Blow It Up
- Thread starter SLAB
- Start date
Which is the more rational explanation... that the guy suddenly fell off a cliff in his age 24 season then started moping about it and acting openly hostile in his post game press conferences or that something is bothering him and this uncharacteristic behavior is a symptom of whatever that is?
I don't know what's wrong with him but I don't think "he just sucks" or "he doesn't like playing with Tyrese" adequately explain all of his behavior on and off the court since the season started. He played with Tyrese and Buddy all of last season and never looked this disengaged from the team. Players don't suddenly decline at age 24 without significant injuries.
I don't know what's wrong with him but I don't think "he just sucks" or "he doesn't like playing with Tyrese" adequately explain all of his behavior on and off the court since the season started. He played with Tyrese and Buddy all of last season and never looked this disengaged from the team. Players don't suddenly decline at age 24 without significant injuries.
I'm not sure we need blow the whole clown up! But, we definitely need to make a lot of moves and that means all the win now vets needs to go. Meaning Harrison Barnes, Buddy Hield and Richaun Holmes is traded to the highest bidder at the trade deadline. Either we get some young players or some mid-late first round picks for these players. But we need to move them for younger players (ie 24 or under) or picks.
Let the young back court of Hali, Mitchell and Fox grow together and add some young wings through trading the vets. Bagley still has some upside, so I would rather hold on to him and move Richaun at the deadline. Go all young with our moves and see how they grow together over the next couple of years. No reason to hold on to all these vets that can help a playoff team take a step forward.
Let the young back court of Hali, Mitchell and Fox grow together and add some young wings through trading the vets. Bagley still has some upside, so I would rather hold on to him and move Richaun at the deadline. Go all young with our moves and see how they grow together over the next couple of years. No reason to hold on to all these vets that can help a playoff team take a step forward.
While I’m not against trading Fox if the offer is right (JUST NO SELLING LOW BECAUSE BAD SEASON) this would actually be my preferred action. Get young guys to go with our young backcourt. Buddy Barnes and Holmes are what they are at this point all pushing 30, and that ceiling for this team has proven to suck.
Honestly, we’d also still suck without them and that also helps us long-term with the ping pong balls!
Honestly, we’d also still suck without them and that also helps us long-term with the ping pong balls!
As far as I'm concerned, Buddy and Bagley go. Period.
For Holmes and Barnes, I'd be cool with a package of one under the radar wing and a couple draft picks.
Pick one of the dynamic combo forwards with the lottery pick this year and a rebounding, rim-protecting big in the back end of the first-round with a pick you got for Barnes and/or Holmes.
(Also, don't trade to Barnes to Boston. We'd be kicking ourselves if we accepted that Nesmith/Langford deal last year, and the Celtics are for sure going to try and pry him using their potpourri of trash again).
For Holmes and Barnes, I'd be cool with a package of one under the radar wing and a couple draft picks.
Pick one of the dynamic combo forwards with the lottery pick this year and a rebounding, rim-protecting big in the back end of the first-round with a pick you got for Barnes and/or Holmes.
(Also, don't trade to Barnes to Boston. We'd be kicking ourselves if we accepted that Nesmith/Langford deal last year, and the Celtics are for sure going to try and pry him using their potpourri of trash again).
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Time for a change: Kings need to ditch playoff plans, shake up roster with Fox trade
"But if what happened in recent weeks is any sign of what could happen in the future, it could be finally time to move De’Aaron Fox and let Tyrese Haliburton become the player to build around. That move would solve a season-long issue with an unbalanced roster and set a course for the future fans could actually be excited about, rather than watching the Kings try to continue down the path they’re currently on, which would likely require Pepto Bismol to stomach.
Haliburton’s second NBA season has been frustrating. But when Fox missed four games in the NBA’s health and safety protocols, Haliburton had his best stretch of the year and showed similar promise to his outstanding rookie campaign. His scoring average for the year is just 13.2 points. But he averaged 23.5 and 11.3 assists — while hitting 50% of his 3-point attempts — working as the lead guard in Fox’s absence. The advanced metrics also favor Haliburton over Fox. According to Basketball Reference, Haliburton is ranked higher than Fox in offensive win shares, defensive wins shares and win shares per 48 minutes. Haliburton is the Kings’ leader in defensive box plus-minus and overall box plus-minus. He’s the only player on the Kings’ roster with a value over replacement player above a full game."
