Kings Select in the 2008 NBA DRAFT??

[fnordius]

Good for him.. He's not close to being ready yet.

On the other hand, despite what his coach says, when I read reports on him a year and a half ago, they said that he was nowhere near ready. At the end of last season, same. Throughout this season, same. I'm starting to wonder whether the guy will ever develop enough game to get into lottery range.

He could be one of those slow-developing centers like Ben Wallace, I can't rule out the possibility that he'll be a fine center five or six years from now. But if he doesn't show some really obvious improvement in the next year, I think he might be wasting his time.

 

[Gary]

On the other hand, despite what his coach says, when I read reports on him a year and a half ago, they said that he was nowhere near ready. At the end of last season, same. Throughout this season, same. I'm starting to wonder whether the guy will ever develop enough game to get into lottery range.

He could be one of those slow-developing centers like Ben Wallace, I can't rule out the possibility that he'll be a fine center five or six years from now. But if he doesn't show some really obvious improvement in the next year, I think he might be wasting his time.

The thing that worries me about Thabeet is that for all the attributes he has he just doesn't "get it" yet. When watching him on the floor he stands around pretty much the whole game. Lets smaller defenders just whip around him, and you would figure a guy with his size would be a good strong side defender but his game screams weak side D. A lot of his blocks come from just jumping after a guy gets around him hoping that he will swat the shot.

Another thing that worries me is that when he finally gets the college game will he have to learn it all over again in the NBA?

 

[Vlade4GM]

Just watching some Brandon Jennings videos, this kid is gonna be pretty good IMO, his combo of athleticism, vision, and handles is sick. I hope we have a shot at this kid in 09.

 

[NewArena]

Quick off topic question...Can ron excersise his option right now, or does he have to wait until june 30th to tell everyone?

 

[fnordius]

Quick off topic question...Can ron excersise his option right now, or does he have to wait until june 30th to tell everyone?

The language for options isn't identical from one contract to the next, so I don't think anyone can say for sure unless they've seen Ron's contract. I suspect that he could accept it now, although he might still have the ability to rescind that decision before June 30.

My guess is that he doesn't want to commit any sooner than he has to.

 

[NewArena]

Thanks man.

 

[Henkel]

UConn center to stay in college


STORRS, Conn. (AP)—Connecticut center Hasheem Thabeet plans to return to school for his junior season instead of entering the NBA draft.
The 7-foot-3 native of Dar es Salaam, Tanzania, was projected as a first-round pick in the draft.
Thabeet averaged more than 10 points and almost eight rebounds a game as a sophomore, and ranked third in the nation with 147 blocked shots. He was the Big East’s defensive player of the year, helping UConn to a 24-9 record.
“As a team, we took a step in the right direction this year, but I look forward to us working together to win a Big East Championship and making a run at a national championship,” Thabeet said in a statement released Sunday by UConn. “I really enjoy being here, getting a great education and spending time with my friends and teammates.”
Thabeet, 21, has been playing organized basketball for fewer than six years.

“Hasheem has made as much progress as any player I have coached in my 36 years and if he continues that incredible progress, he will help us take the next step as a team and help himself become one of the best players in college basketball,” UConn coach Jim Calhoun said.



http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaab/news;...slug=ap-connecticut-thabeet&prov=ap&type=lgns

Good for him.. He's not close to being ready yet.

Smart decision. Top 5 pick in 2009.

 

[bajaden]

Just watching some Brandon Jennings videos, this kid is gonna be pretty good IMO, his combo of athleticism, vision, and handles is sick. I hope we have a shot at this kid in 09.

Taking into account that he's only played Round ball for 6 years, I'll cut him some slack. However, he just doesn't seem like a natural to me. Its sort of like, you take your 14 yr old nephew, who's never played golf in his life, to give him a golf lesson. After a day on the driving range, the kid is hitting the ball farther and straighter than you are, and attracted the attention of the club pro. You wish you had never met the kid, much less be related to him. Thabeet may well turn out to be pretty good, but its going to take a while. He gets beat by guys much smaller than him. Not for lack of athleticism, but for lack of understanding the game. Going back to school is a good decision.

