Potential Free agent/trade/sign tracker

Rain man · Jun 28, 2023

Exactly-add two guys to last year and bump guys 5-10 down two notches. Sasha and the free agent knock Kessler out of the rotation and Metu off the team. Barnes can either start or anchor the bench depending on the free agent. And some nice young pieces in the 11-15 roster spots like Kessler, Jones, Queta, and two vet mins (one a pg) to round it out.

The key is getting HB at a number that allows you $10M to add one more wing. I’d do 3/48 for HB, $10M for the wing, and $7M for Domas.

pdxKingsFan · Jun 28, 2023

captain bill said:

There's a certain signal with it absolutely. "You want us to pay you more than Sabonis?" "You gonna ask for that after the team leader took this?"

If nothing else it sets a tone for who wants to be here vs. who just wants to get paid. I don't think that players 3-8 can be all about themselves on this team or its not going to work. It's probably also why it was essential to get Holmes out since the response to the above would be "look at what Richaun gets to do nothing!"

twslam07 · Jun 28, 2023

The_Jamal said:

Yeah totally agree on the question of clearing Holmes.

The Kings could have theoretically had enough cap space to resign Barnes (assuming he’s in that range), keep Lyles cap hold in place, keep #24/Holmes on the books, sign Sasha to the room exception, and raise & extend Sabonis.

And if they’re not going to give Sabonis a raise and the plan is to resign Barnes and another FA, I don’t see how the minutes work…

PG - Fox / Mitchell
SG - Huerter / Monk
SF - Murray / Sasha
PF - Barnes
C - Sabonis / Lyles

Add a guy like Washington, Williams, etc. to those 9 guys and your minute distribution gets super tight. Probably results in someone being un happy with their minutes.

This is one of the reasons why I’ve been advocating for making a trade for a bigger upgrade (Anunoby) or signing 1 big FA (Grant). There’s only so many minutes to go around and would prefer to try and go after quality considering our quantity is already pretty good.

captain bill · Jun 28, 2023

Recent Athletic pod makes Jerami Grant back to Portland seem pretty likely. He previously turned down Denver to take same money in Detroit. Wants a big role in the offense. And Dame sees bringing him back as a priority

pdxKingsFan · Jun 28, 2023

I'm not high on Jerami Grant and have always felt it was near certainty he'd re-sign with Portland. IIRC his dad (that'd be Harvey) played for Portland and he was born here during that time and it was long rumored if he were not traded to Portland he'd go at the end of his contract which is part of why Detroit didn't get much in return.

iowamcnabb · Jun 28, 2023

I went back through the top 5 draft picks of the last 9 years and could only find 2 players who were not busts AND 4th offensive options or lower. Aaron Gordon on a championship team this year with Denver (he was higher up with Orlando) and Deandre Hunter with the Hawks and that one is debatable. There were other players like Okoro who are busts for their draft position but not total failures as players I didn’t count.

another words out of 45 players drafted in the top 5 only 2 of them were 4th offensive options. Let’s not make Keegan the third guy unless we are getting a star level player.

captain bill · Jun 28, 2023

Looking at the numbers I think Monte & Co's prior attempt to acquire Kuzma might be overblown. The deal would've gotten us off Buddy's albatross of a contract. This year alone Buddy made $21mm this year and is owed $19mm next year. Kuzma made $13mm this year with a player option for next. That trade would've saved us one year of tied up salary and ~$27mm. And this was pre-Domas trade where asset management was surely a huge priority

It's kinda easy to forget how bad an asset Buddy's contract was and how lucky we were that the Pacers gave us Domas *and* took Buddy's contract

twslam07 · Jun 28, 2023

captain bill said:

If Grant is on his way back to POR, then I’m wondering if the plan is to go after Cam Johnson, Khris Middleton, etc.

If not, I’m not sure what the point was to open up the cap space unless the Kings don’t plan on giving Sabonis a raise (which seems very unlikely at this point with all the smoke). If the Kings give Sabonis a raise, it likely prevents them from signing two guys like Washington, Williams, Barnes, Hart, Brown, etc. It essentially will mean our team stayed the same despite having $33 mil in cap space (which is just a whiff in my opinion). I understand the desire to lock Sabonis up but there has to be a certain level of risk involved when trying to build a contender and I’m not overly worried about Sabonis walking next year.

If it’s not Cam Johnson, Middleton, etc., wondering if there is a bigger trade that none of us are considering/seeing at this point. I may need to get creative and look at some wild/interesting trade possibilities...

pdxKingsFan · Jun 28, 2023

team needs were also much different.

Not saying Kuzma couldn't fit, but we really need a versatile defender first who is a scoring threat second.

iowamcnabb · Jun 28, 2023

twslam07 said:

If Grant is on his way back to POR, then I’m wondering if the plan is to go after Cam Johnson, Khris Middleton, etc.

If not, I’m not sure what the point was to open up the cap space unless the Kings don’t plan on giving Sabonis a raise (which seems very unlikely at this point with all the smoke). If the Kings give Sabonis a raise, it likely prevents them from signing two guys like Washington, Williams, Barnes, Hart, Brown, etc. It essentially will mean our team stayed the same despite having $33 mil in cap space (which is just a whiff in my opinion). I understand the desire to lock Sabonis up but there has to be a certain level of risk involved when trying to build a contender and I’m not overly worried about Sabonis walking next year.

