Kings trade Tyrese and Buddy for Sabonis and Holiday and Lamb
- Thread starter Tetsujin
- Start date
While I agree with almost all of this, part of drafting well is buying low and selling high and knowing when to do which. I think we did that in every transaction this deadline including Haliburton (even if it was cold and heartless). It's encouraging to have a GM who might be cold and heartless but also sound at talent evaluation. I still consider his only mistake to be TT and he was part of the Indy deal so I guess water under the bridge.
I think this team as built today is a shoe in for a 6 seed during a full year. Yes we need 4 or better but we kept our draft pick and it's hard not to see Holmes out the door this summer unless he becomes a huge glue piece when Sabonis is off court.
This team with Haliburton and not Sabonis was more than 2 years away from anything but a 10 seed. And then Haliburton gets paid and everyone turns on him like they have Fox. It sucks but that's the trend.
Also as much as I love him I don't think we traded LeBron. Steph or even Dame here.
I think this team as built today is a shoe in for a 6 seed during a full year. Yes we need 4 or better but we kept our draft pick and it's hard not to see Holmes out the door this summer unless he becomes a huge glue piece when Sabonis is off court.
This team with Haliburton and not Sabonis was more than 2 years away from anything but a 10 seed. And then Haliburton gets paid and everyone turns on him like they have Fox. It sucks but that's the trend.
Also as much as I love him I don't think we traded LeBron. Steph or even Dame here.
Kings also didn't trade for Lebron, Steph or Dame. Considering both teams had similar records at the time of the trade, from a national perspective, the Kings weren't necessarily trading Haliburton for a difference maker. Two time all star is a title, but the significance of that can be debated. What have you done for me lately can also come into play.
I don't think the Kings made the wrong choice. They made A choice, which is better than sitting on your hands and hoping things get better. Better than sitting on 3 quality point guards and not maximizing their talent. A trade had to be made.
Every move will be suspect and nothing will change in the tone from the national media until the Kings start winning games consistently. That's the only remedy.
I don't think the Kings made the wrong choice. They made A choice, which is better than sitting on your hands and hoping things get better. Better than sitting on 3 quality point guards and not maximizing their talent. A trade had to be made.
Every move will be suspect and nothing will change in the tone from the national media until the Kings start winning games consistently. That's the only remedy.
Sure but it's not like Sabonis was having a ridiculously down year or anything. He was averaging 18.9 points, 12.1 rebounds, and five assists a game and, even though they were all down, his advanced metrics were still pretty good despite Carlisle doing absolutely nothing to tailor his system to the best player on his team. People were talking about Sabonis being an all-star snub up until he got traded, after which he apparently became a scrub.
Sabonis has actually been better this season than his 2 all-star years. But Brog being hurt a good chunk of the season and Durate/LeVert chucking super inefficient shots as opposed to TJ Warren and Doug McDermot elite efficiency has been a main reason they've been bad. And instead of featuring Sabonis more, Carlisle had him a less of a focal point offensively than either of his 2 all-star bid years.
My issue is that everyone acted like Sac traded for the third best player in the trade (also acting like we unnecessarily threw Buddy in instead of acknowledging he's been an albatross for 3 seasons now and wrecked our cap situation if we wanted to keep Bogi). I think that the Bogi-Buddy situation parallels what would have become with Fox and Haliburton over time. If I was picking one in a vacuum I might keep the lower priced player but I think people were really sleeping on Fox too. As I've said a few times, there are probably a few GMs who weren't fielding serious offers on Fox who probably will have to report to their owners come summer and ask why they didn't jump (if he really was available - there is always the conspiracy scenario that Fox's "injury" was a ruse to showcase the untouchable Haliburton to extract maximum value - I think they did just that edit: the value not the ruse part).
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I feel like he could be an elite #2 but if he is your #1 you are not a playoff team. Happy to be wrong. I just see him more as Robin a la CJ or Klay.
But that's a really good thing because he can fit in really well with any team you are building, unlike Fox, or I think the problem Indy ran into trying to feature both Sabonis and Turner.
But that's a really good thing because he can fit in really well with any team you are building, unlike Fox, or I think the problem Indy ran into trying to feature both Sabonis and Turner.
I think Hali ends up being one of the best #2's for a contender you can find. He just has such a complimentary skill-set that can enhance a star and role players around him. Like if you put him next to a Luka/Embiid/Jokic/KD, those teams all get significantly better and he'll find a way to really raise the ceilings of those type of players/teams.
But like you said, I don't see him ever being in that #1 tier. He just doesn't having the scoring skill-set or mentality and he has a LONG way to go to even being average on defense. Which in part was why Hali/Fox wasn't working; both guys have been really poor on defense in their time on the court.
But like you said, I don't see him ever being in that #1 tier. He just doesn't having the scoring skill-set or mentality and he has a LONG way to go to even being average on defense. Which in part was why Hali/Fox wasn't working; both guys have been really poor on defense in their time on the court.
