[Game] Kings @ Pelicans, 11/22/2023 5pm Pacific 8pm Eastern
- Thread starter Tetsujin
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I didn't mean SL in terms of talent, but more so the mindset and the result of play that follows. During SL, almost every single player is playing for a roster spot. As a result, you get a bunch of guys trying to prove themselves and impress coaches and FOs by completely playing out of their scope. For example, you have a 3&D SF committing back to back TOs trying to drive to the basket because instead of focusing on shooting open 3s, he decides that he wants to show the coaches that he can put the ball on the floor. On the defensive side, he's evaluated as a solid sound defender, but he ditches the sound defense in order to gamble in the passing lane for steals to fill the stat sheet. This player ends up trying too hard but as a result, he ends up not giving enough. In relation to the Kings, it feels like there's some similarities.
Instead of our guys (not Fox-Sabonis) playing for a roster spot, they're playing for minutes and scoring opportunities. They're not completely buying into their roles. They're trying to do too much, and often times, it leads them to not doing enough. Some nights it works out and they breakout for 15pts 5asts. Other nights it backfires and they're sitting at the end of the bench with 7pts and 3tos. But in reality, all you want every night is a guy who comes in and gives you 10pts 2asts. You don't want to limit any players, but the expectation should be that they PLAY their roles but on some nights, they end up having bigger games than expected. It feels like they're trying to do the reverse. They're trying to have big nights every game, but it ends up not working out, so they end up having these games where they struggle. It leads to a lot of inconsistent play across the board. As a result, it feels like each game, you don't know what you're getting from them.
Maybe this is a coaching issue where Brown has a free-flowing system that allows guys fluctuate up or down depending on the game. However, I think this inconsistent play causes a lot of problems when you're not getting enough shooting from your two forwards who end up with 3-17 from 3pt (on primarily open shots) which forces De'Aaron pick up the slack by hoisting up 10s on 6-10. We won that game, but that's just not ideal.
I think we need to bring in guys who can be role players and buy into being a role player. This reminds me of WCS. He could've easily gotten paid 15mpy with a long 15-yr career if he would've just focused on defense and rebounding.
Instead of our guys (not Fox-Sabonis) playing for a roster spot, they're playing for minutes and scoring opportunities. They're not completely buying into their roles. They're trying to do too much, and often times, it leads them to not doing enough. Some nights it works out and they breakout for 15pts 5asts. Other nights it backfires and they're sitting at the end of the bench with 7pts and 3tos. But in reality, all you want every night is a guy who comes in and gives you 10pts 2asts. You don't want to limit any players, but the expectation should be that they PLAY their roles but on some nights, they end up having bigger games than expected. It feels like they're trying to do the reverse. They're trying to have big nights every game, but it ends up not working out, so they end up having these games where they struggle. It leads to a lot of inconsistent play across the board. As a result, it feels like each game, you don't know what you're getting from them.
Maybe this is a coaching issue where Brown has a free-flowing system that allows guys fluctuate up or down depending on the game. However, I think this inconsistent play causes a lot of problems when you're not getting enough shooting from your two forwards who end up with 3-17 from 3pt (on primarily open shots) which forces De'Aaron pick up the slack by hoisting up 10s on 6-10. We won that game, but that's just not ideal.
I think we need to bring in guys who can be role players and buy into being a role player. This reminds me of WCS. He could've easily gotten paid 15mpy with a long 15-yr career if he would've just focused on defense and rebounding.
The common theme or thread is they are all .500 level teams. They are a combined 22-22 (Warriors are about to lose as I type this). However, they are a combined 6-0 against the KINGS, which means they are 16-22 against everyone else.
If not for playing the KINGS (largely at home), the Warriors would be 5-9, the Rockets would be 5-6, and the Pels would be 6-7.
Meanwhile the up and down KINGS somehow managed to beat OKC, LAL (2x), DAL, and CLE, teams with a combined record of 38-23. Go figure.
It such a KINGS thing to do to own the LAL and fall down completely against the Pels and Rockets. Those teams might be “improved”, but they still aren’t great and san injuries to LBJ and AD won’t finish above them.
If not for playing the KINGS (largely at home), the Warriors would be 5-9, the Rockets would be 5-6, and the Pels would be 6-7.
Meanwhile the up and down KINGS somehow managed to beat OKC, LAL (2x), DAL, and CLE, teams with a combined record of 38-23. Go figure.
It such a KINGS thing to do to own the LAL and fall down completely against the Pels and Rockets. Those teams might be “improved”, but they still aren’t great and san injuries to LBJ and AD won’t finish above them.
