Amick: De’Aaron Fox requests trade

[pdxKingsFan]

I think we risk severely overpaying if the Spurs are the ONLY club we are discussing with.

I just don't think we owe him anything like a preferred destination. He hasn't signed a deal with us he wasn't obligated to and he just set fire to the team during a hot streak and a playoff push. He's NOT Dame Lillard and Dame didn't get his way either.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

For all of the good his tenure has accomplished on various social justice fronts, Silver has mostly been laser-focused on growing the NBA and expanding into new markets. I think there's some resentment in the league office that a more profitable market like Seattle was stiffed for two "lesser" markets like Oklahoma City and Sacramento. The NBA has always had difficulty competing for attention with the NFL, and Seattle is a market that Silver is surely annoyed the NBA abandoned.

California, on the other hand, just has the unusual distinction of being the only state in the union with four professional basketball franchises. I'm sure the default position of many is "Well, why?" Yes, it's our country's most populous state, but with two teams in Los Angeles (this is just... stupid, by the way, and always has been) and one team in the Bay Area, it's obvious that the Kings are in the smallest market of the four and are going to be the afterthought. It helps contribute to their punching bag status that they've been a poorly-run organization for most of their existence in Sacramento.

Pluck the Clippers out of Los Angeles and either move them back to San Diego or move them to Seattle, I say. Spread the franchises around a bit better. That will never happen, of course, because $$$. Los Angeles is such a massive media market that it can support the existence of two teams, no matter how stupid it is. Sacramento will never be a favored franchise because they're an NBA backwater in a state with much bigger fish, and they're an easy target for derision as a result, and that will remain so until they change their own fortunes. A more kind whistle from the refs doesn't feel like too much to ask, but the reality is that nobody's looking to do the Kings any favors. It remains surprising that David Stern was so dead-set on the Kings remaining in Sacramento, because it wasn't strictly a business decision.

But having Seattle open has allowed every other ownership in the NBA to strongarm their home city while everyone knows the expansion prices keep going up and eventually Seattle will pony up $5 billion+ along with some other city (Vegas?) that is split 30 ways.

Also there's probably something to be said for keeping the capital city in the world's 5th largest economy in your pocket.

 

[QWERTYLICIOUS]

I just don't think we owe him anything like a preferred destination. He hasn't signed a deal with us he wasn't obligated to and he just set fire to the team during a hot streak and a playoff push. He's NOT Dame Lillard and Dame didn't get his way either.

Agreed. We don't owe him anything.

 

[Tizzy Flip]

But having Seattle open has allowed every other ownership in the NBA to strongarm their home city while everyone knows the expansion prices keep going up and eventually Seattle will pony up $5 billion+ along with some other city (Vegas?) that is split 30 ways.

Also there's probably something to be said for keeping the capital city in the world's 5th largest economy in your pocket.

I think Seattle and Vegas will have expansion teams sooner rather than later. Arena was the biggest issue with Seattle and that’s now been addressed. Those 2 move to western conference, and Memphis and Minnesota move to eastern conference

 

[pdxKingsFan]

I think Seattle and Vegas will have expansion teams sooner rather than later. Arena was the biggest issue with Seattle and that’s now been addressed. Those 2 move to western conference, and Memphis and Minnesota move to eastern conference

They will but the funny thing is the expansion valuation probably goes up 500 million for each year they hold off right now.

 

[QWERTYLICIOUS]

I think Seattle and Vegas will have expansion teams sooner rather than later. Arena was the biggest issue with Seattle and that’s now been addressed. Those 2 move to western conference, and Memphis and Minnesota move to eastern conference

Funny thing about this is that I currently live in one of those cities, and may consider moving to the other once I decide to (finally) get out.

 

[Tizzy Flip]

They will but the funny thing is the expansion valuation probably goes up 500 million for each year they hold off right now.

How does that work? NBA would just pocket that cash in the form of an expansion fee? In any case, whatever the cost is it’ll be a pittance for the billionaires in these cities interested in owning

 

[hrdboild]

I think Seattle and Vegas will have expansion teams sooner rather than later. Arena was the biggest issue with Seattle and that’s now been addressed. Those 2 move to western conference, and Memphis and Minnesota move to eastern conference

It might be Memphis and New Orleans moving to the East. The Pelicans used to be the Charlotte Hornets anyway and New Orleans is further East than Minneapolis I believe?

 

[Tizzy Flip]

It might be Memphis and New Orleans moving to the East. The Pelicans used to be the Charlotte Hornets anyway and New Orleans is further East than Minneapolis I believe?

Ahh forgot about New Orleans. I think flight time is about the same going from CA to New Orleans, so it might be the Texas teams being closer to New Orleans influencing that decision.

 

[funkykingston]

Outgoing:
Fox

Incoming:
Castle
Sochan
Johnson
2025 1st Round
2026 1st Round
2027 1st Round
2028 1st Round
2029 1st Round

Would be my BARE MINIMUM in this scenario. We must NOT walk out of this deal with less than 5 1st round picks.

