“THE” Trade Deadline Move to Make…

[iowamcnabb]

As I mentioned to Jamal, the point of comparing DFS to Murray is to highlight the fact that counting stats are not the end all be all. DFS’s impact is not tied to counting stats as much as someone like Fox hence why I thought it was an odd thing to include in your comment (especially since we’re not surrendering big assets in the trade).

As for the reference about the bench, we need to graduate from the line of thinking that bench players strictly play against other bench players. That’s not the case and certainly not in Brown’s rotations. We have 4 scorers who can get us 20 on any given night and are all very good with the ball in their hands (and Carter might give us another guy who can give us a scoring punch with the ball in his hands). These players can and have been staggered throughout the game which gives us consistent scoring threats for 48 mins. Also, it’s worth considering that despite…

• Monk missing 7 games
• DeRozan missing 5 games
• Sabonis missing 2 games
• Huerter shooting .311 on 5.9 3PA
• Murray shooting .299 on 5.5 3PA

…the Kings are 6th in ORTG (0.1 away from being 5th). I’m not overly worried about our offense and I don’t think replacing Huerter for DFS is going to make much of an impact either considering how poorly he has shot thus far. Our offense will probably get better regardless of if we do the trade or not (if we don’t make a trade, Huerter’s 3P% to end the year will likely be much higher than 31%. If we do make the trade, DFS will likely at least shoot better than 31% to end the year).

So if our offense is already showing signs of being one of the better offenses in the league (and that is despite some of our key offensive options missing a combined 14 games thus far and despite our key floor spacers shooting 30-31% from three), do we really need to spend more assets trying to improve our offense even more? I don’t think so. I think it would be much more prudent to spend those assets in a way that improve your defense (without hurting your offense). DFS and Nance do just that.

We also have to recognize how much our defense could improve by making this trade. Within our rotation, we’d essentially be swapping…

Huerter
Lyles
McLaughlin
McDermott

for

DFS
Nance
Carter

…I think that upgrade gives us a real good shot at being a team that can be top 10 in DRTG as well. Combine that with a top shelf offense (as I mentioned earlier) and we’re cooking.

I would agree on targeting defense at the 3-5 is the most logical. I do worry that our asset management leaves us in a situation where we have to overpay for those type of players or we go get a player like Kuz or Cam that are worth what we have to offer but might not fit the role we need and are mostly just talent upgrades. Cam is a decent defender and he does give us more size while being one of the better shooters in the league. So he does fit, I think I’d just rather have a defense first guy who can accept that role.

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

Players get worse as they get older. You have no idea when the age cliff is, but generally, for most role players, it's around 30. We're seeing it with our own Trey Lyles.

So yes, it raises red flags when a guy is 31 and has seen a shooting decline in his last 164 games. I already said I can't speak to his defense, since I haven't watched him very much the last few seasons, but in general players that get older don't get better on defense. And I'm for damn certain he's not close to the same defender that he was on the Mavs, I don't need to see game film to know that. DFS on the Mavs was one of the better defenders in the league.

Again, since I apparently have to clarify everything I say on this site multiple times, I really like DFS. I think he'd help us a lot. I DO NOT want to pay the price tag that TWslam is suggesting. That would be a massive overpay.

In order to get the player or player's to really make this team a contender, it seems that McNair will have to settle for what is considered an "overpay" in order to get it done. If he doesn't have to and can still get what they need, that would be a welcome surprise, if not a bit unrealistic at this point.

This will be the big risk that he hasn't taken yet, but is in all likelyhood necessary to get them over the hump into contention

 

[The_Jamal]

In order to get the player or player's to really make this team a contender, it seems that McNair will have to settle for what is considered an "overpay" in order to get it done. If he doesn't have to and can still get what they need, that would be a welcome surprise, if not a bit unrealistic at this point.