If it’s not Cam Johnson, Middleton, etc., wondering if there is a bigger trade that none of us are considering/seeing at this point. I may need to get creative and look at some wild/interesting trade possibilities...

it might also be possible that Sasha/HB/Sabonis trio is going to cost more than we think. Still, I don’t understand why we absolutely need to extend Domas this year. Odd

midtowner · Jun 28, 2023

iowamcnabb said:

need a cap guy to confirm - but I think extending him now could result in an overall lower per year number. Something like $10 mill this year get Sabonis to agree to a $30 something million number next year - instead of Sabonis waiting to become a free agent and going for the max.

this is a bunch of conjecture.

twslam07 · Jun 28, 2023

midtowner said:

I mean it just depends on what Sabonis is willing to agree to. If he is given a $10 mil raise this year, we essentially can extend him for the 30% max (which means he’d be making ~$45 mil next year). Sabonis could obviously agree to an extension that is for less but again, it comes down to what Sabonis is willing to accept.

SacTownKid · Jun 28, 2023

Rain man said:

My guess based on what we have heard.

Plan A was to draft Kris Murray, use the MLE and/or BAE for a young wing and Sasha, use bird rights on Barnes and Lyles, and then mostly run it back, but with Kris, Sasha, and another cheaper wing (Brown, Bey, Keita, etc…).

Plan B is if Kris was off the board, then we pivot. I’m guessing we liked several draft wings equally well, but liked them slightly below Kris (and maybe Jaime Jacquez) given that those were win now prospects. We probably had guys like Jones and others ranked in the same tier, so there was hope we could trade out of 24, and still get someone we wanted at 38 (or if we were worried we could trade up from 38 for a more modest price). In this plan, instead of investing in HB/Kris/cheaper wing, we invest in one home run wing and a draft prospect. I doubt Kuz was the target. Feels like Middleton or Grant. Or the trade cap space for Beal, OG, Siakam options. Middleton said no and Grant is now a priority for Portland. Maybe Kuz was an option, but given the Houston rumor, I am guessing Kuz is going to be 4/100, and Monte said no.

Plan C. If Middleton, Grant, or a trade aren’t options, then don’t panic on a lower tier guy. Make up with Barnes, use cap space on a younger/cheaper wing (like in Plan A), extend Domas, bring Sasha in the room exception, and resign Lyles with bird rights.

To me, that is a smart, calculated, low risk swing. The potential difference from plan A and C is so small, that it was worth the risk to try plan B, even if you strike out. In both plan A and C you run it back with HB and Lyles, add Sasha, add a young/cheaper wing in free agency, and have a draft pick join our rotation. The cost of taking the free agency big swing is trading 24, but if you valued Jones at 24, then you really lost nothing. There wasn’t really rotation room for adding a guy at 24 AND 38 on an already winning team with Keegan, Sasha, and HB/free agent, so getting one guy you wanted with those picks and taking a swing in free agency seems calculated. Plus, by getting off Holmes and swinging (and missing) in free agency, you have the fall back benefit of locking up Domas for a good deal when there is no competition.

So maybe it didn’t work out the way Monte wanted, but he seems careful and doesn’t leave his flank exposed. It seems like maybe he took a swing, knowing that if he missed he could still get most of what he wanted with little exposure. The key (and it seems like he realized this) is not panicking if his big swing didn’t work out, and getting himself into a bidding war on someone like Kuzma with a loser team with lots of cap space like Houston.

I don't think the Kris thing is what happened but maybe. When Kenyon came out and said the sons would be better apart or something to that effect it was interesting timing for sure. Either he new the Blazers were interested or the Kings weren't making that pick. Colby Jones was listed very late on some of the mocks I saw at 24. Then the Kings even traded up to get him. I think they new exactly what it took to get Jones.

SacTownKid · Jun 28, 2023

twslam07 said:

If Monte opened up cap space just extend Sabonis, yikes, that aggressive Monte ran to the hills, haha. If the situation Domas is now in, on the team he's now on, with the momentum they have going doesn't make a given that he's staying, nothing will. If it's money, the Kings have the advantage over any other team anyway come FA time.

iowamcnabb · Jun 28, 2023

SacTownKid said:

but again, Monte can be aggressive as he wants but someone still has to sign on the dotted like. He can’t just drop off a briefcase full of cash at Draymonds house and say, “well, see ya Monday!” The top 4 free agents (beard, Irving, Grant, chest stomper) all can sign with their current team for the same or more money. If it turns out we end up with Barnes and a maxed out Sabonis we will never know if that was the plan or it just worked out that way because option a b or c didn’t pan out.

captain bill · Jun 28, 2023

joemama said:

One reading of this is that the Kings needed to canvas the league and figure out what their options are. If it ends up being something like Bruce Brown, bring back Lyles, extend Sabonis, and *maybe* get Sasha, there's prob a lot of numbers to crunch there, esp with the new CBA just being released today. Could read this as either Kings looked for a replacement and struck out, or there was mutual interest in a return and the front office needed to do a bunch more legwork before working on a contract with HB

SacTownKid · Jun 28, 2023

iowamcnabb said:

Of course, but we're starting hear blurbs of his plan being on specifically opening up space to extend Domas. I don't buy it. Now, I can see him figuring Jones would be there in the 2nd round anyway so why not dump $$$ as a why not move. Not everybody was in love with Collins but jeebuz, if that's the kind of value pickups via trade you can get then join the game Monte! NOW.

