Amick blog: Moving Miller Not Easy

[nbrans]

Someone tell Sam that NBA players can't "restructure" their deals, according to the CBA. Yay Bee NBA coverage!

Moving Miller not easy

Question: Sam, if the Kings are truly to transition to a youth phase, don't they need to get rid of the biggest contract burdens? Will it be possible to move Brad Miller and/or Kenny Thomas, or are we pretty much stuck to ride it out with them?
Chris J., Sacramento

Answer: I don't see how they move Brad, who has three seasons and around $34 million left on his deal. Not only has his game taken a plunge, but he spent much of last season dealing with foot problems that just wouldn't go away.

The Kings' hope is that Spencer Hawes develops quickly, taking over the center spot so Brad can play some power forward the way he did when Vlade Divac was here. Those were his best years.

Now, Kenny is a little different. He's owed nearly $24 million for the next three seasons, but he has an early termination option after this season that - if exercised - would make him an unrestricted free agent. So if the Kings can't trade him before then, and depending how this season goes, I could see Kenny opting out just to get in a better situation. Even before then, though, I wonder if he wouldn't be willing to restructure his current deal just to get moved.

The setup with Kenny and Shareef Abdur-Rahim sharing time hasn't made either player happy, and they could have even more minutes taken away this season if new coach Reggie Theus gives the youngsters some run.

- Sam Amick

http://www.sacbee.com/static/weblogs/sports/kings/archives/2007_07.html

 

[gunks]

The setup with Kenny and Shareef Abdur-Rahim sharing time hasn't made either player happy, and they could have even more minutes taken away this season if new coach Reggie Theus gives the youngsters some run.

- Sam Amick

Now that would just be a lil slice of heaven...Less PT for Reef and KT. Couldnt get much better then that.

 

[SDKing]

Someone tell Sam that NBA players can't "restructure" their deals, according to the CBA. Yay Bee NBA coverage!

Moving Miller not easy

Question: Sam, if the Kings are truly to transition to a youth phase, don't they need to get rid of the biggest contract burdens? Will it be possible to move Brad Miller and/or Kenny Thomas, or are we pretty much stuck to ride it out with them?
Chris J., Sacramento

Answer: I don't see how they move Brad, who has three seasons and around $34 million left on his deal. Not only has his game taken a plunge, but he spent much of last season dealing with foot problems that just wouldn't go away.

The Kings' hope is that Spencer Hawes develops quickly, taking over the center spot so Brad can play some power forward the way he did when Vlade Divac was here. Those were his best years.

Now, Kenny is a little different. He's owed nearly $24 million for the next three seasons, but he has an early termination option after this season that - if exercised - would make him an unrestricted free agent. So if the Kings can't trade him before then, and depending how this season goes, I could see Kenny opting out just to get in a better situation. Even before then, though, I wonder if he wouldn't be willing to restructure his current deal just to get moved.

The setup with Kenny and Shareef Abdur-Rahim sharing time hasn't made either player happy, and they could have even more minutes taken away this season if new coach Reggie Theus gives the youngsters some run.

- Sam Amick

http://www.sacbee.com/static/weblogs/sports/kings/archives/2007_07.html

This is what a lot of us have been hoping for some time. It's not ideal, but it's probably better

 

[yaboy]

This is what a lot of us have been hoping for some time. It's not ideal, but it's probably better

I hope not!!! If Hawes is gonna start then a player like Justin Williams or somebody that can play defense has to play next to him.

Im against having one soft big starting on our lineup and people want both soft bigs to start?? We can only play one non defensive soft big in our front court otherwise teams would be able to score about 100 points in the paint every night.

 

[SDKing]

moving Brad to the 4 is what I was talking about. It didn't have anything to do with who's playing center

 

[HndsmCelt]

Sam must have a team of monkys helping him wiht analysis and research.

 

[Widowmaker2k]

The Kings' hope is that Spencer Hawes develops quickly, taking over the center spot so Brad can play some power forward the way he did when Vlade Divac was here. Those were his best years.

- Sam Amick

http://www.sacbee.com/static/weblogs/sports/kings/archives/2007_07.html

When Brad Miller played PF, he was one of the slowest and least-athletic 4's in the league. He's now slower and less athletic than that. Good choice!

When Reggie said he wanted to play an uptempo offense, I hope by "up-tempo," he meant "ice-berg style."

 

[yaboy]

Someone tell Sam that NBA players can't "restructure" their deals, according to the CBA. Yay Bee NBA coverage!

