Finals Game 6
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1) I dont think that is barely winning. I think that is having more desire than the opposing team. If a team wins all 82 games in a season, but wins each game by 1 point, would you say they barely were the top team but almost the bottom team?
2) this is an opinion here, and your entitled to yours. I personally think the refs did a good job in game 5, and if the calls were made in the 1st quarter, than nobody would say they were bad calls.
3) again an opinion. The Heat are a more talented team. The Heat lose this series without Walker, Payton, Mourning, and Williams.
And for some reason I think they still would have won even if Shaq didn't play
. Wade was the equalizer, and the supporting cast did what they were supposed to do: support. Riley built the team to support a superstar named Shaq, but it ended up being Wade instead. The Heat have their problems, they aren't perfect. But they played with more heart and enthusiasm and desire, and they got results. Honestly, the Mavericks were lackluster in the last three games. The only fiery guys were Terry and Dirk.
2) this is an opinion here, and your entitled to yours. I personally think the refs did a good job in game 5, and if the calls were made in the 1st quarter, than nobody would say they were bad calls.
3) again an opinion. The Heat are a more talented team. The Heat lose this series without Walker, Payton, Mourning, and Williams.
And for some reason I think they still would have won even if Shaq didn't play
. Wade was the equalizer, and the supporting cast did what they were supposed to do: support. Riley built the team to support a superstar named Shaq, but it ended up being Wade instead. The Heat have their problems, they aren't perfect. But they played with more heart and enthusiasm and desire, and they got results. Honestly, the Mavericks were lackluster in the last three games. The only fiery guys were Terry and Dirk.
but, i can't see how you can say they are more talented. besides wade, the rest of the guys are a bunch has-beens on the decline. i don't even know what you mean by "talent" in referring to the heat. For example, if GP wasn't so slow, he would probably still be very good. Does that mean he's talented?
I don't understand how any kings fan can root for Shaq. He insulted Sacramento, he insulted our team, he insulted everything about the Kings. HOW can you root for that? Shaq talked more crap than Kobe. You hate the lakers who aren't even very good any more THAT bad? I hate Shaq more than I hate the lakers.
Like it or not, the Miami Heat are now the reigning NBA champions. That, in and of itself, implies some talent. And those has-beens are each going to be sporting a pretty gaudy piece of bling to prove it.
Does that make them more talented? They complemented each other's strengths and weaknesses, they used their veteran experience AND they came away with the title. I'd say that's definitely "talent."
Where they the more talented team on the court? Maybe, maybe not. It doesn't matter. They put it together and got the job done.
Does that make them more talented? They complemented each other's strengths and weaknesses, they used their veteran experience AND they came away with the title. I'd say that's definitely "talent."
Where they the more talented team on the court? Maybe, maybe not. It doesn't matter. They put it together and got the job done.
And that's certainly your perogative. But some of us don't feel that way. At this point, it seems pretty clear that those who rooted for Miami aren't going to change and those who rooted for Dallas are still going to be upset.
Either way, it's now officially TDOS for the entire NBA.
Bring on the draft... and bring on the free agents!!!
Either way, it's now officially TDOS for the entire NBA.
Bring on the draft... and bring on the free agents!!!
I agree that those that live by the jumpshot die by the jumpshot, and the Mavs certainly (jump)shot themselves out of the game in the second half, especially in the fourth quarter when the Heat were in the penalty and the Mavs had tied the game --- they settled for three jumpers in a row, if I recall correctly, and didn't make one of them.
But I disagree that the better team won the title. I think the best player carried his team to the title, much like Shaq/Kobe carried their teams past the Kings. To me, this year Mavs team was much like the 2002 Kings in that they had so much depth. The one part I thought made the Mavs different was Dirk, who up to this round of the playoffs was playing like a superstar (I can't recall whether CWebb tore through the playoffs up to facing the Lakers off the top of my head, but I don't think he had a series like Dirk did against the Spurs).
But in the Finals, much like CWebb in the 2002 WCF, Dirk was only a star. He probably averaged 23 ppg and 11 rpg, which are extremely solid numbers, but they aren't superstar numbers on the biggest stage of his career. He wasn't completely at fault for the Mavs losing this title, but he has to bear the biggest burden as the best player on the team.
