The Spirit of Tim Donaghy

D

dude12

Hall of Famer
#31
#31
I don’t think it’s hard to have a select few refs who will help”influence” the outcome of games. Doesn’t have to be all refs. I’m certain that in the notorious Lakers Kings playoff game the instructions were to get this to a game 7. Kings, IIRC, got a majority of the calls in that game but they sucked at FT shooting for that game and it cost us.

The refereeing in the Denver game was super bad, bad enough that it continues the thought that the games are influenced by refereeing. Looking at the Kings record with Ed Molloy working the games is kind of glaring.
 
fansinceday1

fansinceday1

Starter
#32
#32
Donaghy said in his interview that the NBA had a stable of company men and that the other refs knew if you needed something in particular, like extending a series, you would assign Dick Bavetta. Stern probably didn’t even have to tell him what he wanted.

if the NBA was legit, they would have people going over ref stats for/ against certain teams and they would have eliminated Malloy. Not only was he prone to not blowing the whistle for the kings, he was probably gonna give the benefit of the doubt to the nuggets. A legit league wouldn’t assign a ref like that to that particular game, cause it looks suspect.
 
Caccia

Caccia

Starter
#33
#33
fansinceday1 said:
Donaghy said in his interview that the NBA had a stable of company men and that the other refs knew if you needed something in particular, like extending a series, you would assign Dick Bavetta. Stern probably didn’t even have to tell him what he wanted.

if the NBA was legit, they would have people going over ref stats for/ against certain teams and they would have eliminated Malloy. Not only was he prone to not blowing the whistle for the kings, he was probably gonna give the benefit of the doubt to the nuggets. A legit league wouldn’t assign a ref like that to that particular game, cause it looks suspect.
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Wait, that make too much sense. Silver would never run an analytics chart like that.
 
A

admira1

Prospect
#34
#34
New Era said:
Tim Donaghy is a convicted felon douchebag who is desperately trying to find a way to make a buck and survive. Do you realize the level of conspiracy that it would take to have some sort of league mandate to referee crews about how to call a certain game? Also, why would there be some huge significance on a Nuggets-Kings regular season game?

The reality is the refs last night just collectively had a horrible game. They get graded on each decision they make so I seriously doubt they are happy with the amount of missed calls in that game. Is there a tendency for referees to favor certain superstars, home teams, or franchises? Yes, maybe, but to think it's some sort of secret orders from the NBA is crazy talk.
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Sure, in isolated incidents and one game results, it would be ridiculous to make these assumptions. But look at the stats posted above, look at the GAME you obviously didn't watch, look at Demar's history of FTA and his FTA since joining the Kings, I'd imagine look at Fox's also now that he's off the team. You can point to one game and call BS, but I point to the history of my eyeballs and the shared fan experience over the last 20 years, I know which I'm gonna believe.
 
N

New Era

Starter
#36
#36
admira1 said:
Sure, in isolated incidents and one game results, it would be ridiculous to make these assumptions. But look at the stats posted above, look at the GAME you obviously didn't watch, look at Demar's history of FTA and his FTA since joining the Kings, I'd imagine look at Fox's also now that he's off the team. You can point to one game and call BS, but I point to the history of my eyeballs and the shared fan experience over the last 20 years, I know which I'm gonna believe.
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What game did I "obviously" not watch? I watched the entire Denver game and stated here that it was a horrible night for that crew.
 
J

Joshyjosh31

Starter
#37
#37
fansinceday1 said:
Donaghy said in his interview that the NBA had a stable of company men and that the other refs knew if you needed something in particular, like extending a series, you would assign Dick Bavetta. Stern probably didn’t even have to tell him what he wanted.

if the NBA was legit, they would have people going over ref stats for/ against certain teams and they would have eliminated Malloy. Not only was he prone to not blowing the whistle for the kings, he was probably gonna give the benefit of the doubt to the nuggets. A legit league wouldn’t assign a ref like that to that particular game, cause it looks suspect.
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Who is that one ref that hates CP/Harden and they assign him in game 7 vs GSW
 
hrdboild

hrdboild

Moloch in whom I dream Angels!
Staff member
#40
#40
ESP47 said:
The censorship around criticizing the officiating is essentially proof that the NBA uses the officials to manipulate the outcome of the games.
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Yeah, it's not a good look. I guess they see this as defending their employees but it also reads as them silencing criticism in lieu of actually addressing it.
 
