offense.
As I recall, it's a "special circumstance" with added penalty of up to 5 years in prison. If discharged and someone is killed it can result in life in prison or the death penalty. As an aside, I believe even a toy gun if used in a crime (like a bank robbery) is also not distinguished under the law.
As I recall, it's a "special circumstance" with added penalty of up to 5 years in prison. If discharged and someone is killed it can result in life in prison or the death penalty. As an aside, I believe even a toy gun if used in a crime (like a bank robbery) is also not distinguished under the law.
Yes, as far as we know, Crittenton was the only one with a loaded gun, but does he pull that gun if Arenas doesn't lay guns next to his locker, which very well might be loaded? That just proves that guns don't work well as a joke and it should be common sense that bringing a gun into a situation, whether it's loaded or not can make people react in potentially dangerous ways. That's how it's dangerous. I'm definitely not trying to alleviate what Crittenton did, that's obviously far worse but what Arenas did illustrates the psychological effect guns can have on people, whether it's pointed at them or not. In Crittenton's own ridiculous way he saw it as a challenge, which is what it was when taken for face value, and that he should show Arenas that he's packing as well.
i disagree. the note didn't say "check out my cool guns" it said "pick one." them's fighting words, clearly shown by crittenton's reaction.
if someone put a bottle of hard liquor next to a set of car keys with the note "let's see your driving skills," and then someone actually drinks it and goes out driving, you're telling me that the person who goaded him/her into it has zero culpability???
if someone put a bottle of hard liquor next to a set of car keys with the note "let's see your driving skills," and then someone actually drinks it and goes out driving, you're telling me that the person who goaded him/her into it has zero culpability???
I read something today that said the DC district attorney's office would have to prove that the gun was real in order to charge Crittenton. (It's not likely that he'll be charged because there's no gun and there's no evidence.) I don't know if that matters.
And just waving a gun at someone can potentially be considered assault with a deadly weapon, loaded or not. I understand the seriousness of it. Especially when it's used in the commission of a crime, like armed robbery or sexual assault or something like that. Thing about Arenas is that his crime is simply having the gun, due to the strict DC handgun laws. He didn't point a gun at anyone, he didn't wave it around, didn't hold anyone up with it. He just put the unloaded guns out as a joke, it seems, which is incredibly stupid, but not life threatening. Crittenton's response was overboard and incredibly dangerous, seeing as how the gun was not only loaded, but cocked, and was basically a slip of the finger away from going off.
And just waving a gun at someone can potentially be considered assault with a deadly weapon, loaded or not. I understand the seriousness of it. Especially when it's used in the commission of a crime, like armed robbery or sexual assault or something like that. Thing about Arenas is that his crime is simply having the gun, due to the strict DC handgun laws. He didn't point a gun at anyone, he didn't wave it around, didn't hold anyone up with it. He just put the unloaded guns out as a joke, it seems, which is incredibly stupid, but not life threatening. Crittenton's response was overboard and incredibly dangerous, seeing as how the gun was not only loaded, but cocked, and was basically a slip of the finger away from going off.
I agree with that bolded part 100%.
My thoughts are pretty straightforward on this. First of all, I don't think there's anything dangerous about Arenas storing the guns in his locker the way that reportedly did. Since that's what the story is at this point, I'll have to leave it at that, because I'm not willing to take my own liberties with the details. Him having the guns there was against NBA rules and against DC law, but in and of itself, was not dangerous.
Secondly, him setting the guns out on the bench or whatever the way he did was incredibly stupid. Dumb. Ignorant. Thoughtless. Senseless. Moronic, and so on. No excusing it. But that action, in and of itself, didn't put anyone in danger, assuming the guns were not loaded, which is the story up to this point.
And thirdly, I have a hard time believing that Crittenton felt like he was in danger. Challenged? Sure. Arenas was basically calling his bluff. "You said you were gonna shoot me in the leg. Here. Take your pick. Do you want the Glock, or the Beretta M9?" He responded by picking up one of the four guns, throwing it across the room (I don't think anyone would pick up a gun they suspected was loaded and throw it across a room unless they had to), pulling his own gun, loading it, cocking it, and singing some sort of song as he waved it around. I'm sure the room was tense, but I don't think anyone thought anyone was going to get shot. The threat is there, because you have this fool waving around a loaded and cocked gun. It was a **** measuring contest that got out of hand.
