Can We Show Some Love for Davion?
- Thread starter hrdboild
- Start date
I just don't understand why these advanced impact stats matter more to you than the simple fact, stated in your post, that Mitchell is elite at keeping ballhandlers in front of him. Isn't that the definition of individual defense?
To elaborate, yes of course you can screen him off the ballhandler or you can defeat his best defensive skill by simply passing the ball to an open player -- but for me that is the point. If we had 5 defenders who were all as good as Davion at that individual defensive skill of denying dribble penetration then the team defense would not be so easily defeated with screens and swing passes because you would be screening off Davion only to then need to beat another Davion. There's no great mystery in terms of how NBA offense works. As the defender, if you can't get over a screen or quickly slip under and recover than the screener's defender is supposed to take over. Being unable to teleport through a human barrier doesn't make you a poor defender -- it means you've done your job and now your teammate needs to take over and apply the same level of defensive pressure until you force a miss, a turnover, or a shot-clock violation.
I also don't think that's his only defensive skill. Davion is the one guy on the team who consistently closes out hard on shooters forcing them off the three point line. He lacks the length to block the shot but isn't that -- going for the block instead of denying the open shot -- the flashy unnecessary play? He's also not selling out on the shot -- he's intentionally closing out in a way that forces the would-be shooter into the help defender. Stats may see this as a blow-by, I see it as the right defensive play.
I've made this point in the game thread before but when you coach team defense the idea isn't to take one guy and have him blow up the other team's sets single handily. The idea, rather, is to use all 5 defenders to cover for each other so that there are no easy lanes to the basket, there are no open shots. By focusing only on steals, blocks, and rebounds you would be ignoring the other 4 guys on the floor who all contributed to that singular outcome. Often steals come because the off-ball defenders are able to deny the passing lanes and blocks come because the off-ball defender is able to shadow the play and capitalize at the last moment. In order to be in position to rebound the ball you need one of your teammates to first contest the shot. There are exceptional defensive plays where individual talent wins out but to sustain 48 minutes of defense you need guys working together.
The correct way to look at individual defense is how well does one guy's play contribute to a positive result for the team defense. When I see the Kings play defense without Davion on the floor, the Kings players are mostly reacting to the offense but not directing it in any way. What makes Davion such a good defender in my eyes is that he is dictating to the the offensive player where he will allow them to go. What happens from there is really up to the other 4 defenders on the floor. Defensive plays need to end in stops -- no one is arguing against that. And for the Kings, hardly any defensive plays are ending in stops. This is where we need to improve as a team. Whether the stats show it or not, any time I see Davion on the floor he is making decisions that should lead to stops. If we're already bad at defense, I just can't see how we improve by playing him less, or by trading him.
To elaborate, yes of course you can screen him off the ballhandler or you can defeat his best defensive skill by simply passing the ball to an open player -- but for me that is the point. If we had 5 defenders who were all as good as Davion at that individual defensive skill of denying dribble penetration then the team defense would not be so easily defeated with screens and swing passes because you would be screening off Davion only to then need to beat another Davion. There's no great mystery in terms of how NBA offense works. As the defender, if you can't get over a screen or quickly slip under and recover than the screener's defender is supposed to take over. Being unable to teleport through a human barrier doesn't make you a poor defender -- it means you've done your job and now your teammate needs to take over and apply the same level of defensive pressure until you force a miss, a turnover, or a shot-clock violation.
I also don't think that's his only defensive skill. Davion is the one guy on the team who consistently closes out hard on shooters forcing them off the three point line. He lacks the length to block the shot but isn't that -- going for the block instead of denying the open shot -- the flashy unnecessary play? He's also not selling out on the shot -- he's intentionally closing out in a way that forces the would-be shooter into the help defender. Stats may see this as a blow-by, I see it as the right defensive play.
I've made this point in the game thread before but when you coach team defense the idea isn't to take one guy and have him blow up the other team's sets single handily. The idea, rather, is to use all 5 defenders to cover for each other so that there are no easy lanes to the basket, there are no open shots. By focusing only on steals, blocks, and rebounds you would be ignoring the other 4 guys on the floor who all contributed to that singular outcome. Often steals come because the off-ball defenders are able to deny the passing lanes and blocks come because the off-ball defender is able to shadow the play and capitalize at the last moment. In order to be in position to rebound the ball you need one of your teammates to first contest the shot. There are exceptional defensive plays where individual talent wins out but to sustain 48 minutes of defense you need guys working together.