Read more at: https://www.sacbee.com/sports/nba/sacramento-kings/article256906472.html#storylink=cpy
"But if what happened in recent weeks is any sign of what could happen in the future, it could be finally time to move De’Aaron Fox and let Tyrese Haliburton become the player to build around. That move would solve a season-long issue with an unbalanced roster and set a course for the future fans could actually be excited about, rather than watching the Kings try to continue down the path they’re currently on, which would likely require Pepto Bismol to stomach.
Haliburton’s second NBA season has been frustrating. But when Fox missed four games in the NBA’s health and safety protocols, Haliburton had his best stretch of the year and showed similar promise to his outstanding rookie campaign. His scoring average for the year is just 13.2 points. But he averaged 23.5 and 11.3 assists — while hitting 50% of his 3-point attempts — working as the lead guard in Fox’s absence. The advanced metrics also favor Haliburton over Fox. According to Basketball Reference, Haliburton is ranked higher than Fox in offensive win shares, defensive wins shares and win shares per 48 minutes. Haliburton is the Kings’ leader in defensive box plus-minus and overall box plus-minus. He’s the only player on the Kings’ roster with a value over replacement player above a full game."
Read more at: https://www.sacbee.com/sports/nba/sacramento-kings/article256906472.html#storylink=cpy
Interesting article. Didn't need the advanced stats though. There were several of us saying Haliburton was the better PG of the two in preseason of his rookie season.
Still think Fox is the better overall talent when it's all clicking for him. There is something lacking though. Especially this season. My assumption has been that he was given the heads up that he would be traded if the right deal came along. Basketball is less fun and more business for him now.
Still think Fox is the better overall talent when it's all clicking for him. There is something lacking though. Especially this season. My assumption has been that he was given the heads up that he would be traded if the right deal came along. Basketball is less fun and more business for him now.
It's the same story over and over with terrible teams. Fans are trying to pick the guy to build around when it isn't about one player it's about the team. We know what it takes for this team to win: multiple players need to play well at the same time. If we clear Fox out so Haliburton can spread his wings so to speak, what happens when Haliburton is having a bad game? What happens when he inevitably goes through his own two month slump after he's getting max contract money? Will the fans turn on him too? We had this same argument about Artest vs. KMart then about IT vs. Tyreke. Then one of them gets traded or leaves in free agency and the team doesn't get any better. Then the other one gets traded or leaves in free agecy and we start the whole cycle over again with someone new. I'm tired of it. If a coaching staff can't get two players as talented as Fox and Haliburton to buy in to the same concept they probably shouldn't be coaching in the NBA.
I do think there is a playoff team here with some important adjustments. Fox and Haliburton work as a tag team duo the same way Lillard and McCollum do though Fox needs to figure out a way to shoot with some consistency from outside. Mitchell works as a spark plug bench guard and occasional starter who turns up the defensive intensity and ensures we win the bench minutes. Davis is inconsistent but he's shown flashes of being a good bench shooter to replace Buddy. I think Bagley and Metu work as energy bigs with stretch 4 potential. I like Jones and Queta as the C rotation -- stop messing around and get some actual size in the paint. So that leaves Buddy, Barnes, and Holmes as the pieces I'd trade and all I'm looking for is a couple of large wings who can defend and knock down spot-up shots.
I do think there is a playoff team here with some important adjustments. Fox and Haliburton work as a tag team duo the same way Lillard and McCollum do though Fox needs to figure out a way to shoot with some consistency from outside. Mitchell works as a spark plug bench guard and occasional starter who turns up the defensive intensity and ensures we win the bench minutes. Davis is inconsistent but he's shown flashes of being a good bench shooter to replace Buddy. I think Bagley and Metu work as energy bigs with stretch 4 potential. I like Jones and Queta as the C rotation -- stop messing around and get some actual size in the paint. So that leaves Buddy, Barnes, and Holmes as the pieces I'd trade and all I'm looking for is a couple of large wings who can defend and knock down spot-up shots.
