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He was literally better post all star break

21 games

26.4 MPG

16 PPG
3.4 RPG
2.7 RPG
42.8% from 3
64.1% TS
21.9% USG

Pre all star:

50 games
30.4 MPG

14.9 PPG
3.4 RPG
2.9 APG
39.2% from 3
60.4% TS
19.4% USG
I never said “post all-star break”. That’s not the half way point. I said after his hot start he fell off somewhere around December/January. How about compiling those stats?

Most of all, I said he was inconsistent. I didn’t say he wasn’t good in any games during that stretch.

I’ll bet some of the games you’re including in that 50 game cluster would significantly bring down his 2nd half numbers. We all know he was red hot for the first month, month and a half. It was after that where he tanked and for some reason you’ve decided to selectively compile 50 games versus 21.

How about doing a split 41 games into the season vs the last 41? The games he played. Let’s try that. If it’s similar to what you already posted, I’ll retract.
 
He was literally better post all star break

21 games

26.4 MPG

16 PPG
3.4 RPG
2.7 RPG
42.8% from 3
64.1% TS
21.9% USG

Pre all star:

50 games
30.4 MPG

14.9 PPG
3.4 RPG
2.9 APG
39.2% from 3
60.4% TS
19.4% USG
You gotta love eye test vs. actual stats. lol
Wow, he essentially put up the same stats on better efficiency with 4 less minutes per game .
I never said “post all-star break”. That’s not the half way point. I said after his hot start he fell off somewhere around December/January. How about compiling those stats?

How about doing a split 41 games into the season vs the last 41? The games he played. Let’s try that. If it’s similar to what you already posted, I’ll retract.
Ok. Since I asked for a split of the first 41 vs the last 41, I decided put my money where my mouth was and took the time to produce them.

Huerter played 38 of the first 41 games and 37 of the final 41. So that's a pretty even split.

Here are the numbers:
  • First half: 15.8 ppg, 3.3 rpg, 2.9 apg, 42% from 3pt
  • Second half: 14.5 ppg, 3.4 rpg, 3.0 apg, 38% from 3pt
While not drastically worse, it was, in fact, worse in terms of scoring and 3pt shooting.

More importantly, while the 3pt numbers overall the 2nd half were still good, it was the inconsistency that I had remembered and called out. And the overall averages don't tell the story.

Here's what I'm talking about.

During the first half of the season, he only shot under 33.3% from 3 point range in 8 out of the 38 games he played.
During the second half of the season, he shot under 33.3 from 3 point range in a whopping 16 of the 37 games he played.

His worse stretch of the season occurred from January 15th through February 10th, just before the all-star break. Which isn't too far out of line with what I remembered and what I mentioned previously.

During that stretch he shot under 33.3% in 9 out of 14 games. And in 2 other games he shot exactly 33.3% from three. So that's poor shooting in 11 out of 14 games.

Here's the most important piece of context.

During the 37 second half games, he had 5 games in which he was hot and hit 5 or more 3's on super high efficiency (4 of those 5 games were included in @The_Jamal 's small 21 game sample size), which balanced out his 2nd half numbers at 38%.

So while, overall, he did put up good shooting numbers the 2nd half -- which is undeniable -- it is the bolded portion above along with the other 32 games during the 2nd half (when he wasn't hot) that demonstrate the inconsistency I've been talking about.

If you remove the 5 games in which he went 5-9, 6-9, 6-10, 8-11, and 6-12, here's what his scoring and 3pt shooting looks like for the remaining 32 games (much, much higher sample size):
  • 12.7 ppg, 61-190 from 3 (32.1%)
For comparisons sake and to be fair, if you remove the 5 statistically best shooting games from his 1st half (with the highest volume of makes) in which he went 7-8, 5-7, 6-9, 5-8, and 6-10 here's what his scoring and 3pt shooting looks like for the remaining 33 games:
  • 14.7 ppg, 84-227 from 3 (37%)
That's a CLEAR and NOTABLE difference. Not only was he FAR more consistent from October through early January, he wasn't near as good during the 2nd half of the season as Jamal suggests. He was just really good for 4 of those 21 games.

