Lensanity prevails!

Section 101

Section 101

All-Star
#31
#31
TheMobb said:
Davion was over 40% from 3 the 2nd half of the year. I’m not disagreeing that Ellis may be more impactful, but I question him being “vastly” better offensively. Davion is better getting downhill and they are similar shooters. Teams leave both Davion and Ellis open, so we’ll see if Ellis can prove to teams he can shoot it consistently.
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Davion is a ball stopper with poor shot selection. Anyone remember that 3 in the play in off the dribble?

Keon fits and works with the offense.
 
SacTownKid

SacTownKid

Hall of Famer
#32
#32
Flopi said:
From my calculations, Kings are now around 7.5M$ under the 1st apron with 13 players under contract (including Carter) + 3 two-way contracts.

If I understand it correctly, they will be hard-capped at this 1st apron if they use more than 5M$ from the MLE, or if they make a trade with more incoming salaries than they send.
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Not sure, but the timing is going to matter. Even if the Kings are over the apron at the end, they can still sign min. guys. If this is a min. signing then this certainly could be part of something else in the works.
 
J

joemama

Starter
#33
#33
TheMobb said:
Davion was over 40% from 3 the 2nd half of the year. I’m not disagreeing that Ellis may be more impactful, but I question him being “vastly” better offensively. Davion is better getting downhill and they are similar shooters. Teams leave both Davion and Ellis open, so we’ll see if Ellis can prove to teams he can shoot it consistently.
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1/2 of the season.

Again I was high on Davion. Mention intangibles he brought, specifically staying in front, moving his feet, taking charges, but a 1/2 of one season after all those years in college and years in the NBA?

His shooting form has imprived, but let's not pretend his shooting hasn't disappeared before. For his career he is still under 33% and that won't get it done for a 6'0 guy in the NBA.

I posted I liked the moves, stop trying to make it seem like I am ragging on Davion when I point out the good and the bad.
 
Flopi

Flopi

Bench
#35
#35
SacTownKid said:
Not sure, but the timing is going to matter. Even if the Kings are over the apron at the end, they can still sign min. guys. If this is a min. signing then this certainly could be part of something else in the works.
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That's the part I'm not sure of.
My understanding is that if Kings trigger a 1st apron hard-cap (let's say by using more than 5M$ from the MLE), they CAN'T go over the 1st apron by any way.
But again, I am no CBA expert.
 
SacTownKid

SacTownKid

Hall of Famer
#36
#36
Flopi said:
That's the part I'm not sure of.
My understanding is that if Kings trigger a 1st apron hard-cap (let's say by using more than 5M$ from the MLE), they CAN'T go over the 1st apron by any way.
But again, I am no CBA expert.
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That's why the timing could matter. I think we've heard the timing doesn't matter, but if they can sign Monk/Len last, and use the MLE with space under the tax it might not trigger any hard caps. Monk until he signs has a cap hold around 5-6 million less than the first year of his new deal. If it does trigger it the Kings are boned unless they dump more salary or make trades but that was always the case I guess. I'm assuming Monte's staff knows exactly what they're doing as far as the cap is concerned. Then again, he really toed the line with the deals he signed last summer.
 
T

The_Jamal

Hall of Famer
#40
#40
I'm not usually as wrong as I was with Len, but dude proved himself to be a great 10-12 MPG backup. I don't think this totally takes us out of finding a more impactful back up 5, but Len is still phenomenal depth, even if that is the case.

No more Javales,please. Either get a clear cut upgrade (Jalen Smith?) Or just give the spot to Len
 
T

TheMobb

Bench
#42
#42
joemama said:
1/2 of the season.

Again I was high on Davion. Mention intangibles he brought, specifically staying in front, moving his feet, taking charges, but a 1/2 of one season after all those years in college and years in the NBA?

His shooting form has imprived, but let's not pretend his shooting hasn't disappeared before. For his career he is still under 33% and that won't get it done for a 6'0 guy in the NBA.

I posted I liked the moves, stop trying to make it seem like I am ragging on Davion when I point out the good and the bad.
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not gonna put too much into going back and forth, and my apologies if it seemed like I was saying you were ragging on Davion. I just don’t think he’s given a fair shake by most of the fanbase based on the role and opportunity he was given. Was he lighting it up when he was out there? No, but he definitely grew and made strides as a player this season and was solid for the most part. His lack of length will always limit his, that’s where Keon is superior. But in terms of offense I think Davion is a bit better than Keon at this point.
 