The correct way to look at individual defense is how well does one guy's play contribute to a positive result for the team defense. When I see the Kings play defense without Davion on the floor, the Kings players are mostly reacting to the offense but not directing it in any way. What makes Davion such a good defender in my eyes is that he is dictating to the the offensive player where he will allow them to go. What happens from there is really up to the other 4 defenders on the floor. Defensive plays need to end in stops -- no one is arguing against that. And for the Kings, hardly any defensive plays are ending in stops. This is where we need to improve as a team. Whether the stats show it or not, any time I see Davion on the floor he is making decisions that should lead to stops. If we're already bad at defense, I just can't see how we improve by playing him less, or by trading him.
Well the easy answer to this question is that they are supposed to factor in your entire defensive impact on the floor vs. how good you are at one defensive skill. I would say that matters and should be considered when assessing his defense.
And I would say there is more to individual defense than just keeping your man in front of you. Defending without fouling, picking your man’s pocket, contesting his shot, etc. all play a role in individual defense as well. But this is sort of my point…the “flashiness” is what you call his individual defense (keeping his man in front of him) when we both know there is much more to defense than just keeping your man in front of you in a 1-on-1 setting.
See I wouldn’t consider those two things to be similar. One of those plays neutralizes his best defensive skill (being screened) and the other is either a positive result from his defense (offensive player couldn’t get by him so he passes it out) or a negative result from his defense (offensive player actually gets a step on Davion, defense rotates, and he passes it to an “open man” for a good look) depending on which scenario you actually mean.
If Mitchell is denying penetration to the point where the offense needs to pass the ball out, reset, etc., that’s a good play and should lead to a less efficient shot at a higher rate. If he (in a team concept) is helping produce less efficient shots, that would be captured in these advanced defense impact stats. If I consider these stats, it seems you’re suggesting that Mitchell is not only doing his job at a very high level, but that his teammates just so happen to play much worse defense when Mitchell is coincidentally on the floor. That’s either extremely unlucky or something else is going on.
If we had 5 players who could stay in front of their man like Mitchell, my question would be how big/long are these 5 players? Are they all Mitchell’s size? Do they have normal size at each position but only are able to stay in front of the man at their position? You’re going to be attacked on the offensive end in very different ways depending on the answer to that question. It’s not as simple as “you’d be met with another Davion.” If that other Davion is the same height/length, you’re creating a size mismatch. If that other Davion is larger but is not as good at staying in front of his man against PGs, that “other Davion” is not going to be able to contain dribble penetration as well.
Again, this comes back to the point I was making. Mitchell has below average size/length already at PG (that size/length difference becomes even more dramatic if he has to switch onto a SG, SF, etc.) which makes his ability to defend from the side or behind (in a PnR situation) less effective.
Again, why do we play Murray as the POA defender at the top of the zone and put Mitchell on the wing? I think Mitchell is better at keeping his man in front of him but there is more to defensive than simply keeping your man in front of you (especially in team defense). Now Murray is not bad at keeping his man in front of him but his size/length allows him to still disrupt the offensive player from the side or from behind if a team decides to set a screen at the top of the key (where most PnRs are initiated).
But let’s come back to Davion again. Let’s say a team puts Mitchell and Sabonis in the PnR and they end up switching outright. How is the efficiency of that play any different than when Fox and Sabonis are put in the PnR and they end up switching outright? In theory, that would lead to a play of similar efficiency and therefore be considered/captured in the advanced impact stats.
Now oftentimes the Kings won’t switch which leads to Sabonis helping for a bit and then trying to recover to his man. This is where Mitchell’s lack of size/length comes into play more. At that point, as a team/duo, you’re trying to make it difficult for the ball handler while also not letting Sabonis’ man get too free. Mitchell’s size/length makes it difficult to close off those passing gaps, and to contest/pressure if he tries to shoot.
At a certain point, your size/length impacts how good of a defender you can be. Especially as more and more bigger/longer players have “guard” skills in the league.
I wouldn’t necessarily disagree with this. God knows we need to run shooters off the 3PT line.