I think there's a chance that Hali can be an offensive Pippen type player. He's averaged almost 18ppg over the last month and has one of the best 3pt shots in the game. I can see him getting close to 20ppg next year depending on how things goes in Indy. He doesn't have go to moves that work in a pinch but he does have good handles and that shifty move he uses to lose players near the perimeter that work to his advantage. His shot is deadly almost no matter where he releases.
If he can turn his floater game into a contact at the rim to get to the line game, he'll be a real solid scorer.
If he can turn his floater game into a contact at the rim to get to the line game, he'll be a real solid scorer.
Pacers have one of the worst all time records in close games(3 points or less separating teams with 2 min to go) in NBA history.They were something like 1-16 at the last time i saw this mentioned in the media.Carlisle plays exclusively trough his guards(meaning Lavert or Brogdon dribbles the ball for 20 sec and then takes the most difficult shot possible at the end of the games).If they had an average success to close games they would have been .500 team or better.
Good article by Tyrese:
https://www.theplayerstribune.com/p...ba-basketball-sacramento-kings-indiana-pacers
https://www.theplayerstribune.com/p...ba-basketball-sacramento-kings-indiana-pacers
I am Lithuanian basketball fanatic so i watch most of the Pelicans and Kings games(Pacers before the trade). Naturally i root for those teams as well. Obviously it sucks to be jumping from one team to another based on the trades but i live in NJ and can't stand Knicks or Nets(so much more fun to root for a small market team for me) so that's what happens. Hopefully Kings extend Sabonis and i can concentrate on one team for the rest of his career.
A little off topic, but what is really meant by a “number one” and a “number two”. I’m not trying to make any parallel to Hali here, but is Paul a number two and Booker a number one? Who is more valuable? A number one scoring option is completely different than asking if a player can be the first or second best player on a contending team.
Monte: “Hey man, I just wanted to let you know that we made a trade, and we’re going to be sending you to Indiana. I wish you the best.”
WTF.
Look, Monte's job #1 is to make the team better for the long haul and I think this trade did that. I also appreciate that the NBA is a business, Tyrese is a young multimillionaire, etc. etc. I even appreciate that Monte still had real work to do w/the trade deadline looming when he had that conversation.
But you've GOT to do better than that, man. At least acknowledge the young man's shock, that this was a really hard decision, that if there was any way... blah blah. That **** matters. That, and what happens next/since could even make the difference between Tyrese considering the Kings in a few years if/when he hits free agency - or not.
Y'know, people skills.
Sheesh.
And, oh yeah: "Harrison rolled through with one of the most encouraging and supportive calls I’ve ever received."
LOVE me some Black Falcon, tell you wut. And put some RESPEK on Luke Walton's name, too!
WTF.
Look, Monte's job #1 is to make the team better for the long haul and I think this trade did that. I also appreciate that the NBA is a business, Tyrese is a young multimillionaire, etc. etc. I even appreciate that Monte still had real work to do w/the trade deadline looming when he had that conversation.
But you've GOT to do better than that, man. At least acknowledge the young man's shock, that this was a really hard decision, that if there was any way... blah blah. That **** matters. That, and what happens next/since could even make the difference between Tyrese considering the Kings in a few years if/when he hits free agency - or not.
Y'know, people skills.
Sheesh.
And, oh yeah: "Harrison rolled through with one of the most encouraging and supportive calls I’ve ever received."
LOVE me some Black Falcon, tell you wut. And put some RESPEK on Luke Walton's name, too!
i mean, Tyrese even says in the article that there was more said but he didn’t say what they were. I’d also prefer that my GM not be sentimental and too attached to the players. That’s what leads to Daryll Morey selling the farm to bring in James Harden despite the questionable fit.
the best director I ever had on a project was a hard nosed guy who never got too close to the project to make the hard choices. The worst director I ever had treated every single cast member and staff member like his best friend. There‘s probably a happy medium there but in my mind, the owner and the coach are the players’ “friends” while the GM always has to be the bad cop.
it would also be dumb for Monte to be thinking of how things could look in seven years when Tyrese is eligible for UFA when Monte’s only on contract for another two right now.
the best director I ever had on a project was a hard nosed guy who never got too close to the project to make the hard choices. The worst director I ever had treated every single cast member and staff member like his best friend. There‘s probably a happy medium there but in my mind, the owner and the coach are the players’ “friends” while the GM always has to be the bad cop.
it would also be dumb for Monte to be thinking of how things could look in seven years when Tyrese is eligible for UFA when Monte’s only on contract for another two right now.
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It's just McNair betting on himself that he can build this up enough in the next 2 years to extend Sabonis. If we get the Sabonis extension, the Kings will have won this trade. Straight up. If Sabonis walks, or we have to trade, him, losing Hali will a clear #2 only to passing on Luka in terms of long-term damage to the franchise.