To further demonstrate and prove that, Huerter's numbers for the other 17 of the 21 total post all-star break games are as follows:
  • 10.7 ppg, 36-103 from 3 (35%)
So, factually, he was not better post-all-star break when volume of games is considered. And THAT is precisely what some of us remembered before diving into the actual statistics. Jamal's numbers were heavily influenced by FOUR games. Fact.

Now, someone may wonder why am I so hyperfocused on his 3pt shooting. Well, that's because 41% of Huerter's total FG attempts are from 3pt range (356 of 866). So it's statistically significant. He typically goes how his 3pt shooting goes.

In closing, I stand by what I stated all along. I've backed up the statements I made. I will acknowledge that the overall drop in production wasn't as steep as I felt it would be, but the number of games in which he struggled shooting from deep during the 2nd half backs up what I and others remembered (compared to the first half of the season).

So, @macadocious @funkykingston @White_Chocolate .... there are your REAL stats.
 
Wasn’t there a podcast or interview this summer where Huerter acknowledged that he wasn’t ready for the team’s pace for the season and he ran out of gas in the playoffs? Think he said he was going to work on conditioning for next year, too. Don’t know where I remember seeing that.
 

funkykingston

Super Moderator
Staff member
Ok. Since I asked for a split of the first 41 vs the last 41, I decided put my money where my mouth was and took the time to produce them.

Huerter played 38 of the first 41 games and 37 of the final 41. So that's a pretty even split.

Here are the numbers:
  • First half: 15.8 ppg, 3.3 rpg, 2.9 apg, 42% from 3pt
  • Second half: 14.5 ppg, 3.4 rpg, 3.0 apg, 38% from 3pt
While not drastically worse, it was, in fact, worse in terms of scoring and 3pt shooting.

More importantly, while the 3pt numbers overall the 2nd half were still good, it was the inconsistency that I had remembered and called out. And the overall averages don't tell the story.

Here's what I'm talking about.

During the first half of the season, he only shot under 33.3% from 3 point range in 8 out of the 38 games he played.
During the second half of the season, he shot under 33.3 from 3 point range in a whopping 16 of the 37 games he played.

His worse stretch of the season occurred from January 15th through February 10th, just before the all-star break. Which isn't too far out of line with what I remembered and what I mentioned previously.

During that stretch he shot under 33.3% in 9 out of 14 games. And in 2 other games he shot exactly 33.3% from three. So that's poor shooting in 11 out of 14 games.

Here's the most important piece of context.

During the 37 second half games, he had 5 games in which he was hot and hit 5 or more 3's on super high efficiency (4 of those 5 games were included in @The_Jamal 's small 21 game sample size), which balanced out his 2nd half numbers at 38%.

So while, overall, he did put up good shooting numbers the 2nd half -- which is undeniable -- it is the bolded portion above along with the other 32 games during the 2nd half (when he wasn't hot) that demonstrate the inconsistency I've been talking about.

If you remove the 5 games in which he went 5-9, 6-9, 6-10, 8-11, and 6-12, here's what his scoring and 3pt shooting looks like for the remaining 32 games (much, much higher sample size):
  • 12.7 ppg, 61-190 from 3 (32.1%)
For comparisons sake and to be fair, if you remove the 5 statistically best shooting games from his 1st half (with the highest volume of makes) in which he went 7-8, 5-7, 6-9, 5-8, and 6-10 here's what his scoring and 3pt shooting looks like for the remaining 33 games:
  • 14.7 ppg, 84-227 from 3 (37%)
That's a CLEAR and NOTABLE difference. Not only was he FAR more consistent from October through early January, he wasn't near as good during the 2nd half of the season as Jamal suggests. He was just really good for 4 of those 21 games.

To further demonstrate and prove that, Huerter's numbers for the other 17 of the 21 total post all-star break games are as follows:
  • 10.7 ppg, 36-103 from 3 (35%)
So, factually, he was not better post-all-star break when volume of games is considered. And THAT is precisely what some of us remembered before diving into the actual statistics. Jamal's numbers were heavily influenced by FOUR games. Fact.