And by no means have I claimed counting stats to be the end all, be all when it comes to defense. Again, that was the icing to my posts cake that was simply showing that he doesn’t really have good counting stats that represent ending a possession (and ending possessions is obviously an important part of defense). The advanced impact stats are supposed to take into account the overall team performance as you described above.
That’s all well and good, but if he is making decisions that should lead to stops (vs. someone like Fox) then that should result in the other team taking more inefficient shots vs. when someone else is out on the floor, but those advanced impact stats which aim to capture that very thing don’t seem to be suggesting that.
Again, I think a lot of this boils down to his size/length and how that works in a team defense. If we were talking about a 1-on-1 pickup game against Steph Curry, I think Mitchell would be one of the best defensive options to choose but obviously the NBA isn’t a 1-on-1 game. A lot of his defensive impact also comes down to how effective he can be in a PnR, when he is the one that needs to switch/rotate onto bigger players, etc. and that’s the “unflashy” part that we may be overlooking (myself included) when watching him play.
And I would say there is more to individual defense than just keeping your man in front of you. Defending without fouling, picking your man’s pocket, contesting his shot, etc. all play a role in individual defense as well. But this is sort of my point…the “flashiness” is what you call his individual defense (keeping his man in front of him) when we both know there is much more to defense than just keeping your man in front of you in a 1-on-1 setting.
See I wouldn’t consider those two things to be similar. One of those plays neutralizes his best defensive skill (being screened) and the other is either a positive result from his defense (offensive player couldn’t get by him so he passes it out) or a negative result from his defense (offensive player actually gets a step on Davion, defense rotates, and he passes it to an “open man” for a good look) depending on which scenario you actually mean.
If Mitchell is denying penetration to the point where the offense needs to pass the ball out, reset, etc., that’s a good play and should lead to a less efficient shot at a higher rate. If he (in a team concept) is helping produce less efficient shots, that would be captured in these advanced defense impact stats. If I consider these stats, it seems you’re suggesting that Mitchell is not only doing his job at a very high level, but that his teammates just so happen to play much worse defense when Mitchell is coincidentally on the floor. That’s either extremely unlucky or something else is going on.
If we had 5 players who could stay in front of their man like Mitchell, my question would be how big/long are these 5 players? Are they all Mitchell’s size? Do they have normal size at each position but only are able to stay in front of the man at their position? You’re going to be attacked on the offensive end in very different ways depending on the answer to that question. It’s not as simple as “you’d be met with another Davion.” If that other Davion is the same height/length, you’re creating a size mismatch. If that other Davion is larger but is not as good at staying in front of his man against PGs, that “other Davion” is not going to be able to contain dribble penetration as well.
Again, this comes back to the point I was making. Mitchell has below average size/length already at PG (that size/length difference becomes even more dramatic if he has to switch onto a SG, SF, etc.) which makes his ability to defend from the side or behind (in a PnR situation) less effective.
Again, why do we play Murray as the POA defender at the top of the zone and put Mitchell on the wing? I think Mitchell is better at keeping his man in front of him but there is more to defensive than simply keeping your man in front of you (especially in team defense). Now Murray is not bad at keeping his man in front of him but his size/length allows him to still disrupt the offensive player from the side or from behind if a team decides to set a screen at the top of the key (where most PnRs are initiated).
But let’s come back to Davion again. Let’s say a team puts Mitchell and Sabonis in the PnR and they end up switching outright. How is the efficiency of that play any different than when Fox and Sabonis are put in the PnR and they end up switching outright? In theory, that would lead to a play of similar efficiency and therefore be considered/captured in the advanced impact stats.
Now oftentimes the Kings won’t switch which leads to Sabonis helping for a bit and then trying to recover to his man. This is where Mitchell’s lack of size/length comes into play more. At that point, as a team/duo, you’re trying to make it difficult for the ball handler while also not letting Sabonis’ man get too free. Mitchell’s size/length makes it difficult to close off those passing gaps, and to contest/pressure if he tries to shoot.
At a certain point, your size/length impacts how good of a defender you can be. Especially as more and more bigger/longer players have “guard” skills in the league.
I wouldn’t necessarily disagree with this. God knows we need to run shooters off the 3PT line.
And by no means have I claimed counting stats to be the end all, be all when it comes to defense. Again, that was the icing to my posts cake that was simply showing that he doesn’t really have good counting stats that represent ending a possession (and ending possessions is obviously an important part of defense). The advanced impact stats are supposed to take into account the overall team performance as you described above.