J

Jc121

Bench
#43
#43
Have the ownership tell the league not to schedule certain cheating referees and list them by names. They like to fine to protect and silence people. How about the fans treat certain referees like we do players we don’t like. What could they do to thousands of fans yelling the name and call them cheaters and say such and such is on the take all game.

That should cause concerns for their tv rating’s and be the talk of the nba news.
Players getting fined is money we pay.
 
E

ESP47

All-Star
#45
#45
I recall two separate times when Harden got sent to the line after being fouled before he could even attempt to fake that he was shooting. In both instances, his arms never even went vertical at all and he was awarded 4 FTs.

Keegan gets called for a blocking foul on a charge attempt against the Clips when he was set and then we see Payne do the exact same thing yesterday and get awarded the charge.

Zero consistency. The rules are so vague that the officials can just decide when the blow the whistle or overturn a call based on how profitable that team is for the NBA.
 
King Baller

King Baller

All-Star
#49
#49
New Era said:
Tim Donaghy is a convicted felon douchebag who is desperately trying to find a way to make a buck and survive. Do you realize the level of conspiracy that it would take to have some sort of league mandate to referee crews about how to call a certain game? Also, why would there be some huge significance on a Nuggets-Kings regular season game?

The reality is the refs last night just collectively had a horrible game. They get graded on each decision they make so I seriously doubt they are happy with the amount of missed calls in that game. Is there a tendency for referees to favor certain superstars, home teams, or franchises? Yes, maybe, but to think it's some sort of secret orders from the NBA is crazy talk.
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Its not some big conspiracy, for example. Just a few well placed people to turn a games outcome around. In the West with the teams so closely packed record wise, it only takes 2 or 3 W's becoming L's and the Clippers don't face OKC when they win the Play-in.
 
Vinny Basketballerino

Vinny Basketballerino

Starter
#50
#50
King Baller said:
Its not some big conspiracy, for example. Just a few well placed people to turn a games outcome around. In the West with the teams so closely packed record wise, it only takes 2 or 3 W's becoming L's and the Clippers don't face OKC when they win the Play-in.
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Yes, it's a straw man to paint it as some far-reaching conspiracy that everybody but the fans are in on. It's most likely exactly as Donaghy said, a few well-placed company men to get the job done when necessary. Not hard to believe or far fetched at all. We're talking tens of billions of dollars at stake. It'd be crazy if there WASN'T a little tweaking here or there. It's a business, folks.
 
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Insomniacal Fan

Insomniacal Fan

Starter
#51
#51
Vinny Basketballerino said:
Yes, it's a straw man to paint it as some far-reaching conspiracy that everybody but the fans are in on. It's most likely exactly as Donaghy said, a few well-placed company men to get the job done when necessary. Not hard to believe or far fetched at all. We're talking tens of billions of dollars at stake. It'd be crazy if there WASN'T little tweaking here or there. It's a business, folks.
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The business (the NBA) as a whole is worth tens of billions, but the 1st round seeding of any given playoff year is not likely to be worth very much against that.

The hypothesis that individual refs would have "company loyalty" to the extent of pushing games one way or the other, with no expectation of compensation, doesn't seem to leave a trail in reality. It's not impossible, but if you believe that, you could just as easily believe in lots of other things that are pretty silly.

The motive seems shaky, and the mechanism doesn't generate much of a signal
 
R

Rob-The-Great

Starter
#52
#52
Insomniacal Fan said:
The business (the NBA) as a whole is worth tens of billions, but the 1st round seeding of any given playoff year is not likely to be worth very much against that.

