Fire Walton

[SacTownKid]

I’d be down to see what Bobby can do as an interim coach, but not necessarily to run out the year, unless he really proves himself.

I’d take D’Antoni. I think he’d make Fox look like a superstar…

… Well, last season’s version of Fox…

This organization has started another dumpster fire, I can't see a major name stepping up to grab this bull by the horns. The time to do that would have been in the summer. They instead decided to run it back, even after openly dangling guys, and now Monte is paying that price full on. You have distrust running rampant through this locker room. Buddy, Bagley, etc. Bringing in someone that has history with these players and has already developed one with the young players you might be going to if a rebuild is necessary is a HUGE advantage. The Kings have already been planting seeds that Bagley getting sandbagged (pun intended) is on Walton. This creates the potential of mending that relationship as well.

 

[Kingster]

Worst case then Monte needs to intervene. This isn't a perfect roster build wise for sure and too many mouths is a problem if players create that problem. And it will be a problem if they don't win regardless. Bobby isn't a fresh fish either. He's never gotten a lead job but he's been working his way up for darn near a decade already.

Continuing with the cooking metaphor, it always seems like this team gets the leftovers, and the thing about leftovers is that eating them can be a very risky proposition (as I can attest!). To my mind, this team needs a coach who has instant credibility with the fans, and more importantly, the players. Therefore, I think he must have NBA head coaching experience. Who would that be? I have no idea. That's why McNair is getting paid the big bucks.

 

[Albatros]

Bobby has proven players play hard for him and win (summer league and a limited sample size in g league). If the problem is all coaching then we will see results. If its the players then we have an issue. I think the Kinga need to decide see which one is the problem and make a decision. I wouldn't change both immediately bc now you have two different variables. Pick the problem. Make the change and re assess.

How many more times do we need to hire someone from the 02 team to realise that just because they were good players doesn't mean they can coach, or be an executive, or do anything other than play well 20 years ago.

 

[Kingster]

How many more times do we need to hire someone from the 02 team to realise that just because they were good players doesn't mean they can coach, or be an executive, or do anything other than play well 20 years ago.

Agreed. It doesn't necessarily mean they can't do it, but it doesn't mean they can do it either. The knee-jerk to have B. Jackson or Christie or whatever ex-King you can come up with makes me nervous.

 

[SacTownKid]

Continuing with the cooking metaphor, it always seems like this team gets the leftovers, and the thing about leftovers is that eating them can be a very risky proposition (as I can attest!). To my mind, this team needs a coach who has instant credibility with the fans, and more importantly, the players. Therefore, I think he must have NBA head coaching experience. Who would that be? I have no idea. That's why McNair is getting paid the big bucks.

Vivek has no credibility with the fans at this point so I don't think they can afford to look at it that way. This organization as a whole has no cred and rightfully so. They deserve every bit of the mud slinging coming their way. They need to understand the position they are in, and look through history and what most teams have done or do in a similar position. Like I said, I can't see a name coach taking over without at the very least having a major say in team construction. Otherwise you are going to get another George Karl situation. In the end he was actually right. He knew full well where the league was heading and his first order and demand was to get Cuz out of the picture. At the time that was a heck no because this franchise goofed around for years before getting a talent of that level. In the end Vlade blew it and waited too long to choose to the point that the bad vibes were so predominant that it was not fixable and lost both in the end. A HOF coach and potentially a HOF player (nobody could have predicted Cuz falling apart at that time unless Vlade did have some heads up from Cuz's medial evaluations). One thing going for Bobby is he at least has a connection WITH the fans. I'm saying Bobby is a good stop gap in a worst case as well. Hiring a major money, name coach that still can't get this team to work is a major gamble that is probably not worth it for Vivek at this point. I think Bobby did enough so far, and in summer league to give you hope of a gamble like that paying off since honestly, the expectations are also going to be somewhat lower. So if they do better than expected the payoff is much greater. To me, it's a much better and safer bet going with an already dialed in coach like Bobby.

