Wie

[BigWaxer]

Not sure how to put this, its about Wie and her golfing. My main problem myself is putting a sports player down that #1 is a kid and not in the real world yet.

She left yet another Male tourney. What does everyone think about her?

Myself, I think she may become one of the best golfers around, but she needs to take baby steps. Win at the LPGA level first.

She walked off and basically quit today. Shows here age IMO but hard to knock her. I am confused about my opinions of her. Just curious to what others think.

 

[Arco Arena]

Well in all fairness she had to leave due to heat exhuastion..and was carted off in an ambulance (though it should have been pretty avoidable in my opinion in something like golf.. bring a fan/water/cooler/etc.etc!)

But yeah anyways, it really bugs me that the media gives her so much hype and attention when she hasn't won anything yet. And I also think it is pretty arrogant of her to be doing the male tournaments when she hasn't even won anything in the lpga. Though it certainly makes headlines..

 

[BigWaxer]

Well the heat thing I think was an excuse but with that said she is going to one day be in the final 2 her and Tiger at the US open. That would be so cool just to see that. That would be the sports story of the year and will show what barriers have been broken down not just sports but in our society.

 

[6th]

I think she is a very talented golfer. I also think that her father wants her to be the 1st to make the cut on the men's tour. If she does not make the cut, she cannot earn anything. She is not dominating the women's tour (which I think she could someday). So, how is she earning enough to keep competing.

Remember, she is still just a teenager and daddy makes the decisions, I'll bet.

Daddy, let her mature and dominate the women's tour first. Then let her play with the big boys.

 

[BigWaxer]

Well she is probably making a ton through Nike.

I agree 6th and I wonder how much influence her dad has on her. Would like to see her dominate at the LPGA level first.

But I understand if her ultimate goal is to not only make the cut but win a PGA event. She wants to play with the best and I don't fault her for that.

BTW can a mod change my title to just WIE? I don't want anyone getting upset my title isn't to make fun of her and for some reason I always think of that when I talk about her. I am sick in the head!

 

[pdxKingsFan]

I think all the hype is a bit premature but then again Tiger got the hype for years and then eventually backed it up. A lot of pressure is being put on her though not only to succeed on the women's level but to cross over into the men's arena and I'm not so sure that's the best thing. But then again all that hype and exposure leads to endorsements which should guarantee her winding up one of the richest female athletes ever so maybe it is in her best interest afterall.

 

[Rockmeister]

Not sure how to put this, its about Wie and her golfing. My main problem myself is putting a sports player down that #1 is a kid and not in the real world yet.

She left yet another Male tourney. What does everyone think about her?

Myself, I think she may become one of the best golfers around, but she needs to take baby steps. Win at the LPGA level first.

She walked off and basically quit today. Shows here age IMO but hard to knock her. I am confused about my opinions of her. Just curious to what others think.

Wie did not leave "another" Male Tourney. If I recall, this is her FIRST tourney that she has withdrawn. I do agree with you that she needs to win an LPGA then work herself up to the men's level. For your information, she did not "basically quit". She was taken by ambulance because she had stomach pains, breathing problems, nausea, and dizziness. I don't think that qualifies as she basically quitting.

 

[Rockmeister]

But yeah anyways, it really bugs me that the media gives her so much hype and attention when she hasn't won anything yet. And I also think it is pretty arrogant of her to be doing the male tournaments when she hasn't even won anything in the lpga. Though it certainly makes headlines..

I don't think she is arrogant at all. NIKE is the one that sponsors her, therefore, I think its them that tells her to play in these tournaments.

Remember, she is still just a teenager and daddy makes the decisions, I'll bet.

To be honest I'm not so sure her dad makes the decision. I really feel since NIKE sponsors her, they are the ones that tell her what tournaments to participate in.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Its probably a combination between whoever her management is, her parents and Nike. Nike surely pays her more money if she enters a men's tournament but they aren't the decision makers.

