Fox or Haliburton?

Sac4cwebb

Sac4cwebb

G-League
#1
#1
If the Kings were to trade one of these players for Sabonis, which [one would you want to hang on to? I would prefer to hang on to Halliburton,as his defense and playmaking ability are better than Fox's. Granted Fox can get to the rim at will, but that hasn't translated into Kings's wins.
 
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funkykingston

funkykingston

Super Moderator
Staff member
#2
#2
Haliburton is the easier player to build around. That's definitely not the only criteria, but it's an important one. Fox will always require additional shooters around him to space the floor while Tyrese creates space himself and is the more natural playmaker and defender.

The other consideration is that Haliburton's contract is significantly smaller for the next couple years. That makes it easier to move Fox for similar salary while Hali would need to be dealt for someone else on a rookie deal or in a package to match salaries.
 
T

The_Jamal

Hall of Famer
#3
#3
I mean, ideally it's both since teams are generally allowed to have more than 1 good player. But at this point, it's time to ship off the Vlade core and just get a full reset. Head into next season with a fresh coach/fresh young roster that can build up together. Get every level of the power structure on the same page.
 
L

Livinthedream

All-Star
#4
#4
Sac4cwebb said:
If the Kings were to trade one of these players for Sommos, which [one would you want to hang on to? I would prefer to hang on to Halliburton,as his defense and playmaking ability are better than Fox's. Granted Fox can get to the rim at will, but that hasn't translated into Kings's wins.
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Is this based off of the reports that the Kings have now made Fox AND Haliburton available in trade talks?
 
E

ESP47

All-Star
#5
#5
If this franchise was smart they would give their veterans rest days with minute restrictions at the end of the year to keep from winning meaningless games against smarter franchises.

They could have gone into next year with Fox, Haliburton, Scottie Barnes and a top 5 pick using this simple formula. Could have picked higher in the draft nearly every year by doing this.

Unfortunately this is not a smart franchise.
 
Sac4cwebb

Sac4cwebb

G-League
#8
#8
Livinthedream said:
Is this based off of the reports that the Kings have now made Fox AND Haliburton available in trade talks?
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Yes it is. Some Phili journalists want Halli, Hield, and Bagley--https://section215.com/2022/01/06/philadelphia-76ers-target-kings-3/- but that is asking for too much,. The salaries of Fox and Simmons are pretty close, making it a one for one deal,
 
funkykingston

funkykingston

Super Moderator
Staff member
#9
#9
Spike said:
Webber or Stojakovic? We can't have both.
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The difference being that Peja and CWebb played together fantastically. So far Fox seems a bit better without Haliburton, but Haliburton looks like a completely different player when he's the lead ballhandler/playmaker and Fox isn't playing.

They certainly could figure it out, but both are better with the ball in their hands - Fox because he's not an off-ball scorer and Tyrese because he controls the game to a much greater degree when running the offense.
 
Spike

Spike

Subsidiary Intermediary
Staff member
#10
#10
Sac4cwebb said:
Yes it is. Some Phili journalists want Halli, Hield, and Bagley--https://section215.com/2022/01/06/philadelphia-76ers-target-kings-3/- but that is asking for too much,. The salaries of Fox and Simmons are pretty close, making it a one for one deal,
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Well, I wouldn't call a fansided opinion article journalism...but I would happily give Hield, Bagley, and a 1st for Simmons. I'm still of the mind that Fox and Haliburton can definitely work together - there looks to be cohesion in the past few games. IDK why we would create a different problem when the backcourt is pretty set with talent that CAN work together - a good coach can make it happen. It's not like Haliburton can't step into a 3 off of a drive from Fox. What isn't working, and won't work this year, is Walton for the start, and then Gentry to finish out the year running the same garbage that's been existent all year.
 
Capt. Factorial

Capt. Factorial

ceterum censeo delendum esse Argentum
Staff member
#11
#11
Spike said:
Webber or Stojakovic? We can't have both.
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I never quite understood that argument. I didn't see much issue in building a championship-level team around both players (we did!), who were complementary to each other.

The Fox/Haliburton argument makes at least a bit more sense for a few reasons:

1) They are not perfectly complementary. Although they have very different skillsets (Fox a great scorer who lives by speed and attacking the basket, Haliburton a much more reliable outside shooter and better passer), it seems that both work best when they are the lead guard. Every possession you play them together, one of them has to play off the ball, so you don't get full utilization.

2) Our current team has some obvious weaknesses in defense and rebounding that are not helped by an imbalanced guard-heavy roster.

3) We are a non-destination for free agents and looking down the barrel of yet another season mired just outside of the playoffs and thus without a top draft pick. Acquiring talent for us is difficult, the best way to do it is in trade, and our two best trade assets are...Fox and Haliburton.

This isn't an endorsement of trading one or either or both, but an acknowledgment that the team as constructed isn't getting anywhere and that the easiest way to shake things up may be a trade. Hey, getting the #1 pick would be my first choice, but I don't see that happening without a ton of luck.
 
Spike

Spike

Subsidiary Intermediary
Staff member
#12
#12
funkykingston said:
The difference being that Peja and CWebb played together fantastically. So far Fox seems a bit better without Haliburton, but Haliburton looks like a completely different player when he's the lead ballhandler/playmaker and Fox isn't playing.

