KINGS PICKING 4TH IN 2022 NBA DRAFT!

[dude12]

The major problem with Ivey is if he doesn’t approach star level on O, his defense is going to be a problem on THIS team with all the other defensive shortcomings we have.

Shaky 3 point shooting paired with Fox. Both can abuse teams in the paint. The team will see 5 guys in the paint.
Davion and DDV can both defend and form a solid backcourt with Fox. Drafting Ivey, we would have to turn DDV into a wing in a trade…..or I guess trade Davion who happens to be our best defensive guard and I guy you want to keep.

At some point Sac needs their 3 and D switchable wings to actually win.

With the Knicks being rumored to love Ivey, what wings do they actually have that could entice Sac? Their pick will most certainly bring a good wing, but I don’t think Randle and that contract makes us a better team although he certainly is capable of putting up numbers.

 

[midtowner]

Smart and Brown were considered reaches at the time.

I think you need to go back and look at those drafts and reconsider your definition of a reach. Drafting against mock draft consensus is not a reach.

 

[hrdboild]

I think you need to go back and look at those drafts and reconsider your definition of a reach. Drafting against mock draft consensus is not a reach.

Yeah, I don't think either of those guys were reaches. Jaylen Brown was my favorite prospect in that draft and Smart was taken in the range most expected. Also, Danny Ainge traded down from the #1 spot to draft Jayson Tatum, passing on a prospect (Markelle Fultz) who almost everyone thought would be an instant star. We were supposed to see a Fultz, Simmons, and Embiid led Sixers team in multiple Finals series but obviously it didn't work out that way. That Boston team is a testament to the value of finding the guys you believe in and taking them regardless of consensus or expectation.

 

[dude12]

The other thing with picking at 4, and it’s what I’ve believed from early on, we/any team should be able to draft a guy who can play both sides of the ball. I think the defensive side of these prospects are getting short changed. Ivey does not fit that unless Monte and especially Coach Brown feel like he can be an average/above average defender or at least a guy who can function in a team defense situation.

 

[midtowner]

The Ivey not being a good defender narrative is overblown. Dude has all the tools, played tough when he focused on it and is a competitor. He should be a plus on-ball defender in the NBA.

 

[EIM86]

I don’t know if anyone thinks Murray is going to be a star but at some point, we need to get guys who can help us win. Is Mikal Bridges a star? I’d say no but I sure as hell would love him in our team. And he’s just an example, not saying Murray is going to be that. But I think he gets us closer to winning. Does Ivey get us closer to winning? Only if he’s special. We will still be short wings, and Coach Brown is going to have to be some kind of awesome to milk out a solid defensive performance from these guys.

I think there is a real possibility that if Ivey really is special, why the hell wouldn’t he go earlier than 4? There’s a good chance we get Banchero or Holmgren

because everybody is enamored by the big tall guy. Sac fell for it with Bagley and every team in history also. There’s also tons of 3 and D wings in this draft especially in the 2nd round

 

[hrdboild]

The other thing with picking at 4, and it’s what I’ve believed from early on, we/any team should be able to draft a guy who can play both sides of the ball. I think the defensive side of these prospects are getting short changed. Ivey does not fit that unless Monte and especially Coach Brown feel like he can be an average/above average defender or at least a guy who can function in a team defense situation.

I think this is the biggest source of disagreement about this year's top prospects. The guys who are proven scorers are mostly poor defenders with "tools" on that end that you hope a good coach can make use of to at least get them into the average range. Most of the proven defenders have "tools" on the offensive end but poor shooting numbers so you also won't want to take them in the top 5 unless you believe that you can fix their shooting issues. So either we trade down into a range where those types of players make more sense or we need to find someone who can be coached into being a two-way player.

In that regard, some people think you can teach shooting easier than you can teach defense (it's just repetition right?) while other people think you will never be able to coach a guy into being an elite shooter but you can coach a poor defender to make the best of their athletic abilities within a team construct. Depending on where you fall on that line, there's a lot of variance on where players should be ranked this year.