Both of them were wrong. I think Arenas' actions were about a seven on the "WTF are you thinking?!" scale, and Crittenton's were about a ten. The only reason I'm arguing my point is because I think the line of distinction is that one person essentially placed four unloaded guns on a table, and another waved around a loaded and cocked gun.
My thoughts are pretty straightforward on this. First of all, I don't think there's anything dangerous about Arenas storing the guns in his locker the way that reportedly did. Since that's what the story is at this point, I'll have to leave it at that, because I'm not willing to take my own liberties with the details. Him having the guns there was against NBA rules and against DC law, but in and of itself, was not dangerous.
Secondly, him setting the guns out on the bench or whatever the way he did was incredibly stupid. Dumb. Ignorant. Thoughtless. Senseless. Moronic, and so on. No excusing it. But that action, in and of itself, didn't put anyone in danger, assuming the guns were not loaded, which is the story up to this point.
And thirdly, I have a hard time believing that Crittenton felt like he was in danger. Challenged? Sure. Arenas was basically calling his bluff. "You said you were gonna shoot me in the leg. Here. Take your pick. Do you want the Glock, or the Beretta M9?" He responded by picking up one of the four guns, throwing it across the room (I don't think anyone would pick up a gun they suspected was loaded and throw it across a room unless they had to), pulling his own gun, loading it, cocking it, and singing some sort of song as he waved it around. I'm sure the room was tense, but I don't think anyone thought anyone was going to get shot. The threat is there, because you have this fool waving around a loaded and cocked gun. It was a **** measuring contest that got out of hand.
Both of them were wrong. I think Arenas' actions were about a seven on the "WTF are you thinking?!" scale, and Crittenton's were about a ten. The only reason I'm arguing my point is because I think the line of distinction is that one person essentially placed four unloaded guns on a table, and another waved around a loaded and cocked gun.
no no, i realize that you think he's stupid and is not free from blame, i think we can all agree that much is true. but i also think that you are saying that arena's act of putting out the guns and writing the note were not dangerous.
i contend that they were because they precipitated the ensuing events.
i contend that they were because they precipitated the ensuing events.
Jack McCoy wouldn't have been involved. No one was shot. The most that is going to happen to Arenas from a legal standpoint is he'll get charged with felony possession of an unregistered handgun. Which, by the way, is only a felony because the guns weren't registered in DC.
** Side note: Apparently DC law states that it's lawful to store a handgun at your home or place of business. Arenas only legal problem is that the guns were not registered in DC.
** Side note: Apparently DC law states that it's lawful to store a handgun at your home or place of business. Arenas only legal problem is that the guns were not registered in DC.
Then where did the term "pistol whip" come from?
And yeah, there are a lot of things that can be used to cause that kind of harm, but I'd be astonished if there were three other things besides those guns in that whole locker room, including the fire extinguisher, that you conceivably use to beat somebody else to death.
And yeah, there are a lot of things that can be used to cause that kind of harm, but I'd be astonished if there were three other things besides those guns in that whole locker room, including the fire extinguisher, that you conceivably use to beat somebody else to death.
http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/Whitlock-NBA-needs-to-teach-guys-like-Arenas
I hate Jason Whitlock. This is spot on.
I hate Jason Whitlock. This is spot on.
Wow, thanks for the link. The opening three paragraphs definitely set the tone for his scathing completely torched earth condemnation of Arenas and Crittenton:
Do you think they would paint their bodies in tattoos if they comprehended they were joining a multi-billion-dollar industry tied to presenting a wholesome image of its players?
So there is little reason to marvel at Gilbert Arenas’ stupidity. He’s in crowded company, many of the NBA’s biggest names have as little self-awareness as Agent Zero IQ.
To them, the NBA is not a business. It’s the Senior AAU Tour with bi-weekly paychecks, private planes that double as floating casinos and a potential baby mama (or two) waiting in every city.