This will be the big risk that he hasn't taken yet, but is in all likelyhood necessary to get them over the hump into contention

That's the thing, I don't think swapping Huerter and 4 2nd's for DFS gets us any closer to contention. Especially if Huerter continues to turn the corner as he's done since moving to the bench.

Now if you add DFS to our bench core of Keon/Huerter and eventually Carter, that's something to get excited about. That absolutely could be the difference between winning and losing a playoff series.

Huerter is the guy to trade for Cam Johnson with a pile of picks. Cam is someone who can be a long-term staple of our rotation and essentially replace what Huerter was doing; just in the form of a bigger wing.

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

That's the thing, I don't think swapping Huerter and 4 2nd's for DFS gets us any closer to contention. Especially if Huerter continues to turn the corner as he's done since moving to the bench.

Now if you add DFS to our bench core of Keon/Huerter and eventually Carter, that's something to get excited about. That absolutely could be the difference between winning and losing a playoff series.

Huerter is the guy to trade for Cam Johnson with a pile of picks. Cam is someone who can be a long-term staple of our rotation and essentially replace what Huerter was doing; just in the form of a bigger wing.

How are they going to get Smith without trading Huerter? There's lots of players we could get excited about adding, but there has to be a realistic trade that the other team will agree to

 

[twslam07]

But you yourself said his counting stats don't matter, but his shooting does. Which, I mostly agree, DFS doesn't provide much value outside his shooting on offense. Yet he's had a pretty big 2 year decline, before this season, on his shooting. So do you trust the 17-game sample that he's back? The last 2 years were just a blimp in his career?

Huerter's also really found a great role off the bench. He's finding his rhythm; his numbers the last 5 games when we've gone 4-1:

13.6 PPG
3.8 RPG
2.0 APG
1.2 SPG
41.2% from 3 ( 6.8 3PA)
65.7% TS

I just find it weird that Huerter is all of a sudden a negative value because he's struggled last year and this year, but we're just going to look past DFS equally struggling the past 2 years, while being older, with less team control. DFS would also be a 6th man here, there's no reason he should supplement Monk with the starters.

Well the 3 seasons prior to those he shot 38.9% on 1040 3PA. That’s nothing to sneeze at.

Even the more recent trend isn’t that bad when you consider the context…

2019-20 (DAL): 38%
2020-21 (DAL): 39%
2021-22 (DAL): 40%
2022-23 (DAL): 36%
2022-23 (BKN): 31%
2023-24 (BKN): 35%
2024-25 (BKN): 45%

So outside of him having to adjust to a new team that was completely overhauled mid-season (when he shot 31%), he has averaged 35% or better from 3 and 38% in aggregate.

 

[twslam07]

That's the thing, I don't think swapping Huerter and 4 2nd's for DFS gets us any closer to contention. Especially if Huerter continues to turn the corner as he's done since moving to the bench.

Now if you add DFS to our bench core of Keon/Huerter and eventually Carter, that's something to get excited about. That absolutely could be the difference between winning and losing a playoff series.

Huerter is the guy to trade for Cam Johnson with a pile of picks. Cam is someone who can be a long-term staple of our rotation and essentially replace what Huerter was doing; just in the form of a bigger wing.

The issue with sending a “pile of picks” out to get Cam Johnson is that it still leaves us with the same glaring issue that has been staring us in the face the past few seasons…a long, athletic 3&D PF.

Cam Johnson certainly has the “3” part, but he’s not that big & long and he’s only an average/decent defender. He only has a 8’7” standing reach and a 6’10” wingspan while weighing 205 lbs. That’s not PF size/length. In fact, it’s not even that good for a SF. It’s about average for a SF. As a comparison, DeRozan has a 8’6.5” standing reach and a 6’9” wingspan while weighing 211 lbs. On the other hand, DFS has a 8’9.5” standing reach and a 6’11.75” wingspan while weighing 213 lbs. On top of that, DFS has an impressive standing vertical for his size (32.5”) which I think helps him a lot when contesting shots around the rim.

Give me the player with more size who can actually log minutes at PF while helping address our biggest issues (size, length, and defense).