To me both are similar. Great at what they do best which is shooting in Huerter's case and attacking in Barnes'. Outside of that, there are glare weaknesses. Their defense isn't that great...especially the first step anticipation. Some guys just have better knack or instinct of where the offensive player is going to go before they move....these guys don't!! They let the dribbler dictate where they want to go...a sign of a weak defense. Not just that, they're overwhelmed by athleticism, size and strength. So because of that, you don't often see them block shots, alter shots, bother shots, tip shots. And they can't do much when bigger player come in and outrebound them. This is why I had opted for the Kings to upgrade these two positions during the summer, but they believe on the success of last year and want to bring them back. Depend on match up and if either Fox or Sabonis does't have a great game, the Kings may be in trouble.
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I’ve got to watch the tape, but simplistically it feels like they clog up the middle (Sengun, Valencunias, Looney), don’t double Sabonis, and have long, athletic wings that can close and contest the 3s. I think it’s also the reason lowly Portland should have beaten us.
Fridays game is going to be telling. Whoever wins will likely get a quarterfinal spot either as the grp winner or wildcard. Minny is finally gelling and are healthy. We’ll see what team shows up and if we have that extra gear to close out the road trip strong.
Fridays game is going to be telling. Whoever wins will likely get a quarterfinal spot either as the grp winner or wildcard. Minny is finally gelling and are healthy. We’ll see what team shows up and if we have that extra gear to close out the road trip strong.
Watched the condensed game and we were beaten so badly in the paint. Zion posting up Sasha in the 2nd quarter was head-shaking to say the least. In any case, I had to look it up.
Points in the paint:
Today: Pels 62, Kings 28!!!
11/20: Pels 64, Kings 40
11/6: Rockets 50, Kings 38
11/4: Rockets 54, Kings 42
11/1: Warriors 46, Kings 38
The only loss where we controlled the paint was the first loss to Warriors sans Green. When Fox and Sabonis control the paint and are scoring, we force the defense to respect that and help out. This also frees up our shooters. Another issue is outside of Fox and Sabonis, no one else was getting to the basket today. Huerter, Barnes, Duarte, Sasha, Lyles, Monk shot mostly 3s (36 3pta vs. 11 2pta). There was no balance.
Points in the paint:
Today: Pels 62, Kings 28!!!
11/20: Pels 64, Kings 40
11/6: Rockets 50, Kings 38
11/4: Rockets 54, Kings 42
11/1: Warriors 46, Kings 38
The only loss where we controlled the paint was the first loss to Warriors sans Green. When Fox and Sabonis control the paint and are scoring, we force the defense to respect that and help out. This also frees up our shooters. Another issue is outside of Fox and Sabonis, no one else was getting to the basket today. Huerter, Barnes, Duarte, Sasha, Lyles, Monk shot mostly 3s (36 3pta vs. 11 2pta). There was no balance.
Huerter's awful shooting was a pretty big reason for the loss, and Fox did not have a good game for his newer standard - especially at the end of the game. Huereter was missing EVERYWHERE. He had a few ok rebounds but was an offensive drag. Duarte got whooped on defense and had another poorish offensive game. I liked the lineup with Mitchell, and thought Brown shoudl've stayed with it. In hindsight that change didn't work. They looked more focused with MItchell playing with Monk and Lyles which got them level. When Fox came in the team seemed to lose focus offensively. Fox had a better game than the 1st Pel game, but not good enough. Fox could not lead the team the last 5+ mins. He was forcing shots and couldn't make 3s....down 3 with less than a min left, Fox lined up a 3 but and had his defender running out, he could've easily attacked the paint or rim for 2, but he chose the 3 and missed. Barnes also missed from the corner. A bit earlier Fox missed a 10 ft jump hand hang shot, that he can make. That was about 11 pts of misses in a 5 pt loss, then throw in the 2 Sabonis FTs. Kings weer a few baskets from winning. Tough but acceptable loss.
You bring up an interesting point. All those shots Fox has been taking this season are great if they are going in. At the same time, he is not passing the ball as much. The team leaders for assists per 36 minutes are: Monk 8.2, Sabonis 7.4, Mitchell 5.8, Fox 5.4. The Kings' offense is more effective when they move the rock: passing it around and passing it fast.
Right but people aren’t getting to the bucket because Val is taking the back door cut away.
Even when Sabonis did score it was often against 2 or 3 players down low. Unless Sabonis can force his defender to come out of the paint those cuts to the basket will be hard to come by and wing defenders can overplay the 3 point shot.
with the Kings roster construction and skill set it’s a very difficult match up for us to beat.
Even when Sabonis did score it was often against 2 or 3 players down low. Unless Sabonis can force his defender to come out of the paint those cuts to the basket will be hard to come by and wing defenders can overplay the 3 point shot.
with the Kings roster construction and skill set it’s a very difficult match up for us to beat.