That's just not going to happen. If the Kings wanted 4 or maybe even 5 first round picks and salary filler, then I think that might doable. If they want Castle I think they are at most getting 3 first rounders. And if they wanted Sochan as well, I think it becomes two firsts at best.

Also, the Stepien rule means that the Spurs can't be without a first round pick in consecutive years. Here are the first rounders the Spurs have currently:

2025
Chicago Bulls (top 10 protected)
Charlotte Hornets; (top 14 protected)
Atlanta Hawks; No protections

2026
Spurs own pick (swap rights with ATL)

2027
Atlanta Hawks (no protections)
Spurs own pick

2028
Spurs own pick (swap rights with BOS)

2029
Spurs own pick

2030
Spurs own pick (swap rights with DAL & MIN for the most favorable)

2031
Spurs own pick (swap rights with SAC)
Minnesota Timberwolves (no protections)

So the Kings could get two picks in 2025

 

[QWERTYLICIOUS]

That's just not going to happen. If the Kings wanted 4 or maybe even 5 first round picks and salary filler, then I think that's doable. If they want Castle I think they are at most getting 3 first rounders. And if they wanted Sochan as well, I think it becomes two firsts at best.

Also, the Stepien rule means that the Spurs can't be without a first round pick in consecutive years. Here are the first rounders the Spurs have currently:

2025
Chicago Bulls (top 10 protected)
Charlotte Hornets; (top 14 protected)
Atlanta Hawks; No protections

2026
Spurs own pick (swap rights with ATL)

2027
Atlanta Hawks (no protections)
Spurs own pick

2028
Spurs own pick (swap rights with BOS)

2029
Spurs own pick

2030
Spurs own pick (swap rights with DAL & MIN for the most favorable)

2031
Spurs own pick (swap rights with SAC)
Minnesota Timberwolves (no protections)

So the Kings could get two picks in 2025

See my response to @pdxKingsFan's response to this same comment/proposal...

 

[pdxKingsFan]

How does that work? NBA would just pocket that cash in the form of an expansion fee? In any case, whatever the cost is it’ll be a pittance for the billionaires in these cities interested in owning

Split equally amongst the existing owners. If it was 5 billion each, two teams, that's almost 350 million to each team.

 

[sactowndog]

Not an awful comparison. But Castle is a better defender and more vertically explosive while not having Tyreke's level of ballhandling or shiftiness.

Evans could function as the primary ballhandler from the moment he entered the league. Castle is years away from that, if he ever gets there. But both are big and long for guards.

how long are they in comparison. Reke is a decent comp?

 

[pdxKingsFan]

how long are they in comparison. Reke is a decent comp?

Castle has a 6'6 wingspan or something or other I don't know because I don't laser in on this like you do. The reason I made the joke is because he is listed as a PG, most people say he's an off guard, and Tetsujin said he'll be a wing.

 

[funkykingston]

how long are they in comparison. Reke is a decent comp?

Castle has a 6'6 wingspan or something or other I don't know because I don't laser in on this like you do. The reason I made the joke is because he is listed as a PG, most people say he's an off guard, and Tetsujin said he'll be a wing.

Castle actually has a 6'9" wingspan. At the combine he measured at 6'5.5" w/o shoes, had an 8'6" standing reach and weighed 210 lbs. He's a BIG guard.

 

[Hoovtrain]

Good piece

https://www.sacbee.com/opinion/article299464004.html

 

[QWERTYLICIOUS]

Good piece

https://www.sacbee.com/opinion/article299464004.html

Sometimes, the truth hurts, doesn't it?

 

[funkykingston]

Here's a dream win-now scenario for me. The Kings trade Fox to the Spurs and get back the two Atlanta picks, the protected Chicago pick, and Castle, CP3, and Tyus Jones. CP3 and Huerter head to the Nets with the Chicago pick for Cam Johnson. Jones is sent to the Trailblazers with a 2nd round pick for Robert Williams (salary dump essentially) and the Kings trade the 2027 Atlanta pick and DeRozan to the Magic (who are freefalling in the standings right now and need major bench scoring) for Jonathan Isaac.

C Sabonis/Williams/Len
PF Isaac/Lyles/Crowder/I. Jones
SF Murray/Johnson/McDermott
SG Ellis/Castle/C. Jones
PG Monk/Carter/McLaughlin

It will never happen, but that roster would compete.

 

[Joshyjosh31]

Here's a dream win-now scenario for me. The Kings trade Fox to the Spurs and get back the two Atlanta picks, the protected Chicago pick, and Castle, CP3, and Tyus Jones. CP3 and Huerter head to the Nets with the Chicago pick for Cam Johnson. Jones is sent to the Trailblazers with a 2nd round pick for Robert Williams (salary dump essentially) and the Kings trade the 2027 Atlanta pick and DeRozan to the Magic (who are freefalling in the standings right now and need major bench scoring) for Jonathan Isaac.

