Blow It Up

I'm over Holmes.

I hate Bagley and always will. Metu would get no minutes on any other team, Jones has been the best big by far lately and he is and will remain a journeyman big.

There is exactly ONE wing on this roster.

I'd trade Fox at this point for not-Ben Simmoneses because I feel it would take like 5 FRPs and like 5 young frontcourt prospects to make it serviceable. It's that bad.

(That, and Fox trade headline but not for Ben Simmons would cause an existential crisis for some people)
 
Okay then consider this: Damian Jones is 26. Fox, Davis, and Metu are 24. Mitchell is 23. Queta and Bagley are 22. Haliburton is 21. So your core may not be elite right now but the average age is 23 years old. They have a lot of room left to grow. And all I'm talking about is making the playoffs. If you can make the playoffs with a core that is 23 years old and nobody older than 26 you have a large window of opportunity to add to your core group. It's pretty rare that a team jumps from top of the lottery to contending without first losing a couple of playoff series. All we need to do to make the playoffs this season is finish with a .500 record. There's only 4 good teams in the West this year, finishing with a .500 or better record is not impossible -- we just need to find some consistency.

You're calling Queta/Jones/Metu/Bagley the worst frontcourt in the league but how can you even know that? Queta has played all of 4 minutes in his NBA career. Bagley has started less than a full season. Jones and Metu have played limited minutes. People were clowning me for calling Rudy Gobert elite in 2016. Since then he's won three DPOY awards. Nikola Jokic was drafted in the 2nd round and . If 15 years of losing has taught me anything it's that big name prospects frequently don't live up to the hype and big name free agents often end up being overpaid veterans who's effect on your salary cap outweighs their impact on the court.

And the truth is, the Western Conference is wide open right now with two teams at the top that are heavily reliant on a single star player (Golden State and Phoenix), a team which hasn't been able to advance past the Semifinals in the last 5 years (Utah) and Memphis team which is similar to ours, they just know how to play well together. If we were facing six or seven contending teams I would agree with you -- bottom out for star talent. That's been the story for most of the last decade but the bar has gotten a lot lower even without thinking about the play-in. Even a 6 seed is not out of the question. Our primary issue right now is not talent but fit. It's fixable. Especially in a world where most of the league still thinks the only way to win is to tank for top 5 picks.
Obviously I don't know if they would be the worst frontcourt in the league but if we ran those guys, I'd put big big money on them being bottom 5. I think you're over valuing our players because they're young and some of these guys have room left to grow but the odds of them growing enough to turn this squad into a playoff team has got to be extremely low. We've all learned that you can't judge a player too quickly but if there's anything we've grown accustomed to, it's watching bad basketball. As a fan base, we know it when we see it. It's not like this franchise has a track record of giving up on players too early, only to have them go flourish somewhere else. It's happened but not to the tune where they'd be a surefire playoff team if they had just held on.

I actually really like Jones but he's a back of the bench big along with Metu and Bagley. Queta needs a lot of time for seasoning but the odds of bigs like him becoming a force are usually pretty low. I'm happy with the pick but I wouldn't rely on him for anything for at least another full season. He's got a long way to go but he has shown impressive flashes in the G League.

Gunning for the playoffs right now is basically the same strategy they've always deployed. They see a glimmer of light at the end of the tunnel and talk themselves into this being the year. They'll miss out by a position in the standings and land themselves right in that familiar late lottery zone again. Even if they make the play in as the 10th seed, you know they'll just get bounced immediately. They're so close to being firmly in the top 5 in the draft, I see no reason to blow that to follow that carrot again. Acquire the talent in the draft and there won't be any decision making on whether they should tank or not because they'll win regardless.

What makes me even more confident that it's not the right decision is that the conference is very weak compared to previous years and the Kings are still in the exact same spot they've always been in. That means they've regressed. What are they going to do when the other teams improve? I'd put my money on other teams improving before the Kings because this is the worst franchise in all of sports.
 
Obviously I don't know if they would be the worst frontcourt in the league but if we ran those guys, I'd put big big money on them being bottom 5. I think you're over valuing our players because they're young and some of these guys have room left to grow but the odds of them growing enough to turn this squad into a playoff team has got to be extremely low. We've all learned that you can't judge a player too quickly but if there's anything we've grown accustomed to, it's watching bad basketball. As a fan base, we know it when we see it. It's not like this franchise has a track record of giving up on players too early, only to have them go flourish somewhere else. It's happened but not to the tune where they'd be a surefire playoff team if they had just held on.