 

[hammystyle]

Robin is a better free throw shooter, which is not saying much. He also has a better offensive game, which is not saying much. As you can see, I'm not a big Noah fan. As far as Noah's ceiling. Offensivily, unless he completely revamps his shot, he's reached his ceiling. His only game is put backs. If Noah had played for Rider, no one would have even heard of him.. I'm sorry, I just couldn't help myself.

Robin Lopez can't carry Noah's jock. Noah is better now, has always been better and is much more likely to improve.

Noah averaged 68% in FT in college and 69% this year. That's about average for a center. Lopez shot 65% last year, a big jump from 53% as a Freshman.

Noah was a far better offensive player in college. He averaged 12 and 14 points a game on 60% shooting while also averaging over 2 assists per game. Lopez averaged 10 ppg on 53% shooting while averaging less than an assist per game.

Defensively Noah is a much better rebounder and gets more steals. Lopez averaged slightly more BPG his only advantage.

Noah had a really strong rookie year for a team in the tank, and figures to only get better.

 

[bajaden]

Robin Lopez can't carry Noah's jock. Noah is better now, has always been better and is much more likely to improve.

Noah averaged 68% in FT in college and 69% this year. That's about average for a center. Lopez shot 65% last year, a big jump from 53% as a Freshman.

Noah was a far better offensive player in college. He averaged 12 and 14 points a game on 60% shooting while also averaging over 2 assists per game. Lopez averaged 10 ppg on 53% shooting while averaging less than an assist per game.

Defensively Noah is a much better rebounder and gets more steals. Lopez averaged slightly more BPG his only advantage.

Noah had a really strong rookie year for a team in the tank, and figures to only get better.

I will respectfully disagree. Noah has a higher shooting percentage because all of his shots are basicly put backs. Lopez was never thought of as the first, second, or even the third scoring option at Stanford. I've watched both these guys play a lot, and I wouldn't want either of them as my starting PF. I just think that Lopez is more fundamentaly sound with his shot. Whereas Noah has terrible technic. I just don't see much upside, when your technic is that bad. It doesn't make you a bad defender or rebounder, but you'll never be a very good offensive player. I wouldn't mind either one as my back up.

How big is that Jock, by the way..

 

[LPKingsFan]

And to add, defense isn't just about block, rebound or steal numbers. Robin was the best interior defender in the Pac-10 last year, hands down. He's huge, yet mobile enough to stay with guys like Ryan Anderson on the perimeter. His teammates called him Beast, and for good reason.

 

[BawLa]

It's not that I'm against R.Lopez...he has good size and length, decent athleticism, and has the best chance to come in and rebound/defend right away. But I'd still rather have Spreights, McGee or Thompson as the prospective PF of our future. All three have higher ceilings than Lopez. And since we will be rebuilding for a couple years IMO, I think drafting for potential is a good way to go. If we found another pick and we drafted Lopez I would be cool with it, but I'd be looking hard at who we passed up.

 

[bajaden]

It's not that I'm against R.Lopez...he has good size and length, decent athleticism, and has the best chance to come in and rebound/defend right away. But I'd still rather have Spreights, McGee or Thompson as the prospective PF of our future. All three have higher ceilings than Lopez. And since we will be rebuilding for a couple years IMO, I think drafting for potential is a good way to go. If we found another pick and we drafted Lopez I would be cool with it, but I'd be looking hard at who we passed up.

I agree 95%. I'm all for potential, as long as it comes with some already proven skills. I need to know that this guy, whoever he is has the ability to work hard and has the ability to learn from that hard work. A good work ethic is very important and hard to judge with young men. Some players that seemed to coast through college, become very serious when they become pro's. Others just keep on coasting. Thats where potential can become a crap shoot.

 

[BawLa]

I agree 95%. I'm all for potential, as long as it comes with some already proven skills. I need to know that this guy, whoever he is has the ability to work hard and has the ability to learn from that hard work. A good work ethic is very important and hard to judge with young men. Some players that seemed to coast through college, become very serious when they become pro's. Others just keep on coasting. Thats where potential can become a crap shoot.

Nice post.

When it comes to work ethic, I'd like to think that money/fame/prospect of more money are plenty motivators for young talent entering the league. These guys don't see a penny in college and when it comes to the lievelyhood of themselves and their families, more players find a way to contribute in the NBA than just coast and flop. If Kenny Thomas can carve out a contract for himself, then I'd like to think JaVale McGee can too.