But I disagree that the better team won the title. I think the best player carried his team to the title, much like Shaq/Kobe carried their teams past the Kings. To me, this year Mavs team was much like the 2002 Kings in that they had so much depth. The one part I thought made the Mavs different was Dirk, who up to this round of the playoffs was playing like a superstar (I can't recall whether CWebb tore through the playoffs up to facing the Lakers off the top of my head, but I don't think he had a series like Dirk did against the Spurs).
But in the Finals, much like CWebb in the 2002 WCF, Dirk was only a star. He probably averaged 23 ppg and 11 rpg, which are extremely solid numbers, but they aren't superstar numbers on the biggest stage of his career. He wasn't completely at fault for the Mavs losing this title, but he has to bear the biggest burden as the best player on the team.
I hate the Lakers more than anything. I can't understand a Kings fan who feels any differently... but I can also understand a Kings fan that hates Shaq, he deserves it. I hate him too, but ask anyone on this board... my Laker hate runs deep, it's vast and unending. I LOVE that the Lakers look bad in all this, they said Miami would be in cap hell, they said Shaq wouldn't sacrifice and that even if he did he was too over the hill to get it done. Whether we hate it or not it doesn't change the truth of it. The truth is Kobe was replaced by Wade and now it's Shaq 1 Kobe 0 with maybe more to come. A title isn't just some arbitrary thing to be dismissed, Kings fans should no that better than anyone. The heat made a huge accomplishment tonight, all of them.
Because the Heat are the Heat. Until today they were nothing. We play them twice a year, have never played them in the playoffs and odds are pretty decent that we never will. The Lakers are a natural intrastate rivalry against a team with a long history of winning. We play them all the time and during our best years they routinely ended our season. When Shaq is gone remind me why I'll ever care about the Heat? If Shaq had been on any team but the Lakers why would I even care about Shaq? I lived in SoCal for 8 years and had to deal with constant heckling from Lakers fans. I've never even met a real Heat fan. Need I go on?
I don't know if the better team won the title. I think the team that played more like a team won. I hope that makes sense...
The Mavericks may have been the better team all year but they couldn't keep it together when it counted the most. The Heat, on the other hand, got prime time playoff performances when they needed them the most from not only the stars, but from Zo, Payton, Walker and Haslem. Aside from one errant pass and a couple of missed threes, JWill played solid basketball.
And at the end of the day, it just might have been that the main difference wasn't even in uniform. The wiley Riley simply outcoached the rookie Johnson.
The Mavericks may have been the better team all year but they couldn't keep it together when it counted the most. The Heat, on the other hand, got prime time playoff performances when they needed them the most from not only the stars, but from Zo, Payton, Walker and Haslem. Aside from one errant pass and a couple of missed threes, JWill played solid basketball.
And at the end of the day, it just might have been that the main difference wasn't even in uniform. The wiley Riley simply outcoached the rookie Johnson.
Probably true. Second best player for the Mavs tonight, Marquis Daniels, played only 18 minutes, and was the catalyst for the Mavs tying the game in the 4th quarter. He took one bad shot in the 4th (a three-pointer with the shot clock running down), and AJ pulled him from the game. His replacements didn't play poorly per se (although neither Stackhouse nor Josh Howard shot the ball well at all tonight), but I don't know if they played as well as Daniels had been playing.
ALL RIGHT MIAMI!!!!!!!!!!!
how the heck could any kings fans root for the mavs in this series??? yah i know shaq was a jerk when he was on the lakers, eh i guess i'm past that. he got smart and left LA, thus making him less evil in my mind. you know kobe squirmed on his couch watching this series.
seriously though, i can't even fathom the though of mark cuban hoisting the larry o'brien trophy. it makes me SICK. while shaq might be a first class a hole, he at least can back up the smack he talks. mark cuban whines and complains, sounds so childish. at least shaq had rings when he was mouthing off.
i can't root for punks like jason terry or jerry stackhouse. i'm not a dirk fan either.
i just can't stand the mavs, the thought of them winning the finals made me naseous. thank god i didn't have to deal with that.