I actually really like Jones but he's a back of the bench big along with Metu and Bagley. Queta needs a lot of time for seasoning but the odds of bigs like him becoming a force are usually pretty low. I'm happy with the pick but I wouldn't rely on him for anything for at least another full season. He's got a long way to go but he has shown impressive flashes in the G League.

Gunning for the playoffs right now is basically the same strategy they've always deployed. They see a glimmer of light at the end of the tunnel and talk themselves into this being the year. They'll miss out by a position in the standings and land themselves right in that familiar late lottery zone again. Even if they make the play in as the 10th seed, you know they'll just get bounced immediately. They're so close to being firmly in the top 5 in the draft, I see no reason to blow that to follow that carrot again. Acquire the talent in the draft and there won't be any decision making on whether they should tank or not because they'll win regardless.

What makes me even more confident that it's not the right decision is that the conference is very weak compared to previous years and the Kings are still in the exact same spot they've always been in. That means they've regressed. What are they going to do when the other teams improve? I'd put my money on other teams improving before the Kings because this is the worst franchise in all of sports.
The fact that the Kings organization is nothing other than pitiful is bad enough by itself, but the brain-trust deluding itself into thinking that making the play-in is some sort of praiseworthy achievement is beyond egregious. It’s nothing short of an affront to the entire fanbase.
 
Obviously I don't know if they would be the worst frontcourt in the league but if we ran those guys, I'd put big big money on them being bottom 5. I think you're over valuing our players because they're young and some of these guys have room left to grow but the odds of them growing enough to turn this squad into a playoff team has got to be extremely low. We've all learned that you can't judge a player too quickly but if there's anything we've grown accustomed to, it's watching bad basketball. As a fan base, we know it when we see it. It's not like this franchise has a track record of giving up on players too early, only to have them go flourish somewhere else. It's happened but not to the tune where they'd be a surefire playoff team if they had just held on.

I actually really like Jones but he's a back of the bench big along with Metu and Bagley. Queta needs a lot of time for seasoning but the odds of bigs like him becoming a force are usually pretty low. I'm happy with the pick but I wouldn't rely on him for anything for at least another full season. He's got a long way to go but he has shown impressive flashes in the G League.

Gunning for the playoffs right now is basically the same strategy they've always deployed. They see a glimmer of light at the end of the tunnel and talk themselves into this being the year. They'll miss out by a position in the standings and land themselves right in that familiar late lottery zone again. Even if they make the play in as the 10th seed, you know they'll just get bounced immediately. They're so close to being firmly in the top 5 in the draft, I see no reason to blow that to follow that carrot again. Acquire the talent in the draft and there won't be any decision making on whether they should tank or not because they'll win regardless.

What makes me even more confident that it's not the right decision is that the conference is very weak compared to previous years and the Kings are still in the exact same spot they've always been in. That means they've regressed. What are they going to do when the other teams improve? I'd put my money on other teams improving before the Kings because this is the worst franchise in all of sports.
You mean to say that had we just rolled with Donte Greene and Justin Williams and given them more time they would not have magically become all stars?
 

hrdboild

Moloch in whom I dream Angels!
Staff member
Obviously I don't know if they would be the worst frontcourt in the league but if we ran those guys, I'd put big big money on them being bottom 5. I think you're over valuing our players because they're young and some of these guys have room left to grow but the odds of them growing enough to turn this squad into a playoff team has got to be extremely low. We've all learned that you can't judge a player too quickly but if there's anything we've grown accustomed to, it's watching bad basketball. As a fan base, we know it when we see it. It's not like this franchise has a track record of giving up on players too early, only to have them go flourish somewhere else. It's happened but not to the tune where they'd be a surefire playoff team if they had just held on.

I actually really like Jones but he's a back of the bench big along with Metu and Bagley. Queta needs a lot of time for seasoning but the odds of bigs like him becoming a force are usually pretty low. I'm happy with the pick but I wouldn't rely on him for anything for at least another full season. He's got a long way to go but he has shown impressive flashes in the G League.