Karl coming in was an anomaly. Hiring long term, name coaches in the middle of the season that weren't already within your organization in some capacity is rare, and if you don't give them the ability to augment the team is apparently not going to work either, haha. If they do go with a name coach, then that name coach has to to be either able to make those changes starting from this deadline on, or he needs to run a system that fits the team you have already. I do think D'Antoni could be able to work with many of these players but I would expect him to certainly look at moving this G/PF/C depth to the wing, which is a big ask since good wings aren't being given out in trade by other teams right now. Then you get into the idea of whether he's at a point in his career where HE as a coach is even worth banking on. He hasn't protected himself as well as he could have and looking a little bumbling in NY and with the Rockets at times was damaging.

 

[SacTownKid]

How many more times do we need to hire someone from the 02 team to realise that just because they were good players doesn't mean they can coach, or be an executive, or do anything other than play well 20 years ago.

Did you watch summer league? Have you seen practice footage over the last few seasons of Bobby tracking down shots and instructing some of these exact players? I know it was just summer league but Bobby has been working his tail off for years now. And in this organization under more than just one regime. This isn't a Vlade situation where Vlade literally had ZERO experience in the front office world of the NBA. You can't let other things that didn't work for you hinder you from making moves that might. With where this team is at, you historically make the safe bet. Go with a coach your current players know, one with upside (he showed it in summer league by instituting his own system BTW and developing young talent), that also won't come at a huge price tag. This is another situation where perhaps the easy path is right there in front of Vivek. Will he see it? Or will he continue to stumble around until yet another huckster comes along selling him on a load of BS?

 

[SacTownKid]

Also, lets say Fox never comes back from this slump. This teams tops out at 20th best or whatever. What better situation could you ask for as you go on your path of self destruction to cap cutting, pick piling, and L stacking then having a player development crew of Bobby Jackson, Rico Hines, and Doug Christie at the center of your coaching core? I mean c'mon. Bring on the youth! If it does work out and Fox/Barnes can carry this team to the playoffs all the better. It's a win win right there.

 

[Folsomkingsfan]

Did you watch summer league? Have you seen practice footage over the last few seasons of Bobby tracking down shots and instructing some of these exact players? I know it was just summer league but Bobby has been working his tail off for years now. And in this organization under more than just one regime. This isn't a Vlade situation where Vlade literally had ZERO experience in the front office world of the NBA. You can't let other things that didn't work for you hinder you from making moves that might. With where this team is at, you historically make the safe bet. Go with a coach your current players know, one with upside (he showed it in summer league by instituting his own system BTW and developing young talent), that also won't come at a huge price tag. This is another situation where perhaps the easy path is right there in front of Vivek. Will he see it? Or will he continue to stumble around until yet another huckster comes along selling him on a load of BS?

I love Bobby, but I would pass on him personally. I'm sure he has a great basketball iq by this point, but this team needs more than just a X and O guy. They need a motivator and someone that is going to get in the players face and keep them accountable. This team lacks leadership in the worst way. We don't get any from our franchise player. We certainly don't get any from our current head coach. That's why we can never hang on to a lead. When things start to go south everyone just sits around and mopes. Walton tries to draw up some plays, but they don't do anything and we wind up losing. Every team needs a leader to win in this league. If your team doesn't have a LeBron to do it, it needs the coach to step up. Bobby Jackson just doesn't seem like that guy.

 

[Spike]

I love Bobby, but I would pass on him personally. I'm sure he has a great basketball iq by this point, but this team needs more than just a X and O guy. They need a motivator and someone that is going to get in the players face and keep them accountable. This team lacks leadership in the worst way. We don't get any from our franchise player. We certainly don't get any from our current head coach. That's why we can never hang on to a lead. When things start to go south everyone just sits around and mopes. Walton tries to draw up some plays, but they don't do anything and we wind up losing. Every team needs a leader to win in this league. If your team doesn't have a LeBron to do it, it needs the coach to step up. Bobby Jackson just doesn't seem like that guy.

I think those reasons are precisely why Bobby (although I have reservations) would be a good coach. He oozes leadership and accountability.

 

[Geoff]

If this team had been coached by Kenny Natt and Reggie Theus, then they can give Bobby Jackson a shot to right the ship.