 

[Joshyjosh31]

https://twitter.com/statuses/1868902093043720377

If a Cam Johnson trade happens this needs to happen right after the offense stalls when we start soaking Derozan iso plays

 

[twslam07]

This DEN game did a pretty good job of highlighting that same glaring weakness we’ve had for a few years and the same glaring weakness that I mentioned in the posts above.

During the 1st quarter, do we think Gordon would have had the same success in the paint if we had DFS or Nance to throw at him? I don’t. Do we think Gordon would have had the same success in the paint if we had Cam Johnson to throw at him? I do.

Again, our offense looks pretty strong already (and this was without a few of our role playing shooters in Murray, Huerter, and Lyles). We really should be focusing on defensive upgrades and balancing the roster so big PFs can’t abuse us.

 

[twslam07]

Both of the guys you're acquiring here are going to be free agents at the end of this season. That tips this into the "too risky for my taste" category. There's really only one way this succeeds -- the team takes off, wins a playoff series (or two) and then one or both of these guys takes the Malik Monk discount to stick around and build from there. In almost every other circumstance we'd be overpaying for one roll of the dice and burning our only significant trade assets in the process.

What type of contracts do you think DFS (a 24-28 mpg, 32 year old bench forward) and Nance (a 12-16 mpg, 32 year old bench big) are going to get? It was pretty apparent to me during this offseason that teams were more hesitant to throw big bags at role players considering the new apron rules. I don’t think these guys are due for some big payday as you’re alluding to. For instance, Royce O’Neale will be 32 at the start of next year and the Suns traded for his expiring contract last offseason. They resigned him for $10.5 mil a year over 4 years. I see DFS signing for a similar amount as his current salary (just for more years). And I see Nance likely getting a pay decrease (maybe around the $6-8 mil/year range).

I don’t think we need to bank on a “Malik Monk discount” to retain these guys. Monk was 26 when he was a FA, his stock was on the rise, and there were questions whether he could improve more of a team gave him a starting role. I don’t see many teams being desperate to throw a bag at these guys and we just have to hope they stay with us at a discount.

Also, I’m not really following what you mean by “burning our only significant trade assets?” We’re giving up two contracts/players many of us would be happy to move on from, 2 2nds, and lessening the protection on a 2025 1st that may convey regardless of us changing the protection.

I also don't entirely agree with the methodology of targeting two guys for trade when there's really only enough playing time for one of them. It muddies the waters for player roles and there's very little time here to reconfigure those on the fly. Not to mention, Isaac Jones is already looking like a fantastic value rotation big and you've squeezed him out of the rotation entirely (off the roster based on your projected depth chart) in order to play two guys who are 5 month rentals in their 30s. We need to continue developing young guys who show promise like Isaac Jones and Keon Ellis with those Fox and Murray contract extensions coming up in the near future. And I would hesitate to move Huerter right now at the absolute basement of his value before we've seen what Devin Carter looks like on an NBA court. This gets tricky because the trade deadline is Feb. 6th and then Huerter becomes an expiring contract, but even if he has no trade value we could still benefit from having Huerter in the depth chart next season.

I disagree. There’s certainly enough playing time for both of them…


PG - Fox (34) / Monk (14)
SG - Monk (16) / Ellis (20) / Carter (12)
SF - DeRozan (34) / Murray (8) / Carter (6)
PF - Murray (22) / DFS (26)
C - Sabonis (34) / Nance (14)

Fox = 34 min
DeRozan = 34 min
Sabonis = 34 min
Monk = 30 min
Murray = 30 min
DFS = 26 min
Ellis = 20 min
Carter = 18 min
Nance = 14 min

You could probably drop DeRozan down to 32 and maybe Monk down to 28 if you want to give some of these other guys a few more min. And I’d let Ellis and Carter duke it out. If one is leaps & bounds better than the other, I’d reallocate the minutes between those two.