Gunning for the playoffs right now is basically the same strategy they've always deployed. They see a glimmer of light at the end of the tunnel and talk themselves into this being the year. They'll miss out by a position in the standings and land themselves right in that familiar late lottery zone again. Even if they make the play in as the 10th seed, you know they'll just get bounced immediately. They're so close to being firmly in the top 5 in the draft, I see no reason to blow that to follow that carrot again. Acquire the talent in the draft and there won't be any decision making on whether they should tank or not because they'll win regardless.

What makes me even more confident that it's not the right decision is that the conference is very weak compared to previous years and the Kings are still in the exact same spot they've always been in. That means they've regressed. What are they going to do when the other teams improve? I'd put my money on other teams improving before the Kings because this is the worst franchise in all of sports.
The one time in the last 15 years when we truly did bottom out and finish with the worst record in the league we picked 4th. And the best player of this generation was in that draft and went 7th so we can't even blame bad luck for missing out on that opportunity. And now with the way the lottery has been restructured the team with the worst record has a 48% chance of only picking 5th overall. I understand people are unhappy with how the team is playing but tanking is not any kind of a solution because all that's going to do is give us the same type of picks we've had in abundance for the last decade and gone nowhere with. You want 5 lottery picks? I give you Marvin Bagley (#2), De'Aaron Fox (#5), Buddy Hield (#6), Harrison Barnes (#7), Davion Mitchell (#9) and I'll throw in Tyrese Haliburton (#12) as a bonus. All that talent was acquired in the draft.

Mostly I see a bunch of adults throwing temper tantrums every time the team loses, calling these players losers and then demanding that the team lose even more so we can eventually somehow field a team of not losers I guess? I can't tell anyone else how to enjoy their sports but I feel like rooting for your own team to fail is a pretty miserable way to go about it. I should know. I've spent most of the last 10 years doing it. And I understand completely why you would argue on behalf of building a team with the lottery but you know what? We've tried that over and over and over and over again. And you're going to tell me with a straight face as a Sacramento Kings fan that what we really need here are more lottery picks to fix the problem? I don't believe it. We've had a dozen plus chances to do it by now and sabotaged every single one of them. And we will go on sabotaging every single one of them because we still haven't learned that great players don't develop in a vacuum.

It's not luck which has kept San Antonio in the playoff hunt for 20 years or transformed Golden State from a laughing stock to a model organization or allowed Indiana to draft serviceable starters with late first round picks almost every year. The environment needs to change first and that includes the fans as far as I'm concerned. There is no shortcut to a championship just like there's no shortcut to winning a basketball game. We lost this last game to Dallas the same way we've lost most of our games this season ... the players dribble around the perimeter and then fire up a three point jumper. That's about as lazy as it gets offensively. Sometimes they go in and that bails them out just enough to pretend it's working but if they want to win more than occasionally they need to start putting in the work every day, fighting for every rebound, freeing up their teammates with screens, moving without the ball. Hoping on lottery picks is the same thing as firing up those contested threes. It's lazy and it doesn't work and as long as us fans continue to act like losing is a strategy that will magically lead to winning this is exactly the team we deserve.

Here's all I'm offering as an alternative... let's see what we already have. Let's address the problems one at a time. Rebounding is a problem. Interior defense is a problem. Maybe try a bigger lineup? Maybe find some minutes for the best shot blocker on the roster even if he's raw? We're messing up too many defensive rotations or getting destroyed on mismatches. Maybe sign or trade for another wing who can guard 3s and 4s? Maybe pull players immediately when they make the same mistake twice in a row and tell them what they're doing wrong and then put them back in the game? I feel like half this roster has looked around and seen that their teammates aren't working hard and started to feel like they don't need to either. That's absolute death for any kind of a team. Working hard should be the bare minimum requirement just to earn minutes. Maybe there's no time to rebuild the entire offense mid-season but we could simplify it down to high low actions and pick and rolls and at least execute something correctly even if it's rudimentary and predictable. That's all Dallas beat us with. Can we try to develop the players we have right now instead of junking everything and pretending like things will be different next time if we just find players who will work harder?
 