Moving Miller not easy

Question: Sam, if the Kings are truly to transition to a youth phase, don't they need to get rid of the biggest contract burdens? Will it be possible to move Brad Miller and/or Kenny Thomas, or are we pretty much stuck to ride it out with them?
Chris J., Sacramento

Answer: I don't see how they move Brad, who has three seasons and around $34 million left on his deal. Not only has his game taken a plunge, but he spent much of last season dealing with foot problems that just wouldn't go away.

The Kings' hope is that Spencer Hawes develops quickly, taking over the center spot so Brad can play some power forward the way he did when Vlade Divac was here. Those were his best years.

Now, Kenny is a little different. He's owed nearly $24 million for the next three seasons, but he has an early termination option after this season that - if exercised - would make him an unrestricted free agent. So if the Kings can't trade him before then, and depending how this season goes, I could see Kenny opting out just to get in a better situation. Even before then, though, I wonder if he wouldn't be willing to restructure his current deal just to get moved.

The setup with Kenny and Shareef Abdur-Rahim sharing time hasn't made either player happy, and they could have even more minutes taken away this season if new coach Reggie Theus gives the youngsters some run.

- Sam Amick

http://www.sacbee.com/static/weblogs...s/2007_07.html

moving Brad to the 4 is what I was talking about. It didn't have anything to do with who's playing center

I was referring to the statement in bold which is insisting that the Kings hope Spencer Hawes grows quickly so that he can take over the center spot and Brad can play next to him at the PF spot.

 

[VF21]

Amick really needs to start doing his homework.

52. Can existing contracts be renegotiated?

A contract for four or more seasons can be renegotiated after the third anniversary of its signing, extension, or renegotiation that increased any season's salary by more than 8%. Contracts for fewer than four seasons cannot be renegotiated. A contract cannot be renegotiated between March 1 and June 30 of any year. Only teams under the cap can renegotiate a contract, and the salary in the then-current season can be increased only to the extent that the team has room under the cap. Raises in subsequent years are limited to 10.5% of the salary in the first renegotiated season. The renegotiation may not contain a signing bonus. Contracts cannot be renegotiated downward (players can't take a "pay cut" in order to create salary cap room for the team) or to contain fewer seasons.
Again, a team over the salary cap cannot renegotiate a contract. An interesting case of this was Shawn Kemp with the Sonics. Kemp, who was unhappy with his contract and wanted to renegotiate, could not get a larger contract from the Sonics because they were over the cap. Kemp forced a trade to Cleveland, who was far enough under the cap at the time to give him the large contract he wanted. Kemp's contract was renegotiated soon after the trade.

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#52

And if Amick is thinking there's a team out there that might extend KT's contract out longer for equal or more money, he's truly delusional.

 

[uptempo-kings]

moving Brad to the 4 is what I was talking about. It didn't have anything to do with who's playing center

lol! i opened a thread for brad at the 4 spot, well this is good news plug miller back at the 4 where he can be productive, i knew the sac bee reads through our threads

 

[uptempo-kings]

damn thinking about it having b miller at 4 and hawes at 5 that would be a trip tWO similar players on offense the opposing defense would get lost like "WHO'S MILLER?" "WHO'S HAWES?" they can play pick and roll all game long and pass the ball back and forth to each other kewl! LoL!

 

[yaboy]

lol! i opened a thread for brad at the 4 spot, well this is good news plug miller back at the 4 where he can be productive, i knew the sac bee reads through our threads

Simply NO. Miller at the 4 spot is not going to all of a sudden make him "productive". We're talking about the Miller of a couple of years ago and now. Obviously he has aged since then, he's had a lot of injury problems lately, he's at least 2x slower and He has lost that passion that he had a couple of years ago and would rather finish his career in Indiana.

Im ok with rebuilding this team with Hawes as our center but WE MUST ADRESS OUR REBOUNDING/DEFENSIVE ASAP.

I can't stand the mindset of having big men that can pass and shoot but suck at everything else anymore.

This isn't a rant towards Hawes or Brad Miller. Im just sick and tired of watching other teams get athletic and better at rebounding and defense while we are still in a love with soft bigs.

This is what im hoping the starting lineup will look like hopefully next season and in the future.

Hawes
Williams
Garcia
Martin
Bibby

That roster has a nice balance to it.

 

[uptempo-kings]

Simply NO. Miller at the 4 spot is not going to all of a sudden make him "productive". We're talking about the Miller of a couple of years ago and now. Obviously he has aged since then, he's had a lot of injury problems lately, he's at least 2x slower and He has lost that passion that he had a couple of years ago and would rather finish his career in Indiana.

Im ok with rebuilding this team with Hawes as our center but WE MUST ADRESS OUR REBOUNDING/DEFENSIVE ASAP.

I can't stand the mindset of having big men that can pass and shoot but suck at everything else anymore.

