To tank or not?

[pdxKingsFan]

I think Bjelica would warrant a late first from a team in the top 4 of either conference (so thinking a 26-30 pick). Or he could be packaged with Cojo to get 20m off a team's books for next year. That is probably also worth a bottom 10 of the first round type pick for the right team, especially if those players would have a small role on a playoff team.

 

[The_Jamal]

I agree with that and they obviously shouldn't be trading away Barnes or Hield for pennies, but guys like CoJo and Bjelica aren't going to fetch much other than a 2nd rounder. If their minutes can be replaced by the young players or at least some of their minutes if they're still on the roster, that would help at least somewhat with the tank while developing at the same time.

Problem is that Walton isn't here to tank, so McNair has to force it through roster moves. It's yet another Kangz move by having a coach fighting for his coaching career during a rebuild year with a lot of vets on the roster and an upcoming draft with a lot of talent at the top. Everyone has different agendas and they're all conflicting, which makes it more difficult to build a talented team in the future.

Yeah, agree here for sure. Can add Whiteside to that list. Think it would be a mistake from McNair if any of those dudes are on the team post trade deadline (trade or buy-out)

 

[Capt. Factorial]

I think Bjelica would warrant a late first from a team in the top 4 of either conference (so thinking a 26-30 pick). Or he could be packaged with Cojo to get 20m off a team's books for next year. That is probably also worth a bottom 10 of the first round type pick for the right team, especially if those players would have a small role on a playoff team.

I guess I don't know all the machinations in the front office, but the instant somebody offers me a 26-30 pick for Bjelica in a deal where I don't have to eat significant salary in future years, he's out the door. Thanks, Bjeli, it's been great, here's a nice trip to a contender, and I hope you win the championship.

There's just a lot of value in having a young player locked up for four years, and this is a draft where I'm pretty sure I can find a rotation player in that range (or better, particularly if the hilariously bad mocks of Isaiah Todd actually represent front office evaluations).

 

[pdxKingsFan]

I guess I don't know all the machinations in the front office, but the instant somebody offers me a 26-30 pick for Bjelica in a deal where I don't have to eat significant salary in future years, he's out the door. Thanks, Bjeli, it's been great, here's a nice trip to a contender, and I hope you win the championship.

There's just a lot of value in having a young player locked up for four years, and this is a draft where I'm pretty sure I can find a rotation player in that range (or better, particularly if the hilariously bad mocks of Isaiah Todd actually represent front office evaluations).

We'd probably have to take salary back but I see him as someone who can contribute on a playoff team that is thin up front. He's relatively cheap though so odds are we'd send him with CoJo and take more back than we'd like for an additional 2 seasons.

 

[LPKingsFan]

I’d guess Bjelica would have been traded already if a team put a first rounder on the table. I wonder if some teams are looking to Tucker first, and are waiting to make their best Bjelica offer until they’ve already missed out on other options. Same with Whiteside—he could be good fall back for a team that misses out on a Drummond buy out, but a few dominoes need to fall before a team makes their best offer for him. You need the deadline to force teams to move, and we’re still a little ways away.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

It was said that nobody puts their best deal until the deadline. I think the fact that we are still almost 2 weeks out but the deadline talk has been going on pretty heavy for 3 weeks now has made for one LONG news cycle.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

We'd probably have to take salary back but I see him as someone who can contribute on a playoff team that is thin up front. He's relatively cheap though so odds are we'd send him with CoJo and take more back than we'd like for an additional 2 seasons.

Well, I don't know if I'm wholly on board with sending Bjeli/CoJo out to save money this year. I don't know what that gets us. We're basically on the hook for 50% of their salary (the remainder of the year) which is a bit short of $10M, and then $2.4M for CoJo's buyout. So we can basically eat $12M by this summer and be done with it (though the $2.4M would go on next year's cap, wouldn't expect that to be a real killer). I don't have a lot of desire to stretch that out into say, $5M each of the next two years for a player that isn't going to play. "Just take your lumps" is where I'm at on that.

So if we find a taker for Bjeli, or somewhat less likely Cojo, and we are getting a 2nd in return, I don't want salary next year. A 2nd and a dead contract (or perhaps we trade them into a trade exception) for a player who can help your team this year in the playoffs seems fair.

If we're getting a first in return, then that's where I'd expect to potentially have to eat some salary coming back. My stomach for eating that salary would probably depend on how good the pick is, naturally.

But if we're going to trade these guys as sort of a pseudo-stretch provision, I'm not really down with that. Just arrange a buyout or let them finish out the season if it comes to that.

