All-NBA Fleecing
- Thread starter Tetsujin
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I certainly never realized how good he was while playing in Indy. I mean, I knew he was a good player. And I knew he was a good player at Gonzaga. But I never knew he was capable of consistently doing what he's doing this season.
My sincere apology to those I argued against when the idea of trading for Domas was discussed. I was clearly wrong about his potential in the right system with the right coach and right surrounding cast.
On many night's I feel like I've been transported back to 2001-2002, watching the KINGS offense run through a skilled big man. Except this big man is even more physically tough than those two were and is just as good a passer.
Domas is simply unreal.
My sincere apology to those I argued against when the idea of trading for Domas was discussed. I was clearly wrong about his potential in the right system with the right coach and right surrounding cast.
On many night's I feel like I've been transported back to 2001-2002, watching the KINGS offense run through a skilled big man. Except this big man is even more physically tough than those two were and is just as good a passer.
Domas is simply unreal.
I think it was the preseason game in India where I first noticed Sabonis. I never really paid attention to him and thought he was a soft stretch 4, in the same vain as a Dragan Bender type player.
My eyes were opened during that game. He completely destroyed us physically on the inside. He wasn't much of a defender back then but there wasn't a single player on our team that could stop him or snag a rebound in his vicinity. That's when I was like wow this is not the same player I thought he was at all.
My eyes were opened during that game. He completely destroyed us physically on the inside. He wasn't much of a defender back then but there wasn't a single player on our team that could stop him or snag a rebound in his vicinity. That's when I was like wow this is not the same player I thought he was at all.
I responded to a twitter comment comparing Sabonis to Jokic with a remark wishing they got the same whistle and apparently this upset Jokic nation. Maybe he isn't getting as many calls FOR him as he did last year when he was leading the league in fouls drawn per game for at least a substantial part of the year, but he's also averaging under 3 fouls AGAINST which would be a friggin dream for Sabonis.
I don't know the best way to massage the stats to prove what my eye test tells me which is Jokic gets some soft whistles and never gets called for the ticky tack stuff. But I don't know if this is the same logic that leads Lakers fans to think the officials are biased against LeBron or there's more to it.
I don't know the best way to massage the stats to prove what my eye test tells me which is Jokic gets some soft whistles and never gets called for the ticky tack stuff. But I don't know if this is the same logic that leads Lakers fans to think the officials are biased against LeBron or there's more to it.
I'm very much not the type to crow about prescient takes, and I generally cop to being wrong (see: Doncic, Luka) more than I'd boast about being right, but I do have to say that I'm feeling quite good about having been a huge proponent of the trade for Domantas Sabonis and a huge booster of Monte McNair's in the wake of that move.
Yes, Haliburton is going to be excellent. Yes, there's the whole "It was the rare trade that worked out for both teams" angle that has taken root within the media. But Sabonis is an All-NBA center who's arguably in the top-5 of the MVP conversation at this point, and as I've repeated ad nauseum around these parts, the Kings did not have to give up a single first round pick in order to acquire him. In fact, McNair managed to snag a second-rounder from the Pacers in the deal!
None of this is to say that the Pacers shouldn't also be thrilled about the outcome of the trade, but I do want to push back on the "both sides won" narrative a bit. Indiana was sitting on a talent like Domas and didn't or couldn't extract more in return from the Kings, who many characterized as "desperate" for making the trade despite the fact that Monte McNair had preserved all of the Kings' future flexibility, which allowed him to draft Keegan Murray and trade for Kevin Huerter. Now the Kings are second in the conference with many around the NBA openly wondering if they can win the west entirely.
Yes, Haliburton is going to be excellent. Yes, there's the whole "It was the rare trade that worked out for both teams" angle that has taken root within the media. But Sabonis is an All-NBA center who's arguably in the top-5 of the MVP conversation at this point, and as I've repeated ad nauseum around these parts, the Kings did not have to give up a single first round pick in order to acquire him. In fact, McNair managed to snag a second-rounder from the Pacers in the deal!
None of this is to say that the Pacers shouldn't also be thrilled about the outcome of the trade, but I do want to push back on the "both sides won" narrative a bit. Indiana was sitting on a talent like Domas and didn't or couldn't extract more in return from the Kings, who many characterized as "desperate" for making the trade despite the fact that Monte McNair had preserved all of the Kings' future flexibility, which allowed him to draft Keegan Murray and trade for Kevin Huerter. Now the Kings are second in the conference with many around the NBA openly wondering if they can win the west entirely.
Excellent points. Indy was sitting on a talent with the ability to put up a top 7 MVP season (as he is now) and did not find a way to access that upside. And honestly, lets think about how expensive elite talents have been since that trade:
Mitchell: Lauri Markanen and 3 FRP(I think?)
Gobert: 5 FRP, Kessler and a bunch of excellent role players
KD: 4 FRP and a potentially budding star in Mikal Bridges.
Sabonis: Hali AND get off the Buddy contract.
We got crushed by the national media because it was "fun" to clown on the Kings and Hali was the league's next golden boy they wanted to promote. His media tour after that showed as much. But Domas has quickly shown that he was not only worth Hali, but he's one of the most valuable offensive players in basketball while being an elite rebounder and an incredible teammate and leader.