Regardless, if we're looking for a two-way player there isn't really anyone who checks all the boxes on both ends. Holmgren, Smith, and Murray come the closest and at least one of them will likely be available at 4. Or we could take someone with more scoring upside and hope their defense can be improved (Banchero, Ivey, Mathurin) or we could take a swing on a standout defender and hope they can find a way to excel on offense next to Fox and Sabonis (Eason, Sochan, Williams).

 

[funkykingston]

Yeah, I don't think either of those guys were reaches. Jaylen Brown was my favorite prospect in that draft and Smart was taken in the range most expected. Also, Danny Ainge traded down from the #1 spot to draft Jayson Tatum, passing on a prospect (Markelle Fultz) who almost everyone thought would be an instant star. We were supposed to see a Fultz, Simmons, and Embiid led Sixers team in multiple Finals series but obviously it didn't work out that way. That Boston team is a testament to the value of finding the guys you believe in and taking them regardless of consensus or expectation.

I was high on Jaylen Brown that draft as well, though I'm biased as a Cal alum.

My recollection of that draft was that Simmons and Ingram were locked in at #1 and #2 respectively and then it depended on who you liked among Kris Dunn, Dragan Bender, Jamal Murray, Jaylen Brown, Buddy Hield and Marquese Chriss. Given that Ainge had put together a huge package to try and get Justice Winslow the year before, it wasn't surprising that he took Brown.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

The Ivey not being a good defender narrative is overblown. Dude has all the tools, played tough when he focused on it and is a competitor. He should be a plus on-ball defender in the NBA.

I'm not entirely sold but I feel like there's no way Monte and Brown draft him if they aren't convinced he can be.

 

[EIM86]

Who said anything about fit? I think Keegan is better and he plays a premium NBA position. And while you don't draft for fit, you also don't throw it out the window either. Keegan plugs in perfectly with the established core. Ivey creates a lot of the same problems as last year with Hali. A creative coach can make it work, but 85-90% of the time, one of Fox/Mitchell/Ivey is going to be on the block within a few years. Which is the problem when your 3 best players can't play together full-time or even part-time out of gimmicky type LU's.

its clear many here, including yourself are trying are plug Murray as BPA even though he clearly doesn’t have the highest upside or ceiling compared to Ivey. Also Murray has only played 2 years of D-1 ball. He has the experience of a sophomore but turning 22. In the end it’s all couch GMs opinions anyway.

 

[Woot!]

The other thing with picking at 4, and it’s what I’ve believed from early on, we/any team should be able to draft a guy who can play both sides of the ball. I think the defensive side of these prospects are getting short changed. Ivey does not fit that unless Monte and especially Coach Brown feel like he can be an average/above average defender or at least a guy who can function in a team defense situation.

Hugely important point. Obviously, guys like Giannis who are all-stars on both ends are very rare. But at #4 can we pls draft someone whose evident shortfalls, whatever his strengths, don't immediately trigger conversations about the kinds of players and/or schemes needed to mask/compensate for those shortfalls? Another point in Murray's favor, IMO.

 

[Woot!]

The Ivey not being a good defender narrative is overblown. Dude has all the tools, played tough when he focused on it and is a competitor. He should be a plus on-ball defender in the NBA.

Sounds exactly like what many/most of us still say about Fox.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

its clear many here, including yourself are trying are plug Murray as BPA even though he clearly doesn’t have the highest upside or ceiling compared to Ivey. In the end it’s all couch GMs opinions anyway.

I think he will be the best player right now at the position we are drafting. He's also an archetype we have been sorely lacking (and that isn't "PF" in the old sense of the term, but a 2-way stretch 4 - something that only Smith meets above him).

In terms of star potential it is definitely lower than probably Ivey, Mathurin, Sharpe (who also is biggest ?).

Everyone is so caught up on "fit" being a poor reason to draft that they ignore the "right now" part in favor of swinging for the fences because for some reason they've convinced themselves this franchise won't strike out?

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Sounds exactly like what many/most of us still say about Fox.