They certainly could figure it out, but both are better with the ball in their hands - Fox because he's not an off-ball scorer and Tyrese because he controls the game to a much greater degree when running the offense.
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But this site still had people clamoring for one/other to go, which is the point I'm trying to make. The other bonus is that both players are young enough to be able to figure it out with proper coaching.
 
KainLear

KainLear

Starter
#13
#13
Spike said:
But this site still had people clamoring for one/other to go, which is the point I'm trying to make. The other bonus is that both players are young enough to be able to figure it out with proper coaching.
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They don't just clamoring for one/other to go. Just read the post above you from Capt, that's our reasoning and why it isn't C-Webb/Peja.
 
gunks

gunks

Hall of Famer
#14
#14
Tough choice…

Fox still has that “what if his 3 point shooting becomes consistent” potential. He’s also rounding back into his top flight scorer shape. But if he never expands his skill set beyond what it is today, he’s never gonna be “that guy”.

Vs Hali who IS a threat from 3 and appears to be an elite playmaker. As others have stated, that’s an infinitely easier skill set to build around.

I’ll go with trade Fox, but ideally we keep both and ship out Buddy, Bags, and Barnes and try to get a high pick for once.
 
Entity

Entity

Hall of Famer
#16
#16
I’m not even concerned with these 2 that much. 3-5 needs overhaul. Barnes, Bagley, Holmes, Thompson, they can all kick rocks. Len and jones have value as 3rd or 4th big. Holmes could be kept as a 3rd big I guess. We need an inside scoring presence. It’s hard to close out games hoping fox hits his fade always or somebody hits a contested 3. Maybe we should get cousins and just play him the final 5 min
 
ShastaKingsFan

ShastaKingsFan

All-Star
#17
#17
SacTownKid said:
Hold on a sec, they are starting to get a feel for eachother now. It's been noticeable the last few games.
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They'll definitely get a little better together, the longer they play. I just don't think this dual point guard lineup ever turns them into a contender.

I don't trade Fox unless the return is an established player who is a better fit with Haliburton. A true SG/SF
 
T

Turgenev

Starter
#18
#18
If I had to choose (I don’t), I would choose Hali. I like his game and personality a little more and think he makes others better. He isn’t a great one on one defender but does make plays as a team defender. But the pair do have complimentary skills on offense, and I’m not convinced that the backcourt pairing is the most immediate issue. Our front court has a lot of cheap and serviceable guys but lacks talent and coherence. We have two wings, one is a good complimentary piece on offense but so-so on defence, the other is a reasonable defensive player but is unusable on offence. While Buddy and TD can put up good offensive numbers off the bench, neither are fans of scoring in the flow of an offence, and neither contribute positively to defence. Moving Fox may be the most obvious path to acquiring better wing/ frontcourt talent, but if I was able to make moves this season, I would be looking to shift Buddy, TD, HB, and the front court cast first.
 
2

206Fan

All-Star
#21
#21
It's Monta Ellis vs. Steph Curry. They played 2 full seasons together, before Monte was traded during Steph's 3rd season.

Monta Ellis was their 26-year-old franchise face who was drafted by team 40th overall. He won the Most Improved Player (MIP) award in his 2nd season, and broke out for 20ppg in his 3rd season, which is probably equivalent to 25ppg+ in today's game. However, in the entirety of his 7 season with the Warriors, they only had 2 winning seasons, and only went to the playoff once.

On the other hand, Stephen Curry was a 23-year-old "combo guard" who looked very impressive, averaging 18ppg in his second season. However, he had ankle issues throughout his first 3 seasons. He had ankle surgery right after his 2nd season, and he went onto miss most of his 3rd season with another ankle surgery. He was pretty much seen as injury prone with bad ankles.

The crazy thing? Both of these players filled up the stat sheet. During Curry's ROY run against Tyreke, Monta was playing great basketball, averaging a career high 25ppg and 5.3apg.

Despite the stats, it was obvious that it just wouldn't work. At that time, Monta looked like the better player who had no health concerns. Some people were also concerned about Steph being a full-time PG.

The choice came down to Monta vs. Steph. The Bucks were actually going to get Curry, but they pulled out because their medical team was worried about his ankles, so they got Monta Ellis instead.

With all of that being said, Haliburton is most likely not going to be the next Curry. However, I personally think we need to start fresh and trade Fox while his value is still high. He very much seems like Monta Ellis in this case. It's a risk vs. reward. I'm really not sure we have much left to risk at this point.
 
kingsboi

kingsboi

Hall of Famer
#28
#28
I say keep both for the time being. I know in order for the Kings to get talent they have to deal but they have other assets teams can use such as Holmes and Barnes. Hold out hope that picking in the 7-10 range will eventually net you another cornerstone building piece, it can happen, chances are higher while being in the lottery but let's be realistic, Kings as constructed aren't going to land in that sweet spot so make use of where you land.
 
M

midtowner

Starter
#29
#29
I really like Fox - as a personality and a player. Same with Mitch Richmond. If we could get Ben Simmons for Fox and trade our first rounder, Bagley and Thompson for Christian Wood, I’d start watching this team again.

Hali and Davion need to be the clear leaders on this team. They are culture changers.
 
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