That’s all well and good, but if he is making decisions that should lead to stops (vs. someone like Fox) then that should result in the other team taking more inefficient shots vs. when someone else is out on the floor, but those advanced impact stats which aim to capture that very thing don’t seem to be suggesting that.
Again, I think a lot of this boils down to his size/length and how that works in a team defense. If we were talking about a 1-on-1 pickup game against Steph Curry, I think Mitchell would be one of the best defensive options to choose but obviously the NBA isn’t a 1-on-1 game. A lot of his defensive impact also comes down to how effective he can be in a PnR, when he is the one that needs to switch/rotate onto bigger players, etc. and that’s the “unflashy” part that we may be overlooking (myself included) when watching him play.
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Well it’s a damned if you do, damned if you don’t situation then.
Due to his lack of size/length, if he doesn’t close out hard enough, the player will simply rise up and shoot (knowing he’s not a threat to contest). If he does close out hard enough, the player puts it on the deck.
Considering we’re last in opponent 3P%, I’m not going to claim that this is one of Mitchell’s biggest problems. I’m fine with that choice knowing his limitations but obviously there are other defenders out there where you don’t really have to make that choice and can close out effectively while still preventing blow bys.
Due to his lack of size/length, if he doesn’t close out hard enough, the player will simply rise up and shoot (knowing he’s not a threat to contest). If he does close out hard enough, the player puts it on the deck.
Considering we’re last in opponent 3P%, I’m not going to claim that this is one of Mitchell’s biggest problems. I’m fine with that choice knowing his limitations but obviously there are other defenders out there where you don’t really have to make that choice and can close out effectively while still preventing blow bys.
Eh, not really. My organized team basketball days ended in high school when I was still pretty small so I was basically a guard by default but I had small forward skills. I did get a lot of blocks when people tried to go right at me but a lot of the time I had Harrison Barnes disease out on the court -- I was just thinking too much out there.
There's a lot to respond to here. I think part of the problem with the advanced stats is that Mitchell has been primarily playing with the second unit and our second unit this season, almost to a man, is made up of players who range from bad to atrocious on defense. When he was out on the floor with Ellis, Edwards, Jones, and Len for the second half of the 4th quarter in the blowout win against Denver, that entire group looked very impressive on both ends of the floor. Unfortunately, most of these guys have barely been in the rotation this year.
I also think there's been a general problem with our defensive scheme overhelping on drives even when that help defender isn't really needed. That's led to a lot of wide open three point shots which should be avoidable. IF a player wants to pull up from midrange and shoot over a smaller guard like Davion that's almost always a tougher shot than a wide open set shot. Yet for some reason we've collectively decided as a team that we're going to attack players with doubles in the midrange at the expensive of leaving shooters lightly defended. If you think about that kind of play statistically, it's going to result in a higher percentage of 3pt makes which is the worst outcome for the defense. In almost every case the guy at fault isn't the PoA defender, it's the off-ball defender who gets caught in the middle.
Your scenario where Fox and Mitchell are running the PnR with Sabonis is accurate in theory -- if one of the them does a better job recovering off the screen that should show up in the advanced stats. But it feels misleading to me to imply this has been the case when I haven't seen Mitchell and Sabonis sharing the floor all that much. Replace Sabonis, one of the better decision-makers in the league as the defending big man in PnR situations with Trey Lyles, one of the worst. How does that impact the statistical outcome? Fox and Mitchell are not being graded on the same scale here. Sample size has to be accounted for in any statistical analysis.
Ultimately I think the general attitude around here has been that Davion is too small to be an impact defender. I don't think this squares with what I see on the court. He isn't getting routinely iso'ed and posted up because big men rarely even know how to post up anymore. Every team in the league is out there hunting three-pointers instead. The right strategy to employ at this point in time, if you ask me, is to put someone on the lead ballhandler who can deny dribble penetration well enough to keep your other 4 defenders home on what are most likely good to elite shooters. Let them shoot over your defense instead of rotating everything and leaving guys wide open.
The problem here is a combination of poor defensive game-planning (the aforementioned over-emphasis on collapsing the defense into the paint) and a lack of wing defenders with the length and agility to deny passing lanes and contest jump shots. We need to solve both of those problems but we also need to Fox and Mitchell to continue to apply pressure on ballhandlers. We're failing as a team defense -- all the defensive metrics show that. Trying to assign individual blame based on those same defensive metrics is a much thornier issue for me. One that I don't think the current metrics are fully capable of.