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The one time in the last 15 years when we truly did bottom out and finish with the worst record in the league we picked 4th. And the best player of this generation was in that draft and went 7th so we can't even blame bad luck for missing out on that opportunity. And now with the way the lottery has been restructured the team with the worst record has a 48% chance of only picking 5th overall. I understand people are unhappy with how the team is playing but tanking is not any kind of a solution because all that's going to do is give us the same type of picks we've had in abundance for the last decade and gone nowhere with. You want 5 lottery picks? I give you Marvin Bagley (#2), De'Aaron Fox (#5), Buddy Hield (#6), Harrison Barnes (#7), Davion Mitchell (#9) and I'll throw in Tyrese Haliburton (#12) as a bonus. All that talent was acquired in the draft.

Mostly I see a bunch of adults throwing temper tantrums every time the team loses, calling these players losers and then demanding that the team lose even more so we can eventually somehow field a team of not losers I guess? I can't tell anyone else how to enjoy their sports but I feel like rooting for your own team to fail is a pretty miserable way to go about it. I should know. I've spent most of the last 10 years doing it. And I understand completely why you would argue on behalf of building a team with the lottery but you know what? We've tried that over and over and over and over again. And you're going to tell me with a straight face as a Sacramento Kings fan that what we really need here are more lottery picks to fix the problem? I don't believe it. We've had a dozen plus chances to do it by now and sabotaged every single one of them. And we will go on sabotaging every single one of them because we still haven't learned that great players don't develop in a vacuum.

It's not luck which has kept San Antonio in the playoff hunt for 20 years or transformed Golden State from a laughing stock to a model organization or allowed Indiana to draft serviceable starters with late first round picks almost every year. The environment needs to change first and that includes the fans as far as I'm concerned. There is no shortcut to a championship just like there's no shortcut to winning a basketball game. We lost this last game to Dallas the same way we've lost most of our games this season ... the players dribble around the perimeter and then fire up a three point jumper. That's about as lazy as it gets offensively. Sometimes they go in and that bails them out just enough to pretend it's working but if they want to win more than occasionally they need to start putting in the work every day, fighting for every rebound, freeing up their teammates with screens, moving without the ball. Hoping on lottery picks is the same thing as firing up those contested threes. It's lazy and it doesn't work and as long as us fans continue to act like losing is a strategy that will magically lead to winning this is exactly the team we deserve.

Here's all I'm offering as an alternative... let's see what we already have. Let's address the problems one at a time. Rebounding is a problem. Interior defense is a problem. Maybe try a bigger lineup? Maybe find some minutes for the best shot blocker on the roster even if he's raw? We're messing up too many defensive rotations or getting destroyed on mismatches. Maybe sign or trade for another wing who can guard 3s and 4s? Maybe pull players immediately when they make the same mistake twice in a row and tell them what they're doing wrong and then put them back in the game? I feel like half this roster has looked around and seen that their teammates aren't working hard and started to feel like they don't need to either. That's absolute death for any kind of a team. Working hard should be the bare minimum requirement just to earn minutes. Maybe there's no time to rebuild the entire offense mid-season but we could simplify it down to high low actions and pick and rolls and at least execute something correctly even if it's rudimentary and predictable. That's all Dallas beat us with. Can we try to develop the players we have right now instead of junking everything and pretending like things will be different next time if we just find players who will work harder?
No you're right, just thoughts, hopes, and the next head coach who will do all the things you've listed will make us a championship team.

Throwing some positive vibes as well.
 
Okay then consider this: Damian Jones is 26. Fox, Davis, and Metu are 24. Mitchell is 23. Queta and Bagley are 22. Haliburton is 21. So your core may not be elite right now but the average age is 23 years old. They have a lot of room left to grow. .
This might be the first time in basketball history where the average age of those guys listed is higher than their basketball IQ, there's no where to grow when aside from Haliburton you got dumb players who rely completely on athletic ability and are limited skill wise.
 
This might be the first time in basketball history where the average age of those guys listed is higher than their basketball IQ, there's no where to grow when aside from Haliburton you got dumb players who rely completely on athletic ability and are limited skill wise.
As buddy fan #1 I need to say that Buddy relies completely on his one skill (shooting) and is limited athletically lol. Can someone say groundbound?
 