 

[dude12]

I love Bobby, but I would pass on him personally. I'm sure he has a great basketball iq by this point, but this team needs more than just a X and O guy. They need a motivator and someone that is going to get in the players face and keep them accountable. This team lacks leadership in the worst way. We don't get any from our franchise player. We certainly don't get any from our current head coach. That's why we can never hang on to a lead. When things start to go south everyone just sits around and mopes. Walton tries to draw up some plays, but they don't do anything and we wind up losing. Every team needs a leader to win in this league. If your team doesn't have a LeBron to do it, it needs the coach to step up. Bobby Jackson just doesn't seem like that guy.

I actually thought Bobby was no-nonsense during the summer league when our guys weren’t playing hard enough on defense. Had complete buy in from the team. Now, one can say it’s because all of those guys are trying to make a name for themselves and therefore they will give max effort no matter what. But to hedge, I fire Walton, name Bobby the interim coach, keep the remainder of the staff and basically tell Bobby to prove it. If it’s not good enough they hire someone in the off-season.

 

[Sam0ah]

I actually thought Bobby was no-nonsense during the summer league when our guys weren’t playing hard enough on defense. Had complete buy in from the team. Now, one can say it’s because all of those guys are trying to make a name for themselves and therefore they will give max effort no matter what. But to hedge, I fire Walton, name Bobby the interim coach, keep the remainder of the staff and basically tell Bobby to prove it. If it’s not good enough they hire someone in the off-season.

I am totally for that. Bobby would be the easy choice for me too.

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

Bobby Jackson. Perfect low cost guy in case they do have rebuild, and in the interim he has a history with THESE players, and has a history on the development side. Also, in summer league he did run Waltons systems on both ends early but then ditched them to run the things that got them the title. He pressured the ball on defense and ran a spread pick and roll offense. Things this current group should also be focusing on.

Good to hear that BJacks is doing a good job. I never envisioned him in a head coaching spot, even at the D-League level. I loved him and Christie as players. Maybe they'll be good coach's

 

[kb02]

Wouldn’t surprise me one bit if Bobby J is the next coach. See below from June:

kb02
Starter
Jun 5, 2021#16
If Walton under performs next year, Bobby is the next head coach

https://community.kingsfans.com/threads/bobby-jackson-named-head-coach-of-the-stockton-kings.79814/

 

[luckytkp]

I know people have been bashing Bagley, but Walton should take as much blame if not more. One of his jobs was to develop the young core we had(buddy, fox and bagley). Are they better than 3 years ago? I dont think so.

 

[Chupacabra]

Wouldn’t surprise me one bit if Bobby J is the next coach. See below from June:

kb02
Starter
Jun 5, 2021#16
If Walton under performs next year, Bobby is the next head coach

https://community.kingsfans.com/threads/bobby-jackson-named-head-coach-of-the-stockton-kings.79814/

Next year? I have a feeling that Walton is gone if he doesn't right the ship really quickly. If he stinks it up for another 10-20 games I would imagine he is out of here.

 

[EIM86]

Did you watch summer league? Have you seen practice footage over the last few seasons of Bobby tracking down shots and instructing some of these exact players? I know it was just summer league but Bobby has been working his tail off for years now. And in this organization under more than just one regime. This isn't a Vlade situation where Vlade literally had ZERO experience in the front office world of the NBA. You can't let other things that didn't work for you hinder you from making moves that might. With where this team is at, you historically make the safe bet. Go with a coach your current players know, one with upside (he showed it in summer league by instituting his own system BTW and developing young talent), that also won't come at a huge price tag. This is another situation where perhaps the easy path is right there in front of Vivek. Will he see it? Or will he continue to stumble around until yet another huckster comes along selling him on a load of BS?

yah to put it simple, B Jax has paid his dues in the coaching world

 

[kb02]

Next year? I have a feeling that Walton is gone if he doesn't right the ship really quickly. If he stinks it up for another 10-20 games I would imagine he is out of here.

June 2021. Next year is now.

 

[miltonap]

I never thought anything of Bobby, I thought he was always kind of a wallflower, and was surprised to see him stick around through so many regime changes.