Excuse me for quoting myself but many of the subsequent posts concern me a great deal. Whether a gun was loaded or not doesn't make a bit of difference. Yes, I mean that. Who would know if one was? Are there any other people in this locker room? Do they know? How do they know? The rule isn't silly that says treat every gun every time as if it was loaded. Unloaded guns go off accidently. Don't bring an "unloaded" gun out in jest anywhere anytime. People that have to carry a gun because of their job don't do that.
I realize there's a level of disconnection here which is likely influencing people's opinions. We're writing about this online on a message board. The soapbox is somewhat assumed in this situation. It's not exactly the argument that Gilbert Arenas acted poorly and should be punished that I disagree with. It's more the tone which seems completely over the top on almost all accounts. I understand some people have a closer relationship to gun violence than I do. But trying to be as objective as possible here, the severity of the punishment should be proportional to the severity of the crime.
What Gilbert Arenas did was unsafe. He took a joke beyond the point where most people would find it funny and invited retaliation. If you submit that it's legal to own guns, than putting them in the wrong place (unloaded mind you) should not be punishable by up to 20 years in prison. That's beyond absurd.
On the other side of this, if Javaris Crittenton has got a gun and a clip in his belt already and has threatened to shoot Arenas in a previous conversation (which apparently he did) than he quite likely would have pulled it out, maybe was planning it even, regardless of whether Arenas puts the guns out there first. Storing guns in a locker is one thing. Concealing them on your person with the appropriate ammunition and then threatening another person with them is quite another thing. What Gilbert did was dumb. What Crittenton did is the argument against gun ownership. If you have the gun on you already than getting angry with a person becomes a possible murder case. I don't think Crittenton should be allowed to own a gun again. He's already proven he's unfit in my mind -- but that's not the law.
So aside from whatever your opinion is on gun ownership or gun safety (on which there is obviously a wide range of opinions) if you look at the actual situation here, I see that Gilbert Arenas made a mistake. What Javaris Crittenton did was a mistake that put a lot more people in immediate danger. I don't think either one deserves to be made an example of. It's not their fault NBA players are pre-dominently black. It's not their fault gun ownership is particulalry high within their demographic. It's not their fault basketball players are frequently associated with gangs or gang violence. Expelling them from the league over this stupid incident makes about as much sense as forcing every middle-eastern looking male to submit to a strip search to board an airplane. It's just not ethical.
David Stern's job is primarily PR spin doctor. He exists to oversee how the league as a whole sells itself to the general public. If he needs to come down harder than necessary on this to save face for the league or to stop a negative trend I understand why he would do it, but I still don't agree with it. We're talking about actual people here not just names on a replica jersey or a trading card. You wouldn't want the legal system to hand you a particularly harsh sentencing to prove a point or make an example out of you. Beacuse it's not ethical. So when anyone suggests to me that bad PR is more important than the freedom and liberties of an actual person that ticks me off a little bit. Put what actually happened here in perspective. Do you really think Gilbert deserves to be expelled from the NBA? Really?
What Gilbert Arenas did was unsafe. He took a joke beyond the point where most people would find it funny and invited retaliation. If you submit that it's legal to own guns, than putting them in the wrong place (unloaded mind you) should not be punishable by up to 20 years in prison. That's beyond absurd.
On the other side of this, if Javaris Crittenton has got a gun and a clip in his belt already and has threatened to shoot Arenas in a previous conversation (which apparently he did) than he quite likely would have pulled it out, maybe was planning it even, regardless of whether Arenas puts the guns out there first. Storing guns in a locker is one thing. Concealing them on your person with the appropriate ammunition and then threatening another person with them is quite another thing. What Gilbert did was dumb. What Crittenton did is the argument against gun ownership. If you have the gun on you already than getting angry with a person becomes a possible murder case. I don't think Crittenton should be allowed to own a gun again. He's already proven he's unfit in my mind -- but that's not the law.
