The last couple of weeks has given us the blueprint to competent defense though. Davion on the point of attack and Harkless pressuring off the backside, have the big play adjusted drop. Don’t know why it took us half a season to realize that our defense would improve if we started using our best defenders but it’s finally happening.
Kings trade Tyrese and Buddy for Sabonis and Holiday and Lamb
- Thread starter Tetsujin
- Start date
It’s been forever since every single app or talking head I’ve come across outside of CA has been unanimous in wondering what the heck the kings are doing. Just got my alert on my SCORE app just disparaging the kings for making a move that a team that’s close would have made, not a team that has sucked for so long. Does Vivek ever get tired of being the laughing stock to EVERYONE? I thought I’d come across one, just one source that would have applauded this move.
If you told me we were trading Hali I'd be p'd because I'd expect us to be getting lesser players back or still giving up highly coveted pieced in the deal. If you told me Buddy was the salary component and we'd get an all star caliber talent plus a competent shooter who plays D back as the salary filler I'd be pretty happy. The fact I wasn't high on Sabonis on D tempers my excitement but I'm also willing to consider I am going on reputation alone.
Losing Hali is a kick in the junk absolutely. But I think we got the best return possible.
Losing Hali is a kick in the junk absolutely. But I think we got the best return possible.
Really sad to see Halliburton go and really sad to see there not being an emphasis on the defensive side of the ball. We’ve basically been in the bottom 3rd of the league on defense 16 years straight.
Sabonis is good and young but difficult to build around. Fox is good and young but difficult to build around. Fox and Sabonis are both not particularly good defenders. McNair has his work cut out for him to say the least.
On a somewhat side note, it’s obvious that we’re willing to sell off youth, assets, etc. to try and win now. But if that’s the case, why is Barnes talked about so much in trade talks? He seems like someone McNair would want to keep to try and help them win now. You have to ask the question…if I’m trading Barnes, who am I getting back at SF/PF? There doesn’t seem to be a lot out there that makes sense.
I think most everyone on this site knows I’d like to see a Holmes for PJ Washington/Ish Smith and that trade makes even more sense with Sabonis at C considering Washington is a solid defender, weak side shot blocker, shooter, and passer. That leaves you with a Mitchell-Fox-Barnes-Washington-Sabonis starting lineup. Not horrible but still too many defensive holes for my liking which got me thinking of a way to move Barnes while trying to…
MEM Gets: Harrison Barnes
MEM Gives: Kyle Anderson & Ziaire Williams
Why for MEM? Consolidate some of their rotation pieces for a piece who can help them more with their playoff push.
SAC Gets: Kyle Anderson & Ziaire Williams
SAC Gives: Harrison Barnes
Why for SAC? Anderson gives us a stop gap SF/PF this year to keep our win now chances alive. Also get Ziaire to give us another young asset to add to our long term core.
PG - Mitchell / Smith
SG - Fox / Holiday / Lamb / Ramsey / Davis
SF - Anderson / Williams / Woodard
PF - Washington / Harkless / Bagley / Metu
C - Sabonis / Jones / Len
Anderson and Washington are a significant upgrade defensively over Barnes and Bagley and they’re both much better rim protectors to help cover for Sabonis. The passing and playmaking also sees a huge upgrade. All 5 starters would be able to make somewhat complex reads and find the open man. Shooting could be the biggest question mark among this group as we’d be going from Fox-Haliburton-Barnes-Bagley-Holmes to Mitchell-Fox-Anderson-Washington-Sabonis. Washington is shooting 39% from 3, Anderson 35% from 3 (47% from corner 3), Sabonis 32% from 3, and Mitchell has been shooting 35% from 3 since Dec 1st. It’s not going to be elite but the fact that’d we at least have 5 guys that are capable of knocking down 3s may open up the floor a bit more.
Then going into the 2022 off-season, we’d have the following players under contract:
PG - Mitchell
SG - Fox / Davis / Ramsey
SF - Williams / Holiday / Woodard
PF - Washington / Harkless / Metu
C - Sabonis / Len
2022 Picks - SAC 1st / SAC 2nd / CHI 2nd
If we keep our cap sheet clean, this also leaves us about ~$50 mil in cap space during the 2023 off-season with Fox, Sabonis, Washington (cap hold), Mitchell, Williams, Woodard, 2022 SAC 1st, and 2023 SAC 1st. If that bunch of youngsters looks promising, who knows? Maybe we can bring a substantial free agent to boost us even more.