I agree with you . IMO people are taking the "mental health" thing overboard as in simmons is sulking in depression. IMO The guy is just embarrassed and doesn't want to play in Philly after all that has happened. I would have "mental health " issues as well if I had to face that Philly crowd.
There are many different forms of depression and they don't all include sulking. Fear and avoidance are a big big part of the way some people express and deal with their personal depression.
 
Didn’t realize this board has so many board certified Psychiatrists.

I try to stay away from mental health discussions, including any involving Fox’s off the court anguish potentially impacting his on the court play, because I know I’m not qualified to have an opinion. And this is coming from someone, who actually does have a psych background (it was a useless undergrad major) and has worked in a psych lab (though it was cog psych and not abnormal psych, which is the territory that yhall are apparently experts in).
 
I've mulled this over in my mind all season re: Fox's woes.

Along with the other discussions, could it be that Fox completely bought the "bulk up" theory on him improving his play? He busted his tail in the off season to change his body.

Then the season started and he was just a bit slower, just a bit heavier, and not where he expected to be given the effort he put forth. It was as if he betrayed himself with his (and others) advice on how to improve. Now all that off season hard work was not only a waste but a detriment to his play.

Now he is stuck in a unpleasant situation and unsuitable body of his own making. Results have been no longer smiling, no extended conversations with players, and little enthusiasm. I can see it.
 
The one time in the last 15 years when we truly did bottom out and finish with the worst record in the league we picked 4th. And the best player of this generation was in that draft and went 7th so we can't even blame bad luck for missing out on that opportunity. And now with the way the lottery has been restructured the team with the worst record has a 48% chance of only picking 5th overall. I understand people are unhappy with how the team is playing but tanking is not any kind of a solution because all that's going to do is give us the same type of picks we've had in abundance for the last decade and gone nowhere with. You want 5 lottery picks? I give you Marvin Bagley (#2), De'Aaron Fox (#5), Buddy Hield (#6), Harrison Barnes (#7), Davion Mitchell (#9) and I'll throw in Tyrese Haliburton (#12) as a bonus. All that talent was acquired in the draft.

Mostly I see a bunch of adults throwing temper tantrums every time the team loses, calling these players losers and then demanding that the team lose even more so we can eventually somehow field a team of not losers I guess? I can't tell anyone else how to enjoy their sports but I feel like rooting for your own team to fail is a pretty miserable way to go about it. I should know. I've spent most of the last 10 years doing it. And I understand completely why you would argue on behalf of building a team with the lottery but you know what? We've tried that over and over and over and over again. And you're going to tell me with a straight face as a Sacramento Kings fan that what we really need here are more lottery picks to fix the problem? I don't believe it. We've had a dozen plus chances to do it by now and sabotaged every single one of them. And we will go on sabotaging every single one of them because we still haven't learned that great players don't develop in a vacuum.

It's not luck which has kept San Antonio in the playoff hunt for 20 years or transformed Golden State from a laughing stock to a model organization or allowed Indiana to draft serviceable starters with late first round picks almost every year. The environment needs to change first and that includes the fans as far as I'm concerned. There is no shortcut to a championship just like there's no shortcut to winning a basketball game. We lost this last game to Dallas the same way we've lost most of our games this season ... the players dribble around the perimeter and then fire up a three point jumper. That's about as lazy as it gets offensively. Sometimes they go in and that bails them out just enough to pretend it's working but if they want to win more than occasionally they need to start putting in the work every day, fighting for every rebound, freeing up their teammates with screens, moving without the ball. Hoping on lottery picks is the same thing as firing up those contested threes. It's lazy and it doesn't work and as long as us fans continue to act like losing is a strategy that will magically lead to winning this is exactly the team we deserve.

