Zito's a Giant!!!

BigWaxer · Dec 28, 2006

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2710389

Very nice pickup, 18m a year! At least I have one thing to look forward to this year with them.

BawLa · Dec 28, 2006

This is a great day for us!!!!

Now our rotation looks much more well rounded. You stick a good/great pitcher in his prime into our lineup and it gets me smiling. Since 2001 he has had a 3.61 era and he virtually never misses a start. With all the injuries us Giants fans have had to endure, it is nice to have a guy like Zito. I think Molina will do a great job with our guys too.

Now our lineup looks like this:

Matt Morris: If he can return to form this year then we are in business.

Barry Zito: He's gonna give us a ton of innings with a relatively low era. At home I expect him to thrive. He ripped up the relatively stronger A.L. so he should tear through the N.L. West with ease and we could be talking Cy Young.

Matt Cain: The future is here now and this kid has no ceiling on how good he can get. He is good right now and I think many of us expect him to be great.

Noah Lowry: A potentially great pitcher, he has good stuff, especially for a lefty. Noah doesn't have to carry the team so if he can realize that, and get comfortable, then he can focus on consistency.

For the 5th starter it is up in the air. I really like Johnathan Sanchez, but I would rather see him in a closer role. He has that type of gusto about him and Benitez is a big ?. I wouldn't mind seeing the combination of Hennessey and one of the new young guys as the #5.

Starting Rotation:
Morris
Zito
Cain
Lowry
Hennessey/Acosta/Threets/Sanchez?

Heuge · Dec 28, 2006

The A's are the minor leagues of baseball. They develope great talent for teams who have money. Every offseason it is hard to be an A's fan.

Ryle · Dec 28, 2006

A great pick up but way overpaid.

Giants will still suck though.

SLAB · Dec 28, 2006

Im phyched!

That's about all I can add right now.

GO GIANTS!

nebs · Dec 28, 2006

WOO!

Zito, Cain, Lowry, Morris plus the young talented picthers...

Bonds money will be freed up next year as well.. so maybe another big signing next year? I like this move. It shows some ballzack by the Giants. LAst time they overpaid for a guy was in 1993.. Barry Bonds.

The team that won the World Series this year won like 5 more games than the Giants of this year. Not saying the Giants are gonna do that this year though.

SLAB · Dec 28, 2006

Zito and Cain is a beyond formidable 1-2 punch in a playoff series.

Then if Morris can regain form.

And if Lowry can regain form.

Im liking the sound of our starting staff!

Purple Reign · Dec 28, 2006

WOO HOO

I am pumped

Evenstar · Dec 28, 2006

thats freakign awesome! we replaced schmidt with a younger and more durable pitcher

pdxKingsFan · Dec 28, 2006

I think they really overpaid. But I'm glad he's a Giant and not a Yankee or Dodger

I didn't figure the Sox were interested so the Giants were the only chance I could have of rooting for him.

nebs · Dec 28, 2006

Overpaid? Maybe. There's no salary cap in baseball right? So what's
the problem? They have money. Would people prefer that ownership keeps that jack?

pdxKingsFan · Dec 28, 2006

Yes there is no salary cap. But its very disturbing to see salaries escalate out of control so that only a handful of teams are in the market for the major free agents. Even as a fan of two of the teams with the deepest pockets, I hate to see it.

BawLa · Dec 29, 2006

pdxKingsFan said:

Why? It's not your money. Well maybe it is if you go to the games and buy the beer and garlic fries. I don't understand how you can't be psyched up about Sabean opening the pocketbook. The west is in limbo right now. I'm just happy that Sabean is showing the fans that he is doing everything he can to get us to re-take control of our division. These last couple years have been rather pathetic. And the focus is not all on Bonds. Zito is a great addition, we have up and comers, we get a fan favorite back in Aurilia, we have a new coach who will work well with the young ones, we have only one real question mark in our closer and that job is up for grabs to a talented group of guys. This year looks promising...

