Looking ahead to the 2023 Draft

Ozymandias · May 3, 2023

24 - Lively II
38 - Podziemski
54 - Jordan Walsh

PG - Fox, Mitchell, Monk, Podziemski
SG - Huerter, Monk, Davis, Podziemski
SF - Murray, Bates-Diop*, Barnes/Huerter, Edwards, Walsh(Two-way)
PF - Barnes, Murray, Bates-Diop, Edwards, Lyles
C - Sabonis, Lyles, Lively II, Holmes

this looks good to me (with Keita Bates-Diop being the one free agent that isnt resigned)

iowamcnabb · May 3, 2023

This is just a guess but I think Podzy is going to rise. I won’t be surprised if we take him with #24

sono · May 3, 2023

Ozymandias said:

I don't follow NCAA, thank you for the correction. Rumors are as you said he's most likely be back in college. My hunch is he could be a very good role player.

The_Jamal · May 3, 2023

iowamcnabb said:

Yeah, Podziemski fits a ton of the criteria that Monte has drafted for. Seems like we really value guys who have at least one college season under their belt and show a real growth or spike year while still in school. All of Hali/Davion/Keegan were like that Queta and Woodard in the 2nd round. Keon Ellis UDFA. Really, Ramsey is like the only "super young" guy who was a raw prospect that we've used draft capital on. Everyone else has had a level of polish on them coming into the league as a rookie

iowamcnabb · May 3, 2023

This is just a portion of Vecenie’s top 100 board. He has Brandon P at 47

Ozymandias · May 4, 2023

iowamcnabb said:

Well... The real showstopper on that list is Bobi Klintman... Whats his explanation for having him so high?!

Ozymandias · May 4, 2023

The_Jamal said:

I know this keeps getting repeated, the experience of the players Monte's drafted.

But do you really think that small sample size means more of the same?

Is all Experience the same? Brandin Podziemski barely ever played freshman season, him having 2 seasons is the same experience as Terquavion Smith who's been taking 15 shots a game for 2 seasons straight? I think not.

There's no uniformity at all with the players age correlating to the players level of experience, everything is distorted and manipulated, thats why we see 20 year old true freshman and 27 year old super duper seniors. I think its a strange thing to get hung up on or to think thats what ultimately cuts the mustard.

The way I see it is we have a Backup PG (Mitchell), Backup C (Lyles), Backup SG (Monk), 3rdstring SG (Davis), possible 3rd string C in Queta, those positions are all accounted for, Kessler Edwards is here to vie for a backup F spot.

My question is are we going to proritize drafting older more experienced players so they can sit next to Richaun Holmes in the cheerleaders section?

Like its a matter of opportunity... Trayce Jackson Davis for example, what kind of opportunity do the Kings present him? The chance to take Trey Lyles backup C job? Is that really some monumental upgrade for us? IDK, to me, seems more like Robbing Peter to pay Paul. Is replacing a player who played an efficient 16mpg for us some high priority?

Ozymandias · May 4, 2023

Remember this game? Walker Kessler drops 31 vs our beloved kings ON 14 of 16 shooting Watching Looney destroy us in the playoffs reminded me of this game. If we're gonna downplay the necessity of size and length from the C position, this performance deserves to be brought up.

I ask; Does Trayce Jackson Davis come in and lock down the 7'1" 7'6" wingspan Walker Kessler, n stop us from getting embarrassed by a player fresh out of college? Walker Kessler went in the late 1st rd, right near where we pick this year.

If we take a C with the pick I want him to have a chance to be Walker Kessler good. TJD imo is just not that guy.

TJD is a great player vs college level competition no doubt, the NBA however is a whole different rodeo, there's monsters here. I'd hope for TJD's sake that he doesnt land on a team where there's literally 3 other 6'10 C's already, actually doesnt make a lick of sense to me given what we've witnessed...

Ya know and to me, Adem Bona is not even close to a first round pick because he's too small for the C position as well.. Some people here have brought up Bona as a FRP, but I ask, how does he do vs Walker Kessler, whos much bigger and very well polished on how to use his body to ward off and punish smaller defenders.

Ozymandias · May 4, 2023

Playing Small C's vs Giant ones is not a mark of Kings basketball..

To quote the late great Wilt Chamberlain;

"Everybody pulls for David, nobody roots for Goliath."

Is that whats going on here?

To me the mark of Kings basketball is we play fast, we attack, we run, shoot and make lots of 3's, we have a PG who presents nightmare matchups, we have a C who's an impeccable playmaker, we have a bench that can get white-hot offensively, we have lots of multi positional players who can flex all over, our guards are especially versatile, those to me are some of the marks of Kings basketball..