As for developing our young guys, I’m all for it but I don’t think (as a playoff team) we should relying on Jones. It’s one thing to give these young guys their shot when players go down with injury but it’s another thing as GM to organize your depth based on Jones being a key player off the bench.

I am totally onboard with packaging any of our expiring contracts (Lyles, Len, McDermott, Robinson, JMac) for short-term help because none of them have proven themselves to be indispensable parts of this current team. But I'd prefer that we pool those trade assets into getting one guy who can help to fix our defensive issues in the frontcourt. Preferably that one guy is more than a 5 month rental and we have the ability to keep them for a couple years without torching our payroll.

I guess my response is why is the outcome either 1) they are a 5 month rental or 2) they torch our payroll? I think we might just fundamentally disagree on how much these guys are going to cost down the road. Teams are being much more stingy with their contracts and I have a hard time seeing a team break that philosophy for a couple 32 year old role players.

 

[twslam07]

https://x.com/the_stilesfiles/status/1868902093043720377?s=46&t=XHl6MkQyOm3Zbk1mBBrooA

If a Cam Johnson trade happens this needs to happen right after the offense stalls when we start soaking Derozan iso plays

I mentioned the possibility of DeRozan coming off the bench when the trade went down. It obviously didn’t happen this year, but it’s fair to say that our current starting lineup is undersized at 4 of the 5 positions (Monk at SG, DeRozan at SF, Murray at PF, and Sabonis at C).

Something has to give at some point. Now that we have opened up Pandora’s box by starting Monk, I don’t see us trying to convince him to take a bench role again. Murray ideally should be playing SF who then all of a sudden gives us an above average sized SF (we lose this by playing him at PF). That leaves us with the option of moving DeRozan to the bench.

DeRozan will be 36 at the start of the next year, and by all accounts, is a big team player. I could see him being willing to accept a super 6th man role maybe starting next year if we have solved our glaring weakness (adding a PF with good size, length, & athleticism who can defend and space the floor.

If we trade for DFS (in my proposal above) and resign him, we could trot out a starting lineup of…

Fox
Monk
Murray
DFS
Sabonis

…that gives us two big, long defensive forwards to help Sabonis while also improving our floor spacing.

The only other way we could probably move Monk back to the bench is if Carter overtakes him. If it just becomes undeniable that Carter is the better player (or better fit) than perhaps that gives you the opportunity to inject more size, length, and defense into the starting unit as well.

 

[ESP47]

I like Nance but he's definitely not worth a first rounder.

 

[twslam07]

I like Nance but he's definitely not worth a first rounder.

Did someone propose a 1st rounder for him? I’d definitely be against that as well

 

[Joshyjosh31]

Ya Nance is going for two seconds and that’s max from a desperate team he’s not even getting minutes

 

[ESP47]

Did someone propose a 1st rounder for him? I’d definitely be against that as well

Maybe my brain isn't working today but isn't that what the very first sentence in your original post says?

 

[Joshyjosh31]

If we’re trading for a backup center I’d rather go get Valanciunas he’ll probably cost a first but we could reduce Sabonis minutes to even 30 while keeping Lyles. If we could do Huerter, Len, a first and two seconds for Jonas and Kispert it would do wonders for our bench. Kispert adds shooting at 6’7 which we need

 

[twslam07]

Maybe my brain isn't working today but isn't that what the very first sentence in your original post says?

Ah got it. Let me clarify…

Our 2025 1st already belongs to ATL but it’s top 12 protected. If it doesn’t convey this year, our 2026 1st will belong to ATL but it will be top 10 protected. If it doesn’t convey to ATL after 2026, ATL receives 2 future 2nd round picks.