Now, someone may wonder why am I so hyperfocused on his 3pt shooting. Well, that's because 41% of Huerter's total FG attempts are from 3pt range (356 of 866). So it's statistically significant. He typically goes how his 3pt shooting goes.

In closing, I stand by what I stated all along. I've backed up the statements I made. I will acknowledge that the overall drop in production wasn't as steep as I felt it would be, but the number of games in which he struggled shooting from deep during the 2nd half backs up what I and others remembered (compared to the first half of the season).

So, @macadocious @funkykingston @White_Chocolate .... there are your REAL stats.
I wasn't even responding to your post, but since you're quoting me - what you're really saying is that Huerter had a really rough stretch in the beginning of the calendar year, then played really, really well to finish the season before having a poor playoff series. That doesn't really support your point that he faded in the 2nd half of the season. What it says, and what we all saw, is that he had a lot of ups and downs last season.

He didn't carry poor play into the playoffs. If anything, he came out of the slump he was in just before the all-star break to play his best basketball as a King before struggling in the postseason.
 
Ok. Since I asked for a split of the first 41 vs the last 41, I decided put my money where my mouth was and took the time to produce them.

Huerter played 38 of the first 41 games and 37 of the final 41. So that's a pretty even split.

Here are the numbers:
  • First half: 15.8 ppg, 3.3 rpg, 2.9 apg, 42% from 3pt
  • Second half: 14.5 ppg, 3.4 rpg, 3.0 apg, 38% from 3pt
While not drastically worse, it was, in fact, worse in terms of scoring and 3pt shooting.

More importantly, while the 3pt numbers overall the 2nd half were still good, it was the inconsistency that I had remembered and called out. And the overall averages don't tell the story.

Here's what I'm talking about.

During the first half of the season, he only shot under 33.3% from 3 point range in 8 out of the 38 games he played.
During the second half of the season, he shot under 33.3 from 3 point range in a whopping 16 of the 37 games he played.

His worse stretch of the season occurred from January 15th through February 10th, just before the all-star break. Which isn't too far out of line with what I remembered and what I mentioned previously.

During that stretch he shot under 33.3% in 9 out of 14 games. And in 2 other games he shot exactly 33.3% from three. So that's poor shooting in 11 out of 14 games.

Here's the most important piece of context.

During the 37 second half games, he had 5 games in which he was hot and hit 5 or more 3's on super high efficiency (4 of those 5 games were included in @The_Jamal 's small 21 game sample size), which balanced out his 2nd half numbers at 38%.

So while, overall, he did put up good shooting numbers the 2nd half -- which is undeniable -- it is the bolded portion above along with the other 32 games during the 2nd half (when he wasn't hot) that demonstrate the inconsistency I've been talking about.

If you remove the 5 games in which he went 5-9, 6-9, 6-10, 8-11, and 6-12, here's what his scoring and 3pt shooting looks like for the remaining 32 games (much, much higher sample size):
  • 12.7 ppg, 61-190 from 3 (32.1%)
For comparisons sake and to be fair, if you remove the 5 statistically best shooting games from his 1st half (with the highest volume of makes) in which he went 7-8, 5-7, 6-9, 5-8, and 6-10 here's what his scoring and 3pt shooting looks like for the remaining 33 games:
  • 14.7 ppg, 84-227 from 3 (37%)
That's a CLEAR and NOTABLE difference. Not only was he FAR more consistent from October through early January, he wasn't near as good during the 2nd half of the season as Jamal suggests. He was just really good for 4 of those 21 games.

To further demonstrate and prove that, Huerter's numbers for the other 17 of the 21 total post all-star break games are as follows:
  • 10.7 ppg, 36-103 from 3 (35%)
So, factually, he was not better post-all-star break when volume of games is considered. And THAT is precisely what some of us remembered before diving into the actual statistics. Jamal's numbers were heavily influenced by FOUR games. Fact.

Now, someone may wonder why am I so hyperfocused on his 3pt shooting. Well, that's because 41% of Huerter's total FG attempts are from 3pt range (356 of 866). So it's statistically significant. He typically goes how his 3pt shooting goes.