Don't get me wrong, I recognize the pontential for bust in virtually every case whether or not I publicly admit it. But IMO, we need to roll the dice a little bit. We are perched in mediocrity. We aren't taleted enough to get to the playoffs or do anything there, and we aren't bad enough to grab a franchise player/top 3 pick. So the way I see it, we will be continuing to grab these #10-#12 picks until we finally allow ourselves to hit bottom and bounce back up. Drafting for potential in our situation makes the most sense to me because if a payer busts, it will only help us to reach that top 3 pick quicker, and if the player reaches the potential then we added a quality player to our team that has a good chance of being a part of the team when we reach the other side.

And when it comes down to it, no one knows the future. We don't know who will succeed and who won't. The higher you go in the draft the more of a sure thing you are, but even still there is always a gamble factor. At some point we can't over-worry about every decision we make. If we want to be conservative with every decision we make, then this team will not be very fun to watch for the next 10 years.

 

[hammystyle]

I will respectfully disagree. Noah has a higher shooting percentage because all of his shots are basicly put backs. Lopez was never thought of as the first, second, or even the third scoring option at Stanford. I've watched both these guys play a lot, and I wouldn't want either of them as my starting PF. I just think that Lopez is more fundamentaly sound with his shot. Whereas Noah has terrible technic. I just don't see much upside, when your technic is that bad. It doesn't make you a bad defender or rebounder, but you'll never be a very good offensive player. I wouldn't mind either one as my back up.

How big is that Jock, by the way..

Noah's shooting form is terrible, but for as bad as it looks its somewhat effective. Otherwise he's an excellent passer and ballhandler for a big man. He may never be a great scorer but if you have other scorers around him he can be an effeective offensive player because he moves the ball and crashes the offensive glass. He brings things to the table and takes nothing off it. He's also a good defender with great upside. He was a pretty good starter in the NBA last year with plenty of room to get better.

If Noah shoots so high on putbacks why can't Lopez? He's not the 2nd or 3rd option because he's a bad offensive player. Its not like he had more talent around him in college than Noah did. They're just not even close talent-wise.

 

[fnordius]

I agree 95%. I'm all for potential, as long as it comes with some already proven skills....

...we need to roll the dice a little bit. We are perched in mediocrity...

Agree 100% with the common demoninators. I think that what is an acceptable risk level for us, will continue going up as long as we're in the doldrums. I don't want a Collison sort of safe pick, and while I'm also uneasy about a Thabeet level of risk, I think there's a sweet spot for us somewhere in between.

But for every year that goes by without Geoff+Maloofs blowing it up, I am going to become less risk averse. If the FO's plan really is to sit on their hands for another two years, I think they should consider some major project picks in the next three drafts, because we will have nothing to lose.

 

[Vlade4GM]

Agree 100% with the common demoninators. I think that what is an acceptable risk level for us, will continue going up as long as we're in the doldrums. I don't want a Collison sort of safe pick, and while I'm also uneasy about a Thabeet level of risk, I think there's a sweet spot for us somewhere in between.

But for every year that goes by without Geoff+Maloofs blowing it up, I am going to become less risk averse. If the FO's plan really is to sit on their hands for another two years, I think they should consider some major project picks in the next three drafts, because we will have nothing to lose.

I think Anthony Randolph is the best project pick we can take and he's got a solid skill set offensively to build on. I think he has the best upside of anyone potentially available at our pick. I'm thinking Chris Bosh with more shot blocking and a less fundamentals.

Speights is good too, he has the potential for better man D than Randolph considering his size but it's still unproven to this point. Has better polish on the offensive end.

Arthur has the best polish on the defensive end and probably offensive end too. Problem being he hasn't shown enough aggressiveness on the boards or scoring. So since he's been in a more prominent program and has gotten more playing time, but still hasn't dominated; his upside is a little more limited than Speights and Randolph.

I wouldn't be upset with any of these guys, but I think we should take Randolph because I think he has the best overall upside.

 

[bajaden]

Nice post.

When it comes to work ethic, I'd like to think that money/fame/prospect of more money are plenty motivators for young talent entering the league. These guys don't see a penny in college and when it comes to the lievelyhood of themselves and their families, more players find a way to contribute in the NBA than just coast and flop. If Kenny Thomas can carve out a contract for himself, then I'd like to think JaVale McGee can too.