C Sabonis/Williams/Len
PF Isaac/Lyles/Crowder/I. Jones
SF Murray/Johnson/McDermott
SG Ellis/Castle/C. Jones
PG Monk/Carter/McLaughlin

It will never happen, but that roster would compete.

Keon/Isaac wouldn’t starting over Cam especially when there’s no scoring threats outside of monk on that team

 

[Capt. Factorial]

That's the point I was/am trying to make. That I'd much rather have an already unprotected pick come our way, rather than one that is already protected.
In other words, I'd much rather we have a guaranteed pick than a pick that can possibly be conveyed.

There's a give and take there. What pick is better, the CHI 25 protected pick, or the SAS 27 unprotected? If we deal Fox to SAS, the 27 unprotected would likely be in the mid 20s. On the other hand, there are three shots for that Chicago pick to land in the mid teens, and its, what 80-90% likely it eventually conveys?

 

[funkykingston]

Keon/Isaac wouldn’t starting over Cam especially when there’s no scoring threats outside of monk on that team

So you start Murray and Johnson. Isaac isn't going to play huge minutes regardless

 

[QWERTYLICIOUS]

There's a give and take there. What pick is better, the CHI 25 protected pick, or the SAS 27 unprotected? If we deal Fox to SAS, the 27 unprotected would likely be in the mid 20s. On the other hand, there are three shots for that Chicago pick to land in the mid teens, and its, what 80-90% likely it eventually conveys?

I'm all for taking a chance, but in this instance, I'd be more inclined to lean closer to 100% than I would to 80-90%. It does come down to personal preference/choice at the end of the day. I'd much rather take a chance when we don't have much to lose.

But, then, I also see the counter-argument....That we are not in a position to play conservative. That we HAVE to take a chance.

It's a double-edged sword at the end of the day.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Rich Paul wants De'Aaron Fox rumors out now and timing shows how players have lost leverage with NBA's new CBA

"The players used to have all the leverage to leave. Now they don't. And the players association hasn't done a good job explaining that to them, in part because the NBA players association doesn't want to say, 'We did a bad job negotiating, and the deal we agreed to has destroyed the leverage you were so accustomed to having.'"

The Fox chatter, then, was floated in part as a flare for the rest of the NBA, a message that says: Before you spend your very limited cap room on Butler, or anyone else, know Fox is here and can be had now, or down the road.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

He's all Spurs have to offer beyond picks. That's why.

Let's not ignore that he's young (20) and talented and the projection is that he's going to put it together. Maybe he doesn't, maybe he does, we'd be betting on the latter. Given that he's four months into his NBA career, there's a lot of uncertainty. The point is, we're not insisting on getting a guy shooting .400/.260, we're insisting on getting a guy who has a decent chance to break out.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Let's not ignore that he's young (20) and talented and the projection is that he's going to put it together. Maybe he doesn't, maybe he does, we'd be betting on the latter. Given that he's four months into his NBA career, there's a lot of uncertainty. The point is, we're not insisting on getting a guy shooting .400/.260, we're insisting on getting a guy who has a decent chance to break out.

I'm not trying to diminish him he's 100% necessary in any trade we do (as are the 25 & 27 ATL picks and at least one more and Sochan, frankly).

But also he's all they have that has a shot, any shot, of being more than a role player outside Wemby. You can't trade a star for a package of roleplayers. Even a crippled star like Webber.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

Here's a dream win-now scenario for me. The Kings trade Fox to the Spurs and get back the two Atlanta picks, the protected Chicago pick, and Castle, CP3, and Tyus Jones. CP3 and Huerter head to the Nets with the Chicago pick for Cam Johnson. Jones is sent to the Trailblazers with a 2nd round pick for Robert Williams (salary dump essentially) and the Kings trade the 2027 Atlanta pick and DeRozan to the Magic (who are freefalling in the standings right now and need major bench scoring) for Jonathan Isaac.

C Sabonis/Williams/Len
PF Isaac/Lyles/Crowder/I. Jones
SF Murray/Johnson/McDermott
SG Ellis/Castle/C. Jones
PG Monk/Carter/McLaughlin

It will never happen, but that roster would compete.

You're asking the Spurs to trade all three of their PGs in that scenario. I can't see that working for them.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

I'm not trying to diminish him he's 100% necessary in any trade we do (as are the 25 & 27 ATL picks and at least one more and Sochan, frankly).

Agreed.

But also he's all they have that has a shot, any shot, of being more than a role player outside Wemby. You can't trade a star for a package of roleplayers. Even a crippled star like Webber.

Well, you CAAAAAN.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Well, you CAAAAAN.

 

[iowamcnabb]

https://twitter.com/statuses/1885383467535372338

 

[QWERTYLICIOUS]

You can't trade a star for a package of roleplayers. Even a crippled star like Webber.

Well, you CAAAAAN.

I agree with the Capt. here. If done right, you most certainly can.