Sasha signed!!!
- Thread starter Tetsujin
- Start date
Well, I guess his role now is "jack up a three within the first 10 seconds of being subbed in". If it goes in, he might get 10-15 minutes playing time, if not - benched until garbage time comes. No more backdoor cuts, pick n' roll or DHOs.
Extremely underutilized in my opinion and he is getting more and more frustrated with MB's decision to sub him out after 1-2 minutes on the floor. He was asked to improve his defense and he started rebounding better and providing a couple of steals and blocks a night. Yet he is still the 5th ot 6th option from the bench, which can be extremely demotivating, especially for a guy who dominated the Euroleague last year...
Extremely underutilized in my opinion and he is getting more and more frustrated with MB's decision to sub him out after 1-2 minutes on the floor. He was asked to improve his defense and he started rebounding better and providing a couple of steals and blocks a night. Yet he is still the 5th ot 6th option from the bench, which can be extremely demotivating, especially for a guy who dominated the Euroleague last year...
It's not just Vezenkov getting frozen out of games right now. Mitchell, Duarte, and Vezenkov were all supposed to play big roles for us this season and all three of them are basically out of the rotation. I understand that Mike Brown is trying to develop Murray into a star and Fox has upped his shot attempts so there's less shots to go around for everyone else but that doesn't mean the bench unit should just be ignored completely. We're not going to survive in the playoffs as a 6-deep roster.
I get what you are saying but there are things that happened that lead to some of the rotation situation:
1) Keon’s emergence. No one expected him to get any minutes let alone crack the rotation but we are 14-4 in games he has played after that garbage time appearance in Houston.
2) Trey missed the first 13 games. He has been outstanding since the trade, pretty hard to not give him big minutes once he returned.
3) Keegan has graduated from the rookie mistake era and isn’t losing minutes unless he doesn’t shoot and that seems in the past as well. Shaves a few minutes off that might normally go to the bench.
most teams run 9 or 9 1/2 deep. We can’t give consistent minutes to 8 bench players so other than Monk and probably Ellis (until those advanced stats and record turn down) it is going to be difficult to give proper run to the other guys. Playing Javale only in VERY situational minutes could help for sure. Sasha is the hardest one for me to place in the proper role. I personally don’t know how to maximize his talents.
1) Keon’s emergence. No one expected him to get any minutes let alone crack the rotation but we are 14-4 in games he has played after that garbage time appearance in Houston.
2) Trey missed the first 13 games. He has been outstanding since the trade, pretty hard to not give him big minutes once he returned.
3) Keegan has graduated from the rookie mistake era and isn’t losing minutes unless he doesn’t shoot and that seems in the past as well. Shaves a few minutes off that might normally go to the bench.
most teams run 9 or 9 1/2 deep. We can’t give consistent minutes to 8 bench players so other than Monk and probably Ellis (until those advanced stats and record turn down) it is going to be difficult to give proper run to the other guys. Playing Javale only in VERY situational minutes could help for sure. Sasha is the hardest one for me to place in the proper role. I personally don’t know how to maximize his talents.
Id like more shasha less javale. We are deep enough to almost swap 5 for 5. The coaching staff needs to figure out a system once they get deep in the bench. Seems like Monk Barnes Sasha should be able to keep things going. If Sasha needs more time to get going they should find him that time. Treating him like rookie Keegan is a big mistake. His game is developed. He does what he does. Use him for that.
I think all of these players (Keon Ellis included) are dealing with variations of the same problem: the way the offense has evolved over the past few years, the only shots they are allowed to take are 3pt shots. If you're coming off the bench cold and getting 3-4 shots per game and they're almost all 3pt shots, you're pretty much doomed from a shooting splits point of view.
Davion Mitchell (rookie season) took 11.2 shots per game and only 4.3 were 3pt shots.
Davion Mitchell (this season) has taken 3.9 shots per game and 2.1 were 3pt shots.
Chris Duarte (rookie season in Indiana) took 11.3 shots and only 4.6 were 3pt shots.