Don't get me wrong, I recognize the pontential for bust in virtually every case whether or not I publicly admit it. But IMO, we need to roll the dice a little bit. We are perched in mediocrity. We aren't taleted enough to get to the playoffs or do anything there, and we aren't bad enough to grab a franchise player/top 3 pick. So the way I see it, we will be continuing to grab these #10-#12 picks until we finally allow ourselves to hit bottom and bounce back up. Drafting for potential in our situation makes the most sense to me because if a payer busts, it will only help us to reach that top 3 pick quicker, and if the player reaches the potential then we added a quality player to our team that has a good chance of being a part of the team when we reach the other side.

And when it comes down to it, no one knows the future. We don't know who will succeed and who won't. The higher you go in the draft the more of a sure thing you are, but even still there is always a gamble factor. At some point we can't over-worry about every decision we make. If we want to be conservative with every decision we make, then this team will not be very fun to watch for the next 10 years.

I can't really argue with your premise. Right now were staring into a fog, and can't see whats out there, meaning the future. Its very possible to get lucky with a later pick. Well, I don't think its all luck, but there is an element of luck. I don't pretend to know whats in Petie's mind, but, he has made some pretty good picks, even if we didn't get the total benefits of them. G. Wallace, Hedo, Peja, J. Will, etc. Douby may be his worst pick, not because I don't think he can play in this league. But because he just didn't fit any need we had at the time.

By next Sept., we'll know better where we stand and hopefully have an idea of the direction the team is taking. I think that all the real fans. The one's that have been through thick and thin with this team, would continue to support the team if they decide to blow it up, and commit to a rebuild. Its the fickle fans that they probably worry about. The bandwagon fans that have a 10 second attention span. I'm sure they would like to find a way to keep them interested. It is about making money, as well as passion with the Maloff's.

 

[bajaden]

Noah's shooting form is terrible, but for as bad as it looks its somewhat effective. Otherwise he's an excellent passer and ballhandler for a big man. He may never be a great scorer but if you have other scorers around him he can be an effeective offensive player because he moves the ball and crashes the offensive glass. He brings things to the table and takes nothing off it. He's also a good defender with great upside. He was a pretty good starter in the NBA last year with plenty of room to get better.

If Noah shoots so high on putbacks why can't Lopez? He's not the 2nd or 3rd option because he's a bad offensive player. Its not like he had more talent around him in college than Noah did. They're just not even close talent-wise.

Look, I have nothing against Noah, except his limitations. I never meant to get into a discussion of who is better. I certainly am not pushing for the Kings to draft R. Lopez. I just think he has a bigger upside than you do. Your right about him not having a better team around him. That was the problem. Stanford's guards sucked in my opinion. I predicted that they wouldn't go far in the tournament because of it. I figure he has to have some of the same gene's that Brook has. Hey, thats got to count for something, doesn't it?

 

[bajaden]

I think Anthony Randolph is the best project pick we can take and he's got a solid skill set offensively to build on. I think he has the best upside of anyone potentially available at our pick. I'm thinking Chris Bosh with more shot blocking and a less fundamentals.

Speights is good too, he has the potential for better man D than Randolph considering his size but it's still unproven to this point. Has better polish on the offensive end.

Arthur has the best polish on the defensive end and probably offensive end too. Problem being he hasn't shown enough aggressiveness on the boards or scoring. So since he's been in a more prominent program and has gotten more playing time, but still hasn't dominated; his upside is a little more limited than Speights and Randolph.

I wouldn't be upset with any of these guys, but I think we should take Randolph because I think he has the best overall upside.

I would have no problem with Randolph. I like Speights better, but thats just a personal preference. I just don't think that Randolph is going to be there when we pick. I have him going around the 10th pick..

 

[Vlade4GM]

I would have no problem with Randolph. I like Speights better, but thats just a personal preference. I just don't think that Randolph is going to be there when we pick. I have him going around the 10th pick..

Yea, he's gaining some steams on rankings right now, but that's just who I like the most on guys who are potentially in our range. Speights would be my second choice.

 

[Gary]

I am sorry... I can't get McGee's stupid video to upload to a share site.. It cuts out int he middle, and when I tried to break it in half the front half wouldn't work for some reason.. I am going to try to upload it directly to my hosing account through FTP, and just give a direct link that way.. Hopefully it works GRRRR..