So aside from whatever your opinion is on gun ownership or gun safety (on which there is obviously a wide range of opinions) if you look at the actual situation here, I see that Gilbert Arenas made a mistake. What Javaris Crittenton did was a mistake that put a lot more people in immediate danger. I don't think either one deserves to be made an example of. It's not their fault NBA players are pre-dominently black. It's not their fault gun ownership is particulalry high within their demographic. It's not their fault basketball players are frequently associated with gangs or gang violence. Expelling them from the league over this stupid incident makes about as much sense as forcing every middle-eastern looking male to submit to a strip search to board an airplane. It's just not ethical.
David Stern's job is primarily PR spin doctor. He exists to oversee how the league as a whole sells itself to the general public. If he needs to come down harder than necessary on this to save face for the league or to stop a negative trend I understand why he would do it, but I still don't agree with it. We're talking about actual people here not just names on a replica jersey or a trading card. You wouldn't want the legal system to hand you a particularly harsh sentencing to prove a point or make an example out of you. Beacuse it's not ethical. So when anyone suggests to me that bad PR is more important than the freedom and liberties of an actual person that ticks me off a little bit. Put what actually happened here in perspective. Do you really think Gilbert deserves to be expelled from the NBA? Really?
Does Gil deserve to be expelled from the NBA? no. Does Javaris? Maybe.
It's hard to say if JC should be expelled when JR Smith kills someone and Delonte West is found with enough guns to make Duke Nukem blush, yet they're both still playing. However, Javaris crossed a line when he brought in and brandished a loaded gun into an NBA arena. That line was that he dragged his dirt onto NBA territory. Still, the NBA needs proof that he did it.
It's hard to say if JC should be expelled when JR Smith kills someone and Delonte West is found with enough guns to make Duke Nukem blush, yet they're both still playing. However, Javaris crossed a line when he brought in and brandished a loaded gun into an NBA arena. That line was that he dragged his dirt onto NBA territory. Still, the NBA needs proof that he did it.
This is apples and bananas: one example is someone being punished for something that they actually did, and the other is racial profiling.
If you think that that's actually what's happening, you must not understand what those words mean: if Gilbert Arenas is banned from the league, meaning that he would, effectively, be "fired" from the NBA, that does not infringe upon his freedom or liberties, any more than you or I getting fired from our jobs would infringe upon ours. Gilbert Arenas does not have the "right" to play in the NBA and make a hundred eleven million dollars. I hope that Stern bans him for life and, since I'm sure he would appeal such a ban, I hope that the ban would be upheld in arbitration. That doesn't impact his rights in any way shape or form: and if Gilbert Arenas can't get another job because he only has one marketable skill, that's Gilbert Arenas' problem.
And, while you're at it, ban Crittendon and West, too.
If you think that that's actually what's happening, you must not understand what those words mean: if Gilbert Arenas is banned from the league, meaning that he would, effectively, be "fired" from the NBA, that does not infringe upon his freedom or liberties, any more than you or I getting fired from our jobs would infringe upon ours. Gilbert Arenas does not have the "right" to play in the NBA and make a hundred eleven million dollars. I hope that Stern bans him for life and, since I'm sure he would appeal such a ban, I hope that the ban would be upheld in arbitration. That doesn't impact his rights in any way shape or form: and if Gilbert Arenas can't get another job because he only has one marketable skill, that's Gilbert Arenas' problem.
And, while you're at it, ban Crittendon and West, too.
You missed my point. I agree that Arenas should be punished for what he did. I don't agree that his punishment should take in to account that black athletes already have a bad reputation for owning and using guns irresponsibly. That's the racial profiling.
Basically I believe that all people have a right to be treated fairly. If someone makes a silly mistake they should be punished, not gutted and strung up in the street. I suppose your employer can fire you for any number of reasons except for those that are legally protected (race, gender, sexual orientation). If it's legal, that's their business. If that's what actually happens here, however, it's clear PR played a major role and that's just senseless to me. I'm a big NBA fan. I'm not going to stop being a fan because of this. No fans were in any danger. A few players may have been, but there was no malicious intent involved in any of this. And the people who rip the NBA for being filled with thugs and former gang members are going to use this as ammunition regardless of what happens to Arenas or Crittenton because they've already defined their own vision of reality.