At least more promising than the Kings' rebuild on the fly in basketball.

Plus I can't wait to hail Barry as the all time home run leader this year. History is going to take place whether people like it or not.

LPKingsFan · Dec 29, 2006

As a fan of both the A's and the Giants, I have to say this was probably the best-case scenario. (Of course Zito staying with the A's would have been nice, but wasn't going to happen).

Judging by the responses so far in thid thread, Breton's column today in the Bee was spot-on. Zito's getting a ton of money, and it's a huge risk that he'll last the entire contract. But ownership considers it a worthy investment if it re-energizes a fan base and save what would have been a mostly dissapointing offseason. So far, it looks like they may be right.

pdxKingsFan · Dec 29, 2006

BawLa said:

Again, I am not saying I'm not glad the Giants are willing to spend to get top players what I am saying is that I don't like the trend. It is killing the competitiveness of the league as there are a handful of teams that can't afford to pay players these astranomical salaries and will never be competitive.

Aside from that I am not sold on the notion that Zito has 7 good years left in him. Nor am I sold on the notion that he is worth the biggest contract for a pitcher in baseball history. Based solely on those two facts I do believe the Giants overpaid to get him. If the results pan out I'll be glad they did.

nebs · Dec 29, 2006

pdxKingsFan said:

Didn't the Marlins win the world series a few years ago with the lowest team salary in the league? I'm not sure but I know it was low.

As far as Zito.. I wouldn't be surprised if he plays great through this contract and gets another after. He seems, so far, "knock on wood" to be on the same path as the Greg Maddux, Roger Clemons path in terms of health and longevity. It's possible he could be pitching in 15 years still.

pdxKingsFan · Dec 29, 2006

The Marlins have won the series twice and immediately turned around and dumped the entire core of their winning teams. There are a few other small market teams that are semi competitive because they have great GMs and farm systems but as soon as their young players develop they go get paid. The A's fall into that category.

But you also have a whole group of teams that are in small or struggling markets that have no interest in paying for quality players or putting a good product on the field.

Something has to change, I don't really care what it is, contraction would be equally fine with me as would a salary cap.

nebs · Dec 29, 2006

I know what you're saying and I don't like it much either. The A's and Marlins are basically farm teams for the Yankees of the world. The little guys may luck out and land a title once in a while before being dismantled. Meanwhile the Yanks and Sox are hording eveything in their sights.

Odoylerules · Dec 30, 2006

The problem is, teams like KC, Pittsburgh, etc cannot compete. Yeah sure, you get exceptions like Minnesota and Oakland get in the playoffs every once in a while, but they (especially Oakland) have to do it quick with draft picks and young players, and then watch as the NY/Boston/Chi/LA cartel picks off the good ones. Parity such as in the NFL would be so much better....

Sabean is a fool. Always has been. If Zito is worth 125 mil, then Santana or Carpenter better be worth 250. The guy eats innings. So did Livan Hernandez. The guy had a couple good years. Now you get a 3-4 ERA, and a 1.4 WHIP every season. Not to mention the fact that Oakland pitchers of Zito's generation don't exactly always excel when rolling to the NL (see Mulder and Hudson). Yeah, I know its injuries.....a little weird that players leave Oakland and suddenly drop off their production, and start having injury problems......maybe its the coaching- or maybe its the fact that the whole entire locker room is a BALCO supplement house.

You coulda made a better effort at Soriano, who the Giants need more. Instead, you overpaid (the largest pitcher contract in history) for a guy who if his curveball isnt working....gets DESTROYED.

And who cares if Rich Aurilia is a fan favorite??? The guy is a washed up bum who juiced for a couple years, and now got bailed out with a contract back home. Dave Roberts? There's a reason why he's a career pinch hitter....Nice youth movement Sabean....