It's mind-blowing Kings fans can't comprehend that talent matters above all else to win in the NBA. It's what cost us 15+ years of Luka because he couldnt "share" the ball with Fox. It's what's cost us IT, Tyreke and basically any other good Kings player in the last decade because they couldnt "share" the ball with Boogie.
Fox/Hali are easily two of the best talents the Kings have had in the last 15 years and we're lucky enough that we actually have them long-term. I think a full reset is viable since Fox absolutely gets you the most value in return, but like you said, just reworking the core around them could be the answer here.
Fox/Hali are easily two of the best talents the Kings have had in the last 15 years and we're lucky enough that we actually have them long-term. I think a full reset is viable since Fox absolutely gets you the most value in return, but like you said, just reworking the core around them could be the answer here.
That article is picking one player over another for sure.
When I look at the situation though, the best way to get the necessary missing pieces is through trade. The best trade assets a team has are the players they least want to trade. That being said, Fox can bring the most back. Losing him is acceptable simply because of the glut of guard talent the team already has.
If the Kings can package Fox to get a player like J Brown, as the rumors swirl about this scenario, then it's a no brainer.
It wouldn't be picking Haliburton over Fox. It's a matter of having to give up something valuable in order to get something of value in return.
When I look at the situation though, the best way to get the necessary missing pieces is through trade. The best trade assets a team has are the players they least want to trade. That being said, Fox can bring the most back. Losing him is acceptable simply because of the glut of guard talent the team already has.
If the Kings can package Fox to get a player like J Brown, as the rumors swirl about this scenario, then it's a no brainer.
It wouldn't be picking Haliburton over Fox. It's a matter of having to give up something valuable in order to get something of value in return.
I don't think they're a few tweaks away from contending. Bagley, Metu, Jones and Queta would be the worst frontcourt in the league by a landslide.
I agree that the point is to acquire talent but they consistently make the same mistake where they don't acquire enough talent and then try to make a run at it for 3-4 years with subpar talent and band aid veteran acquisitions.
They can't just let the team be bad so they can acquire more talent through the draft. Just allowing them to be bad last year could have easily gotten them into the Raptors position to select Scottie Barnes. Instead, they played the best players big minutes and continued to push for victories against basement dwelling teams when the playoffs were out of the question.
Smart teams let themselves lose when they aren't good and then make moves when they are sure they have the talent. The Kings do neither. They win when winning is detrimental to the franchise and then make moves well before they are sure they have enough talent to win. We're in the exact same situation as the Cousins era. We've got some good players, but not enough, and ride them to late lottery picks. Then load up on a new end of the bench rotational player cast and have another run at the late lottery because they never gave themselves a chance to draft a Mobley or Barnes. People will say they had a chance when they drafted Bagley. Ok well that didn't work out so do what you need to do to put yourself in that situation again so you have a chance at it this time.
I agree that the point is to acquire talent but they consistently make the same mistake where they don't acquire enough talent and then try to make a run at it for 3-4 years with subpar talent and band aid veteran acquisitions.
They can't just let the team be bad so they can acquire more talent through the draft. Just allowing them to be bad last year could have easily gotten them into the Raptors position to select Scottie Barnes. Instead, they played the best players big minutes and continued to push for victories against basement dwelling teams when the playoffs were out of the question.
Smart teams let themselves lose when they aren't good and then make moves when they are sure they have the talent. The Kings do neither. They win when winning is detrimental to the franchise and then make moves well before they are sure they have enough talent to win. We're in the exact same situation as the Cousins era. We've got some good players, but not enough, and ride them to late lottery picks. Then load up on a new end of the bench rotational player cast and have another run at the late lottery because they never gave themselves a chance to draft a Mobley or Barnes. People will say they had a chance when they drafted Bagley. Ok well that didn't work out so do what you need to do to put yourself in that situation again so you have a chance at it this time.
It's been over 6 months since Philly threw him under the bus after the playoffs. We're heading into half a season of wasted value with him sitting out with a core that's built to win in a 2-3 year window. So what's his timeline for getting traded?
Regardless, you're avoiding the question, because you know Simmons doesn't have trade value right now. And it'd be dumb to flip Fox for him
Regardless, you're avoiding the question, because you know Simmons doesn't have trade value right now. And it'd be dumb to flip Fox for him