it's hard not to root for a guy like alonzo mourning. his passion for the game is a great story. he had to overcome a LOT to get his ring, it's so nice to see his hard work pay off. seeing a young player like dwayne wade blossom before our eyes was also very enjoyable. the NBA has a bright future with dwayne and lebron leading the way, i can forsee the 2 of them engaging in some epic playoff series in the near future
congrats to the heat. i'm so happy the mavs lost!
how the heck could any kings fans root for the mavs in this series??? yah i know shaq was a jerk when he was on the lakers, eh i guess i'm past that. he got smart and left LA, thus making him less evil in my mind. you know kobe squirmed on his couch watching this series.
seriously though, i can't even fathom the though of mark cuban hoisting the larry o'brien trophy. it makes me SICK. while shaq might be a first class a hole, he at least can back up the smack he talks. mark cuban whines and complains, sounds so childish. at least shaq had rings when he was mouthing off.
i can't root for punks like jason terry or jerry stackhouse. i'm not a dirk fan either.
i just can't stand the mavs, the thought of them winning the finals made me naseous. thank god i didn't have to deal with that.
it's hard not to root for a guy like alonzo mourning. his passion for the game is a great story. he had to overcome a LOT to get his ring, it's so nice to see his hard work pay off. seeing a young player like dwayne wade blossom before our eyes was also very enjoyable. the NBA has a bright future with dwayne and lebron leading the way, i can forsee the 2 of them engaging in some epic playoff series in the near future
congrats to the heat. i'm so happy the mavs lost!
![T[MaC]](/data/avatars/m/1/1105.jpg?1377970461){kind=avatar}
Yeah I don't really think Kobe cares.
BTW I will give credit to the heat for game 6. I STILL think it should only be 3-3 right now but they actually won this game. They played with more effort/heart, they played smarter, they played better defense, etc.
IMO Avery kinda lost this game for the Mavs because they did really well with Daniels in the game but Daniels didn't even play half the game. IIRC Each time he went out they fell apart. The Mavs also took WAY too many 3s and none of them were falling. They settled for low percentage jump shots(the heat played good D though) like 3 pointers and they weren't falling. I thought the Mavs were pretty good at getting high percentage shots and not settling in the regular season and in the 3 rounds before this but I guess the pressure just got to them in this game. It makes me angry that Shaq won another title but oh well, neither of them were my favorite team and it doesn't make me poor or ill or anything like that so oh well.
BTW I will give credit to the heat for game 6. I STILL think it should only be 3-3 right now but they actually won this game. They played with more effort/heart, they played smarter, they played better defense, etc.
IMO Avery kinda lost this game for the Mavs because they did really well with Daniels in the game but Daniels didn't even play half the game. IIRC Each time he went out they fell apart. The Mavs also took WAY too many 3s and none of them were falling. They settled for low percentage jump shots(the heat played good D though) like 3 pointers and they weren't falling. I thought the Mavs were pretty good at getting high percentage shots and not settling in the regular season and in the 3 rounds before this but I guess the pressure just got to them in this game. It makes me angry that Shaq won another title but oh well, neither of them were my favorite team and it doesn't make me poor or ill or anything like that so oh well.
I just love moronic comments like this.
You did watch these Finals, right? Mourning often out played Shaq. An amazing 14pt per game doesn't deserve 30 million a season. Shaq was simply along for the ride. Wade, Posey, Walker, Haslem, Zo, and Williams had just as much impact or more as Shaq did.
Had LA kept Shaq how in the world do they get that type of talent around Kobe and Shaq? Between the two cap space was gone, they would only had Fox as trade bait, and the MLE to sign free agents.
Fisher left for a MAX MLE offer from Golden State. Something LA would have not matched. Payton clearly said he he would have not picked up his player option had Phil stayed. Fox was washed up.
So LA would have had,
PG ?
SG Kobe, Rush
SF George, Luke
PF Cook, Slava
C Shaq
Now you are honestly telling me you can build a championship team using the MLE and vet minimum with that?
LA knew what they were doing when they appeased Shaq and traded him after he DEMANDED to be traded.