Sure Zito is good. Sure he's an upgrade, and an anchor to the staff. But with a weak offense that's centerpiece is a gimpy 40+ outfielder, and absolutely NO closer.....monies could've been spent better elsewhere.

Let's remember. This is the same GM that absolutely CANNOT draft and develop talent, and the same guy who sent Bonser, Nathan, and Liriano out for Pierzinski. NICE.

Sabean sucks, and always has. The Giants will once again be mediocre, and looking to the following year to compete. Unfortunately, now they have a massive contract to deal with. We'll see how well a guy that only plays every fifth day earns that jack.

At least more promising than the Kings' rebuild on the fly in basketball.

Plus I can't wait to hail Barry as the all time home run leader this year. History is going to take place whether people like it or not.[/quote]

SLAB · Dec 30, 2006

Odoylerules said:

Difference.

Zito = Cy Young Winner
Mulder/Hudson = not

Soriano's production will fall off DRASTICALLY as the contract goes on...Zito being a finesse pitcher won't get as hampered by age...If there was a 25 year old superstud on the market, I would rather have him, but not what was available this year.

Aurilia's 2005: 300, 23HR's, 70rbi....If that's washed up, I want to know what a good season for him was.

Dave Roberts: Semi agreed, but he's better than either Finley or Winn, and gives a huge need in speed.

Closer market was weak, and the position free agents weren'e the best of choices.

Talent? Lincecum, Lowry, Sanchez, Correia, and the other young arms would like to question that one...Position talent, I would agree, hoeever.

Sabean bashers are the same...He does somethig good, ala sign Zito, and he gets bashed for overspending...He doesn't do anything, he gets bashed because he doesn't do anything.

Nice.

]

BawLa · Dec 31, 2006

pdxKingsFan said:

$126 million for seven years, especially for a pitcher, is rather huge. I agree with you there. But you have to look at the nature of this year to judge. You don't compare $126 million of 2006 to $126 million of 2001. Look at some of the other contracts this year. This rising inflation is due to the obsession that GM's have with buying talent. And if you have money, then why not. We needed an experienced starter to replace Schmidt and Zito/his agent played it right.

No matter if you like it or not at the beginning of the season there will be no heat on Sabean. There won't even be much on Bochy because it is his first year. Sabean is putting this in the hands of young arms and an experienced lineup. And in the west, I think we will do just fine. In fact, despite the last two years, I think a lot of Giant fans have high expectations for this year.

There are still questions to be answered:

Will Morris return to form and make an awesome #2?
Will Cain continue his phenom story?
Will Lowry stay healthy and consistent?
Can our bullpen muster up what needs to get done?
Will Bonds be Bonds or an old man?
Will Molina be a good enough replacement for Matheney?
Can Klesko stay healthy?
Will Durham continue ripping it up?
Will Pedro ever learn how to hit off-speed pitches?
Can Winn be the player we first saw in a Giants uni?

BawLa · Dec 31, 2006

SLAB said:

Nice post SLAB.

But you shouldn't waste your time on the haters of the world. If you do then you won't have enough time for YOU. Come cheer with me when the Giants win the division and the pennant. Meanwhile the haters will be sitting there hating whatever pathetic team they root for.

pdxKingsFan · Dec 31, 2006

BawLa said:

Its the nature of this year that's whats really bugging me. And Zito is just the latest example. It seemed like when A-Rod and Manny signed those megadeals everyone realized things were out of control and cooled off until this season where guys like Alex Gonzalez are getting big deals. Now all the sudden Manny's deal isn't so bad and A-Rod's is almost reasonable.

BigWaxer · Dec 31, 2006

PDX/ODOYLE nothing we can control with the contracts. Thats what is making the MLB less attracitve to the public. I would suspect / hope one day it will turn around.

Zito does make the Giants better
I don't expect him to be here the entire 7 years
He does have a no-trade clause... which is the one thing I don't like.