In closing, I stand by what I stated all along. I've backed up the statements I made. I will acknowledge that the overall drop in production wasn't as steep as I felt it would be, but the number of games in which he struggled shooting from deep during the 2nd half backs up what I and others remembered (compared to the first half of the season).

So, @macadocious @funkykingston @White_Chocolate .... there are your REAL stats.
While not exactly "half-way" through the year, the all-star break is more often than not regarded as the "half-way mark" of the NBA season. Hell, any professional league. Pre all-star is the first half of the season, post all-star is the 2nd half. Which is why I used those splits. Someone can let me know if I'm way off-base on that, but I'm pretty sure that's universal.

Yeah he was inconsistent at times. That's what role players are. And while he's an extremely high level role player, the expectation isn't on him to perform like a Fox/Domas every game. Comes with the territory where role players are going to go through swings throughout the year. I love Monk, but he was incredibly inconsistent too:

October: 48% TS, 34% from 3
November: 65% TS, 36.8% from 3
December: 53.7% TS. 28.4% from 3
January: 50% TS, 28.8% from 3
Feb: 69.4% TS, 47.8% from 3
March: 59.7% TS, 42.0% from 3
April: 54.5% TS, 30.8% from 3.

If we're going to cherry pick 2 bad Huerter months, then we certainly have to cherry pick the 3 months where Monk forgot how to shoot.

Also I love how you say I'm cherry picking stats, when you're out here removing 5 game samples from his numbers. Like what??? How does that even make sense. You can't just remove his 5 best games and say " SEE LOOK! HE WAS HORRIBLE, JUST DON'T LOOK AT THESE 5 GAMES WHERE HE WAS AWESOME". This is a prime example of manipulating a data set for it to say what you want it to say.
 
OKC has like 20 players so far they will cut/trade some I'm looking at Kenrich Williams (better than Duarte imo) who's a absolute pitbull/tough guy this team needs. He's a smarter/smaller Dillion Brooks minus the low IQ (which means he's nothing like Dillion Brooks).
 
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Going back to the Ellis/Duarte situation, I think Ellis does have a shot at that PT. His defense is really something. It would be great to get consistent two-way play from either one of those guys. If one can hit 36-38% from 3, we will be rolling.
 
Going back to the Ellis/Duarte situation, I think Ellis does have a shot at that PT. His defense is really something. It would be great to get consistent two-way play from either one of those guys. If one can hit 36-38% from 3, we will be rolling.
I like Ellis too - but I think Duerte is going to get a lot of minutes at SF. I don’t think Ellis is competing for minutes at that spot.
 
I like Ellis too - but I think Duerte is going to get a lot of minutes at SF. I don’t think Ellis is competing for minutes at that spot.
I feel like Duarte is going to struggle to get minutes unless he starts the season better than he was as a rookie. He was injured last year and his numbers were really bad. Hopefully it was all injury related and he shows up looking like a new player.

I don't think Ellis will be getting many minutes at any position and if it was at SF it would only be situational and matchup dependent. He just doesn't have a big enough frame to go up against average sized SFs.
 
I like Ellis too - but I think Duerte is going to get a lot of minutes at SF. I don’t think Ellis is competing for minutes at that spot.
Players like Ellis and Duarte are likely your prove it in camp guys. If one carves out a niche they play. If not, who knows. IIRC in the minutes Ellis did get last year he was basically playing SF.

Here's some highlights against the Pels, most of the time he's with Delly and Monk. So playing SF didn't appear to be an issue and from what fans have said about Duarte, I think Ellis is a much better option at SF if it's a question of defensive need.

 
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I feel like Duarte is going to struggle to get minutes unless he starts the season better than he was as a rookie. He was injured last year and his numbers were really bad. Hopefully it was all injury related and he shows up looking like a new player.