Section 101

Section 101

All-Star
#43
#43
TheMobb said:
not gonna put too much into going back and forth, and my apologies if it seemed like I was saying you were ragging on Davion. I just don’t think he’s given a fair shake by most of the fanbase based on the role and opportunity he was given. Was he lighting it up when he was out there? No, but he definitely grew and made strides as a player this season and was solid for the most part. His lack of length will always limit his, that’s where Keon is superior. But in terms of offense I think Davion is a bit better than Keon at this point.
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Keon is way better it's not even close or debatable.

PER
Keon 12.06
Davion 9.4

Keon 17.2 mpg 2.2 reb 1.5 asst .9 stl .4 blk .6 to 41.7% 3pt
Davion 15.3 mpg 1.3 reb 1.9 asst .2 stl 0 blk .6 to 36.1% 3pt
 
T

TheMobb

Bench
#44
#44
Section 101 said:
Keon is way better it's not even close or debatable.

PER
Keon 12.06
Davion 9.4

Keon 17.2 mpg 2.2 reb 1.5 asst .9 stl .4 blk .6 to 41.7% 3pt
Davion 15.3 mpg 1.3 reb 1.9 asst .2 stl 0 blk .6 to 36.1% 3pt
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The numbers don’t tell the whole story. Different roles and Keon had much more opportunity. Keon was a starter playing starter minutes, Davion is playing in 3 min stretches behind Fox, Davion is a ball handler, Keon is playing off ball for the most part.
 
Section 101

Section 101

All-Star
#45
#45
TheMobb said:
The numbers don’t tell the whole story. Different roles and Keon had much more opportunity. Keon was a starter playing starter minutes, Davion is playing in 3 min stretches behind Fox, Davion is a ball handler, Keon is playing off ball for the most part.
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Keon usage 12.5
Davion 15

Yes Davion was more a ball handler, his status should be even better than Keons.

Oh and Davion went from a positive 2.7 Net rating last year to a Negative 2.6 this year.

Keon had a 5.5 net rating.
 
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SacTownKid

SacTownKid

Hall of Famer
#46
#46
For team needs Keon was better, and it was pretty clear in the results. However, if the Raptors put Davion in there at combo G next to a playmaking lead ball handling F like Barnes he's got a shot to be in a perfect situation.
 
T

TheMobb

Bench
#50
#50
Section 101 said:
Keon usage 12.5
Davion 15

Yes Davion was more a ball handler, his status should be even better than Keons.

Oh and Davion went from a positive 2.7 Net rating last year to a Negative 2.6 this year.

Keon had a 5.5 net rating.
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im just not seeing this huge separation with Davion and Keon and these numbers don’t change it. Yes Keon will have a much better net rating as he is in with the starters and Davion is coming in for Fox and playing with the bench most of the time.
 
Section 101

Section 101

All-Star
#52
#52
TheMobb said:
im just not seeing this huge separation with Davion and Keon and these numbers don’t change it. Yes Keon will have a much better net rating as he is in with the starters and Davion is coming in for Fox and playing with the bench most of the time.
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You just digging more holes.

Monk net rating .7
Lyles 7.7
Len 15.4

Heck Colby had a 1.5

I'll give you Duarte -3.1

Doesn't look like the bench was the issue.
 
Capt. Factorial

Capt. Factorial

trifolium contra tempestatem subrigere certum est
Staff member
#55
#55
sactowndog said:
So what level of faith do we have?

Did the Kings give up assets to improve the team or just run it back again?
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We're not only running it back again, by getting rid of Vezenkov we're running '22-'23 back again! The double-run-it-back-again is even run-it-backier than the single run-it-back-again! We're dooooooooooooooooooooooooooomed!
 
E

ESP47

All-Star
#60
#60
TheMobb said:
The numbers don’t tell the whole story. Different roles and Keon had much more opportunity. Keon was a starter playing starter minutes, Davion is playing in 3 min stretches behind Fox, Davion is a ball handler, Keon is playing off ball for the most part.
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I wouldn't be surprised to see Davion get better on offense as his career goes on but to me the most disappointing aspect of his game is that his defense didn't really translate like we thought it would. Yeah if you have a PG attempting to take him off the dribble, good luck. His ability to stay in front of the ball handler is as elite as it gets but as soon as he gets picked off on a screen or switched onto a bigger player, he's more of a hinderance on defense than anything. His one elite skill is fairly easy to exploit for opposing offenses.

Keon is not only really good at saying in front of his man, but he's able to recover by slapping the ball away or blocking the shot.

Per36 Keon has 3x more steals and 10x more blocks than Davion. That's pretty significant. Throw in the fact that he's a better 3pt shooter and the choice is really a no brainer. Davion isn't matching that no matter how many minutes you give him.
 
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