Chris Duarte (this season) has taken 3.4 shots per game and 2.0 were 3pt shots.
Trey Lyles (post-trade in 2022) took 7.4 shots per game and only 2.6 were 3pt shots.
Trey Lyles (this season) has taken 5.3 shots per game and 3.9 were 3pt shots.
Keon Ellis (this season) has taken 3.4 shots per game and 2,.9 are 3pt shots.
Sasha Vezenkov (this season) has taken 4.8 shots per game and 3.0 are 3pt shots.
If they're only shooting from deep they're not getting to the line, they're not getting any high percentage looks in the paint, and they have very little opportunity to find a rhythm on offense. So while someone like Keegan Murray can have games where he goes 1-7 or 1-8 from deep, he shoots enough volume over the course of the season to still keep his average in the respectable range. Conversely, if any of our (non-Monk) bench players go 1-8 in any stretch (which could take as many as 4 games) they're out of the rotation for weeks, their confidence is shot, and fans and coaches can point to their shooting splits as if they've brought this on themselves.
I don't expect the Coach to give consistent minutes to 8 bench players nor do I expect these guys to put up big numbers. That's not the point. Right now we have 6 players who know they will get into every game, that they will get a decent volume of looks from multiple levels, and that they have permission to make mistakes as long as they play hard and try to follow the roles Coach has marked out for them. That's just not enough players to make up a full rotation. We need 9 players who have consistent roles and that means including them in the offense and not just on a "go stand in the corner" basis.
How many times over the past few weeks have we complained that the Kings were missing their 3pt shots and falling further and further behind yet they refused to change the offense and kept firing away until there wasn't enough time left to catch up? This isn't just a Kings problem. A lot of the top teams are having games where they lose by 20+ on random nights because of shooting variance. All of these players are capable of more than just spot-up shooting. All of these players should earn their spot in the rotation with their defense first and then get rewarded for their effort by having plays run for them occasionally -- not just for our big three.
What does that mean for Vezenkov specifically? He's shown that he can score on backdoor cuts, that he's above average on the offensive boards, that he can make smart passes, and that he can set screens. All of these tools should be part of the offense, not just his catch and shoot game. We're getting run off the line by defenders right now because they know we aren't going to hurt them on the inside. It's time we adjusted to those scouting reports and mixed up the offense.
Davion Mitchell (rookie season) took 11.2 shots per game and only 4.3 were 3pt shots.
Davion Mitchell (this season) has taken 3.9 shots per game and 2.1 were 3pt shots.
Chris Duarte (rookie season in Indiana) took 11.3 shots and only 4.6 were 3pt shots.
Chris Duarte (this season) has taken 3.4 shots per game and 2.0 were 3pt shots.
Trey Lyles (post-trade in 2022) took 7.4 shots per game and only 2.6 were 3pt shots.
Trey Lyles (this season) has taken 5.3 shots per game and 3.9 were 3pt shots.
Keon Ellis (this season) has taken 3.4 shots per game and 2,.9 are 3pt shots.
Sasha Vezenkov (this season) has taken 4.8 shots per game and 3.0 are 3pt shots.
If they're only shooting from deep they're not getting to the line, they're not getting any high percentage looks in the paint, and they have very little opportunity to find a rhythm on offense. So while someone like Keegan Murray can have games where he goes 1-7 or 1-8 from deep, he shoots enough volume over the course of the season to still keep his average in the respectable range. Conversely, if any of our (non-Monk) bench players go 1-8 in any stretch (which could take as many as 4 games) they're out of the rotation for weeks, their confidence is shot, and fans and coaches can point to their shooting splits as if they've brought this on themselves.
I don't expect the Coach to give consistent minutes to 8 bench players nor do I expect these guys to put up big numbers. That's not the point. Right now we have 6 players who know they will get into every game, that they will get a decent volume of looks from multiple levels, and that they have permission to make mistakes as long as they play hard and try to follow the roles Coach has marked out for them. That's just not enough players to make up a full rotation. We need 9 players who have consistent roles and that means including them in the offense and not just on a "go stand in the corner" basis.