That being said, the summer league team this year was TOUGH and no nonsense. Bobby J as a player was tough as well.

Let's not forget they whooped the Celtics ass in that championship game. Straight up embarrassed them. They didn't get scared, they didn't hesitate when they took the lead, they straight up smoked them, and kept sticking the knife deeper and deeper.

I think a certain part of that if not a big part of that could be attributed to Bobby J, and possibly Doug.

If nothing else the man is tough, but honestly I saw a competent kings team this summer as well.

There was a reason I was so excited about Davion Mitchell, and that was the toughness he would bring to the team, something I felt this team so desperately needed.

I haven't watched the last few games, but perhaps the team still isn't tough enough.

I always felt that was a major problem with the kings, just not mentally strong enough. Not enough get in your face and not enough accountability.

What's the worst that could happen if they replace Walton with Bobby J ?

It's not like it would cost much, and if anything Bobby J would make the team tougher from the get go. Experience with players already as well.

Would his X/O's be much worse than Waltons ? Summer league told me he was pretty competent.

If respect is already being lost in the locker room, the time to make this change is now.

The season is still young and I feel like it would be a relatively smooth transaction. No risk either of a big name head coach butting heads with the GM because their visions don't align. That would be a disaster I feel.

Bobby would probably just be asked to give it his best shot. I'm sure Doug and him would be able to get it done.

 

[Padrino]

How many more times do we need to hire someone from the 02 team to realise that just because they were good players doesn't mean they can coach, or be an executive, or do anything other than play well 20 years ago.

Yeah... I have to admit to a certain amount of eye-rolling every time Kings fans suggest replacing Walton with some ex-King or another. Even if Bobby Jackson or Doug Christie are destined for eventual head coaching careers in the NBA, the franchise really needs to stop thinking so small and move beyond their own backyard with major personnel hires.

I mean, we're approaching the twenty-year anniversary of the Kings' sole Western Conference Finals appearance. Twenty years! Like so many, I have fond memories of the '01-'02 team, but I'd rather stop reminiscing about the "Golden Age" of Sacramento Kings basketball and watch the franchise take seriously its maturation into a new era. Spanning two ownership groups, it's been nothing but half-measures and duct tape since Rick Adelman was released a decade-and-a-half ago. Where is all that innovative thinking that Vivek was supposed to bring with him from Silicon Valley? Why should the Kings keep reaching into the past in search of answers? Let's take steps forward instead, shall we?

I say Monte McNair should fire Luke Walton tomorrow, name Alvin Gentry the interim head coach, set the Kings loose to running and recapturing a bit of bounce and fun in their play no matter the losses, and get to work balancing the damn roster while conducting a proper search for a permanent head coach. No legacy hires. No bidding against themselves over the first shiny candidate who comes along. Just a serious, professional pursuit of the best individual for the job.

 

[206Fan]

Please.... NO to Bobby Jackson. The franchise needs to stop glorifying 2002. Hiring Jackson is Vlade all over again. What a mess this entire franchise is. Luke needs to be gone.

There are a lot less talented teams with much better records than us. How are the Cavs 9-5 right now? Has anyone seen their roster?

Luke needs to be gone, but this team probably operates at a loss every year due to the horrific product we put out every year. Should've never fired Joerger.

I'm willing to give Monte more time, but we need new coaches. Luke Walton is horrible.

 

[Albatros]

Did you watch summer league? Have you seen practice footage over the last few seasons of Bobby tracking down shots and instructing some of these exact players? I know it was just summer league but Bobby has been working his tail off for years now. And in this organization under more than just one regime. This isn't a Vlade situation where Vlade literally had ZERO experience in the front office world of the NBA. You can't let other things that didn't work for you hinder you from making moves that might. With where this team is at, you historically make the safe bet. Go with a coach your current players know, one with upside (he showed it in summer league by instituting his own system BTW and developing young talent), that also won't come at a huge price tag. This is another situation where perhaps the easy path is right there in front of Vivek. Will he see it? Or will he continue to stumble around until yet another huckster comes along selling him on a load of BS?