My proposal is suggesting to remove the top 12 protection in the 2025 1st altogether (making it an unprotected pick) which does a few things…

1. It gives ATL some more value because it makes the 1st they already own a bit more attractive since it 1) gives them a small chance at jumping up and winning the lottery (if we miss the playoffs) and 2) guarantees they get a 1st round pick from the original Huerter trade (if we finish in the bottom 12 this year and then bottom 10 next year, they only get 2 2nds)
2. It frees up some of our 2nds since two of them can’t be traded due to the stipulations on the pick owed to ATL (if we never convey a 1st to ATL, they get 2 2nds from us so we technically can’t trade those 2 2nd round picks today)
3. It frees up our future 1sts to be used in a trade during the 2025 off-season. Since it’s guaranteed that the 2025 1st will convey to ATL, we will be in a position again to use all of our future 1sts in a big trade (if we want)
   

So we’re not giving up a 1st for Nance. We’re making the 1st they already own more attractive, but in exchange, we’re also asking them to send over 2 2nd round picks to BKN to help pay the cost of DFS.

 

[ESP47]

Ah got it. Let me clarify…

Our 2025 1st already belongs to ATL but it’s top 12 protected. If it doesn’t convey this year, our 2026 1st will belong to ATL but it will be top 10 protected. If it doesn’t convey to ATL after 2026, ATL receives 2 future 2nd round picks.

My proposal is suggesting to remove the top 12 protection in the 2025 1st altogether (making it an unprotected pick) which does a few things…

1. It gives ATL some more value because it makes the 1st they already own a bit more attractive since it 1) gives them a small chance at jumping up and winning the lottery (if we miss the playoffs) and 2) guarantees they get a 1st round pick from the original Huerter trade (if we finish in the bottom 12 this year and then bottom 10 next year, they only get 2 2nds)
2. It frees up some of our 2nds since two of them can’t be traded due to the stipulations on the pick owed to ATL (if we never convey a 1st to ATL, they get 2 2nds from us so we technically can’t trade those 2 2nd round picks today)
3. It frees up our future 1sts to be used in a trade during the 2025 off-season. Since it’s guaranteed that the 2025 1st will convey to ATL, we will be in a position again to use all of our future 1sts in a big trade (if we want)

So we’re not giving up a 1st for Nance. We’re making the 1st they already own more attractive, but in exchange, we’re also asking them to send over 2 2nd round picks to BKN to help pay the cost of DFS.

Copy that. I gotcha. Completely forgot about that. I'm good with that idea.

 

[Joshyjosh31]

Ah got it. Let me clarify…

Our 2025 1st already belongs to ATL but it’s top 12 protected. If it doesn’t convey this year, our 2026 1st will belong to ATL but it will be top 10 protected. If it doesn’t convey to ATL after 2026, ATL receives 2 future 2nd round picks.

My proposal is suggesting to remove the top 12 protection in the 2025 1st altogether (making it an unprotected pick) which does a few things…

1. It gives ATL some more value because it makes the 1st they already own a bit more attractive since it 1) gives them a small chance at jumping up and winning the lottery (if we miss the playoffs) and 2) guarantees they get a 1st round pick from the original Huerter trade (if we finish in the bottom 12 this year and then bottom 10 next year, they only get 2 2nds)
2. It frees up some of our 2nds since two of them can’t be traded due to the stipulations on the pick owed to ATL (if we never convey a 1st to ATL, they get 2 2nds from us so we technically can’t trade those 2 2nd round picks today)
3. It frees up our future 1sts to be used in a trade during the 2025 off-season. Since it’s guaranteed that the 2025 1st will convey to ATL, we will be in a position again to use all of our future 1sts in a big trade (if we want)

So we’re not giving up a 1st for Nance. We’re making the 1st they already own more attractive, but in exchange, we’re also asking them to send over 2 2nd round picks to BKN to help pay the cost of DFS.