I don't think Ellis will be getting many minutes at any position and if it was at SF it would only be situational and matchup dependent. He just doesn't have a big enough frame to go up against average sized SFs.
Yeah, if it's against bigger wing teams neither is probably ideal, but probably still an upgrade over some of last years small G lineups.
 

hrdboild

Moloch in whom I dream Angels!
Staff member
Garuba was waived by OKC.
I had a feeling this was going to happen. Houston had other priorities and OKC had too many players. I think this guy is a steal on the waiver wire. He can defend 3 or 4 positions (wings, forwards, and small-ball centers), has impressive steal, block, and rebound rates, and shot 40% from three last season (granted that was on only 59 attempts but the potential to space the floor is already there). I don't know that we have any roster spots left right now but someone will snap him up.
 
Cameron Payne just got waived by the Spurs. The Kings have a clear need for another backup point guard. Could the Kings possibly lure Payne for a chance to be on a title contender. It's worth a shot for Monte to call him up.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/spurs-...-in-trade-with-suns-per-report-202739576.html
I like Payne a lot, but he's way too good to be a 3rd PG. He's honestly probably a better player than Davion, but Davion's defense is a better niche fit with what he need. He'll have no problem inking a true back-up PG job somewhere.
 

funkykingston

Super Moderator
Staff member
I like Payne a lot, but he's way too good to be a 3rd PG. He's honestly probably a better player than Davion, but Davion's defense is a better niche fit with what he need. He'll have no problem inking a true back-up PG job somewhere.
If I'm Payne or his agent I'd put in a call to Milwaukee. Signing a one year deal to be the clear #2 PG on a contending team is a good way to boost value for next offseason.
 
If I'm Payne or his agent I'd put in a call to Milwaukee. Signing a one year deal to be the clear #2 PG on a contending team is a good way to boost value for next offseason.
Great fit there too. They could use another creator on that team and don't really have a ton of reliable ball-handling/passing outside their star guys.
 
Romeo Langford was released. He is a decent defender without having to even give 100%. Might sign and take a look at him in Stockton? See if he can develop an actual 3pt shot? Without that he's pretty useless in the NBA which is leaning towards scoring and the ability to shoot 3pt shots. Langford definitely is not a good shooter, but maybe give him a year in Stockton to see if he can develop a shot?
 
Romeo Langford was released. He is a decent defender without having to even give 100%. Might sign and take a look at him in Stockton? See if he can develop an actual 3pt shot? Without that he's pretty useless in the NBA which is leaning towards scoring and the ability to shoot 3pt shots. Langford definitely is not a good shooter, but maybe give him a year in Stockton to see if he can develop a shot?
I have always liked Langford, but honestly, I think the problem is that we already have too many Romeo Langfords. To me, Langford is that dime a dozen type wing, who has some potential and obvious warts. He is the guy that if you squint hard enough, and put in the developmental work, might turn into a guy. But we already have plenty of wings with warts who might turn into something, but who otherwise are cut-worthy candidates. I mean this pretty much describes Duarte, Kessler, Nowell, Keon, and Jones.
 
I have always liked Langford, but honestly, I think the problem is that we already have too many Romeo Langfords. To me, Langford is that dime a dozen type wing, who has some potential and obvious warts. He is the guy that if you squint hard enough, and put in the developmental work, might turn into a guy. But we already have plenty of wings with warts who might turn into something, but who otherwise are cut-worthy candidates. I mean this pretty much describes Duarte, Kessler, Nowell, Keon, and Jones.
Spot on. I've liked Langford too, but we already have 5 Langfords where the physical archetype is very appealing and it's fun to dream what he could potentially be, but we already have a bunch of guys we've put a bunch of developmental time into. I'd rather see if we can cash in on any of those guys first before grabbing another guy in the same talent range.
 
Agree.. Couldn't hurt to stash him in Stockton, but I am not sure if he would take a role like that after starting in the NBA for a few seasons. He would probably rather play in Europe or something.
 
One guy I’ll be keeping an eye on this year as a future trade target is Deni Avdija. Washington just signed him to a super reasonable deal and he is only 22. Why would the Wiz want to trade him? I think this was an asset signing as opposed to a long term piece for them. They can’t pair Bilal and Deni at the forward positions. Tons of defense but not near enough offense.