This isn't a rant towards Hawes or Brad Miller. Im just sick and tired of watching other teams get athletic and better at rebounding and defense while we are still in a love with soft bigs.

This is what im hoping the starting lineup will look like hopefully next season and in the future.

Hawes
Williams
Garcia
Martin
Bibby

That roster has a nice balance to it.

man all that anger inside of you, it was just a suggestion bro! lol yea thats seems to be a nice line up to get us a better pick then #10 for the 08 draft, but you want brad out right? traded? well we need him to show some life, and as soon as he averages say 11.oo and 5.00rb a game teams will consider making a pass at him and hawes will be our new could pass and shoot but can't do nothing else center

 

[yaboy]

man all that anger inside of you, it was just a suggestion bro! lol yea thats seems to be a nice line up to get us a better pick then #10 for the 08 draft, but you want brad out right? traded? well we need him to show some life, and as soon as he averages say 11.oo and 5.00rb a game teams will consider making a pass at him and hawes will be our new could pass and shoot but can't do nothing else center

I dont think that lineup can do better then last season.
In the future yea but not next season because of how young/inexperienced that lineup would be. Plus we have a young coach and that it self with any lineup would take time to adjust.

And I forgot to mention that Bibby would be likely traded too so even a better chance that the lineup would get a better pick than #10.

 

[JoMama]

Aging and injuries may not be the main reason Brad's game has deteriorated. The guy just doesn't workout and work on his game in the offseason. No muscle and no low-post moves to add to his "aging" body. He's out there right now fishing or hunting or drinking beer with his buddies. Hasn't seen a weight-room since last April - or longer. That's maddening when you're paying him eight figures and getting a four-figure return.

One other thing - a starting lineup of Brad Miller, Hawes and Bibby has got to be the NBA's worst when it comes to defending. That's the recipe for 125 ppg allowed. Oh Lord, save us from impending doom.....

 

[Kingster]

Aging and injuries may not be the main reason Brad's game has deteriorated. The guy just doesn't workout and work on his game in the offseason. No muscle and no low-post moves to add to his "aging" body. He's out there right now fishing or hunting or drinking beer with his buddies. Hasn't seen a weight-room since last April - or longer. That's maddening when you're paying him eight figures and getting a four-figure return.

One other thing - a starting lineup of Brad Miller, Hawes and Bibby has got to be the NBA's worst when it comes to defending. That's the recipe for 125 ppg allowed. Oh Lord, save us from impending doom.....

Agreed on all counts.

 

[VF21]

Aging and injuries may not be the main reason Brad's game has deteriorated. The guy just doesn't workout and work on his game in the offseason. No muscle and no low-post moves to add to his "aging" body. He's out there right now fishing or hunting or drinking beer with his buddies. Hasn't seen a weight-room since last April - or longer. That's maddening when you're paying him eight figures and getting a four-figure return.

One other thing - a starting lineup of Brad Miller, Hawes and Bibby has got to be the NBA's worst when it comes to defending. That's the recipe for 125 ppg allowed. Oh Lord, save us from impending doom.....

Ah, but if we get really lucky and Bibby returns to form, Martin continues to improve and Artest balances his game, we could score - with a lot of help from the bench - 126 ppg...




















...once in a while.

 

[jcassio]

This is what im hoping the starting lineup will look like hopefully next season and in the future.
Hawes
Williams
Garcia
Martin
Bibby
That roster has a nice balance to it.

The only problem I have with this is Bibby. He's past his prime and his sorry defense affects the whole team. If we can't move him, I'd make him our 'instant offense' guy off the bench. If we can't move Miller, I'd play him behind Hawes and Williams. And Artest, we can definitely move him somewhere. No way I'd have him on this year's team. So yeah, play the youngsters, see what they can do when given the opportunity, and expect improvement as the year goes on. Just don't expect to make the playoffs this year.

 

[Warhawk]

The only problem I have with this is Bibby. He's past his prime and his sorry defense affects the whole team. If we can't move him, I'd make him our 'instant offense' guy off the bench. If we can't move Miller, I'd play him behind Hawes and Williams. And Artest, we can definitely move him somewhere. No way I'd have him on this year's team. So yeah, play the youngsters, see what they can do when given the opportunity, and expect improvement as the year goes on. Just don't expect to make the playoffs this year.

Um, in no way, shape or form do you want Bibby coming off the bench. If he isn't traded this summer, what offers will we get for a BENCH player with that contract?????

Sorry, Bibby and Miller are starters, like it or not, for as long as they are not injured and playing for the Kings. Maybe some slightly reduced minutes, but you can't relegate that salary to the bench just to develop youth. You need to find a trade or buyout option at that point.