We'll see. The early returns could not be any better in terms of reinvigorating the team and fanbase, despite losing one of the most beloved Kings we've had since the glory years.
We'll see. The early returns could not be any better in terms of reinvigorating the team and fanbase, despite losing one of the most beloved Kings we've had since the glory years.
His shooting numbers will come back to earth, but in two games with the Pacers Tyrese is averaging 22.5 points, 11 assists, 4 rebounds and 2 steals on 55.2 FG% and 55.6 3P% for a bad Indiana team. I definitely think Hali COULD average 20 ppg, and he may even do that if the Pacers continue to need his scoring. But I think you're a better team if he's not asked to carry the scoring load. Still, the fact that he can ramp up his scoring while continuing to be ridiculously efficient is really impressive.
I love that kid. I wanted him in Sacramento for the next decade too. I hope Fox and Sabonis can make the Kings a playoff team. Because we gave up one of my favorite Kings players ever to team them up.
As for Monte - I think that conversation has to be short and to the point. First, because a kid that didn't want to be traded just got traded and you're the guy that made the deal. There's only going to be so much Tyrese would want to hear from him at that point. You want to rip the bandage off and let him the kid process things. Secondly, because you're still working on other deals before the trade deadline. His teammates and the staff will console him. You have to get back to work.
Hali was a success story for McNair. A sign that he'd drafted the right player and was hopefully getting the team back on track. I'm guessing it wasn't easy to trade him away. And that's before you account for what a good human being he is.
I love that kid. I wanted him in Sacramento for the next decade too. I hope Fox and Sabonis can make the Kings a playoff team. Because we gave up one of my favorite Kings players ever to team them up.
As for Monte - I think that conversation has to be short and to the point. First, because a kid that didn't want to be traded just got traded and you're the guy that made the deal. There's only going to be so much Tyrese would want to hear from him at that point. You want to rip the bandage off and let him the kid process things. Secondly, because you're still working on other deals before the trade deadline. His teammates and the staff will console him. You have to get back to work.
Hali was a success story for McNair. A sign that he'd drafted the right player and was hopefully getting the team back on track. I'm guessing it wasn't easy to trade him away. And that's before you account for what a good human being he is.
C'mon, Tetsu. Tyrese says: "There were maybe a couple more words after that. We both said thank you." That's hardly a ringing endorsement of whatever additional few words Monte might have said.
And I'm clearly not saying anything about being "too attached" to players. I support this trade, and certainly support a GM doing what he has to do to improve them team. But, yeah, "there‘s probably a happy medium there" and Monte didn't find it. Just like he didn't come close to finding it w/Kyle Guy. And others, we should now suspect.
It's called decency. Treating people like they're more than widgets, especially since Tyrese had every reason to believe he'd be there for the long haul was clearly deeply invested in the team and the city. I certainly hope that if you, or any of us, getting laid off from a job we care about and are invested in we get more than “Hey man, I just wanted to let you know that we're laying you off. I wish you the best. Thanks.”
It's not *that* hard - and it costs nothing. And if you think treating people well doesn't make good business sense...
And I'm clearly not saying anything about being "too attached" to players. I support this trade, and certainly support a GM doing what he has to do to improve them team. But, yeah, "there‘s probably a happy medium there" and Monte didn't find it. Just like he didn't come close to finding it w/Kyle Guy. And others, we should now suspect.
It's called decency. Treating people like they're more than widgets, especially since Tyrese had every reason to believe he'd be there for the long haul was clearly deeply invested in the team and the city. I certainly hope that if you, or any of us, getting laid off from a job we care about and are invested in we get more than “Hey man, I just wanted to let you know that we're laying you off. I wish you the best. Thanks.”
It's not *that* hard - and it costs nothing. And if you think treating people well doesn't make good business sense...
I mean, what the **** was he supposed to do? Spend two hours during his busiest time of the year consoling the guy on how he just traded him? What could he possible have said that would have been better in that situation? "Gee, I'm really sorry to do this to ya." "It's not you, it's us." "We just need some time to work on ourselves." "I'm moving to Colorado." "I've been sleeping with your best friend for the last six months."
Nothing Monte could have said then would have made a difference. If anything it would have made things worse. When Petrie made trades, he would make Rick Adelman do the phone calls. Would that be preferable?
As fans who get invested in these guys not just as cogs of a sports team but as icons and broad figures, it might be hard for us to reckon with but for GMs and players, this is a business and the good ones appear to treat it as such.
If being friendly and a good guy were the most important qualities of a GM, Vlade would have already won us a championship.
Nothing Monte could have said then would have made a difference. If anything it would have made things worse. When Petrie made trades, he would make Rick Adelman do the phone calls. Would that be preferable?
As fans who get invested in these guys not just as cogs of a sports team but as icons and broad figures, it might be hard for us to reckon with but for GMs and players, this is a business and the good ones appear to treat it as such.
If being friendly and a good guy were the most important qualities of a GM, Vlade would have already won us a championship.
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