 

[Rockmeister]

Its probably a combination between whoever her management is, her parents and Nike. Nike surely pays her more money if she enters a men's tournament but they aren't the decision makers.

I think NIKE has more control than we all think.

 

[BigWaxer]

Wie did not leave "another" Male Tourney. If I recall, this is her FIRST tourney that she has withdrawn. I do agree with you that she needs to win an LPGA then work herself up to the men's level. For your information, she did not "basically quit". She was taken by ambulance because she had stomach pains, breathing problems, nausea, and dizziness. I don't think that qualifies as she basically quitting.

I know rock... and not to bag on her because I really hope she wins in the PGA - I am on her side.

Your right this is the first one she has withdrawn from that I recall but and this is a total general statement. Everytime I see her it's something. She needs to start winning. Not for me LOL ... But at some point the media is going to turn and no longer give her a free pass.

I also agree and bet Nike, her dad has a lot to do with some of the pressure. I admire any person let alone a 16 yr old that can handle what she goes through. Lot of pressure to put on a kid.

 

[Ryle]

I admire any person let alone a 16 yr old that can handle what she goes through. Lot of pressure to put on a kid.

She's only 16......cut her a little slack people. She was born in Friggin' 1990 .

 

[Sac.Kings]

She should try to win at the LPGA level before she hangs with the likes of Woods and Singh. I'm not saying she can't, but sometimes rushing into things can have a negative impact.

 

[fishstick05]

She's only 16......cut her a little slack people. She was born in Friggin' 1990 .

October 11, 1989
Only reason I know this is because it happens to be the exact date of one of my relative's birthdays.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

She's only 16......cut her a little slack people...

I find this ironic coming from you.

If she feels like she's old enough to play against male professionals, then she's old enough to deal with every bit of the criticism.

 

[uolj]

Funny thing is that I haven't really heard any real criticism of her, only people/articles talking about the criticism. I can't think of anything substantial that could be said that would qualify anyway.

 

[VF21]

I simply cannot understand why anyone would think a 16-year-old girl should be competing in a PGA event.

Tiger Woods came up through the juniors. He EARNED his way onto the PGA. I think the dog and pony show stuff about Wie and any other gimmick athlete in an event they clearly aren't qualified to enter is ludicrous.

If this young woman wants to compete in her chosen sport, let her do it the way everyone else does. There are eminently more qualified women in the LPGA who should be given the right to compete with men in the PGA if that is going to become an issue. This is a slap in the face to them.

Send her back home and tell her to quit cutting in line.

 

[uolj]

Ahh... there it is. I don't understand any of your arguments, VF.

Why shouldn't a 16-year old girl be allowed to compete in a PGA event? Is it the age? If so, do you make the same arguments against the plethora of young tennis players? Is it the fact that she is female? Why should that prohibit her from playing in a tour meant for the best golfers?

Is it because she didn't qualify for her spot in these events? If so, then your argument is really against the sponsor's exemption system, not the golfers who use that system to their advantage, right?

Tiger Woods used sponsor's exemptions to play in tournaments before he turned pro just like Wie is doing. He no more "earned" his way into those events than Wie has.

There are eminently more qualified women in the LPGA that already do have the same right to use a sponsor's exemption to play in the PGA tour. The only one that is obviously more worthy than Wie is Annika Sorentstam, and she has already done the same thing. Wie tied for third in the women's U.S. Open major tournament just a few weeks ago, so you can't say that she is not already among the best players playing in the LPGA. Who else from the LPGA is being held back that is more qualified?

Perhaps you disagree with the decisions she has made in pursuing her career. That's fine. I myself probably would do things differently. However, your tone suggests she shouldn't have the right to make the choices she has made. And unfortunately, I don't see where your arguments back up that opinion.

 

[VF21]

Ah, and there's the argument I knew would come.

Why shouldn't a 16-year-old girl compete in a PGA event? Because she's NOT QUALIFIED. She's also not qualified to perform brain surgery. And yes, for the record, I would make the same argument against young tennis players.