Sabean and I said it before is almost like Petrie... he loves the vets, the older players the better for him. I am not sure he is a bad GM but I will say he does not develop talent.

LETS go to Woodland... My HS town... Torcota Drafted in the first round and is horrible. He doesn't develop the farm like BEANIE.. but, and lets be honest ole billy is the best at it, maybe besides FL and the Yanks.

We have no real farm system, which bothers me the most. After this year HOPEFULLY Bonds goes, Zito will have a decent year I think, but we need a threat, I think Sabs screwed up when we didn't get vlad. If your spending 120+ for Zito, just imagine how much vlad would help now if you offered that a few years ago to him?

JSin · Dec 31, 2006

Odoylerules said:

You can't complain that the guy can't draft and develoip talent and in the same sentence complain that the guy is trading those guys (who you say are not good and/or developed). Pick one side to complain about at a time. Otherwise your contradicting yourself.

Odoylerules · Jan 1, 2007

Yeah. What difference does that make exactly? 5 years ago? ok. I'd still rather have Mulder. Hey, Gagne and Randy Johnson also won the Cy Young around that time. Let's sign them to HUGE contracts.

I know, one's a reliever with injuries, and the other is old. Point is, winning a Cy Young has NO bearing on future performance, and shouldnt even be brought up. If you're arguing that we paid for that Cy Young in the contract, then you're making my point even stronger that Sabean is a buffoon.

Really? And you base the Soriano comment on what, your tea leaves? The guy hit 46 jacks with 41 stolen bases, and can play the infield if you need him to. And he's 30 years old. Please share the basis for your comment that this guy's production will fall off "DRASTICALLY".

Zito is a finesse pitcher who wont be hampered by age? You mean like Roger Clemens or Randy Johnson? Everyone gets hampered by age....here's the difference:

Without his curveball, Barry Zito is a worthless 4th to 5th starter. When he doesnt have his curve, he gets DESTROYED. I'm not sure if you've ever actually played the game of baseball, but when you throw a curveball, especially Zito's, you have to snap the ball. This created tension is the wrist, the shoulder, and most importantly: the elbow. Also, as age sets in, your snap ability decreases, generally.

Of course, most of what I said in that previous paragraph is what I THINK will happen in the future, which is pointless. How bout we look at what has BEEN happening, and that's a guy who's just over .500 with an ERA at 3 and a half. OOOOOH, he eats innings though!! Let's get a RECORD contract for pitchers out there!!!

Yeah, and he hit 20 in his previous three seasons combined. And he's 36. And he's a HORRIBLE infielder as well. But let's forget about that. Its Sabean's youth movement!!!

Perhaps the free agent market was weak. That doesnt excuse throwing a ridiculous amount of money at a player, regardless of how good, only plays every 5 days. Quick: name the two other pitchers who signed 100 million dollar contracts.....

Kevin Brown
Mike Hampton

That worked out well, huh?

Hitters are better long term investments than pitchers. Always will be.

How many have made an all-star team? How many (other than Lowry) have actually had a significant on-field contribution as of yet? The barn is filled with "ooh, good potential guys", but for a guy who has been the GM for more than a decade, you're only bringing up young guys who's future is uncertain. Remember, the same thing was said once upon a time about guys like Jerome Williams and Kurt Ainsworth. Remember them? They were also the next big thing.

And I didnt finish my point in the last post, which is my fault. The few guys that have actually made a contribution (like a Liriano and especially Nathan), Sabean trades for nothing. Nice job Sabes....

I don't know where throwing out a Brinks truck of cash at an above-average junkballer is considered "good", but Ok. Isiah Thomas can spend money too, but I'm not ready to praise him because he "did something". Brian Sabean simply has a long, drawn out history of making horrible moves, not being able to grow (and keep) talent, and riding the coattails of Barry Bonds.