Well the easy answer to this question is that they are supposed to factor in your entire defensive impact on the floor vs. how good you are at one defensive skill. I would say that matters and should be considered when assessing his defense.
And I would say there is more to individual defense than just keeping your man in front of you. Defending without fouling, picking your man’s pocket, contesting his shot, etc. all play a role in individual defense as well. But this is sort of my point…the “flashiness” is what you call his individual defense (keeping his man in front of him) when we both know there is much more to defense than just keeping your man in front of you in a 1-on-1 setting.
See I wouldn’t consider those two things to be similar. One of those plays neutralizes his best defensive skill (being screened) and the other is either a positive result from his defense (offensive player couldn’t get by him so he passes it out) or a negative result from his defense (offensive player actually gets a step on Davion, defense rotates, and he passes it to an “open man” for a good look) depending on which scenario you actually mean.
If Mitchell is denying penetration to the point where the offense needs to pass the ball out, reset, etc., that’s a good play and should lead to a less efficient shot at a higher rate. If he (in a team concept) is helping produce less efficient shots, that would be captured in these advanced defense impact stats. If I consider these stats, it seems you’re suggesting that Mitchell is not only doing his job at a very high level, but that his teammates just so happen to play much worse defense when Mitchell is coincidentally on the floor. That’s either extremely unlucky or something else is going on.
If we had 5 players who could stay in front of their man like Mitchell, my question would be how big/long are these 5 players? Are they all Mitchell’s size? Do they have normal size at each position but only are able to stay in front of the man at their position? You’re going to be attacked on the offensive end in very different ways depending on the answer to that question. It’s not as simple as “you’d be met with another Davion.” If that other Davion is the same height/length, you’re creating a size mismatch. If that other Davion is larger but is not as good at staying in front of his man against PGs, that “other Davion” is not going to be able to contain dribble penetration as well.
Again, this comes back to the point I was making. Mitchell has below average size/length already at PG (that size/length difference becomes even more dramatic if he has to switch onto a SG, SF, etc.) which makes his ability to defend from the side or behind (in a PnR situation) less effective.
Again, why do we play Murray as the POA defender at the top of the zone and put Mitchell on the wing? I think Mitchell is better at keeping his man in front of him but there is more to defensive than simply keeping your man in front of you (especially in team defense). Now Murray is not bad at keeping his man in front of him but his size/length allows him to still disrupt the offensive player from the side or from behind if a team decides to set a screen at the top of the key (where most PnRs are initiated).
But let’s come back to Davion again. Let’s say a team puts Mitchell and Sabonis in the PnR and they end up switching outright. How is the efficiency of that play any different than when Fox and Sabonis are put in the PnR and they end up switching outright? In theory, that would lead to a play of similar efficiency and therefore be considered/captured in the advanced impact stats.
Now oftentimes the Kings won’t switch which leads to Sabonis helping for a bit and then trying to recover to his man. This is where Mitchell’s lack of size/length comes into play more. At that point, as a team/duo, you’re trying to make it difficult for the ball handler while also not letting Sabonis’ man get too free. Mitchell’s size/length makes it difficult to close off those passing gaps, and to contest/pressure if he tries to shoot.
At a certain point, your size/length impacts how good of a defender you can be. Especially as more and more bigger/longer players have “guard” skills in the league.
I wouldn’t necessarily disagree with this. God knows we need to run shooters off the 3PT line.
And by no means have I claimed counting stats to be the end all, be all when it comes to defense. Again, that was the icing to my posts cake that was simply showing that he doesn’t really have good counting stats that represent ending a possession (and ending possessions is obviously an important part of defense). The advanced impact stats are supposed to take into account the overall team performance as you described above.
That’s all well and good, but if he is making decisions that should lead to stops (vs. someone like Fox) then that should result in the other team taking more inefficient shots vs. when someone else is out on the floor, but those advanced impact stats which aim to capture that very thing don’t seem to be suggesting that.
Again, I think a lot of this boils down to his size/length and how that works in a team defense. If we were talking about a 1-on-1 pickup game against Steph Curry, I think Mitchell would be one of the best defensive options to choose but obviously the NBA isn’t a 1-on-1 game. A lot of his defensive impact also comes down to how effective he can be in a PnR, when he is the one that needs to switch/rotate onto bigger players, etc. and that’s the “unflashy” part that we may be overlooking (myself included) when watching him play.