Why bother to have qualifying or parameters or anything else? Why not just open every tournament up to whomever walks up and says they want to play.

Tiger Woods used sponsor exemptions after he was pretty well established as one of the BEST IN THE WORLD by playing in many tournaments against the top players in his class. Wie has no such credentials to back her up. She hasn't played anywhere near at the level Tiger achieved while still a junior. (And that includes allowing for the difference between men's and women's programs.)

I think I spoke my points pretty clearly the first time. If you feel differently, that's fine. I'm not going to continue to belabor the point because we'll probably never see eye to eye.

Peace.

 

[Rockmeister]

Ahh... there it is. I don't understand any of your arguments, VF.

Why shouldn't a 16-year old girl be allowed to compete in a PGA event? Is it the age? If so, do you make the same arguments against the plethora of young tennis players? Is it the fact that she is female? Why should that prohibit her from playing in a tour meant for the best golfers?

Is it because she didn't qualify for her spot in these events? If so, then your argument is really against the sponsor's exemption system, not the golfers who use that system to their advantage, right?

Tiger Woods used sponsor's exemptions to play in tournaments before he turned pro just like Wie is doing. He no more "earned" his way into those events than Wie has.

There are eminently more qualified women in the LPGA that already do have the same right to use a sponsor's exemption to play in the PGA tour. The only one that is obviously more worthy than Wie is Annika Sorentstam, and she has already done the same thing. Wie tied for third in the women's U.S. Open major tournament just a few weeks ago, so you can't say that she is not already among the best players playing in the LPGA. Who else from the LPGA is being held back that is more qualified?

Perhaps you disagree with the decisions she has made in pursuing her career. That's fine. I myself probably would do things differently. However, your tone suggests she shouldn't have the right to make the choices she has made. And unfortunately, I don't see where your arguments back up that opinion.

Very well said.

 

[uolj]

I think I spoke my points pretty clearly the first time. If you feel differently, that's fine. I'm not going to continue to belabor the point because we'll probably never see eye to eye.

Peace.

It always makes me laugh when you say that. Isn't that the point of a discussion? To give arguments, then have somebody address those arguments, and then you respond to their points? If you just wanted to post your opinion but not continue to discuss it that's fine. Although that is why we won't see eye to eye, because you'd prefer not to discuss it and so you can't influence my opinion and I can't influence yours. Again, I'm not criticizing your for making that decision. It's all good, I don't mind. Everybody has their own way of enjoying these message boards.



Of course, since you did actually respond to my post anyway, I'll respond to the points you made:

Why shouldn't a 16-year-old girl compete in a PGA event? Because she's NOT QUALIFIED. She's also not qualified to perform brain surgery. And yes, for the record, I would make the same argument against young tennis players.

Why bother to have qualifying or parameters or anything else? Why not just open every tournament up to whomever walks up and says they want to play.

Tiger Woods used sponsor exemptions after he was pretty well established as one of the BEST IN THE WORLD by playing in many tournaments against the top players in his class. Wie has no such credentials to back her up. She hasn't played anywhere near at the level Tiger achieved while still a junior. (And that includes allowing for the difference between men's and women's programs.)

Again, either the argument is that she's too young (similar to the argument against having high schoolers in the NBA draft), in which case you would equally criticize Chris Evert, or the argument is that she isn't qualified. Those are two separate issues.

I agree that she didn't qualify for these events through skill, but I would say that the problem there is the sponsor's exemption system taken advantage of by Sorenstam, Woods, and a bunch of crappy golfers who didn't qualify for these tournaments themselves. Woods might have been the best golfer to ever use a sponsor's exemption; many other high handicappers who are much worse than Wie have done so as well. Obviously you are exaggerating when you ask why not open it up to anyone (although technically it is open to everyone in the same way it is open to Wie). I just don't see where Wie or any of the others should be criticized for using the system in the way in which it was intended. Criticize the sponsor's exemption system and the PGA for allowing it, instead of singling out only one of the many people to take advantage of it.