You did watch these Finals, right? Mourning often out played Shaq. An amazing 14pt per game doesn't deserve 30 million a season. Shaq was simply along for the ride. Wade, Posey, Walker, Haslem, Zo, and Williams had just as much impact or more as Shaq did.
Had LA kept Shaq how in the world do they get that type of talent around Kobe and Shaq? Between the two cap space was gone, they would only had Fox as trade bait, and the MLE to sign free agents.
Fisher left for a MAX MLE offer from Golden State. Something LA would have not matched. Payton clearly said he he would have not picked up his player option had Phil stayed. Fox was washed up.
So LA would have had,
PG ?
SG Kobe, Rush
SF George, Luke
PF Cook, Slava
C Shaq
Now you are honestly telling me you can build a championship team using the MLE and vet minimum with that?
LA knew what they were doing when they appeased Shaq and traded him after he DEMANDED to be traded.
Surprising strategies, star turns among Finals lessons
Perhaps this is a snap judgment, but the Miami Heat strikes me as a one-year wonder. They deserve max credit for never giving up in this series -- let's remember the only stat that really matters from this series, which is that Miami was six minutes from going down 3-0 -- but you don't look at this team and say, "Hey, they'll be around for years." Yes, they have Dwyane Wade, but they got so many contributions from so many players (Alonzo Mourning, Gary Payton, Jason Williams, Antoine Walker) who may not be able to do it again, that I wouldn't necessarily pencil them in as favorites for 2006-07.
There is no question that as much as the Heat won this series, the Mavs blew it. Had Dallas been able to hold that lead in Game 3 in Miami, my guess is that the Mavericks would've coasted to a decisive fourth victory instead of becoming only the third team in NBA history to win the first two games and lose the series.
For this final five-pack of the season, let's take a look at the lasting impact of these Finals:
1. Zone defense
So there are the two NBA finalists, coached by hard-boiled guys like Pat Riley and Avery Johnson, playing zone late in the game. Unbelievable. Good teams always shred zones, the thinking goes, yet both coaches used that defense to exploit shaky outside shooting. Other coaches who are afraid to use zone even during the regular season no doubt took notice.
2. You can have some outside shooters ... just not everybody
Check this stat from Game 6: Miami's Walker and Williams combined to make only one-of-13 three-point shots and the Heat was 2 of 18 collectively. That sounds like a prescription for disaster. Yet Miami prevailed partly because so many Dallas players depended so much on the outside shot, which often goes awry in pressure situations, and, further, keeps you from getting to the free throw line. That was particularly the case for guard Jason Terry, who made only seven of 25 shots, the vast majority from outside, and only two of 11 treys, while not shooting one free throw. Sometime backcourt mate Jerry Stackhouse didn't make it to the line, either. In the last two games of the series, the Heat shot 86 free throws, the Mavs 48. That is hard to overcome.
3. A team can be built in a season as long as it peaks at the right time
Yes, Wade and Shaquille O'Neal went through a frustrating season together last year when injuries might've kept them from beating the Detroit Pistons and making the Finals. But to hear Shaq talk, you would think he and Flash (one of his nicknames for Wade) struggled for years to reach the top. Remember when conventional wisdom said that a core unit needs to learn together, grow up together and lose together before finally prevailing? But in a talent-diluted league that has expanded to 30 teams, it is possible to make a few offseason moves, struggle to win the conference (particularly the Eastern Conference) and get it done in the Finals.
One caveat to that: Having an experienced hand to mold it all together, such as Pat Riley's, has to be part of that win-quick formula.
4. The force of one man's will can never be discounted
I would feel better about Mourning finally earning a championship ring had he not so heartlessly screwed the New Jersey Nets, the first team to give him a chance to return after the onset of his kidney disease. But you can't deny that 'Zo is one tough-minded man. He was the best center in the game on Tuesday night, being almost as productive in 14 minutes (eight points, six rebounds, five blocked shots) as O'Neal (nine points, 12 rebounds, one block) was in 30.
