Kings picking 13th overall (formerly the draft lotto thread)

[The_Jamal]

just curious if a sign and trade is structurally impossible.

I could see the following scenario being possible, not going to comment on probability

kings: S&T Monk and 13
Pels: Ingram and 17

Think this would be a horrid look for the Kings. Dude gives us the benefit of the doubt and from the looks of it, walked away from at least 22 mil to stay and sign early.

I also think Monk and 13 is way too much for Ingrams future contract situation. UfA and supposedly wants 50 mil. We're giving up a ton of value for the right to pay him that

 

[Kingz19]

Can’t imagine Monk agreed to basically the minimum he was was going to command in free agency just to end up on a different team anyway.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

just curious if a sign and trade is structurally impossible.

I could see the following scenario being possible, not going to comment on probability

kings: S&T Monk and 13
Pels: Ingram and 17

Monk has to agree to a S&T. So his statement that he is coming back to the Kings basically puts the nail in the coffin for this hypothesis. It’s structurally possible, but it’s not what is happening.

 

[sactowndog]

Monk has to agree to a S&T. So his statement that he is coming back to the Kings basically puts the nail in the coffin for this hypothesis. It’s structurally possible, but it’s not what is happening.

Is it? What is he going to say at this point?

I’m not saying it is happening but let say his agent put something like that together. After the Dante fiasco they aren’t going to say this is really a cover for a sign and trade.

especially if the deal looked like this:

Sac trades: Monk, Huerter and 13
Sac Receives: Ingram and 19

New Orleans trades: Ingram, McCollum, 17, Lakers 1st 2025
New Orleans Receives: Monk, filler, 13

Charlotte:
Receives: Huerter, McCollum, Lakers 1st
Trades: Filler.

 

[sactowndog]

Think this would be a horrid look for the Kings. Dude gives us the benefit of the doubt and from the looks of it, walked away from at least 22 mil to stay and sign early.

I also think Monk and 13 is way too much for Ingrams future contract situation. UfA and supposedly wants 50 mil. We're giving up a ton of value for the right to pay him that

was more thinking it’s possible and if it really was happening behind the Curtain Monk’s agent was likely in on it or created it as a way to get a starting role for Malik on a winning team.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

Is it? What is he going to say at this point?

I’m not saying it is happening but let say his agent put something like that together. After the Dante fiasco they aren’t going to say this is really a cover for a sign and trade.

especially if the deal looked like this:

Sac trades: Monk, Huerter and 13
Sac Receives: Ingram and 19

New Orleans trades: Ingram, McCollum, 17, Lakers 1st 2025
New Orleans Receives: Monk, filler, 13

Charlotte:
Receives: Huerter, McCollum, Lakers 1st
Trades: Filler.

I have never seen a deal announced as a “he’s staying” signing subsequently turn into a surprise S&T, but keep the faith.

 

[The_Jamal]

Is it? What is he going to say at this point?

I’m not saying it is happening but let say his agent put something like that together. After the Dante fiasco they aren’t going to say this is really a cover for a sign and trade.

especially if the deal looked like this:

Sac trades: Monk, Huerter and 13
Sac Receives: Ingram and 19

New Orleans trades: Ingram, McCollum, 17, Lakers 1st 2025
New Orleans Receives: Monk, filler, 13

Charlotte:
Receives: Huerter, McCollum, Lakers 1st
Trades: Filler.

I mean, this is just something you pull on 2k, not anything in reality. The trade aside, Monk's scenario literally will never play out with him getting S&T to another team. I'd bet everyone on this forums life savings on that

 

[Capt. Factorial]

I mean, this is just something you pull on 2k, not anything in reality. The trade aside, Monk's scenario literally will never play out with him getting S&T to another team. I'd bet everyone on this forums life savings on that

Gee, thanks!

 

[funkykingston]

Is it? What is he going to say at this point?

What's he going to say? How about "**** you Monte, I'll take more money and likely my choice of a couple teams vs being forced to go to New Orleans."

In short, we'd get nothing and burn bridges with not only Monk and his agent(s) but make any other player think twice before agreeing to ever sign with this iteration of the Kings front office.

 

[The_Jamal]

Gee, thanks!

Guarantee win!

 

[Capt. Factorial]

Guarantee win!

Sure, but the winnings and $5 wouldn’t buy you a cup of coffee.

 

[Jdbraver137]

Gee, thanks!

No free agent would ever re-up here again.

 

[twslam07]

No free agent would ever re-up here again.