Moving Hield’s salary was an under the radar move that’s not going to get attention from casual fans but it makes our cap sheet extremely clean and flexible for that 2023 off-season while having all of our major assets still locked up.
Sabonis is good and young but difficult to build around. Fox is good and young but difficult to build around. Fox and Sabonis are both not particularly good defenders. McNair has his work cut out for him to say the least.
On a somewhat side note, it’s obvious that we’re willing to sell off youth, assets, etc. to try and win now. But if that’s the case, why is Barnes talked about so much in trade talks? He seems like someone McNair would want to keep to try and help them win now. You have to ask the question…if I’m trading Barnes, who am I getting back at SF/PF? There doesn’t seem to be a lot out there that makes sense.
I think most everyone on this site knows I’d like to see a Holmes for PJ Washington/Ish Smith and that trade makes even more sense with Sabonis at C considering Washington is a solid defender, weak side shot blocker, shooter, and passer. That leaves you with a Mitchell-Fox-Barnes-Washington-Sabonis starting lineup. Not horrible but still too many defensive holes for my liking which got me thinking of a way to move Barnes while trying to…
- Not hurt our win now chances this year
- Improve the defense
- Improve the rim protection
- Improve the future of the team
MEM Gets: Harrison Barnes
MEM Gives: Kyle Anderson & Ziaire Williams
Why for MEM? Consolidate some of their rotation pieces for a piece who can help them more with their playoff push.
SAC Gets: Kyle Anderson & Ziaire Williams
SAC Gives: Harrison Barnes
Why for SAC? Anderson gives us a stop gap SF/PF this year to keep our win now chances alive. Also get Ziaire to give us another young asset to add to our long term core.
PG - Mitchell / Smith
SG - Fox / Holiday / Lamb / Ramsey / Davis
SF - Anderson / Williams / Woodard
PF - Washington / Harkless / Bagley / Metu
C - Sabonis / Jones / Len
Anderson and Washington are a significant upgrade defensively over Barnes and Bagley and they’re both much better rim protectors to help cover for Sabonis. The passing and playmaking also sees a huge upgrade. All 5 starters would be able to make somewhat complex reads and find the open man. Shooting could be the biggest question mark among this group as we’d be going from Fox-Haliburton-Barnes-Bagley-Holmes to Mitchell-Fox-Anderson-Washington-Sabonis. Washington is shooting 39% from 3, Anderson 35% from 3 (47% from corner 3), Sabonis 32% from 3, and Mitchell has been shooting 35% from 3 since Dec 1st. It’s not going to be elite but the fact that’d we at least have 5 guys that are capable of knocking down 3s may open up the floor a bit more.
Then going into the 2022 off-season, we’d have the following players under contract:
PG - Mitchell
SG - Fox / Davis / Ramsey
SF - Williams / Holiday / Woodard
PF - Washington / Harkless / Metu
C - Sabonis / Len
2022 Picks - SAC 1st / SAC 2nd / CHI 2nd
If we keep our cap sheet clean, this also leaves us about ~$50 mil in cap space during the 2023 off-season with Fox, Sabonis, Washington (cap hold), Mitchell, Williams, Woodard, 2022 SAC 1st, and 2023 SAC 1st. If that bunch of youngsters looks promising, who knows? Maybe we can bring a substantial free agent to boost us even more.
Moving Hield’s salary was an under the radar move that’s not going to get attention from casual fans but it makes our cap sheet extremely clean and flexible for that 2023 off-season while having all of our major assets still locked up.
Yeah I think if you can secure the PJ deal, you look to move Barnes to restock some future assets. Very similar to what you're doing here in grabbing a useful rotation player and a young piece and a pick (depending on the young player/rotation player) All of a sudden, Fox (24), Sabonis (25), Mitchell (23), Washington (23) is pretty good hedge in terms of future talent and an ascended timeline core. Ideally, you grab Cody Martin who is another quality 3&D wing guy who would fit with the above core.
Monte has to keep going, but the path of putting together a good team with future upside is still here. Needs to have a strong 2 more days.
Monte has to keep going, but the path of putting together a good team with future upside is still here. Needs to have a strong 2 more days.
The easiest route is to move Bagley/pick for Grant. I can't see any sense being made of moving Barnes at this point unless Monte is trying to reset his cap around Sabonis/Fox which simply is probably too hard to do at this point. If you are constructing a team through FA you have to do it like Vlade did, when his stars or core are on cheaper deals.
Well big time free agents aren’t really attracted to bottom dwelling teams. If we’re the 6th-8th with a lot of youngsters still growing, that might be enough to convince someone.