And I would say there is more to individual defense than just keeping your man in front of you. Defending without fouling, picking your man’s pocket, contesting his shot, etc. all play a role in individual defense as well. But this is sort of my point…the “flashiness” is what you call his individual defense (keeping his man in front of him) when we both know there is much more to defense than just keeping your man in front of you in a 1-on-1 setting.
See I wouldn’t consider those two things to be similar. One of those plays neutralizes his best defensive skill (being screened) and the other is either a positive result from his defense (offensive player couldn’t get by him so he passes it out) or a negative result from his defense (offensive player actually gets a step on Davion, defense rotates, and he passes it to an “open man” for a good look) depending on which scenario you actually mean.
If Mitchell is denying penetration to the point where the offense needs to pass the ball out, reset, etc., that’s a good play and should lead to a less efficient shot at a higher rate. If he (in a team concept) is helping produce less efficient shots, that would be captured in these advanced defense impact stats. If I consider these stats, it seems you’re suggesting that Mitchell is not only doing his job at a very high level, but that his teammates just so happen to play much worse defense when Mitchell is coincidentally on the floor. That’s either extremely unlucky or something else is going on.
If we had 5 players who could stay in front of their man like Mitchell, my question would be how big/long are these 5 players? Are they all Mitchell’s size? Do they have normal size at each position but only are able to stay in front of the man at their position? You’re going to be attacked on the offensive end in very different ways depending on the answer to that question. It’s not as simple as “you’d be met with another Davion.” If that other Davion is the same height/length, you’re creating a size mismatch. If that other Davion is larger but is not as good at staying in front of his man against PGs, that “other Davion” is not going to be able to contain dribble penetration as well.
Again, this comes back to the point I was making. Mitchell has below average size/length already at PG (that size/length difference becomes even more dramatic if he has to switch onto a SG, SF, etc.) which makes his ability to defend from the side or behind (in a PnR situation) less effective.
Again, why do we play Murray as the POA defender at the top of the zone and put Mitchell on the wing? I think Mitchell is better at keeping his man in front of him but there is more to defensive than simply keeping your man in front of you (especially in team defense). Now Murray is not bad at keeping his man in front of him but his size/length allows him to still disrupt the offensive player from the side or from behind if a team decides to set a screen at the top of the key (where most PnRs are initiated).
But let’s come back to Davion again. Let’s say a team puts Mitchell and Sabonis in the PnR and they end up switching outright. How is the efficiency of that play any different than when Fox and Sabonis are put in the PnR and they end up switching outright? In theory, that would lead to a play of similar efficiency and therefore be considered/captured in the advanced impact stats.
Now oftentimes the Kings won’t switch which leads to Sabonis helping for a bit and then trying to recover to his man. This is where Mitchell’s lack of size/length comes into play more. At that point, as a team/duo, you’re trying to make it difficult for the ball handler while also not letting Sabonis’ man get too free. Mitchell’s size/length makes it difficult to close off those passing gaps, and to contest/pressure if he tries to shoot.
At a certain point, your size/length impacts how good of a defender you can be. Especially as more and more bigger/longer players have “guard” skills in the league.
I wouldn’t necessarily disagree with this. God knows we need to run shooters off the 3PT line.
And by no means have I claimed counting stats to be the end all, be all when it comes to defense. Again, that was the icing to my posts cake that was simply showing that he doesn’t really have good counting stats that represent ending a possession (and ending possessions is obviously an important part of defense). The advanced impact stats are supposed to take into account the overall team performance as you described above.
That’s all well and good, but if he is making decisions that should lead to stops (vs. someone like Fox) then that should result in the other team taking more inefficient shots vs. when someone else is out on the floor, but those advanced impact stats which aim to capture that very thing don’t seem to be suggesting that.
Again, I think a lot of this boils down to his size/length and how that works in a team defense. If we were talking about a 1-on-1 pickup game against Steph Curry, I think Mitchell would be one of the best defensive options to choose but obviously the NBA isn’t a 1-on-1 game. A lot of his defensive impact also comes down to how effective he can be in a PnR, when he is the one that needs to switch/rotate onto bigger players, etc. and that’s the “unflashy” part that we may be overlooking (myself included) when watching him play.