As for Randolph, yah...... I got a few more highlight reels on him although I still haven't seen a complete game, and I think some team will take a chance on him in the top 10 because of him being a 7' athletic as hell SF.... IMO I would take Green over Randolph because of the offense you get with Greene, but Randolph has the higher ceiling.

 

[fnordius]

I am going to try to upload it directly to my hosing account through FTP, and just give a direct link that way.. Hopefully it works GRRRR..

If you'd like, I'd be happy to compress and/or edit it for posting/reposting. I couldn't host it in the long term (dynamic IP address), but could set up an ftp server for you to send it to me.

I'm going to run a quick errand, but could have the ftp server waiting for you by about 9:00, if you're interested.

 

[beb0p]

An article about Anthony Randolph and DeAndre Jordan from their HS senior days. Look at the picture of those two standing next to each other, holy cow, Jordan is skinny by nba standard, but he looks like Dwight Howard next to Randolph.

On the other hand, the coaches for both players said they love to play defense and are very competitive on the court. Randolph sounds like he can be a big-time player in the nba.

http://www.risemag.com/main.cfm?act...ws&&categoryKey=PlayerProfiles&articleId=7990

 

[Gary]

Yah, I don't think We will be able to touch Randolph anyway.. I am not a big fan because I didn't get to see him much (no full games), and he was a good player on a bad bad bad team so that raised questions too. I think Milwaukee actually might take him at #7 if Gallinari goes at #6.. I can't see Gordon being picked by Milwaukee unless they want to go small with Redd, and Gordon both on the floor at the same time.

nbadraft.net -#8
draftexpress.com -#9
nbamock.com -#7
mynbadraft.com -#10
nba-draft.com -#10
basketdraft.com -#11
collegehoopsnet.com -#10

So I don't think we would have a chance.. The other web sites don;t even have the orders correct so I don't trust their info at all.. All the above have pretty much the same order of picks which seems about right.

Oh, I have an FTP I am uploading the McGee games to right now It's working.

 

[Vlade4GM]

I don't see any team ahead of MIL wanting Gallinari, whether they want him or not I don't know but he's a more skilled and natural 3 than Randolph is. However Randolph may be a hot commodity 8-11, Charlotte may be drafting for someone else by that time so who knows where they'll go; Chicago is plenty deep in forwards but no one has really stood out yet (not really a CHI type pick); New Jersey might take him if Jordan is off the board if they think he has a future at the 3 (Williams is their future 4) and they got time to wait; He's an athletic big with guard skill so I can see O'Brien liking him, but they're (indy) so lacking in guard strength it's hard not to see them go any other way. It's really hard to say where late lotto guys are going to go this early. To say we have no chance at him based on what some draft site rankings are (when they're not even considering team needs) is silly and very premature.

 

[Gary]

I don't see any team ahead of MIL wanting Gallinari, whether they want him or not I don't know but he's a more skilled and natural 3 than Randolph is. However Randolph may be a hot commodity 8-11, Charlotte may be drafting for someone else by that time so who knows where they'll go; Chicago is plenty deep in forwards but no one has really stood out yet (not really a CHI type pick); New Jersey might take him if Jordan is off the board if they think he has a future at the 3 (Williams is their future 4) and they got time to wait; He's an athletic big with guard skill so I can see O'Brien liking him, but they're (indy) so lacking in guard strength it's hard not to see them go any other way. It's really hard to say where late lotto guys are going to go this early. To say we have no chance at him based on what some draft site rankings are (when they're not even considering team needs) is silly and very premature.

Clippers need a SG real bad, an Gallinari can play SG although he might be a liability on defense. Not really to worry though because Brand, and Kaman in the middle will help if someone were to get by Gallinari. You gotta figure though that Maggette will be back next year (at something like 8.5 mil?).

So if I had to guess what the Clippers do next year it would have to be move Maggette to SG, Thorton to SF. Brand and Kaman play PF/C, and Livingston stakes his PG job back..