That pick has to be protected even if it’s top 8 before the season I was in favor of in protecting it for Hunter but that ain’t happening now

 

[hrdboild]

What type of contracts do you think DFS (a 24-28 mpg, 32 year old bench forward) and Nance (a 12-16 mpg, 32 year old bench big) are going to get? It was pretty apparent to me during this offseason that teams were more hesitant to throw big bags at role players considering the new apron rules. I don’t think these guys are due for some big payday as you’re alluding to. For instance, Royce O’Neale will be 32 at the start of next year and the Suns traded for his expiring contract last offseason. They resigned him for $10.5 mil a year over 4 years. I see DFS signing for a similar amount as his current salary (just for more years). And I see Nance likely getting a pay decrease (maybe around the $6-8 mil/year range).

I don’t think we need to bank on a “Malik Monk discount” to retain these guys. Monk was 26 when he was a FA, his stock was on the rise, and there were questions whether he could improve more of a team gave him a starting role. I don’t see many teams being desperate to throw a bag at these guys and we just have to hope they stay with us at a discount.

Also, I’m not really following what you mean by “burning our only significant trade assets?” We’re giving up two contracts/players many of us would be happy to move on from, 2 2nds, and lessening the protection on a 2025 1st that may convey regardless of us changing the protection.




I disagree. There’s certainly enough playing time for both of them…


PG - Fox (34) / Monk (14)
SG - Monk (16) / Ellis (20) / Carter (12)
SF - DeRozan (34) / Murray (8) / Carter (6)
PF - Murray (22) / DFS (26)
C - Sabonis (34) / Nance (14)

Fox = 34 min
DeRozan = 34 min
Sabonis = 34 min
Monk = 30 min
Murray = 30 min
DFS = 26 min
Ellis = 20 min
Carter = 18 min
Nance = 14 min

You could probably drop DeRozan down to 32 and maybe Monk down to 28 if you want to give some of these other guys a few more min. And I’d let Ellis and Carter duke it out. If one is leaps & bounds better than the other, I’d reallocate the minutes between those two.

As for developing our young guys, I’m all for it but I don’t think (as a playoff team) we should relying on Jones. It’s one thing to give these young guys their shot when players go down with injury but it’s another thing as GM to organize your depth based on Jones being a key player off the bench.




I guess my response is why is the outcome either 1) they are a 5 month rental or 2) they torch our payroll? I think we might just fundamentally disagree on how much these guys are going to cost down the road. Teams are being much more stingy with their contracts and I have a hard time seeing a team break that philosophy for a couple 32 year old role players.

Teams are only getting stingy out of necessity... Because the new CBA forces their hand. You can bet at least one team will find enough creative accounting methods to offer DFS a decent contract. Nance Jr. perhaps not but I wouldn't rule it out either. Unless these guys want to re-sign for the veteran's minimum I think they're both gone at the end of the season. Assuming Vivek is willing to pay for them, we'd be better off trading for a similar player who has multiple years of team control on their contract. Huerter is a rotation player who is still signed for next season. Packaging him for anyone who can walk at the end of the year would be a net loss in my mind because we're not one piece away from competing. We're still on a slow build trajectory.

I don't hate these deals, they're just not the direction I would go. We need a big body to stick in the post for certain matchups and we need to plan for eventually moving DeRozan to the bench or losing him to retirement/injury down the line. I'd be thinking in terms of how we can build toward competing in the next 3 years not just our needs this season and a big part of that is finding a key rotation player who is already on a multi year contract we can consolidate some of our expiring bench player contracts into. A guy like an Isaiah Stewart or Jonas Valanciunas. Or failing that, somebody with 1 year plus left on their current contract so we'd retain their non-Bird rights when they do hit Free Agency.

 

[Joshyjosh31]

James Ham keeps repeating that we only have one second to trade that’s disheartening. Can’t give up firsts for a guy like DFS at that point just go get Kuzma or Grant

We can fit Grant and Murray for Lyle’s and Huerter just go for broke

 

[twslam07]

James Ham keeps repeating that we only have one second to trade that’s disheartening. Can’t give up firsts for a guy like DFS at that point just go get Kuzma or Grant

We can fit Grant and Murray for Lyle’s and Huerter just go for broke

Which is another reason why the trade I proposed works out well for us.