I also think there's been a general problem with our defensive scheme overhelping on drives even when that help defender isn't really needed. That's led to a lot of wide open three point shots which should be avoidable. IF a player wants to pull up from midrange and shoot over a smaller guard like Davion that's almost always a tougher shot than a wide open set shot. Yet for some reason we've collectively decided as a team that we're going to attack players with doubles in the midrange at the expensive of leaving shooters lightly defended. If you think about that kind of play statistically, it's going to result in a higher percentage of 3pt makes which is the worst outcome for the defense. In almost every case the guy at fault isn't the PoA defender, it's the off-ball defender who gets caught in the middle.
Your scenario where Fox and Mitchell are running the PnR with Sabonis is accurate in theory -- if one of the them does a better job recovering off the screen that should show up in the advanced stats. But it feels misleading to me to imply this has been the case when I haven't seen Mitchell and Sabonis sharing the floor all that much. Replace Sabonis, one of the better decision-makers in the league as the defending big man in PnR situations with Trey Lyles, one of the worst. How does that impact the statistical outcome? Fox and Mitchell are not being graded on the same scale here. Sample size has to be accounted for in any statistical analysis.
Ultimately I think the general attitude around here has been that Davion is too small to be an impact defender. I don't think this squares with what I see on the court. He isn't getting routinely iso'ed and posted up because big men rarely even know how to post up anymore. Every team in the league is out there hunting three-pointers instead. The right strategy to employ at this point in time, if you ask me, is to put someone on the lead ballhandler who can deny dribble penetration well enough to keep your other 4 defenders home on what are most likely good to elite shooters. Let them shoot over your defense instead of rotating everything and leaving guys wide open.
The problem here is a combination of poor defensive game-planning (the aforementioned over-emphasis on collapsing the defense into the paint) and a lack of wing defenders with the length and agility to deny passing lanes and contest jump shots. We need to solve both of those problems but we also need to Fox and Mitchell to continue to apply pressure on ballhandlers. We're failing as a team defense -- all the defensive metrics show that. Trying to assign individual blame based on those same defensive metrics is a much thornier issue for me. One that I don't think the current metrics are fully capable of.
Davion is a capable defender. The problem is that he digressed this off season and that was probably taken as a big red flag by the organization. Elite capability is completely null in the absence of a good work ethic. I believe that the organization does not have him in long term scheme because of that. On the contrary, Keon Ellis has shown much better professionalism, has passed the rigorous test and has won the team trust. He seems to be "in" the grand scheme for the team. I was a fan of Davion but he failed to show the level of professionalism. Despite being a Davion fan, Keon serves the 'team' much better in the 'process' and the 'concept' and I am cool with it. Hope it was a good learning experience for Davion. The Kings are proving to be a good organization since early days of Geoff Petri and I hope Davion take some lessons.
Why does the conversation always seem to drift toward Davion vs. Keon? Davion is a backup PG. Keon Ellis is a 6'5" SG. He's started the past two games at SF (for Keegan Murray) and at SG (for Kevin Huerter) and thrived in both spots. I love Ellis and I hope Monte and Mike commit to making him the starting SG. We'll still need a backup PG and Davion is a damn good one when he's making his shots. No he isn't a big-time scorer and aside from a random Tony Delk memorial moment he probably won't ever be but we already have Monk for bench scoring. A guy who moves the ball, doesn't sulk if he gets limited touches, and plays his ass off on defense is a perfect fit for this team off the bench.
Unfortunately the last 4 matches he had some bad shots (a couple of airball 3s) and the only ones he made were some layups close in the paint (not all of them were easy) and I think a corner 3 vs the Bucks, getting his numbers down again. Still he hasn't missed his spot in the rotation and is not in danger of doing so because there is no other point guard at the moment besides Fox (Monk plays that role too, Ford, Colby and Mason Jones are mostly with the Stockton squad) since Keon still can't handle the ball so comfortably but he shoots the ball better.
So in 56' of action Davion had 9 points with 4/15 shots (1/11 from 3) 5 rebounds 5 assists 2 turnovers and 0 "stocks".
So in 56' of action Davion had 9 points with 4/15 shots (1/11 from 3) 5 rebounds 5 assists 2 turnovers and 0 "stocks".