I don’t think that’s what Capt was saying…

 

[sactowndog]

I have never seen a deal announced as a “he’s staying” signing subsequently turn into a surprise S&T, but keep the faith.

it’s not really faith. Just saying it isn’t really disqualifying because he can’t really say anything else.

 

[sactowndog]

What's he going to say? How about "**** you Monte, I'll take more money and likely my choice of a couple teams vs being forced to go to New Orleans."

In short, we'd get nothing and burn bridges with not only Monk and his agent(s) but make any other player think twice before agreeing to ever sign with this iteration of the Kings front office.

guys you are missing the point.

if this were happening it would have been facilitated by Malik’s agent to allow him to start on a play-off level team. No one is saying do this behind Monks back. I’m just asking is it a possibility it could be in play.

 

[funkykingston]

guys you are missing the point.

if this were happening it would have been facilitated by Malik’s agent to allow him to start on a play-off level team. No one is saying do this behind Monks back. I’m just asking is it a possibility it could be in play.

And the answer is no.

 

[kingsfan101]

For those willing to trade Davion for #22 (or worse), here are the #22 picks from 2014 to 2020 (not including latter ones, since some might see a significant change over the next few years).

• 2014: Jordan Adams (currently playing in Indonesia)
• 2015: Bobby Portis (decent player, but currently on his 4th team)
• 2016: Malachi Richardson (Kings' fans are familiar with his. Currently playing in Indonesia)
• 2017: Jarrett Allen (1x All-Star so far)
• 2018: Chandler Hutchison (currently playing in G-league)
• 2019: Grant Williams (no significant achievement as a player; currently on his 3rd team)
• 2020: Zeke Nnaji (Has not been able to contribute significantly in a stacked Nuggets team)

Out of 7 players, 3 are out of the league, only 2 are playing with the teams that drafted them, and one made the All-Star team. A case can be made for Bobby for having a good career so far, but it was only after several years, and with his 4th team.

All in all, I think trading Davion to Phoenix would be a mistake. I understand that draft picks give you the possibility of a home run, but you are more likely to strike out. Plus, the first few years are very cheap. However, even if we do make a good pick, history suggests he will shine elsewhere. With Davion, you are assured of a solid single at least. By contrast, Suns will get a decent backup who plays great on-ball defense, improved his outside shot, and might see more time on a team often plagued by injuries. Do folks want to help out a team that will be competing with us for playoffs?

That said, I do agree that we need to address our roster imbalance. Swapping out guard(s) for front court help is clearly the way to go. I suspect that Monte would like to go for more established players instead of rolling the dice in the draft. A rookie, even a good one, is not expected to make a significant difference the first couple of years (I know there are exceptions, including Keegan, but that's rare).

 

[Capt. Factorial]

it’s not really faith. Just saying it isn’t really disqualifying because he can’t really say anything else.

But he wouldn't have to say anything at all. If a S&T had been worked out, they would either say they had worked out a S&T, or they wouldn't announce anything at all until it was time.

The "We re-signed Monk...PSYCH!" announcement would be 100% unprecedented and would serve literally no purpose.

 

[twslam07]

For those willing to trade Davion for #22 (or worse), here are the #22 picks from 2014 to 2020 (not including latter ones, since some might see a significant change over the next few years).

• 2014: Jordan Adams (currently playing in Indonesia)
• 2015: Bobby Portis (decent player, but currently on his 4th team)
• 2016: Malachi Richardson (Kings' fans are familiar with his. Currently playing in Indonesia)
• 2017: Jarrett Allen (1x All-Star so far)
• 2018: Chandler Hutchison (currently playing in G-league)
• 2019: Grant Williams (no significant achievement as a player; currently on his 3rd team)
• 2020: Zeke Nnaji (Has not been able to contribute significantly in a stacked Nuggets team)

Out of 7 players, 3 are out of the league, only 2 are playing with the teams that drafted them, and one made the All-Star team. A case can be made for Bobby for having a good career so far, but it was only after several years, and with his 4th team.

All in all, I think trading Davion to Phoenix would be a mistake. I understand that draft picks give you the possibility of a home run, but you are more likely to strike out. Plus, the first few years are very cheap. However, even if we do make a good pick, history suggests he will shine elsewhere. With Davion, you are assured of a solid single at least. By contrast, Suns will get a decent backup who plays great on-ball defense, improved his outside shot, and might see more time on a team often plagued by injuries. Do folks want to help out a team that will be competing with us for playoffs?