I can't think of a single good reason we should be stacking up C's with PF-like wingspans here.. Thats like cordially inviting teams to unleash their Walker Kessler's on us..

Warriors just beat us with this super obscenely bloated payroll, yet, it was their C who makes rookie $$$ that destroyed us.. To think this teams fatal flaw will be not having a proper 7-footer who can defend the paint and secure rebounders is a fate I cant bear to handle.

IDK that meltdown in the 3rd quarter of Game 7 is forever etched in my mind.. To downplay the pitfalls of that Q is a grievous mistake IMO.

We're gonna fight so hard all damn season and then get to the playoffs n get trounced on the boards.. Now it's happened once, whats gonna stop it from happening again? For me, it's of the utmost importance that gets addressed. Sabonis felt they were 50/50 balls, I didn't see it that way.

Ozymandias · May 4, 2023

It comes down to how you use your fouls too... Specifically Sabonis.. Player like Looney, he's not needed to do the things Sabonis does on offense, so he can push people in the back for rebounds, he can elbow you in the face on jump balls, because those are the plays, if he wins those, he's doing his job..

Sabonis on the otherhand we need him to do all this stuff, so he wont have fouls in the bank where he can push people around for rebounds.. And I mean you see the offensive fouls he picks up, he likes to slam into people on offense, if it doesnt get called or he knocks you back on your heels its a free bucket.

So the way I see it we're in store for more of the same in future playoffs unless the issue is addressed thru personnel. Which is a fate I'd hate to see, so I want it addressed now before it continues to fester.

Sabonis won the rebounding title thru high volume and because teams play small, if you think he led the league because he's the best rebounder in the league, you need to rewatch game 7.

8 boards in 37 minutes, while Looney had 21 including 10 offensive boards. According to Domas it was the Warriors winning the 50/50 balls, thats not what I remember though, I remember Looney standing body to body with Domas and beating him for boards over n over..

THis is all 21 rebounds from Looney, I dont see what Domas says about 50/50 balls that seemed like a throwaway comment just as a sort of excuse for the casual fans. I see Looney establishing superior position and holding it, over n over.. I find this footage to be quite telling, just keep your eyes on Looney the whole time, if he's not reading the potential rebounds n their richochet better than Domas I'll be a monkey's uncle.

The Warriors had a superior gameplan to us, and its because they located this flaw (which turned out to be a fatal flaw) and maximized how to leverage it. The footage is conclusive, for every play Sabonis saw the defense sagging and quickly attacked n got a bucket, there was 2 or 3 plays where he was hesitant and didnt have a clean read and we had a wonky offensive possession, standing around waiting for off the ball movement, that the warriors were also waiting for because they had Domas right where they wanted him...

iowamcnabb · May 4, 2023

Ozymandias said:

Upside swing outside the top 20 that he trusts the most. Has your favorites Hendricks at 6 and Bufkin at 11 by the way

iowamcnabb · May 4, 2023

Monte on Dave’s show

talking about draft process

“getting guys to eventually replace other guys that fit what we do”

“MVPs can be found later in the draft so we will look for those but getting guys that can contribute on a rookie scale contract is super valuable”

The first one could mean looking for an eventual replacement for Monk (if he gets Poole money after next year) and to me the second quote is basically saying, sure we will take Giannis if he is there but we will probably draft an nba ready player

Ozymandias · May 5, 2023

iowamcnabb said:

Sounds like he's happy with our core, which makes lots of sense given we were the 3rd seed in the west.... I also read this as G-League development projects and / or 3rd string guys who can vie to be backups

which is sorta where I'm at. Seems to be in line with how they've groomed Queta too.

the idea we're looking for the most NBA ready guys out there to plug in right away, that seems unnecessarily risky to me. If that type of move doesnt work out immediately it becomes a depreciating asset, like a capsized ship that everyone stands around watching sink while coping "it was a good idea!", conversely, going after development projects we get a chance at steady progress.

Ya know during the offseason fans get a bit overexcited about ripping peices out and plugging new ones in. But ya gotta remember NBA teams have fantastic resources to develop players with.

to think "Oh we're a playoff team now, we need to draft all 23 year olds who are ready to contribute" is a foolish oversight of the highest order.. For a team like the Kings we MUST be able to develop players, so you do have to actually prepare to rely on that.

Ya see in these offseason threads, people want quick fixes and if they dont percieve a problem as easily fixable they just conceede and look to improve elsewhere --- thats another fatal misstep, with the right vision we can obviate any issue and where there might not be an obvious fix on the market, perhaps we could find a project that fits that mold and get them ready to fill the hole down the line, maybe a season and a half from now (max), rather than it being cut and dry fix it or leave it broken.