5. Wade is as good as anybody
Right now -- we're talking about right now -- he's the best player in basketball. And it remains for someone (LeBron James? Kobe Bryant? Tim Duncan?) to come back and knock him off that perch. What Wade did in the final four games of the series can only be described, adjectivally, as ... I'm not going to say it. But the first part of the word is Jordan and the second is esque. Furthermore, Shaq should no longer be permitted to talk as if the Heat is his team and Wade is his sidekick. Shaq is the sidekick, albeit a large one, and Wade is the Alpha Male.
http://www.cnn.com/si/2006/writers/jack_mccallum/06/21/finals.legacies/index.html?cnn=yes
Perhaps this is a snap judgment, but the Miami Heat strikes me as a one-year wonder. They deserve max credit for never giving up in this series -- let's remember the only stat that really matters from this series, which is that Miami was six minutes from going down 3-0 -- but you don't look at this team and say, "Hey, they'll be around for years." Yes, they have Dwyane Wade, but they got so many contributions from so many players (Alonzo Mourning, Gary Payton, Jason Williams, Antoine Walker) who may not be able to do it again, that I wouldn't necessarily pencil them in as favorites for 2006-07.
There is no question that as much as the Heat won this series, the Mavs blew it. Had Dallas been able to hold that lead in Game 3 in Miami, my guess is that the Mavericks would've coasted to a decisive fourth victory instead of becoming only the third team in NBA history to win the first two games and lose the series.
For this final five-pack of the season, let's take a look at the lasting impact of these Finals:
1. Zone defense
So there are the two NBA finalists, coached by hard-boiled guys like Pat Riley and Avery Johnson, playing zone late in the game. Unbelievable. Good teams always shred zones, the thinking goes, yet both coaches used that defense to exploit shaky outside shooting. Other coaches who are afraid to use zone even during the regular season no doubt took notice.
2. You can have some outside shooters ... just not everybody
Check this stat from Game 6: Miami's Walker and Williams combined to make only one-of-13 three-point shots and the Heat was 2 of 18 collectively. That sounds like a prescription for disaster. Yet Miami prevailed partly because so many Dallas players depended so much on the outside shot, which often goes awry in pressure situations, and, further, keeps you from getting to the free throw line. That was particularly the case for guard Jason Terry, who made only seven of 25 shots, the vast majority from outside, and only two of 11 treys, while not shooting one free throw. Sometime backcourt mate Jerry Stackhouse didn't make it to the line, either. In the last two games of the series, the Heat shot 86 free throws, the Mavs 48. That is hard to overcome.
3. A team can be built in a season as long as it peaks at the right time
Yes, Wade and Shaquille O'Neal went through a frustrating season together last year when injuries might've kept them from beating the Detroit Pistons and making the Finals. But to hear Shaq talk, you would think he and Flash (one of his nicknames for Wade) struggled for years to reach the top. Remember when conventional wisdom said that a core unit needs to learn together, grow up together and lose together before finally prevailing? But in a talent-diluted league that has expanded to 30 teams, it is possible to make a few offseason moves, struggle to win the conference (particularly the Eastern Conference) and get it done in the Finals.
One caveat to that: Having an experienced hand to mold it all together, such as Pat Riley's, has to be part of that win-quick formula.
4. The force of one man's will can never be discounted
I would feel better about Mourning finally earning a championship ring had he not so heartlessly screwed the New Jersey Nets, the first team to give him a chance to return after the onset of his kidney disease. But you can't deny that 'Zo is one tough-minded man. He was the best center in the game on Tuesday night, being almost as productive in 14 minutes (eight points, six rebounds, five blocked shots) as O'Neal (nine points, 12 rebounds, one block) was in 30.
5. Wade is as good as anybody
Right now -- we're talking about right now -- he's the best player in basketball. And it remains for someone (LeBron James? Kobe Bryant? Tim Duncan?) to come back and knock him off that perch. What Wade did in the final four games of the series can only be described, adjectivally, as ... I'm not going to say it. But the first part of the word is Jordan and the second is esque. Furthermore, Shaq should no longer be permitted to talk as if the Heat is his team and Wade is his sidekick. Shaq is the sidekick, albeit a large one, and Wade is the Alpha Male.
http://www.cnn.com/si/2006/writers/jack_mccallum/06/21/finals.legacies/index.html?cnn=yes