Without the involvement of ATL in this trade, we likely get outbid for DFS because we can only add 1 2nd. By unprotecting the pick, it allows us to send BKN an additional 2nd while also allowing us to ask ATL to send some of their 2nds as well.

 

[twslam07]

If we’re trading for a backup center I’d rather go get Valanciunas he’ll probably cost a first but we could reduce Sabonis minutes to even 30 while keeping Lyles. If we could do Huerter, Len, a first and two seconds for Jonas and Kispert it would do wonders for our bench. Kispert adds shooting at 6’7 which we need

I mean you’re still neglecting the biggest weakness on this team (a long, athletic PF who can defend and space the floor). That needs to be addressed first and foremost.

Surrendering a 1st round pick for a backup C when you already have an All NBA C would be a poor use of our assets. There’s more cost effective options out there.

 

[twslam07]

That pick has to be protected even if it’s top 8 before the season I was in favor of in protecting it for Hunter but that ain’t happening now

I mean you have to give up some value to get something in return. Is it a risk? Sure, but that’s how we’re generating enough value to address our glaring weakness (a long, athletic PF who can defend and space the floor) and upgrade our backup C. All while not having to surrender any future 1sts.

 

[twslam07]

Teams are only getting stingy out of necessity... Because the new CBA forces their hand. You can bet at least one team will find enough creative accounting methods to offer DFS a decent contract. Nance Jr. perhaps not but I wouldn't rule it out either. Unless these guys want to re-sign for the veteran's minimum I think they're both gone at the end of the season. Assuming Vivek is willing to pay for them, we'd be better off trading for a similar player who has multiple years of team control on their contract. Huerter is a rotation player who is still signed for next season. Packaging him for anyone who can walk at the end of the year would be a net loss in my mind because we're not one piece away from competing. We're still on a slow build trajectory.

I don't hate these deals, they're just not the direction I would go. We need a big body to stick in the post for certain matchups and we need to plan for eventually moving DeRozan to the bench or losing him to retirement/injury down the line. I'd be thinking in terms of how we can build toward competing in the next 3 years not just our needs this season and a big part of that is finding a key rotation player who is already on a multi year contract we can consolidate some of our expiring bench player contracts into. A guy like an Isaiah Stewart or Jonas Valanciunas. Or failing that, somebody with 1 year plus left on their current contract so we'd retain their non-Bird rights when they do hit Free Agency.

What is wrong with resigning DFS to a “decent contract” as you put it? A “decent contract” sounds pretty good to me? How would you define a “decent contract” specifically? I want to see if I would actually take that bet.

Why do you think we’d only keep DFS and/or Nance Jr if they were willing to sign for the veteran minimum? That seems like a really extreme take. Both of these guys are good basketball players and I wouldn’t mind going well above a veteran minimum contract to keep them after this season.

 

[Joshyjosh31]

I mean you’re still neglecting the biggest weakness on this team (a long, athletic PF who can defend and space the floor). That needs to be addressed first and foremost.

Surrendering a 1st round pick for a backup C when you already have an All NBA C would be a poor use of our assets. There’s more cost effective options out there.

Personally I’d do two firsts and make it Kuzma/Jonas but doubt people are behind that idea

 

[twslam07]

Personally I’d do two firsts and make it Kuzma/Jonas but doubt people are behind that idea

We’re tied for the 5th ORTG in the league (while Murray and Huerter are shooting 30-31% from 3) and have 4 guys that can go get 20+ on any given night. Kuzma’s scoring is not a need. We need someone who can defend and space the floor for those aforementioned scorer (both of those things Kuzma isn’t particularly good at).

 

[iowamcnabb]

Which is another reason why the trade I proposed works out well for us.

Without the involvement of ATL in this trade, we likely get outbid for DFS because we can only add 1 2nd. By unprotecting the pick, it allows us to send BKN an additional 2nd while also allowing us to ask ATL to send some of their 2nds as well.