Why does he fit with the Kings? Great defense, more size and really good rebounding. He grabbed over 6 boards a game in 25 min. He hasn’t shown he can shoot the three consistently but I haven’t given up on that just yet. He’s been around 30 percent from there but if he could bump that up to say 34-35 percent I think he would be a good offense for defense trade off.
 
One team to keep an eye on is the Grizzlies.

If they take considerable steps back and it continues to look more and more like a mess, Jaren Jackson Jr could be an excellent trade target for us. He’s about as ideal fit as you can find next to Sabonis (fits our timeline, elite defender & rim protector, excellent size/length/mobility, solid rebounder for a PF, good 3PT shooter). He’s a guy who could lift our defense quite substantially while still giving Fox/Sabonis room to operate offensively.
 
One team to keep an eye on is the Grizzlies.

If they take considerable steps back and it continues to look more and more like a mess, Jaren Jackson Jr could be an excellent trade target for us. He’s about as ideal fit as you can find next to Sabonis (fits our timeline, elite defender & rim protector, excellent size/length/mobility, solid rebounder for a PF, good 3PT shooter). He’s a guy who could lift our defense quite substantially while still giving Fox/Sabonis room to operate offensively.
Question for you, if the only way to get him was giving up Keegan, would you do it? I think I would...

He's nearly the same age as Keegan, just 1 year older. Last year he put up:
  • 18.6pts 6.8rebs 3blks 1stl on 50.6/35.5/78.8
  • Won DPOY
He's a young DPOY who would be a great complimentary piece to Fox and Sabonis. He's the absolute most perfect fit you could have next to Sabonis. He still room for growth as a scorer.

If we were to trade for him, it would cost a minimum of Keegan. You'd probably also be looking at Future 1sts + Colby + Barnes/Huerter. Between Barnes and Huerter, they'd just pick whichever player nets them a 1st round pick.
 
The Chicago Bulls should be looking to sell off their assets. They've got some good prime candidates for the Kings to consider:

  • Zach LaVine: he put up 51pts on 19-33 shooting, but they lost. No one else could score on that team. He doesn't solve our defensive issues, but he'd give the Kings a true 3rd star and we wouldn't have to be reliant on 4th quarter heroics from Fox. I think he's someone who helps solve a lot of our playoff issues we saw against the Warriors where they shut down Sabonis, which led to no one else on the team outside of Fox and Monk being able to create their own shots.
  • Alex Caruso: this is the guy who helps out solve our defensive issues in the back court. Elite defensive player who's a good 3pt shooter. I think he's the one we should gun for if they do go on a fire sale. He brings a lot on defense to a very bad defensive team
  • Jevon Carter: he's the 28-year-old version of Davion with a more consistent jump shot
 
Question for you, if the only way to get him was giving up Keegan, would you do it? I think I would...

He's nearly the same age as Keegan, just 1 year older. Last year he put up:
  • 18.6pts 6.8rebs 3blks 1stl on 50.6/35.5/78.8
  • Won DPOY
He's a young DPOY who would be a great complimentary piece to Fox and Sabonis. He's the absolute most perfect fit you could have next to Sabonis. He still room for growth as a scorer.

If we were to trade for him, it would cost a minimum of Keegan. You'd probably also be looking at Future 1sts + Colby + Barnes/Huerter. Between Barnes and Huerter, they'd just pick whichever player nets them a 1st round pick.
Yeah that’s tough.

Regarding my post, I didn’t really think a trade would happen this season. I was thinking maybe next season or after. Memphis won’t want to pull the plug that quickly. And if we’re trading for him next season (or next season’s trade deadline), we’re talking about a guy who has 1.5-2 years left on his contract before he becomes a UFA and could walk for nothing.

You’ll still need to give up a fair amount to get him but I don’t think he’ll be worth Murray at that point (unless Murray’s progression stagnates) considering you’d still have 6-7 years of control over him since he’ll be a RFA.

And by that time, our 2024 pick would have deferred to ATL allowing us maximum flexibility when trading future draft picks. I’d rather try and throw a pick heavy package at MEM and assuming they’d want that over a 24.5 year old Murray.
 
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