How many times over the past few weeks have we complained that the Kings were missing their 3pt shots and falling further and further behind yet they refused to change the offense and kept firing away until there wasn't enough time left to catch up? This isn't just a Kings problem. A lot of the top teams are having games where they lose by 20+ on random nights because of shooting variance. All of these players are capable of more than just spot-up shooting. All of these players should earn their spot in the rotation with their defense first and then get rewarded for their effort by having plays run for them occasionally -- not just for our big three.
What does that mean for Vezenkov specifically? He's shown that he can score on backdoor cuts, that he's above average on the offensive boards, that he can make smart passes, and that he can set screens. All of these tools should be part of the offense, not just his catch and shoot game. We're getting run off the line by defenders right now because they know we aren't going to hurt them on the inside. It's time we adjusted to those scouting reports and mixed up the offense.
This is really good analysis. I think part of it is the primary offense the 2nd unit runs is a lot of high pick and roll with Monk. It’s a high volume of shoots from deep, or drive, penetrate, and dish out for 3. When Sabonis is not in, we don’t have someone to run the high-screen split action stuff that Keegan and Huerter benefit from. I do wonder what Sasha would look like with the starting unit
I generally agree with this other than the 6 players Brown will for sure play. It’s been pretty consistently the starting 5 and Monk, Ellis and Lyles. I’d argue the guys getting very little leash are Duarte ( he was until Keon’s emergence and his fouling got out of control) Sasha, Kessler and Davion.
part of the short leash imo is we have been getting so far down in losses that Brown can’t afford to put in a no offense player into the game when are down double digits. If any of the guys come in and aren’t going offensively he reverts back to the other guys for better or worse
part of the short leash imo is we have been getting so far down in losses that Brown can’t afford to put in a no offense player into the game when are down double digits. If any of the guys come in and aren’t going offensively he reverts back to the other guys for better or worse
Consistent playing time with Domas and Fox. Everything about Sashas skill set lines up perfectly with how Domas operates the offense and sets guys up. And of course as an elite C&S option for the Fox drive and kick.
We've seen flashes of how smart he is off ball. The issue is the 2nd unit is far more ISO based and less ball movement. That essentially turns Sasha into a corner spacer.
Everything in his minutes profile says he's been an excellent player for us. I think he just doesn't have Browns trust
We've seen flashes of how smart he is off ball. The issue is the 2nd unit is far more ISO based and less ball movement. That essentially turns Sasha into a corner spacer.
Everything in his minutes profile says he's been an excellent player for us. I think he just doesn't have Browns trust
It’s pretty simple(for me) , give him the freedom (minutes) and don’t freeze him after the first miss or first foul in defence….
He is good in finding the free spaces , he should have more playing time with Fox and sabonis , personally I will start first and 3d quarters with him for about 7/8 minutes , and depend on how game is developing some more minutes in the 4th , maybe as a start not in the deciding minutes (if he isn’t on fire of course) …
Imo we will be hurting much more in the opening minutes with Murray and Sasha who can score from almost every where instead with Huerter who can miss from everywhere or Barnes who is playing one nice game on every 6/7 played …
Barnes thought looked like a good 4th quarter player , you can give him some time in second , end of third and more in 4th , he will still get his 20/22min ….
He is good in finding the free spaces , he should have more playing time with Fox and sabonis , personally I will start first and 3d quarters with him for about 7/8 minutes , and depend on how game is developing some more minutes in the 4th , maybe as a start not in the deciding minutes (if he isn’t on fire of course) …
Imo we will be hurting much more in the opening minutes with Murray and Sasha who can score from almost every where instead with Huerter who can miss from everywhere or Barnes who is playing one nice game on every 6/7 played …
Barnes thought looked like a good 4th quarter player , you can give him some time in second , end of third and more in 4th , he will still get his 20/22min ….