 

[VF21]

First, we're not talking tennis AND if we were, we're still talking apples and oranges. Chris Evert never competed against Johnny Mac or Jimmy Connors. She competed in the women's programs, which is exactly what Wie should be doing.

I am saying Wie shouldn't have been a participant in a PGA event. I'm not pointing a finger of blame at her, at the PGA's sponsors exemption or the PGA. I'm simply saying she wasn't qualified, she shouldn't have been allowed to participate, and whomever decides to allow these things are merely doing it to exploit her.

I'm also saying that my standing on this issue is and has been consistent. The solution to this problem isn't to allow women to compete in men's tournaments IMHO. The real solution would be to raise the level of purse in the women's events. It's come a long way, but it's still got a long way to go. Women who want to jump ranks and compete in tournaments they clearly aren't qualified for should realize they're open to criticism. They're allowing themselves to be used by Nike and who knows who else and it doesn't do them much good.

Where is Wie? Did she make it? No, she didn't. And her reputation has suffered and probably her confidence and her future. We'll see at some point down the road.

I don't think people should get a pass into events until they're qualified for them. Wie didn't qualify for the PGA in any conceivable way. The idea that Nike is allowed to slip her in stinks. The idea her father would allow it to happen stinks even more.

Sponsor exemptions have not always been abused. Now, however, they seem to be about publicity and "show" more than the game.

I hope that makes sense. I had it typed, then read it again and added parts. Now it's probably more confusing than ever.

 

[VF21]

Oh, one more thing?

In reading your post again, it seems as though you think I should be able to swing you to my point of view or you swing me to yours. I don't subscribe to that idea.

There have to be differing opinions. If there weren't, life would cease to exist.

 

[uolj]

First, we're not talking tennis AND if we were, we're still talking apples and oranges. Chris Evert never competed against Johnny Mac or Jimmy Connors. She competed in the women's programs, which is exactly what Wie should be doing.

I am saying Wie shouldn't have been a participant in a PGA event. I'm not pointing a finger of blame at her, at the PGA's sponsors exemption or the PGA. I'm simply saying she wasn't qualified, she shouldn't have been allowed to participate, and whomever decides to allow these things are merely doing it to exploit her.

I'm also saying that my standing on this issue is and has been consistent. The solution to this problem isn't to allow women to compete in men's tournaments IMHO. The real solution would be to raise the level of purse in the women's events. It's come a long way, but it's still got a long way to go. Women who want to jump ranks and compete in tournaments they clearly aren't qualified for should realize they're open to criticism. They're allowing themselves to be used by Nike and who knows who else and it doesn't do them much good.

Where is Wie? Did she make it? No, she didn't. And her reputation has suffered and probably her confidence and her future. We'll see at some point down the road.

I don't think people should get a pass into events until they're qualified for them. Wie didn't qualify for the PGA in any conceivable way. The idea that Nike is allowed to slip her in stinks. The idea her father would allow it to happen stinks even more.

Sponsor exemptions have not always been abused. Now, however, they seem to be about publicity and "show" more than the game.

I hope that makes sense. I had it typed, then read it again and added parts. Now it's probably more confusing than ever.

That post is exactly why we discuss things. While you didn't change my mind, and I doubt that I changed yours, I at least have a better understanding of what your opinion is. The points you raised in this post actually do make sense to me, even if I disagree with them. That is why we don't give up immediately if we don't see eye to eye.

It sounds like you think that Wie should not play in the PGA specifically because she is a woman. I think that is a valid opinion, although I strongly disagree. You also seem to think she is being exploited. Again, a valid opinion. I think she is actually the one making savvy business decisions to market herself (although I agree that it is probably more her parents and handlers making those decisions). I personally am not a fan of that style, but I can live with it. I appreciate Jordan, James, Agassi, Woods, and others for their athletic abilities despite the way they market themselves.