Here's the thing, and in not looking at the exact financials this could be wrong, but unless Monte was planning on paying Barnes 20+ million per season originally, clearing Holmes wasn't a prerequisite to extending Domas and giving him a raise. If anything, creating more space actually works against him because if Barnes is brought back on a fair deal it's that much harder to be an over the cap team so he's playing with having a room MLE vs. a full MLE in free agency for basically no reason.

Now, if Barnes is back on 20+, they raise Domas, and they pay Lyles then the team will be over the cap I guess and that tells me Monte valued a full MLE more than cap space so that makes some sense but monetarily, that MLE is still less than the difference he could have had.

SacTownKid · Jun 28, 2023

captain bill said:

And lets not forget this is the part where teams will also talk sign and trade scenarios with players and agents. I have no doubt the Kings want Barnes back, and at the very least want some sort of compensation in return for him. Monte lined up a deal for Bogdan that he never even agreed to so that shows you what Monte thinks about players leaving for nothing. The more we dig, yeah, I can't see Monte choosing a Kuz over a Barnes unless he sees something we don't with Kuz.

SacTownKid · Jun 28, 2023

With all the rumors of Jonas Valanciunas being on the block I wouldn't mind Monte going big and bruiser with Domas' national teammate. They are both skilled enough and Jonas has a pretty good jumper.

miltonap · Jun 28, 2023

SacTownKid said:

They would be too slow guarding the perimeter I feel

SacTownKid · Jun 28, 2023

miltonap said:

Yeah, but JV is basically around to the mid 20's in minutes now but the thing is his productivity is still basically what most players put up in full time starter minutes. They played side by side in international ball a bit and they were pretty good together. Brown could stagger them enough to where they probably only play 10 mpg as a tandem, and if it works you can slow the game down and just beast teams. Looney would have nightmares.

The_Jamal · Jun 28, 2023

captain bill said:

Thank goodness. Grant would be a disaster

sactowndog · Jun 28, 2023

twslam07 said:

If Grant is on his way back to POR, then I’m wondering if the plan is to go after Cam Johnson, Khris Middleton, etc.

If not, I’m not sure what the point was to open up the cap space unless the Kings don’t plan on giving Sabonis a raise (which seems very unlikely at this point with all the smoke). If the Kings give Sabonis a raise, it likely prevents them from signing two guys like Washington, Williams, Barnes, Hart, Brown, etc. It essentially will mean our team stayed the same despite having $33 mil in cap space (which is just a whiff in my opinion). I understand the desire to lock Sabonis up but there has to be a certain level of risk involved when trying to build a contender and I’m not overly worried about Sabonis walking next year.

If it’s not Cam Johnson, Middleton, etc., wondering if there is a bigger trade that none of us are considering/seeing at this point. I may need to get creative and look at some wild/interesting trade possibilities...

Paul George could be an option if the Clippers want to shed salary. But really feeling they are just going to run back the first round exit team.

iowamcnabb · Jun 28, 2023

sactowndog said:

Are you really expecting
Keegan to average 12 points a game next season?

CarlosBob · Jun 28, 2023

My top10 FA ranking right now for us:

1 - PJ Washington 20M/4
2 - Josh Hart 20M/3
3 - Bruce Brown 17M/3
4 - Harrison Barnes 15M/2+1 T.O.
5 - Grant Williams 15M/3
6 - Kyle Kuzma 23M/3
7 - Kelly Oubre Jr. 15M/3
8 - Rui Hachimura 13M/3
9 - Dillon Brooks 13M/2+1 T.O.
10 - Keita Bates-Diop 7M/2+1 T.O.

Draymond, Grant, Cam Johnson and Middleton are too much expensive.

kingdivac · Jun 28, 2023

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/report-kings-expect-sign-lyles-210929634.html

Pay him with a raise.......

NiNetNiNe · Jun 28, 2023

CarlosBob said:

PJ Washington would be my number one too, but he’s a restricted free agent I believe.

Joshoua · Jun 28, 2023

Makaveli said:

Dallas has zero talent outside of Kyrie/Luka and told Woods he won’t be resigned in March that’s the real food for thought and I don’t want Kuzma unless he’s coming to be a sixth man

The_Jamal · Jun 28, 2023

kingdivac said:

Good step one for sure. Crazy how Lyles started as a throw-in for the Bagley trade and made himself an indispensable part of the core who really affected our wins and losses based on his play.

The_Jamal · Jun 28, 2023

https://twitter.com/statuses/1674161565954904064

Not sure what the Wolves are doing, but absolutely yes to TP.

Potential Free agent/trade/sign tracker

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