Here's all I'm offering as an alternative... let's see what we already have. Let's address the problems one at a time. Rebounding is a problem. Interior defense is a problem. Maybe try a bigger lineup? Maybe find some minutes for the best shot blocker on the roster even if he's raw? We're messing up too many defensive rotations or getting destroyed on mismatches. Maybe sign or trade for another wing who can guard 3s and 4s? Maybe pull players immediately when they make the same mistake twice in a row and tell them what they're doing wrong and then put them back in the game? I feel like half this roster has looked around and seen that their teammates aren't working hard and started to feel like they don't need to either. That's absolute death for any kind of a team. Working hard should be the bare minimum requirement just to earn minutes. Maybe there's no time to rebuild the entire offense mid-season but we could simplify it down to high low actions and pick and rolls and at least execute something correctly even if it's rudimentary and predictable. That's all Dallas beat us with. Can we try to develop the players we have right now instead of junking everything and pretending like things will be different next time if we just find players who will work harder?
I think those players are rarely available which is why some want to trade for Simmons. Your only other choice is draft early enough such a player can be obtained. Barnes and Wagner were two such players but we weren’t drafting early enough to nab them.
 

hrdboild

Moloch in whom I dream Angels!
Staff member
Didn’t realize this board has so many board certified Psychiatrists.

I try to stay away from mental health discussions, including any involving Fox’s off the court anguish potentially impacting his on the court play, because I know I’m not qualified to have an opinion. And this is coming from someone, who actually does have a psych background (it was a useless undergrad major) and has worked in a psych lab (though it was cog psych and not abnormal psych, which is the territory that yhall are apparently experts in).
You don't need to be a psychiatrist to have experience with depression. I would think that most people have either dealt with it themselves or know somebody who has. That doesn't make you an expert but it does qualify you to have an opinion about it.
 
The one time in the last 15 years when we truly did bottom out and finish with the worst record in the league we picked 4th. And the best player of this generation was in that draft and went 7th so we can't even blame bad luck for missing out on that opportunity. And now with the way the lottery has been restructured the team with the worst record has a 48% chance of only picking 5th overall. I understand people are unhappy with how the team is playing but tanking is not any kind of a solution because all that's going to do is give us the same type of picks we've had in abundance for the last decade and gone nowhere with. You want 5 lottery picks? I give you Marvin Bagley (#2), De'Aaron Fox (#5), Buddy Hield (#6), Harrison Barnes (#7), Davion Mitchell (#9) and I'll throw in Tyrese Haliburton (#12) as a bonus. All that talent was acquired in the draft.

Mostly I see a bunch of adults throwing temper tantrums every time the team loses, calling these players losers and then demanding that the team lose even more so we can eventually somehow field a team of not losers I guess? I can't tell anyone else how to enjoy their sports but I feel like rooting for your own team to fail is a pretty miserable way to go about it. I should know. I've spent most of the last 10 years doing it. And I understand completely why you would argue on behalf of building a team with the lottery but you know what? We've tried that over and over and over and over again. And you're going to tell me with a straight face as a Sacramento Kings fan that what we really need here are more lottery picks to fix the problem? I don't believe it. We've had a dozen plus chances to do it by now and sabotaged every single one of them. And we will go on sabotaging every single one of them because we still haven't learned that great players don't develop in a vacuum.

It's not luck which has kept San Antonio in the playoff hunt for 20 years or transformed Golden State from a laughing stock to a model organization or allowed Indiana to draft serviceable starters with late first round picks almost every year. The environment needs to change first and that includes the fans as far as I'm concerned. There is no shortcut to a championship just like there's no shortcut to winning a basketball game. We lost this last game to Dallas the same way we've lost most of our games this season ... the players dribble around the perimeter and then fire up a three point jumper. That's about as lazy as it gets offensively. Sometimes they go in and that bails them out just enough to pretend it's working but if they want to win more than occasionally they need to start putting in the work every day, fighting for every rebound, freeing up their teammates with screens, moving without the ball. Hoping on lottery picks is the same thing as firing up those contested threes. It's lazy and it doesn't work and as long as us fans continue to act like losing is a strategy that will magically lead to winning this is exactly the team we deserve.