Fox has shown when given a reason he'll play D so all we can hope for is Brown gives him at least 82 nights of reasons next year. Being competitive out of the gate would be a huge boost as well.

 

[funkykingston]

I think this is the biggest source of disagreement about this year's top prospects. The guys who are proven scorers are mostly poor defenders with "tools" on that end that you hope a good coach can make use of to at least get them into the average range. Most of the proven defenders have "tools" on the offensive end but poor shooting numbers so you also won't want to take them in the top 5 unless you believe that you can fix their shooting issues. So either we trade down into a range where those types of players make more sense or we need to find someone who can be coached into being a two-way player.

In that regard, some people think you can teach shooting easier than you can teach defense (it's just repetition right?) while other people think you will never be able to coach a guy into being an elite shooter but you can coach a poor defender to make the best of their athletic abilities within a team construct. Depending on where you fall on that line, there's a lot of variance on where players should be ranked this year.

Regardless if we're looking for a two-way player, there isn't really anyone who checks all the boxes on both ends. Holmgren, Smith, and Murray come the closest and at least one of them will likely be available at 4. Or we could take someone with more scoring upside and hope their defense can be improved (Banchero, Ivey, Mathurin) or we could take a swing on a standout defender and hope they can find a way to excel on offense next to Fox and Sabonis (Eason, Sochan, Williams).

Of the top picks, Jabari Smith Jr is the only one that I don't have any questions about on offense or defense. The biggest question with him is what his possible ceiling may be.

I also have more than defensive concerns about Ivey. Not only is the Morant comparison way off, so is the Westbrook one. Russ had a much higher assist percentage while both being almost a year younger and having to share a backcourt with Darren Collison. I've made this point elsewhere, but there's a much stronger track record of big, athletic PGs becoming stars (Westbrook, Wall, Rose, Morant, etc) than small, athletic SGs. Ivey may end up being a Zach LaVine type player, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but I don't know that it's a great piece if you're building around Fox & Sabonis. Now, if you trade Fox and have Mitchell and Ivey as your guards? Maybe there's something there.

On the other hand, what about this:
Richaun Holmes and #4 to Charlotte for PJ Washington, #13 and #15?

You get a PF in Washington that fits well with Fox and Domas (and who can play small ball center if needed) and two shots in the back end of the lottery.

 

[KingsCitizen]

I think Chet will be there at 4, considering how teams have been shying away from skinny bigs in the lottery.
Magic will likely pick Jabari
OKC will likely take Banchero, because why would u need another Poku frame tyoe of player
Houston, IMO, would take the best PG here in Ivey. They have good young prospect in Garuba and Sengun. Ivey + Green would be a fantastic backcourt.

So brace yourselves for Monte taking another unicorn

 

[EIM86]

I think he will be the best player right now at the position we are drafting. He's also an archetype we have been sorely lacking (and that isn't "PF" in the old sense of the term, but a 2-way stretch 4 - something that only Smith meets above him).

In terms of star potential it is definitely lower than probably Ivey, Mathurin, Sharpe (who also is biggest ?).

Everyone is so caught up on "fit" being a poor reason to draft that they ignore the "right now" part in favor of swinging for the fences because for some reason they've convinced themselves this franchise won't strike out?

Im not saying Ivey is gonna be Jordan cause he most likely won’t. It just doesn’t make sense to draft for fit in a draft philosophically imo cause we can always trade for players with the player that has the oozing upside and ceiling that gets other GMs/owners excited. Murray will not push down Fox or Sabonis down a spot on this team and will more likely end up being a good role player. Ivey potentially could and that’s what this lineup desperately needs. Put less on their shoulders and they’ll thrive even more.

 

[kb02]

Fox has shown when given a reason he'll play D so all we can hope for is Brown gives him at least 82 nights of reasons next year. Being competitive out of the gate would be a huge boost as well.

