[KINGS] Comments that don't warrant their own thread (Redux)

Jeremy Woo of ESPN said on the Lowe Post that the Sacramento Kings would've reunited Keegan and Kris Murray (who are identical twins but have opposite dominant hands) with their #24 draft pick.
The Portland Trailblazers ended up drafting Kris with the #23 pick last night, and Sacramento traded the #24 pick and Richuan Holmes to the Dallas Mavericks afterward.

He didn't cite any source so it could all be him guessing. * shrug *

If you wanna listen to his podcast:
https://open.spotify.com/episode/6u76eoKsHsjEBomtfo6NWP?si=K4W-l-gOQOq8GjzYNp2eIg&t=4029&nd=1
my guess is if they really wanted him they could have leapfrogged team(s) when he got into range. I dint think they had any intention drafting a guy, this seems like a piece to a bigger plan,
 
my guess is if they really wanted him they could have leapfrogged team(s) when he got into range. I dint think they had any intention drafting a guy, this seems like a piece to a bigger plan,
Yeah, I'm not buying it. When the twins father came out and flat out said he wanted them to be on their own path it sent up a signal. I think that signal was the Kings wouldn't be drafting in the first round.
 

hrdboild

Moloch in whom I dream Angels!
Staff member
Grr. Would be nice if BBall-index would, oh, I don't know, actually define "on-ball" and "off-ball" gravity somewhere on their webpage. They define "3PT gravity" but that doesn't have an on/off ball component. Furthermore, they imply that negative numbers, not positive numbers, are good, but give no idea what the values are inferred to mean.

If I have to give a guess based on that, this data means that the Kings ball handlers attract among the highest amount of defensive attention in the league, while their off-ball players attract among the least. This makes some sense - the ball is in Fox's hands as a drive threat or in Domas' hands in the paint quite a bit so on-ball defensive attention is what we would expect, and I guess that would detract from off-ball attention. But I would expect the Warriors to have high off-ball attention (not the lowest in the league), and that interpretation would suggest that the Spurs are among the most closely-guarded teams in the league when you combine on- and off- ball, but that the Sixers are the least-guarded team in the league. That doesn't seem to track.

So...I'm not sure I can really make heads or tails of this, but hey, the Kings are up in the northwest corner!
I think you're right that gravity is how closely defenders stick to offensive players but I have it reversed based on what makes the most sense and how the Kings play. High off-ball gravity means our floor spacers are effectively holding defenders out on the perimeter. Low on-ball gravity should mean that our ballhandlers are either good at losing defenders one-on-one or defenders tend to play off them more. Both would probably be true for Sabonis (defenders dare him to shoot and stick closer to other players so he can't beat them with his passing ability) and for Fox (he's too fast and shifty to defend closely and other teams probably want him shooting long jumpers anyway).

Which quadrant is good or bad is probably subjective based on how you want to run your offense. Pretty much everything was clicking for us offensively so being up there in our own little island is probably a good thing. And it also highlights how unstoppable we would be if Domas and Fox improve as shooters.
 

Capt. Factorial

trifolium contra tempestatem subrigere certum est
Staff member
I think you're right that gravity is how closely defenders stick to offensive players but I have it reversed based on what makes the most sense and how the Kings play. High off-ball gravity means our floor spacers are effectively holding defenders out on the perimeter. Low on-ball gravity should mean that our ballhandlers are either good at losing defenders one-on-one or defenders tend to play off them more.
This would make sense to me, but it is the absolute opposite of what the bball-index.com glossary says about their own stat:

Negative values are good, and the higher the value, the more we’d expect a defense to respect that player’s scoring from that area.
Maybe they just suck at explaining their own stat, but "negative values are good" suggests that negative values mean a player is good at attracting defensive attention. Does "the higher the value" mean "the more positive the value", or does it mean "the larger absolute value"? I kind of have to take it as the latter, given "Negative values are good" but again, maybe they just suck at explaining their own stat.
 
I have sometimes wondered if the Kings' relatively poor defense at home is the result of playing in Golden 1 Center, which, by all accounts, is unusually loud. If the players cannot hear each other on the court, it could interfere with their defensive communication. I live on the East Coast, so have no first-hand experience of the games.
 