OR..... The Clippers trade their pick, or draft a player for another team, and trade that player for Westbrook, or Augustin.... (this is in the case that Livingston can't return at 100%)

Clippers draft Love, and trade him to the Kings who draft Westbrook/Augustin + the Kings give either another pick later on, or a player... Who knows.. But Clippers are in a good position to trade their pick if they are looking for a PG, because I don;t see Bayless dropping to #6, and I don't see Clippers using the pick to draft someone they could get at 10th-14th.

 

[BMiller52]

Clippers need a SG real bad, an Gallinari can play SG although he might be a liability on defense. Not really to worry though because Brand, and Kaman in the middle will help if someone were to get by Gallinari. You gotta figure though that Maggette will be back next year (at something like 8.5 mil?).

So if I had to guess what the Clippers do next year it would have to be move Maggette to SG, Thorton to SF. Brand and Kaman play PF/C, and Livingston stakes his PG job back..

OR..... The Clippers trade their pick, or draft a player for another team, and trade that player for Westbrook, or Augustin.... (this is in the case that Livingston can't return at 100%)

Clippers draft Love, and trade him to the Kings who draft Westbrook/Augustin + the Kings give either another pick later on, or a player... Who knows.. But Clippers are in a good position to trade their pick if they are looking for a PG, because I don;t see Bayless dropping to #6, and I don't see Clippers using the pick to draft someone they could get at 10th-14th.

Dude we get KILLED in that deal. Love doesn't fit our team AND we're going to give up more picks or a valuable player? Sorry but that's just terrible.

 

[Vlade4GM]

I don't see Maggette in their future plans at all, they don't need him when they have Thornton; if he doesn't opt out I look for them to trade him. They're either going to want to add a playmaker (like you said) or a pure shooter (like Gordon), Gallinari is not a SG IMO, he's 6'9 and doesn't have the greatest athleticism. I highly doubt they're interested in him. Whether they want to trade down, who knows? That's complete speculation at this point, so I go off the assumption that they keep their pick and I don't see them going for anything other than a true guard. If Livingston is healthy enough to return (which they should have a decent idea of by the time of the draft), I think Gordon could be huge for them; he plays hard D, has great athleticism and he can shoot the ball, and he and Livingston can switch off defensively. If they're going to trade their pick for a PG, I think it's for a vet PG not DJ Augustin.

 

[Gary]

Dude we get KILLED in that deal. Love doesn't fit our team AND we're going to give up more picks or a valuable player? Sorry but that's just terrible.

It's terrible to you because you don't like Love.. If it were us getting Randolph or something I would be telling you it was terrible.. I was just using it as an example... Anyway, you list guys like McGee, Arthur, and Jordan who all played kinda crappy if you look at the entire years worth of play.

Arthur = inconsistent and not worth a #12
McGee = Worse D than Love (which is a laugh), and not worth a #12 (coming from a fellow UNR alumni)
Jordan = No O (yet), and some unlucky team in the top 10 might be pretty pissed with this pick in a couple years. I would pick Jordan if available though because he does have the most skills out of the three, and watching him since his senior year I KNOW he has the ability.

If we are thinking about the players you like we might as well look to trade down ourselves because it would be dumb to draft Arthur, or McGee at 12th. Jordan on the other hand on potential alone is worth a top 10.

Randolph meh... I know he's probably going to go top 10 but I don't think he's worth it. I am weary of guys playing for crappy schools (colleges) that come out of nowhere. I have heard of Randolph through Rivals.com when flipping through the high school players, but that's it. He wasn't sought after by major D1 schools, and had a low recruiting score. Even the LSU fans said he wasn't ready for the NBA, but from what he has shown at LSU some NBA team will take him in the top ten.. GMs like Petrie wont though, because he tends to play it a bit safer than a Randolph pick would be.

The point of the post though was that I was saying the Clippers are in a position to give up their pick being that a top 2 PG is not going to be available at 6th, and they shouldn't waste that 6th on Westbrook, or Augustin. So what are their choices? Move down a bit and draft for a team like the Kings, or the Bulls (or a couple others that are around 10-15). I was using Love as an example.. I don't even think I would do that trade unless I was trying to streamline the team and get rid of players who don't fit. Sometimes overloading a team with talent isn't as good as having a couple really good players and the rest of the team role players.

I know this is probably going to turn into a Arthur < Love or Arthur > Love post again lol.. I just don't want to go there again. We both know how each other feels about potential/raw vs. skill.