That said, I do agree that we need to address our roster imbalance. Swapping out guard(s) for front court help is clearly the way to go. I suspect that Monte would like to go for more established players instead of rolling the dice in the draft. A rookie, even a good one, is not expected to make a significant difference the first couple of years (I know there are exceptions, including Keegan, but that's rare).

Are you claiming that Grant Williams was a bust at #22?

 

[The_Jamal]

For those willing to trade Davion for #22 (or worse), here are the #22 picks from 2014 to 2020 (not including latter ones, since some might see a significant change over the next few years).

• 2014: Jordan Adams (currently playing in Indonesia)
• 2015: Bobby Portis (decent player, but currently on his 4th team)
• 2016: Malachi Richardson (Kings' fans are familiar with his. Currently playing in Indonesia)
• 2017: Jarrett Allen (1x All-Star so far)
• 2018: Chandler Hutchison (currently playing in G-league)
• 2019: Grant Williams (no significant achievement as a player; currently on his 3rd team)
• 2020: Zeke Nnaji (Has not been able to contribute significantly in a stacked Nuggets team)

Out of 7 players, 3 are out of the league, only 2 are playing with the teams that drafted them, and one made the All-Star team. A case can be made for Bobby for having a good career so far, but it was only after several years, and with his 4th team.

All in all, I think trading Davion to Phoenix would be a mistake. I understand that draft picks give you the possibility of a home run, but you are more likely to strike out. Plus, the first few years are very cheap. However, even if we do make a good pick, history suggests he will shine elsewhere. With Davion, you are assured of a solid single at least. By contrast, Suns will get a decent backup who plays great on-ball defense, improved his outside shot, and might see more time on a team often plagued by injuries. Do folks want to help out a team that will be competing with us for playoffs?

That said, I do agree that we need to address our roster imbalance. Swapping out guard(s) for front court help is clearly the way to go. I suspect that Monte would like to go for more established players instead of rolling the dice in the draft. A rookie, even a good one, is not expected to make a significant difference the first couple of years (I know there are exceptions, including Keegan, but that's rare).

I think we probably need to add a 2nd or two, but the value is fair.

The issue isn't Davion, especially final 25 games Davion, can't be a good player. It's we're now heading into the final year of his rookie deal and you all of a sudden have to make a decision on him. With Fox/Keegan/Keon all needing extensions within the next 2 years as well. You really don't want to be put to a decision next off-season where a struggling team sees a buy-low opportunity and offers him like a 4/40 deal. Especially if he continues his success from the end of last year.

Monk more than proved he can the primary playmaker when Fox is off the floor and Davion actually got better too when Monk really took on that role. Getting another rookie scale deal gives us another shot at some future upside and a shot at a core rotation piece around our top 4 (maybe 5 with Keon).

The top 3 guard rotation is already pretty well set to take at least 100+ MPG. We still have Huerter on the team, even though everyone thinks he's going to be traded. Colby Jones very easily could slot in as a 4th guard if needed. There's a pile of vet min guys you can slot in for a 4th guard.

Also doesn't hurt that rookie scale contracts are going to be worth their weight in gold moving forward. Getting a reset on that rookie scale contract does matter.

Not that I think it'll necessarily be for the PHX pick, but I do think Davion is a pretty likely trade candidate, even if his name isn't popping up in rumors right now. There's a real risk you lose him for nothing next off-season. I just don't see how you commit like 30mil+ to your back-up guards. And not to mention, the starting back-up is due for a raise next off-season too.

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

Do folks want to help out a team that will be competing with us for playoffs?

If they help us out more. Sure.

If you limit your trade options to only eastern conference and rebuilding teams in the west, that cuts out about 12 teams

 

[sactowndog]

But he wouldn't have to say anything at all. If a S&T had been worked out, they would either say they had worked out a S&T, or they wouldn't announce anything at all until it was time.

The "We re-signed Monk...PSYCH!" announcement would be 100% unprecedented and would serve literally no purpose.

they would not say they had worked out a sign and trade unless they wanted to revisit tampering allegations.

did they announce it or did Woj announce it? I have seen nothing but a Woj announcement.

again I am not saying we should do this. And I am certainly not saying do this behind Monk’s back. What I am asking is it possible there could be more beneath the service here. What I am hearing is yeah it’s possible…..

 

[sactowndog]

I think we probably need to add a 2nd or two, but the value is fair.