Capt. Factorial

trifolium contra tempestatem subrigere certum est
Staff member
According to Spotrac, as of yesterday, they were still showing as cap holds. So I am guessing it is to be free of their cap holds, or some other related CBA issues.
Yep, we apparently have been operating over the cap for a few years now, and only this year reverted to operating under the cap to use space for the Sabonis renegotiate-and-extend. For various reasons, teams don't renounce cap rights until it absolutely must be done, and since it previously didn't absolutely have to be done...
 

pdxKingsFan

So Ordinary That It's Truly Quite Extraordinary
Staff member
Yep, we apparently have been operating over the cap for a few years now, and only this year reverted to operating under the cap to use space for the Sabonis renegotiate-and-extend. For various reasons, teams don't renounce cap rights until it absolutely must be done, and since it previously didn't absolutely have to be done...
I suppose on the surface this looks like a point in favor for the Vivek is cheap crowd, on the other hand the only value here would have been it allowed us to offer up the full MLE vs. the room exception? Which we used most of it for Monk?
 
Yep, we apparently have been operating over the cap for a few years now, and only this year reverted to operating under the cap to use space for the Sabonis renegotiate-and-extend. For various reasons, teams don't renounce cap rights until it absolutely must be done, and since it previously didn't absolutely have to be done...
Wasn't it Keith van Horne that was signed to a contract after being out of the league several years just so a team could compete a trade?
 

Capt. Factorial

trifolium contra tempestatem subrigere certum est
Staff member
Wasn't it Keith van Horne that was signed to a contract after being out of the league several years just so a team could compete a trade?
Yep, the league changed the sign-and-trade rules after that one! Now you have to actually finish the previous season with the team in order to be eligible to be S&Ted.
 
The one to bet on is the under on Golden State.
I almost see them over correcting during the year and looking to win more regular season games but I don't know if they scrape 50. They've been kind of coasting during the year and expecting to turn it on during the playoffs but they kind of got a rude awakening about that last season. Then they'll be nice and burned out for the playoffs! lol.
 
I don’t really bet but maybe I need to go lay down some money on the over for the Kings. I think Sac is closer to 50 than 40. It’s nuts.
If the Kings make a jump up they'll be doing it early in the year. When you "run it back" you're basically giving yourself a pretty decent hand up early in the year to pounce on teams still figuring things out. The Kings might have a decent chance at the in season tourney too. They have a somewhat lightweight grouping and it's so early on that the chemistry of keeping most of the core rotation intact could pay off. In a best case the Kings come out and build some checks in the W column pre deadline as a buffer in case some of these super teams are legit.
 

I guess Vegas didn't learn its lesson last year and are once more underestimating the Kings at its own risk.
I mean, 11 wins over where they had us last year is still a pretty decent jump.

But yeah, this is basically already baking in injury regression hitting us. So essentially, they're saying we won't see any jump in-house from the likes of Keegan/Davion etc and won't really benefit from a 2nd year of continuity. I don't think it's a truly egregious line, but we probably should be where they have the Grizz and Mavs at 45.5. So there's some value there imo. Granted, haven't checked schedules if we get super screwed by B-B, huge east coast trips, etc.

First glance, I like Under on Nugs, Warriors, Lakers, Suns. Obviously won't bet all of these, but just taking advantage of these higher win totals in a super uncertain is pretty strong

Nuggets just finished a deep playoff run, lost an extremely valuable piece to their rotation and weren't able to replace him. And the West is just flat out better; it's going to be harder for them to separate from the pack like they did last year.

Suns: Lots of star power, but no time to figure it out. Basically an entire new roster of 9th/10th man role players around Beal/Booker/KD. Can they all share the ball? Can KD and Beal stay healthy? Can they gel with Vogel off the rip? 52 is a big ask for all these questions to be answered and accounted for year 1. This would be the team i'd hate to play in the playoffs though. Easily could be like the 7 seed because of gelling/injury problems and just click at the end of the season and rampage through everyone.

Warriors; 1 year older and got significantly older with CP3. If he stays healthy, he'll be an upgrade on Poole, but that's a big big ask. And a bit underrated is how much shot creation Poole has been for them the last few years. That pretty much solely falls on Steph now.

Lakers: Improved depth for sure, but still reliant on AD and Bron healthy. Started to see a few signs of Bron falling a bit last season, does he actually start to regress this season? Can either guy play 60+ games? And again, just bet on the West being better and beating each other up.

Pacers over 35.5 wins: All their youth is a year older, added quality rotation piece in Bruce Brown, a top 10 pick in Jarace Walker, got Obi Toppin off the scrap heap. In the weaker Eastern conference and this is a bet that Hali can stay healthy for more than 56 games next year. If he plays 70? They crush this are in the mix for one of those lower east seeds.

Pretty funny though they have 6 West teams at either 45.5 or 43.5. Just throwing their hands up and saying "Hell, I have no idea which of these teams are actually good or not"