Apparently winning isn’t enough reason. 6 years in the league, hasn’t shown a desire to play defense more than 5% of the time. Brown nor Phil Jackson nor John Wooden is going to change him. He is, who he is.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Im not saying Ivey is gonna be Jordan cause he most likely won’t. It just doesn’t make sense to draft for fit in a draft philosophically imo cause we can always trade for players with the player that has the oozing upside and ceiling that gets other GMs/owners excited. Murray will not push down Fox or Sabonis down a spot on this team and will end up being a good role player. Ivey potentially could and that’s what this lineup desperately needs. Put less on their shoulders and they’ll thrive even more.

We've been trying to overpay a restricted free agent of Murray's archetype for the past 5 years or so now. I don't think they are "so easy to come by" as folks suggest.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Apparently winning isn’t enough reason. 6 years in the league, hasn’t shown a desire to play defense more than 5% of the time. Brown nor Phil Jackson nor John Wooden is going to change him. He is, who he is.

Winning is the reason. This team doesn't win. It's rare for players to give effort on the defensive end when the whole team sucks. It's been 5 years, btw. He was a lot better under Joerger. Luke let him coast. Brown *fingers crossed* won't.

 

[EIM86]

We've been trying to overpay a restricted free agent of Murray's archetype for the past 5 years or so now. I don't think they are "so easy to come by" as folks suggest.

Without a top player nobody will even consider coming to Sac. I know this is Blasphemy but We can always trade Superstar Metu for a wing! *ducks*

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Without a top player nobody will even consider coming to Sac. I know this is Blasphemy but We can always trade Superstar Metu for a wing! *ducks*

We've signed a few to offer sheets (or close to it) only to have them matched. To be fair that hasn't always worked out for the team that matches.

I guess that's the danger of drafting one who tops out as a 4-star player that maybe you have to match a large contract to keep them even if they are your 3rd best guy. But again, this is a premium position around the league right now and one we haven't been able to fill.

 

[kb02]

Winning is the reason. This team doesn't win. It's rare for players to give effort on the defensive end when the whole team sucks. It's been 5 years, btw. He was a lot better under Joerger. Luke let him coast. Brown *fingers crossed* won't.

If you’re a team cornerstone, you set the tone. Fox chose pace regardless of wins or losses. Going into year 6. Dude ain’t going to change. Only way this team prioritizes defense is if it asks others to carry 99% of the burden.

 

[hrdboild]

Of the top picks, Jabari Smith Jr is the only one that I don't have any questions about on offense or defense. The biggest question with him is what his possible ceiling may be.

I also have more than defensive concerns about Ivey. Not only is the Morant comparison way off, so is the Westbrook one. Russ had a much higher assist percentage while both being almost a year younger and having to share a backcourt with Darren Collison. I've made this point elsewhere, but there's a much stronger track record of big, athletic PGs becoming stars (Westbrook, Wall, Rose, Morant, etc) than small, athletic SGs. Ivey may end up being a Zach LaVine type player, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but I don't know that it's a great piece if you're building around Fox & Sabonis. Now, if you trade Fox and have Mitchell and Ivey as your guards? Maybe there's something there.

On the other hand, what about this:
Richaun Holmes and #4 to Charlotte for PJ Washington, #13 and #15?

You get a PF in Washington that fits well with Fox and Domas (and who can play small ball center if needed) and two shots in the back end of the lottery.

I was thinking of a three-team trade including Indiana's Myles Turner and #6 pick. The Pacers would take Jaden Ivey at #4 and also add Richaun Holmes (who plays well with Haliburton) and PJ Washington to replace a guy they're probably losing in a year anyway. We would get Kelly Oubre and the #6 and #13 picks in exchange for Richaun Holmes and #4 and the Hornets would get Myles Turner to solve their front court issues in exchange for PJ, Kelly Oubre's expiring deal and their #13 pick and they'd still have the #15 pick to add another piece to their new Lamelo/Bridges/Turner core.

 

[EIM86]

We've signed a few to offer sheets (or close to it) only to have them matched. To be fair that hasn't always worked out for the team that matches.

I guess that's the danger of drafting one who tops out as a 4-star player that maybe you have to match a large contract to keep them even if they are your 3rd best guy. But again, this is a premium position around the league right now and one we haven't been able to fill.