I also love some of the comments in this thread talking about "haters".....I am a lifelong Giants fan, and live and die with this team every year. But I am not a lemming, and can't just sit back while the GM continues to be an embarassment. If some of you want to turn a blind eye, and just scream out "GO GIANTS" regardless of what happens, or without an eye to the future, God Bless you.

I wish I could be ignorant. Its a heck of a lot less stressful.

fansinceday1 · Jan 1, 2007

As an A's fan I am glad zito went to the Giants. The Giants get screwed and the A's lose another average pitcher. As has been previously pointed out, if Zito is off, if his curve ball isnt hitting, he gets hammered. He will give up 5-7 runs in a hurry. There is no way in h#ll he is worth $126 million.

Last year Zito told Jim Rome that he probably wouldnt go to a National League team because he cannot hit a baseball at all. Enjoy.

diggining · Jan 2, 2007

As a Giants fan, I have mixed feelings about this deal. I love the fact that the ownership is willing to spend the money to get one of the most highly sought-after free agents of this offseason, but the fact is that one the best free agents available this off-season is a durable player who unfortunately will be above average (mid-to-high 3's ERA) but not elite. Zito was elite, 3, 4 years ago, but not anymore. I'd say over the next 3-4 years, Cain will be better than Zito, Lowry could potentially be comparable, and Lincecum might be better when (as long as he keeps up his progress) he joins the rotation 2 years from now (assuming the Giants follow the same blueprint they have used to bring up/develop Lowry/Cain/Sanchez each of the last 3 seasons). Nonetheless, this move really shores up the Giants rotation, and gives them more bargaining chip if they do choose to shop Lowry, who as a decent and cheap lefty should have a lot of value in the trade market.

That said, I disagree with those who argue that pitchers are worth less because they don't play every day. Relief pitchers don't make as much of an impact as hitters, but starting pitchers actually make more of an overall impact, I think--obviously, the impact they make when they do pitch is much greater than any hitter in that particular game. So if I had a choice, I would have used my $$ to sign a top starter than a hitter.

The Giants may not look very good in the position-players department, with no stars (except Bonds), a few decent veterans, and unfortunately very few promising prospects coming up (those who can hit can't field, and those who have speed can't hit), but the starting rotation should keep them competitive for years to come.

fansinceday1 · Jan 2, 2007

I just find it hard to believe that ANYONE would pay a pitcher who has only had one 20+ win season in 6 years $126 million.

W - L
7-4 2000
17-8 2001
23-5 2002
14-12 2003
11-11 2004
14-13 2005
16-10 2006

How bout postseason pitching?

2000 ALDS, loss.
2001 ALDS, loss.
2002 ALDS, loss.
2003 ALDS, loss.
2006 ALDS, win.
ALCS, loss. ERA in this most recent loss? 12.27.

Odoylerules · Jan 3, 2007

fansinceday1 said:

I just find it hard to believe that ANYONE would pay a pitcher who has only had one 20+ win season in 6 years $126 million.

W - L
7-4 2000
17-8 2001
23-5 2002
14-12 2003
11-11 2004
14-13 2005
16-10 2006

How bout postseason pitching?

2000 ALDS, loss.
2001 ALDS, loss.
2002 ALDS, loss.
2003 ALDS, loss.
2006 ALDS, win.
ALCS, loss. ERA in this most recent loss? 12.27.

Great point right there.

Zito's a Giant!!!

Starter

Starter

Starter

Starter

Hall of Famer

Starter

Hall of Famer

Starter

Starter

So Ordinary That It's Truly Quite Extraordinary

Starter

So Ordinary That It's Truly Quite Extraordinary

Starter

All-Star

So Ordinary That It's Truly Quite Extraordinary

Starter

So Ordinary That It's Truly Quite Extraordinary

Starter

Prospect

Hall of Famer

Starter

Starter

So Ordinary That It's Truly Quite Extraordinary

Starter

Bench

Prospect

Starter

Bench

Starter

Prospect