 

[Fresno King]

I'd love to see Williams start at the 4 and Hawes at the 5.

Bibby
Martin
Hawes
Williams
Artest

Miller off the bench whether he likes it or not. He can pout about it all he wants, but if he's not putting in the work ethic to get in shape, he's going to get passed up by our hungrier, younger players in no time. And if he's going to come into camp out of shape AGAIN, I won't have any sympathy for him whatsoever. We're going young. He needs to come off the bench IMHO anyway.

BTW, Artest and Williams could combine to be quite a defensive tandem at the forward slots IF Artest sticks around for another season.

 

[Rockmeister]

Miller off the bench whether he likes it or not. He can pout about it all he wants, but if he's not putting in the work ethic to get in shape, he's going to get passed up by our hungrier, younger players in no time. And if he's going to come into camp out of shape AGAIN, I won't have any sympathy for him whatsoever. We're going young. He needs to come off the bench IMHO anyway.

As much as I would like to get rid of Miller, he is NOT the type that would pout if he came off the bench. He actually is a TEAM player.

 

[hiero]

As much as I would like to get rid of Miller, he is NOT the type that would pout if he came off the bench. He actually is a TEAM player.

he'd probably prefer not to play at all. He needs to save his energy for all that hunting he does. Seriously though I hope Justin Williams and Hawes, get major playing time, as in both of them start over the old washed up people we currently have.

 

[jcassio]

Sorry, Bibby and Miller are starters, like it or not, for as long as they are not injured and playing for the Kings. Maybe some slightly reduced minutes, but you can't relegate that salary to the bench just to develop youth. You need to find a trade or buyout option at that point.

Sorry, but I just don't agree. I think Bibby has the offensive skills to be a really effective sixth-man - much like Vinny Johnson was for the Pistons in their glory days. Of course, Bibby has been a starter all of his life, so this would obviously be an experiment. Lots of great players lose their starting roles as their careers wind down. It's a natural thing, and not a bad thing for those with the right attitude. It can even extend a player's career.

As far as Miller goes, I don't care if he's making $20 million a year... he just doesn't deserve 30+ minutes a game. How many times did we watch him last year play for 15-20 minutes without a single rebound? You have to help your team in some way! And if you think starting Miller increases his trade value, then it would follow that he'd have enough value for us to move him somewhere! (which we can't)

 

[Arena Skeptic]

The bad part about this is that I really don't see why KT would void the contract so he could become an unrestricted free-agent. That makes no sense.

If the Kings waive him, he just sits at home and collects his money.

If the opts out of the deal, he makes way, way less money than the contract stipulates. As in, He makes $0, because no team would sign him... Okay, maybe he makes the veteran's minimum somewhere, but the point is identical because that's still way less than he'd make by simply not opting out.

You're asking people to walk away from over $10 million, just because they can't stand the situation any more. Who in their right mind would do that? When Ralph Sampson could have retired because it was the right thing to do, he didn't; he kept getting his paycheck, because a contract is a contract.

None of us would do this differently. Well, except maybe Bonzi Wells.

 

[VF21]

From everything that's been said, KT wants to play. He just wants and believes he should be a bigger part of the picture of whichever team he's on. If the Kings offer him a buy-out, which of course is mere speculation at this point, there's reason to believe he would consider it.

And a buyout doesn't have to be that much less than the contract value. There is room for negotiation so it's definitely something worth discussing on a team fan message board during TDOS.

 

[Warhawk]

Sorry, but I just don't agree. I think Bibby has the offensive skills to be a really effective sixth-man - much like Vinny Johnson was for the Pistons in their glory days. Of course, Bibby has been a starter all of his life, so this would obviously be an experiment. Lots of great players lose their starting roles as their careers wind down. It's a natural thing, and not a bad thing for those with the right attitude. It can even extend a player's career.

As far as Miller goes, I don't care if he's making $20 million a year... he just doesn't deserve 30+ minutes a game. How many times did we watch him last year play for 15-20 minutes without a single rebound? You have to help your team in some way! And if you think starting Miller increases his trade value, then it would follow that he'd have enough value for us to move him somewhere! (which we can't)

A. Bibby isn't "winding down". He's just playing with a much worse team than before. He's still young and probably has a year or two left at least until he is on the downside. It's only his contract and a down year last year (a good portion of which due to injury) which makes him up for a trade. He's still a pretty good PG.

B. I said start, I never said the majority of the minutes. Didn't you notice last year when the regulars started and played fewer minutes to let the young guys get some burn? How tradable do you think he'd be as a bencher with his contract playing the same amount of minutes? Players have egos and want to be starters. I think they would take fewer minutes easier if they were still starting.