Ozymandias · May 5, 2023

iowamcnabb said:

Mann... I just wanna say Kobe Bufkin was such a forgotten man as a freshman.. Given how little hype he had last year it is a bit shocking to see him at 11 this year..

Thats honestly an even bigger turnaround than seeing Buddy Heild go from projected top of the 2nd rder to top5 pick in the next draft, or Porzingis going from a promise from OKC in the 20's to top5 in the next draft.

Its good though. I remember when Bufkin committed to Michigan, to me he was obviously headed to the NBA. It's been a wild ride since then.

Kinda stinks I'd prefer if he was on the board for us at 24 hahaha.

206Fan · May 5, 2023

Whitehead is undergoing another foot procedure… expected to be ready for the start of the NBA season: https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/37470723/dariq-whitehead-second-foot-procedure-ready-nba-season

Im in the camp that believes Duke rushed him back way too early. He had surgery immediately the next day after injuring himself in practice. They put him in a walking boot for 1 month. 1.5 months later, he was playing in his first game already. If memory serves me right, he participated in first 5 on 5 practice in November… and 3-4 days later, he played his first college game.

For the entire season he noticeable looked slower athletically compared to his college film… his 2nd injury didn’t help either… and now he’s requiring another procedure?

I get that these kids want to play as soon as they can, but the entire process felt rushed. I’m not sure I take him at #24 anymore… that injury risk is kinda big

206Fan · May 5, 2023

Ozymandias said:

I’m on the James Nnaji hype train. I love the skill set he brings as a big bodied center who can rebound and provide a presence down low.

I also really like Lively II, but he’s not a strong rebounder. I believe in his rim protecting and long-term upside. He at least would be able to take the pressure off of Domas as a rim protector allowing more rebounding opportunities for everyone else… unless they decide to stand there and do nothing again….

I wonder where Nnaji ends up being drafted.

funkykingston · May 5, 2023

Ozymandias said:

I would take this draft for sure. I'm on the fence about re-signing Barnes. It will come down to price and number of years. I'm trying not to have a recency bias based on his poor showing in the playoffs but it's hard to ignore the career postseason numbers. That said, he's also a very steady vet that was key to this year's locker room and getting the team ready for the playoffs. But if he does leave as a pricey FA, it opens the door for Vezenkov.

I'd also like to see the team deal Holmes if possible. A team that runs a lot more P&R could get solid value from Richaun, but we'll see. I don't know that he's worth stretching given that I can't see him picking up his player option if he spends another season riding the bench. If he can be moved, think you sign one of Len or Queta. Or possibly Metu, but I'd prefer one of the first two.

Ozymandias · May 5, 2023

After a preseason right foot surgery did not properly heal, Duke freshman forward Dariq Whitehead -- a projected first-round pick in the June NBA draft -- will undergo a second foot procedure and is expected to be fully recovered for the start of the NBA's regular season, his representatives at Excel Sports Management told ESPN on Friday.

Ozymandias · May 5, 2023

Below is a list of attendees for the 2023 NBA G League Elite Camp*

Bediako, Charles (Alabama)
Black, Leaky (North Carolina)
Bridges, Jalen (Baylor)
Broome, John (Auburn)
Bryant, Joe (Norfolk State)
Burton, Tyler (Richmond)
Campbell, Tyger (UCLA)
Castleton, Colin (Florida)
Da Silva, Tristan (Colorado)
Davis, Antoine (Detroit)
Davis, Johnell (FAU)
Davis, Kendric (Memphis)
Doss, Shaun (Arkansas Pine-Bluff)
Evbuomwan, Tosan (Princeton)
Fudge, Alex (Florida)
Gortman, Jazian (Overtime Elite)
Hall, PJ (Clemson)
Hart, Hakim (Maryland)
Hauser, Joey (Michigan State)
Hodge, D’Moi (Missouri)
James, Josiah-Jordan (Tennessee)
Jones, Dillon (Weber State)
Kinsey, Taevion (Marshall)
Larsson, Pelle (Arizona)
Lawrence, Tyrin (Vanderbilt)
Martin, Jaylen (Overtime Elite)
Mayer, Matthew (Illinois)
McConnell, Caleb (Rutgers)
Miller, Emanuel (TCU)
Murrell, Matthew (Mississippi)
Newton, Tristen (Connecticut)
Nkamhoua, Olivier (Tennessee)
Nolley II, Landers (Cincinnati)
Nowell, Markquis (Kansas State)
Omier, Norchad (Miami)
Omoruyi, Clifford (Rutgers)
Peterson, Drew (USC)
Reeves, Antonio (Kentucky)
Rice, Sir’Jabari (Texas)
Rodgers, Spencer (Kennesaw State)
Sears, Mark (Alabama)
Sharavjamts, Mike (Dayton)
Stevens, Isaiah (Colorado State)
Tyson, Hunter (Clemson)
Watson, Anton (Gonzaga)