Maybe you know Bobby better than me. Fair enough. But summer league and a few clips on YouTube of him coaching does not make him an NBA head coach.

That said he is the cheapest possible option so I'm sure Vivek is licking his lips.

Another fan favourite who he can hide his own faliure behind.

 

[reptilexcq2]

I see owner Vivek being stingy every year is a big problem. How come nobody talk about that? Look at who they brought in every year in free agency? Look at how active they are during free agency? Other teams keep getting upgrades...Kings remain relatively the same talent wise. How is Jazz able to get Conley, how is Bulls able to get DeRozin and Ball. It seems to me owner are satisfied and is unwilling to invest big. You reap what you sow.

You would think after so many Playoffs drought , they would have acquired so much young talents by now. Yes, even deep in the bench....but the Kings bench are weak. With the exception of Mitchell, it is pretty thin.

Also, I want to say...the coaching style is not built to win. They play a loose scripted predictable basketball style of offense that doesn't caught anybody off guard. Their defense lack teamwork and coordination and more often rely and pray on the other team to miss or have an off night for them to win. You can say they lack talents, but I say it's a combination of coaching, discipline, teamwork before talents. If a coach is not able to harness a player talents to its maximum, then it's the coach fault. If a team can constantly do just a simple pick n roll over Fox for a layup or j shot, that's lack of coaching.

 

[jcassio]

Count me as on the bandwagon to fire Walton. I’m also not interested in giving Bagley a chance with a different coach. His time here is up as soon as someone offers something better than a late 2nd round pick. But Fox? I want to say that I still believe in him, but I’m losing patience. Only after the OKC loss have I begun to see a way forward without Fox and with Simmons.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

The organization has invested in Bobby and he's had some good results - would it be all that disruptive/terrible a long term thing to dump Walton and make Bobby the interim? I would actually like that more than Gentry or Doug, you can leave them in place for some consistency, see what you have in Bobby, and if it doesn't translate you still look for the long term guy but if it does you remove the (I) tag?

I'm coming around to this as the way forward.

 

[The_Jamal]

Please.... NO to Bobby Jackson. The franchise needs to stop glorifying 2002. Hiring Jackson is Vlade all over again. What a mess this entire franchise is. Luke needs to be gone.

There are a lot less talented teams with much better records than us. How are the Cavs 9-5 right now? Has anyone seen their roster?

Luke needs to be gone, but this team probably operates at a loss every year due to the horrific product we put out every year. Should've never fired Joerger.

I'm willing to give Monte more time, but we need new coaches. Luke Walton is horrible.

The difference with Bobby is he, unlike Vlade, has actually been on the sideline, working his way up since 2013 as an ast/player developmental coach. So it's not just a "good ol boys" hire like when Vlade grabbed Peja to be one of his main FO assistants.

Count me in for firing Walton, letting Gentry finish out the year and then if Bobby wins the job in the off-season after an actual coaching search, so be it.

 

[Kingster]

Vivek has no credibility with the fans at this point so I don't think they can afford to look at it that way. This organization as a whole has no cred and rightfully so. They deserve every bit of the mud slinging coming their way. They need to understand the position they are in, and look through history and what most teams have done or do in a similar position. Like I said, I can't see a name coach taking over without at the very least having a major say in team construction. Otherwise you are going to get another George Karl situation. In the end he was actually right. He knew full well where the league was heading and his first order and demand was to get Cuz out of the picture. At the time that was a heck no because this franchise goofed around for years before getting a talent of that level. In the end Vlade blew it and waited too long to choose to the point that the bad vibes were so predominant that it was not fixable and lost both in the end. A HOF coach and potentially a HOF player (nobody could have predicted Cuz falling apart at that time unless Vlade did have some heads up from Cuz's medial evaluations). One thing going for Bobby is he at least has a connection WITH the fans. I'm saying Bobby is a good stop gap in a worst case as well. Hiring a major money, name coach that still can't get this team to work is a major gamble that is probably not worth it for Vivek at this point. I think Bobby did enough so far, and in summer league to give you hope of a gamble like that paying off since honestly, the expectations are also going to be somewhat lower. So if they do better than expected the payoff is much greater. To me, it's a much better and safer bet going with an already dialed in coach like Bobby.