But again, we need to look competitive and look like a franchise headed in the right directions. Those are massive question marks that I would never dream of guaranteeing.
But again, we need to look competitive and look like a franchise headed in the right directions. Those are massive question marks that I would never dream of guaranteeing.
I can see the reverse too. They have a big who loves to set screens and when he catches the ball on pick and roll he can then create for others. As long as the Kings have enough shooting and play Sabonis at C then they could become one of the best pick and roll combos offensively. And the other end? What other end? There's no other end, lol.
Just saw this trade. My initial Reaction is that it’s horrible. I hope there’s something else in the works. I’m not really sure what to think about this except to say that I don’t understand why we would trade a player with his potential. This doesn’t really make us better IMHO. This franchise appears to be a lost cause. Why do I even bother….
Just rewatched the Sixers games. Man that was special. Almost completed a miracle comeback. 38 points, 5/9 from 3, 7:2 assist:TO. Probably should've taken the last shot but set up Barnes well enough for a would've-been game winner. Probably gonna go back and watch more of his games. Painful what we just gave up.
The downside to this trade is insane. We have 2 full years of Sabonis + Fox. Finish at the 9th seed twice means little chance of adding thru the draft. If Sabonis doesn't sign an extension and we bottom out, we're waiting til 2025 to get a high draft pick. Wrong timeline for Fox. Might make it til 2030 with no playoffs.
The downside to this trade is insane. We have 2 full years of Sabonis + Fox. Finish at the 9th seed twice means little chance of adding thru the draft. If Sabonis doesn't sign an extension and we bottom out, we're waiting til 2025 to get a high draft pick. Wrong timeline for Fox. Might make it til 2030 with no playoffs.
I was shocked when I saw this news a few hours ago and I've been sitting on it, thinking about it and trying to understand why it was done.
I think I get it now:
This is about maximization of value. Unfortunately, De'Aaron has regressed this year, and it has hurt his trade value.
I bet you Monte's initial offer was De'Aaron and there was no bite.
And unfortunately, with the great play of Davion and Haliburton, that trade value probably wasn't going to get much higher.
Tyrese's trade value, on the other hand, is sky high right now. He has loads of potential and is on a rookie contract, definitely something attractive for the pacers.
I really don't think this is so much the franchise going all in on Fox as it is maximizing trade values.
What is likely to happen now is that Fox is going to blow up and rebuild his trade value.
Now the sitting out makes more sense to me.
Fox was probably sitting out to showcase Haliburton and to actually get his ankle right.
Perhaps Monte also saw something during this time that made him want to pull the trigger not sure.
So all in all what is probably going to happen now is that the Kings are going to shoot for the play-in and Fox's value will increase.
Then as far as what will happen in the off-season is fair game. Could be that Fox is traded for a top pick or another player that fits the team more, you never know.
I really loved Hali and I think we all did that's why it feels like such a gut punch to us. He was really a great personality and competitor.
I also think what this means is that Barnes and/or Holmes will be gone by the trade deadline, so long as they get a piece that fits the team more. Holmes and Barnes value are likely pretty high right now, especially Barnes perhaps also due to the sitting out of De'Aaron.
I think I get it now:
This is about maximization of value. Unfortunately, De'Aaron has regressed this year, and it has hurt his trade value.
I bet you Monte's initial offer was De'Aaron and there was no bite.
And unfortunately, with the great play of Davion and Haliburton, that trade value probably wasn't going to get much higher.
Tyrese's trade value, on the other hand, is sky high right now. He has loads of potential and is on a rookie contract, definitely something attractive for the pacers.
I really don't think this is so much the franchise going all in on Fox as it is maximizing trade values.
What is likely to happen now is that Fox is going to blow up and rebuild his trade value.
Now the sitting out makes more sense to me.
Fox was probably sitting out to showcase Haliburton and to actually get his ankle right.
Perhaps Monte also saw something during this time that made him want to pull the trigger not sure.
So all in all what is probably going to happen now is that the Kings are going to shoot for the play-in and Fox's value will increase.
Then as far as what will happen in the off-season is fair game. Could be that Fox is traded for a top pick or another player that fits the team more, you never know.
I really loved Hali and I think we all did that's why it feels like such a gut punch to us. He was really a great personality and competitor.
I also think what this means is that Barnes and/or Holmes will be gone by the trade deadline, so long as they get a piece that fits the team more. Holmes and Barnes value are likely pretty high right now, especially Barnes perhaps also due to the sitting out of De'Aaron.