NBA players that have participated in past NBA G League Elite Camps include New Orleans Pelicans guard Jose Alvarado, Indiana Pacers forward Oshae Brissett, Memphis Grizzlies forward and 2022-23 Kia NBA G League Rookie of the Year Kenneth Lofton Jr., LA Clippers guard Terance Mann and Miami Heat guard Max Strus.

The_Jamal · May 5, 2023

206Fan said:

Whitehead is undergoing another foot procedure… expected to be ready for the start of the NBA season: https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/37470723/dariq-whitehead-second-foot-procedure-ready-nba-season

Im in the camp that believes Duke rushed him back way too early. He had surgery immediately the next day after injuring himself in practice. They put him in a walking boot for 1 month. 1.5 months later, he was playing in his first game already. If memory serves me right, he participated in first 5 on 5 practice in November… and 3-4 days later, he played his first college game.

For the entire season he noticeable looked slower athletically compared to his college film… his 2nd injury didn’t help either… and now he’s requiring another procedure?

I get that these kids want to play as soon as they can, but the entire process felt rushed. I’m not sure I take him at #24 anymore… that injury risk is kinda big

Yeah I don't love this at all for Whitehead. I'd absolutely want him getting a full off-season workout and training camp with the team. Him missing that injury is a pretty big deal imo.

The_Jamal · May 5, 2023

https://twitter.com/statuses/1654585404685979649

206Fan · May 5, 2023

The_Jamal said:

I'd prefer to use our 2nd round pick on him, but I wouldn't be upset at all if he ended up being the pick at #24. I'm a big fan of his. He can do everything on the court. I wrote about him pages back after his March Madness run this year. I think he could add a lot of toughness to this team.

This selection would be more of a luxury pick, but if he turns out to be the glue guy I think he can, then it would be worth it.

The_Jamal · May 6, 2023

206Fan said:

Could you plug him at the 3 with Keegan at the 4 longterm? Obviously he would probably need to hit a ceiling outcome to be an nba starter, but is that even something viable?

Ozymandias · May 6, 2023

gimmie Kobe Brown in the 2nd over Jacquez in the first.

I dont trust Jacquez 3pt shot.

206Fan · May 6, 2023

The_Jamal said:

Hitting Ozymandias' point, his viability as a starter on the team would come down to his 3pt shooting. As it stands, he's not a good enough shooter. I think anyone starting around Fox and Domas will need to be 38%+

But even if Jaike's 3pt shot comes around, I think his style of play be more beneficial off the bench.

ockingsfan · May 6, 2023

The_Jamal said:

I wouldn't draft Jaquez in the first round, I think there are going to be players with a lot more upside available at the 24th pick than Jaquez. With one of our second round picks, he would be a steal and an excellent role player.

Jaquez actually reminds me of Dillon Brooks coming out of Oregon. A player that plays with a lot of heart, hustle and always seems to be around the ball and being active. He is the energy type players every team needs coming off the bench. I think he may be available in the 2nd round and I would take him with our 2nd round pick .

Kingster · May 6, 2023

Ozymandias said:

I don't think McNair is dogmatic about this idea of drafting experienced older players. He now has a playoff team in tow. He's probably going to go with a higher ceiling developmental project, bank him for a year or so in the G League and hopefully have something for the championship run. (A long developmental wing hopefully). It's either that or trade the pick for a vet who fits into next year's bigger playoff push.

bajaden · May 6, 2023

Well my first choice for the 24th pick is Max Lewis. He has one of the highest ceilings in the draft, and he's a wing. That might now be as high priority as a rim protector, but first of all, the only player that's a rim protector that I would draft with the 24th pick is Lively. My gut tells me he's not going to drop to us. If he does, it's simple, take him and go home. But aside from him, I'm taking Lewis who is a freak athlete with great handles and who can score from anywhere on the floor. He's 6'7" with a 6'11" wingspan.