Karl coming in was an anomaly. Hiring long term, name coaches in the middle of the season that weren't already within your organization in some capacity is rare, and if you don't give them the ability to augment the team is apparently not going to work either, haha. If they do go with a name coach, then that name coach has to to be either able to make those changes starting from this deadline on, or he needs to run a system that fits the team you have already. I do think D'Antoni could be able to work with many of these players but I would expect him to certainly look at moving this G/PF/C depth to the wing, which is a big ask since good wings aren't being given out in trade by other teams right now. Then you get into the idea of whether he's at a point in his career where HE as a coach is even worth banking on. He hasn't protected himself as well as he could have and looking a little bumbling in NY and with the Rockets at times was damaging.

Going back in history, the Kings needed a young Karl, not a Karl that had been weakened by cancer. He was pretty frail when he took the job, and this is not a job for the physically impaired. If Karl had been younger and backed by a strong management, it probably would have been great after the dust had cleared. D'Antoni is just an appeaser as far as I am concerned, and that's the last thing this team needs. We already have that with Walton. He exudes weakness, even in his language - uhm, uhm, uhm......and more uhm. Does that teenage speak affect make you want to follow him, come hell or high water?!! Are you ready, as a player, to do the dirty work that needs to be done in order to win, after hearing, "Uhm, uhm, uhm I'd really like you to actually make a screen, uhm, that you don't slip every single time?! It's so indecisive it makes my skin crawl. So I'd really like someone who can speak and teach incisively, cogently, persuasively, and commandingly. Is that Bobby Jackson? LOL. Don't get me wrong. Being able to speak is not the be all end all of necessary coaching attributes, but it's at least one of the attributes that I'd be looking for.

 

[Woot!]

The organization has invested in Bobby and he's had some good results - would it be all that disruptive/terrible a long term thing to dump Walton and make Bobby the interim? I would actually like that more than Gentry or Doug, you can leave them in place for some consistency, see what you have in Bobby, and if it doesn't translate you still look for the long term guy but if it does you remove the (I) tag?

I'm coming around to this as the way forward.

I don't know anything about Bobby J's merits as a prospective head coach beyond what's been said on this board, but this take makes sense to me.

On the merits, Walton should never have been allowed back, and, on the merits, he definitely doesn't deserve to coach another game. I'm all for conducting a thorough search and getting "the best person for the job," but mid-season isn't the time to conduct such a search. Which leaves you with guys like Jackson and Gentry. Give one of 'em an almost 70-game runway to prove themselves, then hire your *savior* in the offseason if you don't like the results of that tryout.

Gentry doesn't excite me at all. Jackson at least is a relative ??? who got his guys to buy into defense-first.

 

[HndsmCelt]

My thoughts on bringing in Bobby Jackson are that he has just started his first season as head coach in Stockton and is off to s solid start, let him finish the job. Firing Walton now means one of two things. Either packing it in early, developing players and positioning for acquiring talent in the off season OR trusting in the team as assembled and bringing in a coach to take them to the play offs. In the first case there is no harm in letting Gentry take the helm for the rest of the season and interviewing for the job in the off season, but if Monte thinks tis team can make the play offs then he ahs to look for an experienced coach with play off experience. Maybe that is still Gentry, maybe it is D'Antoni, hell maybe you grab a lose Van Gundy, but in either case it's not Bobby and more importantly Bobby deserves the chance to finish what he started and make his bones as a head coach before setting him up to fail.

 

[miltonap]

I just don't think this team is that poor to have to pack it in and rebuild. I think this is a leadership issue.

The problem with bringing in a seasoned head coach is that that should take time. The seasoned head coach and the GM need to be on the same page and I just don't think it would be realistic to do that now.

So in my opinion the options are either Gentry or Jackson right now. Gentry doesn't impress me at all. Didn't all his teams suck, Bobby J has at least shown that he values defense, and he was also a very tough player, I'm sure he would demand the same from his players. The players need a tough coach for sure.

And if Bobby doesn't work out, then do your proper search in the off-season