Here's all I'm offering as an alternative... let's see what we already have. Let's address the problems one at a time. Rebounding is a problem. Interior defense is a problem. Maybe try a bigger lineup? Maybe find some minutes for the best shot blocker on the roster even if he's raw? We're messing up too many defensive rotations or getting destroyed on mismatches. Maybe sign or trade for another wing who can guard 3s and 4s? Maybe pull players immediately when they make the same mistake twice in a row and tell them what they're doing wrong and then put them back in the game? I feel like half this roster has looked around and seen that their teammates aren't working hard and started to feel like they don't need to either. That's absolute death for any kind of a team. Working hard should be the bare minimum requirement just to earn minutes. Maybe there's no time to rebuild the entire offense mid-season but we could simplify it down to high low actions and pick and rolls and at least execute something correctly even if it's rudimentary and predictable. That's all Dallas beat us with. Can we try to develop the players we have right now instead of junking everything and pretending like things will be different next time if we just find players who will work harder?
I don't want to rehash the lottery argument but it's not even debatable that the best players are picked at the top of the draft and the worst records get the best odds of picking at the top. We all know the best player could be picked 23rd but the overwhelming amount of data we have says that they're picked top 3. Anecdotal cherry picking of random players does not change this and neither does anecdotal situations where we lost out on the draft even if we had the best odds. You wouldn't choose a lottery ticket that had 40:1 odds over a ticket that had 4:1 odds so why go against that logic when it comes to the draft?

I can absolutely tell you with a straight face that more high lottery picks are what's needed to change this franchise around. They have no other way of acquiring talent. Hield's value has tanked. Fox's value is on it's way down. Barnes might be able to net you a mid to late first round pick. There's no one else on this team that has any value or that people want to attempt to trade so I don't see any alternative.

Maybe you think that they're just a tweak or two away from contending but I don't think they are at all. You could get a Robert Covington on this team but you'd have to give up something to get him and they'd be in the same position they're currently in, except maybe with an extra win in the standings. I'm all for better coaching but even Pops is struggling in San Antonio right now due to lack of talent. The Kings need a player better than Fox to be off and rolling. His metrics are awful this year and he's been the worst defender on the team. Even I'm starting to question if you can build around him. He's the best offensive player on the team and the worst defensive player. You can't lead a team like that unless you're a James Harden type but Harden is (or was in his prime) 3x the offensive player that Fox is.

A full rebuild is the only way out IMO. The Grizzlies did it with JJJ and Morant and they happened to find some good bring your lunch pail to work types of players that have worked out. They made a good free agent signing in Valanciunas and then traded him for Steven Adams, Zaire Williams and a first rounder. I don't know if they won that trade or not yet but they got a good player back, a promising young player and a first rounder. They did all that by signing a mid level free agent player. Maybe it was luck that Val improved quite a bit once he hit Memphis but the fact remains that other teams in the league win, rebuild, take their lumps, win and then rebuild and start the process over again. It's why the Kings seem to almost always have the same record while other teams become better and worse every few years.
 
I've mulled this over in my mind all season re: Fox's woes.

Along with the other discussions, could it be that Fox completely bought the "bulk up" theory on him improving his play? He busted his tail in the off season to change his body.

Then the season started and he was just a bit slower, just a bit heavier, and not where he expected to be given the effort he put forth. It was as if he betrayed himself with his (and others) advice on how to improve. Now all that off season hard work was not only a waste but a detriment to his play.

Now he is stuck in a unpleasant situation and unsuitable body of his own making. Results have been no longer smiling, no extended conversations with players, and little enthusiasm. I can see it.
I’m not saying your theory is wrong, but I’m a bit skeptical about this line of thinking.

Professional athletes have access to the very best of everything, including trainers, etc.

In this day and age, you’d think that conditioning plans would be down to a science - allowing players who rely on quickness to add muscle without diminishing their speed and agility.

Fox isn’t exactly the first NBA player to come back from the off-season a bit more “bulked up”, but he’s seemingly the only one adversely affected by it?

He reportedly added 10 pounds (?), which doesn’t seem to be excessive for his frame.

Again, not saying you’re incorrect - I’m just sharing my thoughts. Maybe a sports kinesiologist or the like will help set the matter straight.

Anyway, I think there are lots of Kings’ fans puzzled by DF’s regression this season and it’s only natural to try and look for answers.

The bigger concerns for me about De’Aaron are his lack of consistency in the areas of jump shooting and defense, along with his indifferent demeanor during pressers.

These are things that I believe have negatively affected the team, and it’s not a great look for him in the first year of his max rookie extension.

Let’s hope things get better from here in 2022.

Happy New Year!
 