His leadership doesn't get talked about enough too. Dude shows it on the court with how hard he works and sets the example every single minutes he's on the floor. And the fact he's fully embraced Fox as the top scorer and not only defers to him in crunch time but WANTS Fox to go be great in crunch time. Such a rare asset to have from a star player in today's NBA
Mitchell: Lauri Markanen and 3 FRP(I think?)
Gobert: 5 FRP, Kessler and a bunch of excellent role players
KD: 4 FRP and a potentially budding star in Mikal Bridges.
Sabonis: Hali AND get off the Buddy contract.
We got crushed by the national media because it was "fun" to clown on the Kings and Hali was the league's next golden boy they wanted to promote. His media tour after that showed as much. But Domas has quickly shown that he was not only worth Hali, but he's one of the most valuable offensive players in basketball while being an elite rebounder and an incredible teammate and leader.
His leadership doesn't get talked about enough too. Dude shows it on the court with how hard he works and sets the example every single minutes he's on the floor. And the fact he's fully embraced Fox as the top scorer and not only defers to him in crunch time but WANTS Fox to go be great in crunch time. Such a rare asset to have from a star player in today's NBA
To be fair, crushing and clowning a team who, at that time, hadn't seen the playoffs since 2006 was very much justified.
I am just glad that we were able to, as a result of that trade, right the wrongs, and steer that ship in the right direction. It ACTUALLY feels good to hear the media talking about us in a positive way again...I pretty much had forgotten what that actually feels like.
I am just glad that we were able to, as a result of that trade, right the wrongs, and steer that ship in the right direction. It ACTUALLY feels good to hear the media talking about us in a positive way again...I pretty much had forgotten what that actually feels like.
A secondary part of the pushback was that this was all about preserving Fox's ego or we made a choice to roll with Fox again and meanwhile it is Indy who had to ship off some of their other talent who wasn't coexisting with Haliburton while Domas is pairing brilliantly with just about everyone he is asked to share floor time with, and Fox is about to become a household name in the playoffs.
I do think it is win all around but I think we may have won just a little bit more now that we've had a full season to evaluate.
I do think it is win all around but I think we may have won just a little bit more now that we've had a full season to evaluate.
The Cavs certainly look like they'll be all right, even after sacrificing their future flexibility to acquire Mitchell, but there is serious cause for concern in Minny, and I think some noteworthy cause for concern in Phoenix. Gobert is just never going to be worth what the Wolves had to pay to get him, and while I like Anthony Edwards a lot, I've never believed in KAT, and I have no idea how that team fashions itself into a serious playoff contender without any relevant draft capital, other than by trading KAT to try and recoup some of those lost assets.
As for the Suns, they've gambled massively on the hope that their newly-acquired 34-year-old superstar-in-a-boot and their nearly-38-year-old Point God are durable enough to survive a playoff series, much less get through four of them to win a title. Durant is amazing and his game should continue to age gracefully into the twilight of his career... if he can manage to stay on the court. And as with Minnesota, I like Devin Booker quite a bit but I don't believe in Deandre Ayton, and I have no idea how that team stays in the upper echelon of the west beyond the next couple of seasons given that their cupboards are rather bare. Josh Okogie might turn into something for them, but are their long-term prospects really much to get excited about? How big is their championship window? Two years?
I just don't like the Gobert and Durant trades from a teambuilding standpoint. They were both bad trades, in my opinion. The latter represented a calculated risk, but I think the risk was too high and the odds are too low that Durant and Paul will stay healthy long enough to win the Suns a title, and I disagree with the prevailing wisdom that says, "It's Kevin Durant; you give up whatever you have to in order to get him." In my estimation, the Sabonis trade stands out massively against this backdrop given his impact on winning, his on-court and off-court leadership, his availability, and his long-term upside with the franchise. The Kings had to give up far less than these other teams just to get in the contention conversation. They're much better than Minny, they're about even with Cleveland, and while the Suns may outclass them when Durant is healthy, I just don't see the Suns as a long-term threat in the conference.
As for the Suns, they've gambled massively on the hope that their newly-acquired 34-year-old superstar-in-a-boot and their nearly-38-year-old Point God are durable enough to survive a playoff series, much less get through four of them to win a title. Durant is amazing and his game should continue to age gracefully into the twilight of his career... if he can manage to stay on the court. And as with Minnesota, I like Devin Booker quite a bit but I don't believe in Deandre Ayton, and I have no idea how that team stays in the upper echelon of the west beyond the next couple of seasons given that their cupboards are rather bare. Josh Okogie might turn into something for them, but are their long-term prospects really much to get excited about? How big is their championship window? Two years?
I just don't like the Gobert and Durant trades from a teambuilding standpoint. They were both bad trades, in my opinion. The latter represented a calculated risk, but I think the risk was too high and the odds are too low that Durant and Paul will stay healthy long enough to win the Suns a title, and I disagree with the prevailing wisdom that says, "It's Kevin Durant; you give up whatever you have to in order to get him." In my estimation, the Sabonis trade stands out massively against this backdrop given his impact on winning, his on-court and off-court leadership, his availability, and his long-term upside with the franchise. The Kings had to give up far less than these other teams just to get in the contention conversation. They're much better than Minny, they're about even with Cleveland, and while the Suns may outclass them when Durant is healthy, I just don't see the Suns as a long-term threat in the conference.