This draft has tons of 3 and D wings. Murray is not much different from them imo and also not turning 22 with the same amount of D-1 experience (2 seasons).

 

[pdxKingsFan]

I was thinking of a three-team trade including Indiana's Myles Turner and #6 pick. The Pacers would take Jaden Ivey at #4 and also add Richaun Holmes (who plays well with Haliburton) and PJ Washington to replace a guy they're probably losing in a year anyway. We would get Kelly Oubre and the #6 and #13 picks in exchange for Richaun Holmes and #4 and the Hornets would get Myles Turner to solve their front court issues in exchange for PJ, Kelly Oubre's expiring deal and their #13 pick and they'd still have the #15 pick to add another piece to their new Lamelo/Bridges/Turner core.

I wouldn't mind something like this at all.

 

[midtowner]

Here’s a solid Keegan Murray scouting report:

 

[ESP47]

The more I watch on Murray, the more I wonder if we're actually going to wind up drafting Jae Crowder 2.0 if we pick him.

I just don't know if his "stuff" is going to translate to the NBA. He scored 23.5ppg but how many of those points were due to him taking advantage of guys inside while throwing up ugly shots that went in? He is very efficient even while throwing up a lot of junk in the paint but will those types of shots be available in the NBA? He has a really slow first step and a loose handle. I just have a feeling that his meat and potatoes isn't going to translate to the NBA and that he will strictly be a 3&D player.

I do like his 3pt shot the more I watch him. Confident with a good release and he's accurate.

Take away his inside work against smaller and less talented players and is he really just a 12ppg player masquerading as a 23.5ppg player?

 

[Kingster]

I have Ivey rated #2 in the draft. To me he's very close to Fox as a comp in terms of speed and quickness, but with a better outside shot at the same stage of his career. I'd still trade him if I could get a good young vet that would actually fit with this team. You're either all-in or you're not when it comes to building for the playoffs. You can't be one foot in, one foot out, making moves for next year and making moves for five years from now. Stick with the plan and obtain what will materially propel this team to the playoffs next year. Ivey is not that guy; he's a redundancy, and as such numerous compromises would be forced on the Kings' coaching staff and it would send a message to this team of getting some rental who isn't going to be here for very long, waiting for the mid-season trade deadline for what this team will "really" look like. Uncertainty would prevail. Ambivalence would prevail. The wishy-washiness of this organization would prevail. All of which would be terrible for the culture and for getting to the playoffs.

My dream come true would be for Ivey to be drafted ahead of the Kings, only to have Banchero drop in the Kings' lap. He's #1 in my draft book, and he would add physicallity and excellent ball handling and passing skills that would be synergistic with Sabonis and the rest of the team. And yes, if there is a young excellent vet who would be better than Banchero, sure, I'd trade Banchero too.

 

[ESP47]

I have Ivey rated #2 in the draft. To me he's very close to Fox as a comp in terms of speed and quickness, but with a better outside shot at the same stage of his career. I'd still trade him if I could get a good young vet that would actually fit with this team. You're either all-in or you're not when it comes to building for the playoffs. You can't be one foot in, one foot out, making moves for next year and making moves for five years from now. Stick with the plan and obtain what will materially propel this team to the playoffs next year. Ivey is not that guy; he's a redundancy, and as such numerous compromises would be forced on the Kings' coaching staff and it would send a message to this team of getting some rental who isn't going to be here for very long, waiting for the mid-season trade deadline for what this team will "really" look like. Uncertainty would prevail. Ambivalence would prevail. The wishy-washiness of this organization would prevail. All of which would be terrible for the culture and for getting to the playoffs.

My dream come true would be for Ivey to be drafted ahead of the Kings, only to have Banchero drop in the Kings' lap. He's #1 in my draft book, and he would add physicallity and excellent ball handling and passing skills that would be synergistic with Sabonis and the rest of the team. And yes, if there is a young excellent vet who would be better than Banchero, sure, I'd trade Banchero too.

This is my wish. Really hoping Banchero drops to us. I wouldn't trade him unless it was an absolute no brainer though.