The more I think about it, the more I wonder what DFS’s value will really be. Don’t think any team would offer a first for him so the question is would they rather have 3 seconds from some team or Kevin and say Colby Jones? Both young, under control for one more year with bird rights or restricted free agency rights with Colby I think?, familiar with the coach’s system and plenty of opportunity to grow or improve. They already have a ton of draft picks (mostly firsts) maybe they would rather have younger controllable players? Kev is also a great flip candidate for them, if he goes back to shooting 36-39 percent from there he would be worth 2 or 3 second round picks next trade deadline.

So, our last remaining second, Colby and Kev for DFS. Commit to Lyles as the back up 5.

9 man rotation of

Fox
Sabonis
Deebo
Monk
Keegan
DFS
Keon
Carter
Lyles

If we stay out of the top 12 we have 4 first round picks to trade the day after the draft and take back control over the 2 second rounders.

 

[hrdboild]

What is wrong with resigning DFS to a “decent contract” as you put it? A “decent contract” sounds pretty good to me? How would you define a “decent contract” specifically? I want to see if I would actually take that bet.

Why do you think we’d only keep DFS and/or Nance Jr if they were willing to sign for the veteran minimum? That seems like a really extreme take. Both of these guys are good basketball players and I wouldn’t mind going well above a veteran minimum contract to keep them after this season.

I'm not claiming to be any kind of authority on the salary cap so I don't know when our tax apron restrictions expire, but for the 23-24 season we could only sign minimum contracts. The salary cap will go up next season but only by 10% and a lot of our guys are getting raises so I'm anticipating we won't have a lot of spending flexibility.

 

[Tetsujin]

The more I think about it, the more I wonder what DFS’s value will be really be. Don’t think any team would offer a first for him so the question is would you rather have 3 seconds from some team or Kevin and say Colby Jones? Both young, under control for one more year with bird rights or restricted free agency rights with Colby I think?, familiar with the coach’s system and plenty of opportunity to grow or improve. They already have a ton of draft picks (mostly firsts) maybe they would rather have younger controllable players? Kev is also a great flip candidate for them, if he goes back to shooting 36-39 percent from there he would be worth 2 or 3 second round picks next trade deadline.

So, our last remaining second, Colby and Kev for DFS. Commit to Lyles as the back up 5.

9 man rotation of

Fox
Sabonis
Deebo
Monk
Keegan
DFS
Keon
Carter
Lyles

If we stay out of the top 12 we have 4 first round picks to trade the day after the draft and take back control over the 2 second rounders.

The thing is that there might actually be more pieces for sale this season than there actually are buyers. So many teams moved most of their assets over the last couple of seasons that I’m not sure there’s really that much left in their reserves to really make a push for another piece.

 

[twslam07]

I'm not claiming to be any kind of authority on the salary cap so I don't know when our tax apron restrictions expire, but for the 23-24 season we could only sign minimum contracts. The salary cap will go up next season but only by 10% and a lot of our guys are getting raises so I'm anticipating we won't have a lot of spending flexibility.

Well during the 2025-26 season, we’ll have $144.871 mil allocated to…

Domantas Sabonis
De’Aaron Fox
DeMar DeRozan
Malik Monk
Keegan Murray
Devin Carter
Keon Ellis
Colby Jones

The 1st apron will be at $195.946 mil and the 2nd apron will be at $207.825 mil.

For arguments sake, let’s just say DFS picks up his option next year ($15.378 mil) and let’s say Nance resigns for the same amount he is making this year ($11.205 mil). That brings our payroll to $171.454 mil but we’re still $24.492 mil under the 1st apron and $36.371 mil under the 2nd apron with 10 players under contract.

And those 2025-26 estimates for DFS and Nance I would say are high. I would be really surprised if DFS and Nance make a combined $26.583 mil during the 2025-26 season.

In short, there’s room to work with here and I’m not overly concerned about adding guys like DFS and Nance (even once Murray gets on his 2nd contract).