I agree, it’s a hole we have whenever Sabonis goes up against a center who plays way off and defends the backdoor. Sabonis is not going to chuck up 3s like Jokic, just not his game. I’m sure the front office is very aware of this which is why I’m not surprised to hear us looking at another playmaker like Lavine
Huerter was getting complaints frequently up until page 7 when he was removed from the game for good…he was lousy no doubt. As for Monk, I personally provided the complaints about Monk throughout this game thread.
And also no doubt, there is admittedly a more general boredom of HB that will magnify his mistakes even in a game where he played good.
He is the guy most think is the weak link of the starting lineup generally. Huerter would be next up after him. Huerter has big games more often and is more important feature in the system. So while his off nights are more costly than HB’s..his big or ok nights bring more rewards. In the end, they are both expected to take and make their open threes.
Also, to Huerter credit, he often finds something else to do when his shot isn’t falling. He had 7 rebounds and 2 assists in 27 minutes last night. It was nice of him to compete for rebounds on a night the Kings were -10. Barnes had 3 rebounds and 0 assists in 41 as power forward.
On nights Barnes fails to reach double figures, you rarely look at the box score and see that he pulled down 7-10 rebounds, created some turnovers, created some baskets, and people don’t see his impact, if any, on defense. It’s one of those things people will claim HB is invaluable at but I’ve honestly seen more individually impressive defense(moments and throughout a game) from every starter this season(Huerter included) than I’ve seen from HB. Granted, HB usually has one of the tougher tasks..like last night. But think of a game like the Blazers game..where Jerami Grant completely goes off on HB.
On average, HB’s offensive contributions are on the margins enough that you atleast expect him to be an above average defender to justify his work load. He isn’t. His matchups often play above their average against him.
Nevertheless, replacing HB is easier said than done. If the coaches and players think he is invaluable and didn’t think twice about re-signing him, then I’m inclined to believe HB is far more valuable than he is given credit for…but for many fans it’s hard to not think they are missing a bunch from that position.
Kings are in good shape as far as their position leading to the end of this road trip. It’s a very tough road trip with San Antonio being the only non playoff caliber team. Not in literal good shape as they are banged up. Still a chance at 4-2. That’s good after being 2-4 coming off an embarrassing loss in Houston.
I’m also encouraged with how well they have performed at home. If they build a real home court advantage coupled with .500 road play, then they should probably coast to a 50+ win season.
And also no doubt, there is admittedly a more general boredom of HB that will magnify his mistakes even in a game where he played good.
He is the guy most think is the weak link of the starting lineup generally. Huerter would be next up after him. Huerter has big games more often and is more important feature in the system. So while his off nights are more costly than HB’s..his big or ok nights bring more rewards. In the end, they are both expected to take and make their open threes.
Also, to Huerter credit, he often finds something else to do when his shot isn’t falling. He had 7 rebounds and 2 assists in 27 minutes last night. It was nice of him to compete for rebounds on a night the Kings were -10. Barnes had 3 rebounds and 0 assists in 41 as power forward.
On nights Barnes fails to reach double figures, you rarely look at the box score and see that he pulled down 7-10 rebounds, created some turnovers, created some baskets, and people don’t see his impact, if any, on defense. It’s one of those things people will claim HB is invaluable at but I’ve honestly seen more individually impressive defense(moments and throughout a game) from every starter this season(Huerter included) than I’ve seen from HB. Granted, HB usually has one of the tougher tasks..like last night. But think of a game like the Blazers game..where Jerami Grant completely goes off on HB.
On average, HB’s offensive contributions are on the margins enough that you atleast expect him to be an above average defender to justify his work load. He isn’t. His matchups often play above their average against him.
Nevertheless, replacing HB is easier said than done. If the coaches and players think he is invaluable and didn’t think twice about re-signing him, then I’m inclined to believe HB is far more valuable than he is given credit for…but for many fans it’s hard to not think they are missing a bunch from that position.
Kings are in good shape as far as their position leading to the end of this road trip. It’s a very tough road trip with San Antonio being the only non playoff caliber team. Not in literal good shape as they are banged up. Still a chance at 4-2. That’s good after being 2-4 coming off an embarrassing loss in Houston.
I’m also encouraged with how well they have performed at home. If they build a real home court advantage coupled with .500 road play, then they should probably coast to a 50+ win season.
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Sacramento is 4-1 at home thus far. Last season, they played better on the road, especially on defense. We are all hoping for a resurgence at home and a close to 50-50 road record. One more game, then ten of the next eleven are at Golden 1. That takes us all the way up to Christmas.
With such a long stretch at home, it is easier to get rested and easier to schedule regular practice, too.
With such a long stretch at home, it is easier to get rested and easier to schedule regular practice, too.
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