He's a very aggressive player, which sometimes got him in trouble. His head coach was Romar, who used to be the head coach of Washington. He's another who is a great recruiter, but in my humble opinion, a terrible coach. Pepperdine had a lot of talent on that team, and yet they ended up with the worse record in their conference. Lewis got blamed, unfairly in my opinion, for that record. I see star potential in him and I can't pass that up. Of course it's possible another team see's what I see and he doesn't make it to us.

sactowndog · May 6, 2023

bajaden said:

Well my first choice for the 24th pick is Max Lewis. He has one of the highest ceilings in the draft, and he's a wing. That might now be as high priority as a rim protector, but first of all, the only player that's a rim protector that I would draft with the 24th pick is Lively. My gut tells me he's not going to drop to us. If he does, it's simple, take him and go home. But aside from him, I'm taking Lewis who is a freak athlete with great handles and who can score from anywhere on the floor. He's 6'7" with a 6'11" wingspan.

He's a very aggressive player, which sometimes got him in trouble. His head coach was Romar, who used to be the head coach of Washington. He's another whose a great recruiter, but in my humble opinion, a terrible coach. Pepperdine had a lot of talent on that team, and yet they ended up with the worse record in their conference. Lewis got blamed, unfairly in my opinion, for that record. I see star potential in him and I can't pass that up. Of course it's possible another team see's what I see and he doesn't make it to us.

I like Lewis. I think some of the French kids could be interesting also.

https://nbadraftroom.com/french-prospects-on-the-nba-horizon-a-new-basketball-hotbed/

bajaden · May 6, 2023

Since I admit that neither Lively or Lewis might be gone by the time we pick, I thought I throw out the names of players I would be OK with at the 24th pick. I should point out that I'm not choosing for need, but if the pick happens to fill a need, then great. So in the order that I like them. And I should add that these are players that are most likely to be there when we pick.

1. Maxwell Lewis, SF, 6'7", 195 Lb's, 6'11" Wingspan
2. Dereck Lively, Center, 7'1", 230 Lb's, 7'8" Wingspan
3. Leonard Miller, PF/SF, 6'10", 7'2" Wingspan
4. Brandin Podziemski, SG, 6'5", 200 Lb's ( Lights out shooter from three. Playes with an edge, he's got some dog in him)
5. Dariq Whitehead, SF, 6'7", 220 Lb's, 6'9" Wingspan
6. Colby Jones, SF/SG/PG, 6'6", 207 Lb's
7. Julian Strawther, SG, 6'7", 205 Lb's, 6'9" Wingspan
8. Kobe Bufkin, SG, 6'4", 195 Lb's
9. James Nnaji, PF/C, 6'10", 225 Lb's (Freak athlete)
10. Trace Jackson-Davis, C/PF, 6'9", 245 Lb's

Why no Kris Murray? Well because I don't think there's a chance in hell he slides to us. Some players that I like for our first 2nd rd pick are, in the order I like them.

1.Sidy Cissoko, SF/PG, 6'8", 200 Lb's
2. Noah Clowney, C/PF, 6'10", 210 Lb's, (he'll probably go at the bottom of the 1st rd, but a lot of mocks have him in the 2nd)
3. Jordan Walsh, SF, 6'7", 205 Lb's, 7'3" Wingspan
4. Keyontae Johnson, SF/SG, 6'6", 229 Lb's, 6'11" Wingspan
5. Tucker Devries, SF, 6'7", 210 Lb's
6. Terquavion Smith, PG, 6'4", 165 Lb's, 6'6.5" Wingspan (doubt he slides into the 2nd rd, but you never know)
7. Jalen Wilson, SF, 6'8", 215 Lb's
8. Marcus Sasser, PG, 6'2", 195 Lb's (Good athlete who can pass, shoot, and defend. He'd be a 1st rounder if he wasn't a senior)
9. Andre Jackson, SF, 6'6", 210 Lb's (One of the better defenders in the draft. Can you turn him into a decent shooter)
10. Kobe Brown, SF, 6'7", 240 Lb's

Haven't really spent too much time thinking about our second 2nd rd pick, but off the top of my head:

1. Jalen Slawson, SF, 6'7", 210 Lb's
2. D' Moi Hodge, SG/PG, 6'4", 180 Lb's, 6'5.5" Wingspan
3. Liam Robbins, Center, 7'0", 235 Lb's
4. Kevin McCullar SF/SG, 6'6"
5. Jake Stevens, Center, 7'0", 275 Lb's, 7'9" Wingspan (He averaged 2.4 blocks and 40.8% from three while taking 5 a game)
6. Jalen Clark, SG, 6'5", 195 Lb's
7. Azuolas Tubelis, PF/C, 6'11", 245 Lb's
8. Mouhamed Gueye, Center, 6'11", 210 Lb's
9. Ben Sheppard, SG/SF, 6'6", 185 Lb's,
10. Matthew Mayer SF, 6'9",225 Lb's

Looking ahead to the 2023 Draft

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