The hypothesis that individual refs would have "company loyalty" to the extent of pushing games one way or the other, with no expectation of compensation, doesn't seem to leave a trail in reality. It's not impossible, but if you believe that, you could just as easily believe in lots of other things that are pretty silly.

The motive seems shaky, and the mechanism doesn't generate much of a signal
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The NBA goes as far as changing individual games to prime time instead of regular games on a individual game bases. To say they don't care about 1st round of the playoffs is poppycotts.

On top of that, Sabonis didn't make allstar while putting up historic numbers. Not a single King got allstar invitation. Not one. Not even skills challenge where one team cheated!

We are the NBA step child and its clear refs are bias against us. Perhaps not to cheat us, but simply because we don't matter a bit compared to higher market teams.
 
Insomniacal Fan

Insomniacal Fan

Starter
#53
#53
Rob-The-Great said:
The NBA goes as far as changing individual games to prime time instead of regular games on a individual game bases. To say they don't care about 1st round of the playoffs is poppycotts.

On top of that, Sabonis didn't make allstar while putting up historic numbers. Not a single King got allstar invitation. Not one. Not even skills challenge where one team cheated!

We are the NBA step child and its clear refs are bias against us. Perhaps not to cheat us, but simply because we don't matter a bit compared to higher market teams.
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Networks have the option to swap games built into their contracts , and they are the ones that have the motivation to maximize impressions. But it seems like individual refs are now loyal to the TV networks for some reason. The "company man" theory is starting to get complicated.

Donaghy was a con-man and a fraud throughout his life. Nobody should be drinking his poison
 
Vinny Basketballerino

Vinny Basketballerino

Starter
#54
#54
Insomniacal Fan said:
The business (the NBA) as a whole is worth tens of billions, but the 1st round seeding of any given playoff year is not likely to be worth very much against that.

The hypothesis that individual refs would have "company loyalty" to the extent of pushing games one way or the other, with no expectation of compensation, doesn't seem to leave a trail in reality. It's not impossible, but if you believe that, you could just as easily believe in lots of other things that are pretty silly.

The motive seems shaky, and the mechanism doesn't generate much of a signal
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This is where we disagree. I do believe there are likely incentives in place. The trail this leaves in reality is the BLATANTLY biased refereeing. You can't ignore the most obvious evidence. This all goes back to 2002 for me. I simply can't ignore what I so clearly saw. That was not incompetence, that was malice. I don't believe in Hanlon's Razor anyway.
 
GWD

GWD

Bench
#55
#55
Vinny Basketballerino said:
This is where we disagree. I do believe there are likely incentives in place. The trail this leaves in reality is the BLATANTLY biased refereeing. You can't ignore the most obvious evidence. This all goes back to 2002 for me. I simply can't ignore what I so clearly saw. That was not incompetence, that was malice. I don't believe in Hanlon's Razor anyway.
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Had to look it up. Cute.
 
Insomniacal Fan

Insomniacal Fan

Starter
#56
#56
Vinny Basketballerino said:
This is where we disagree. I do believe there are likely incentives in place.
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Whoa, I was just interpreting what you said, I don't buy into that theory at all.

The "company man" theory has refs throwing games for the NBA out of a sense of loyalty. If you say there are incentives like a kickback, then there's a paper trail, and then there's a risk of exposure. It would be reckless to risk a ~$300,000,000,000 business to make your customers (the networks) ~$1,000,000 happier some years. If you did do that, then it would be irrational to bribe the refs with more money than you made for the customer; (if you did, then nobody made any money anyway) There's a cap on how much you could kick back.

This all goes back to 2002 for me. I simply can't ignore what I so clearly saw. That was not incompetence, that was malice. I don't believe in Hanlon's Razor anyway.
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Game 6 2002 was a particularly bizarrely officiated game, to the point where it's still remembered 20 years later, and in that game, blatant bad calls only swung the game ~6 points. (https://www.82games.com/lakerskingsgame6.htm) The NBA can't have a watchable product and alter games like that as a matter of standard practice. If this was done regularly, then we wouldn't still be talking about game 6, 20 years later.
 
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