I think that competing in the men's tournaments is doing Wie good, and she will benefit from it immensely. Sure Nike is along for the ride, and that sucks, but that's more of an indictment on the current culture of sports in America, and probably an interesting topic for another day...

 

[G_M]

Funny thing is that I haven't really heard any real criticism of her, only people/articles talking about the criticism. I can't think of anything substantial that could be said that would qualify anyway.

I would not criticize her. I think her father is doing a her a great disservice by pushing her to play in these PGA events. The only benefit I see for her is the exposure and susbesquent sponsor money that may follow.

As a golf fan of both the LPGA and PGA tours I would encourage her to play the LPGA tour.

The point of her playing the PGA tour is????

 

[uolj]

I would not criticize her. I think her father is doing a her a great disservice by pushing her to play in these PGA events. The only benefit I see for her is the exposure and susbesquent sponsor money that may follow.

As a golf fan of both the LPGA and PGA tours I would encourage her to play the LPGA tour.

The point of her playing the PGA tour is????

I agree in some respects. If I was advising her, I would want her to play more LPGA tournaments, and focus on winning there first. At the same time, I think taking advantage of the system to play in the PGA is good for her golf game if she can handle the attention and stress. Whether she can or not is still up in the air, although I haven't seen any indication that she cannot.

Playing against the tougher competition will most likely make her a tougher competitor wherever she ends up. More importantly, getting used to it now, rather than waiting until she is established on the LPGA, has benefits. I think her goal is to play against the best in the world regardless of gender. Playing on the PGA tour is controversial, but it is where the best players play. Getting used to the controversy now will make it easier for her in the future.

If Sorenstam had played in a bunch of men's tournaments earlier in her career, and if playing against the best in the world regardless of gender was something she was interested in, she could probably succeed on the PGA tour. I think it's quite possible that Wie will be able to do that in the future, and playing the PGA tournaments now will probably make that easier.

I think focusing on winning on the LPGA would be an even better goal, but I'm not the one doing the advising.

 

[G_M]

if she can handle the attention and stress.

I think that is the critical issue. I'm not sure how missing the cut helps your confidence. The reality is that Michelle Wie has to play almost perfectly just to make the cut on the PGA. That shouldn't be considered a slight when your talking about the best golfers in the world.

I would love to see her succeed on the LPGA. I think she can do for the LPGA what Tiger Woods did for the PGA tour.

 

[VF21]

I think that is the critical issue. I'm not sure how missing the cut helps your confidence. The reality is that Michelle Wie has to play almost perfectly just to make the cut on the PGA. That shouldn't be considered a slight when your talking about the best golfers in the world.

I would love to see her succeed on the LPGA. I think she can do for the LPGA what Tiger Woods did for the PGA tour.

Exactly. She's 16 years old.

If nothing else, the stories of MANY child actors should serve as a warning for people who want to shove their children (and yes, 16 is still a child) into the intensely competitive world of professional sports. Too much attention, too much stress, too much ... reality.

Thanks for saying what, in part, I was trying to express, G_M.

uolj - As far as her playing against the best in the world, I think she has to EARN that right. Her goal should be to prove herself worthy to compete at that level, IMHO, not to get put in as a dancing bear entrant.

And, to clarify, I'm not trying to demean her or her goals, etc. I'm simply trying to point out that whatever led to this ridiculous situation needs to be addressed. Wie is simply the symptom, not the disease.

 

[BigWaxer]

Is it because she didn't qualify for her spot in these events? If so, then your argument is really against the sponsor's exemption system, not the golfers who use that system to their advantage, right?

OH I missed the excitement here.

I agree with VF's points here. Couldn't have said it better myself. Let me know when she can win on the LPGA first. Don't really care about her age, she has more experience at the pro level then a lot of the 24 year olds.

 

[BigWaxer]

Also imagine if she actually won some LPGA majors. That would go a long way for her. Annika did similar and IMO is the best womans golfer out there.

What is Wie trying to prove? She cannot win at the LPGA how is she going to win at the PGA level?