The question I have for you is this: why do you hope the NBA bans Gilbert Arenas for life? What does that do for you? Is it because you hate practical jokesters? Is it because you don't think anyone should ever fool around with guns? There has to be some reason outside of this particular incident because I can think of no rational reason why that kind of punishment is warranted by this incident. For Crittenton -- maybe.
Basically I believe that all people have a right to be treated fairly. If someone makes a silly mistake they should be punished, not gutted and strung up in the street. I suppose your employer can fire you for any number of reasons except for those that are legally protected (race, gender, sexual orientation). If it's legal, that's their business. If that's what actually happens here, however, it's clear PR played a major role and that's just senseless to me. I'm a big NBA fan. I'm not going to stop being a fan because of this. No fans were in any danger. A few players may have been, but there was no malicious intent involved in any of this. And the people who rip the NBA for being filled with thugs and former gang members are going to use this as ammunition regardless of what happens to Arenas or Crittenton because they've already defined their own vision of reality.
The question I have for you is this: why do you hope the NBA bans Gilbert Arenas for life? What does that do for you? Is it because you hate practical jokesters? Is it because you don't think anyone should ever fool around with guns? There has to be some reason outside of this particular incident because I can think of no rational reason why that kind of punishment is warranted by this incident. For Crittenton -- maybe.
Here's part of my concern, and why I wouldn't be opposed to banning him for life: He's a role model for children. Normally, I'm not on the bandwagon that famous people have to be perfect citizens, but in this scenario, I can't help but ponder the consequences of his actions. If some dumb kid who looks up to Gil hears about him playing with guns and using them as a source of amusement, they might think it's okay to do the same thing. That could very well result in somebody getting killed. As a responsible gun owner myself, I can safely say that nobody wants kids to view guns as toys. Gun accidents (especially involving children) are bad PR for everybody (gun rights advocacy groups, gun owners, and this case, the NBA). If Gil had fessed up right away and professed publicly that guns are not toys and not something to be joking around with, I wouldn't care nearly as much, but he still thinks it's a joke. If that's the message that he's going to send, the NBA has every right to ban him for life.
If that was your point, then you're fabricating an argument. I don't think that Arenas' punishment has anything to do with the reputation of black athletes. I think that his punishment has to do with the fact that he violated his employer's Code of Conduct.
Abe Pollin is rollin' over in his grave...
With all due respect, what the **** does "fair" have to do with it?
You suppose?
You know what? Check please; we have no common ground, and I'm not going to raise my blood pressure discussing this with you.
Abe Pollin is rollin' over in his grave...
With all due respect, what the **** does "fair" have to do with it?
You suppose?
You know what? Check please; we have no common ground, and I'm not going to raise my blood pressure discussing this with you.
I don't think that it's Gilbert Arenas' job to teach my children that guns are dangerous. That's my job, and I take it very seriously. I don't want anyone but me and those who are close to me teaching my kids about gun safety, etc. If "some dumb kid" takes his cues from Gilbert Arenas, he's just as likely to take his cues from pretty much any TV show that kids are subjected to. Some estimates say that a kid has witnessed close to a thousand gun related crimes on TV by the time they go to high school. Gilbert Arenas isn't the only problem. I don't think he should be singled out because of that. If you're going to ban him, ban him because of what he did, not because "he's supposed to be an example."
I understand what you're saying, but in the same vein, you can say that someone who is convicted of DUI or buying illegal drugs should be banned for life because they're sending the message that those things are a joking matter. I think part of Arenas' punishment, like has been mentioned, is he should have to do some high profile community service where he can display his contrition -- if there really is any -- regarding his actions. I don't think he should be banned for life because he set a bad example.
By the way, we all knew that Widowmaker2k is a gun owner...
I understand what you're saying, but in the same vein, you can say that someone who is convicted of DUI or buying illegal drugs should be banned for life because they're sending the message that those things are a joking matter. I think part of Arenas' punishment, like has been mentioned, is he should have to do some high profile community service where he can display his contrition -- if there really is any -- regarding his actions. I don't think he should be banned for life because he set a bad example.
By the way, we all knew that Widowmaker2k is a gun owner...
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