The issue isn't Davion, especially final 25 games Davion, can't be a good player. It's we're now heading into the final year of his rookie deal and you all of a sudden have to make a decision on him. With Fox/Keegan/Keon all needing extensions within the next 2 years as well. You really don't want to be put to a decision next off-season where a struggling team sees a buy-low opportunity and offers him like a 4/40 deal. Especially if he continues his success from the end of last year.

Monk more than proved he can the primary playmaker when Fox is off the floor and Davion actually got better too when Monk really took on that role. Getting another rookie scale deal gives us another shot at some future upside and a shot at a core rotation piece around our top 4 (maybe 5 with Keon).

The top 3 guard rotation is already pretty well set to take at least 100+ MPG. We still have Huerter on the team, even though everyone thinks he's going to be traded. Colby Jones very easily could slot in as a 4th guard if needed. There's a pile of vet min guys you can slot in for a 4th guard.

Also doesn't hurt that rookie scale contracts are going to be worth their weight in gold moving forward. Getting a reset on that rookie scale contract does matter.

Not that I think it'll necessarily be for the PHX pick, but I do think Davion is a pretty likely trade candidate, even if his name isn't popping up in rumors right now. There's a real risk you lose him for nothing next off-season. I just don't see how you commit like 30mil+ to your back-up guards. And not to mention, the starting back-up is due for a raise next off-season too.

In the minutes to distribute you left out Duarte also. Davion has been a loyal soldier. If we sigh Monk (and the S&T is not hiding under the surface) I’m good with send Davion to a good situation. Funny enough Pheonix fans on RealGM are like nah. I’m like are you Fing kidding me.

 

[sactowndog]

And the answer is no.

the answer to could it be a possibility is: yes it is within the CBA rules.

You may perceive it has not been done or it has very small to non existent probabilities and that is fine. But my question is was it possible.

a Kings roster of

Fox / Davion
Keon / Jones
Ingram / Barnes
Murray / Lyles
Sabonis / Len

would be a pretty good roster.

 

[Jdbraver137]

the answer to could it be a possibility is: yes it is within the CBA rules.

You may perceive it has not been done or it has very small to non existent probabilities and that is fine. But my question is was it possible.

a Kings roster of

Fox / Davion
Keon / Jones
Ingram / Barnes
Murray / Lyles
Sabonis / Len

would be a pretty good roster.

There is none capable of running the 2nd team. Davion is not a creator. Sabonis and fox would be run into the ground.

 

[sactowndog]

There is none capable of running the 2nd team. Davion is not a creator. Sabonis and fox would be run into the ground.

I think Davion may be better than you think. We also have Ford but I agree it’s a small probability so I’m not going to spend much time on the line up

 

[midtowner]

Davion really turned the corner the last 3rd of the season. He finally figured out how to play off of Sabonis. Besides the solid shooting numbers (except for ?!!:$/:&/!?!!! free throws), he starts making plays for other taking it to the rack.

Our 4 guard rotation is solid with Davion being #4. I can see him being a trade chip - but only if the Kings are getting a starter back (like 13, Davion and Duarte for Kuzma and 26). I think Davion will also be valuable at the trade deadline.

 

[Section 101]

it’s not really faith. Just saying it isn’t really disqualifying because he can’t really say anything else.

Anything else would be tampering at this point.

 

[Section 101]

they would not say they had worked out a sign and trade unless they wanted to revisit tampering allegations.

did they announce it or did Woj announce it? I have seen nothing but a Woj announcement.

again I am not saying we should do this. And I am certainly not saying do this behind Monk’s back. What I am asking is it possible there could be more beneath the service here. What I am hearing is yeah it’s possible…..

You can't do it behind Monks back . He would have to want to go to the Pels. Sign and trades come from players wanting to go there, not teams trying to trade a player.

 

[kingsfan101]

Are you claiming that Grant Williams was a bust at #22?

Please reread my comments.

What I'm highlighting is that it's more likely that the selected player will be out of the league or contributing to some other team, than being a major part of your team. Contributing to some other team may not always be bad, particularly if you have traded him to get something of value, but often, that's not the case.

Once again, I'm not against trading Davion. Quite the opposite in fact. From a value perspective, I think trading him for #22 is a bad idea. It helps Suns much more in the short and medium term, while promising us little in the long term.

Yes, I understand that he will need to get paid (someone else likely will if we don't, and we might lose him for nothing) as against the fact that the rookie scale contract will allow us to take a flyer on a young player, and hope he develops. That said, I do hope that we can combine some of our guard depth to get some FC help with some established players instead.

Needless to say, easier said than done.