I don't want to rehash the lottery argument but it's not even debatable that the best players are picked at the top of the draft and the worst records get the best odds of picking at the top. We all know the best player could be picked 23rd but the overwhelming amount of data we have says that they're picked top 3. Anecdotal cherry picking of random players does not change this and neither does anecdotal situations where we lost out on the draft even if we had the best odds. You wouldn't choose a lottery ticket that had 40:1 odds over a ticket that had 4:1 odds so why go against that logic when it comes to the draft?

I can absolutely tell you with a straight face that more high lottery picks are what's needed to change this franchise around. They have no other way of acquiring talent. Hield's value has tanked. Fox's value is on it's way down. Barnes might be able to net you a mid to late first round pick. There's no one else on this team that has any value or that people want to attempt to trade so I don't see any alternative.

Maybe you think that they're just a tweak or two away from contending but I don't think they are at all. You could get a Robert Covington on this team but you'd have to give up something to get him and they'd be in the same position they're currently in, except maybe with an extra win in the standings. I'm all for better coaching but even Pops is struggling in San Antonio right now due to lack of talent. The Kings need a player better than Fox to be off and rolling. His metrics are awful this year and he's been the worst defender on the team. Even I'm starting to question if you can build around him. He's the best offensive player on the team and the worst defensive player. You can't lead a team like that unless you're a James Harden type but Harden is (or was in his prime) 3x the offensive player that Fox is.

A full rebuild is the only way out IMO. The Grizzlies did it with JJJ and Morant and they happened to find some good bring your lunch pail to work types of players that have worked out. They made a good free agent signing in Valanciunas and then traded him for Steven Adams, Zaire Williams and a first rounder. I don't know if they won that trade or not yet but they got a good player back, a promising young player and a first rounder. They did all that by signing a mid level free agent player. Maybe it was luck that Val improved quite a bit once he hit Memphis but the fact remains that other teams in the league win, rebuild, take their lumps, win and then rebuild and start the process over again. It's why the Kings seem to almost always have the same record while other teams become better and worse every few years.
This is why the Memphis rebuild is going to be so successful. They had very little draft capital investment around Brooks, Bane, Melton, Clarke and they went and got 2 really undervalued young role players (Anderson/Tyus) that just compliment their franchise cornerstone players. The Kings have actually had reasonably strong cornerstones over the last decade (Reke, Boogie, IT2, Fox), but quite possibly have been the worst franchise in the league at continuing to build out young ascending talent around them. It's like they get a few exciting young players and just try to throw overpriced veterans around them and be "done" with developing talent.

I think that's why I appreciate Monte's approach so far because he's clearly looking to build out that secondary talent. For the first time in over a decade, we're investing heavily in younger potential upside. Metu and Jones especially are showing to be capable bench bigs, Hali a cornerstone piece and Mitchell showing starter upside. Really Woodard is the only "Monte" guy from his developmental system that hasn't shown he can be an NBA player down the line yet.
 

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Didn’t realize this board has so many board certified Psychiatrists.

I try to stay away from mental health discussions, including any involving Fox’s off the court anguish potentially impacting his on the court play, because I know I’m not qualified to have an opinion. And this is coming from someone, who actually does have a psych background (it was a useless undergrad major) and has worked in a psych lab (though it was cog psych and not abnormal psych, which is the territory that yhall are apparently experts in).
Well, you don't need to be one because his own people are the ones saying that's the reason he's sat out all year and can't (not won't, can't) play basketball. Or don't you believe him? If you don't believe him, isn't that another whole problem that should be considered?
 
Didn’t realize this board has so many board certified Psychiatrists.

I try to stay away from mental health discussions, including any involving Fox’s off the court anguish potentially impacting his on the court play, because I know I’m not qualified to have an opinion. And this is coming from someone, who actually does have a psych background (it was a useless undergrad major) and has worked in a psych lab (though it was cog psych and not abnormal psych, which is the territory that yhall are apparently experts in).
So now it's not the coaching/schedule/refs/trip to India/dealing with injury/extra weight excuses for Fox it's that he's depressed? It can never be he's just not anything more than a average starting PG (if that).
 
I agree with you . IMO people are taking the "mental health" thing overboard as in simmons is sulking in depression. IMO The guy is just embarrassed and doesn't want to play in Philly after all that has happened. I would have "mental health " issues as well if I had to face that Philly crowd.
Hilarious than some believe it