 

[SacTownKid]

Amick said they're doing a "soft" tank. Which is par for the Kangz course. Soft tank and cross your fingers that an all star is sitting there at 8 while the smart teams tank and up their odds of landing the all stars in the top 5.

Ah yes, the purgatory method. This franchise knows it well.

 

[SacTownKid]

I’d guess Bjelica would have been traded already if a team put a first rounder on the table. I wonder if some teams are looking to Tucker first, and are waiting to make their best Bjelica offer until they’ve already missed out on other options. Same with Whiteside—he could be good fall back for a team that misses out on a Drummond buy out, but a few dominoes need to fall before a team makes their best offer for him. You need the deadline to force teams to move, and we’re still a little ways away.

Teams aren't stupid, they'll wait for a buyout unless there is more than 1 team that really wants him or the Kings want to take on salary in the process.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Well, I don't know if I'm wholly on board with sending Bjeli/CoJo out to save money this year. I don't know what that gets us. We're basically on the hook for 50% of their salary (the remainder of the year) which is a bit short of $10M, and then $2.4M for CoJo's buyout. So we can basically eat $12M by this summer and be done with it (though the $2.4M would go on next year's cap, wouldn't expect that to be a real killer). I don't have a lot of desire to stretch that out into say, $5M each of the next two years for a player that isn't going to play. "Just take your lumps" is where I'm at on that.

So if we find a taker for Bjeli, or somewhat less likely Cojo, and we are getting a 2nd in return, I don't want salary next year. A 2nd and a dead contract (or perhaps we trade them into a trade exception) for a player who can help your team this year in the playoffs seems fair.

If we're getting a first in return, then that's where I'd expect to potentially have to eat some salary coming back. My stomach for eating that salary would probably depend on how good the pick is, naturally.

But if we're going to trade these guys as sort of a pseudo-stretch provision, I'm not really down with that. Just arrange a buyout or let them finish out the season if it comes to that.

Save money? I'm not on board. I was thinking we'd package them for a deal with some time on it and get a pick for our troubles.

I do wonder if part of the reason we haven't moved Bjeli is because he would be a secondary part of any deal with the Celtics or Sixers for Barnes or Buddy.

I think CoJo most likely stays here and we decline his contract to make room for Holmes next season. But he could be moved as part of a salary matching scheme.

 

[sactowndog]

In the case of the Rockets, Gordon has a 4-6 week out mild groin strain and Tucker is sitting out because he “wants” to be traded. Rockets into full on tank.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

In the case of the Rockets, Gordon has a 4-6 week out mild groin strain and Tucker is sitting out because he “wants” to be traded. Rockets into full on tank.

The Thunder have the right to swap with the Rockets unless Houston gets a top 4 pick so they are a lot more desperate to protect their pick this season I am sure. In that event they would wind up with Miami's pick most likely.

 

[iowamcnabb]

Amick said they're doing a "soft" tank. Which is par for the Kangz course. Soft tank and cross your fingers that an all star is sitting there at 8 while the smart teams tank and up their odds of landing the all stars in the top 5.

Who are the smart teams tanking this year though? Minnesota just sucks. Detroit is actively tanking. I don’t think Cleveland or Orlando is. Okc gets all the praise but they have more Lins than we do.

Im also curious what a soft rebuild is according to Amick. Does that mean trading one or two players and keeping the rest?

I’m on the tank train but I think it’s harder to do than people think. We can’t be as bad as Detroit, Minnesota Or Houston. They are just a whole other level of awful. Orlando has been devastated by injuries. Cleveland has a low talent roster. I’d say just having Fox and Haliburton keeps us out of the top five. We basically just have to hope to stay 6-7 and get a lucky bump.

 

[sactowndog]

Who are the smart teams tanking this year though? Minnesota just sucks. Detroit is actively tanking. I don’t think Cleveland or Orlando is. Okc gets all the praise but they have more Lins than we do.

Im also curious what a soft rebuild is according to Amick. Does that mean trading one or two players and keeping the rest?

I’m on the tank train but I think it’s harder to do than people think. We can’t be as bad as Detroit, Minnesota Or Houston. They are just a whole other level of awful. Orlando has been devastated by injuries. Cleveland has a low talent roster. I’d say just having Fox and Haliburton keeps us out of the top five. We basically just have to hope to stay 6-7 and get a lucky bump.

with the way the lotto odds are you don’t need to be 1 but big difference between 5 and 9

 

[Gguod]

I’m on the tank train but I think it’s harder to do than people think. We can’t be as bad as Detroit, Minnesota Or Houston. They are just a whole other level of awful. Orlando has been devastated by injuries. Cleveland has a low talent roster. I’d say just having Fox and Haliburton keeps us out of the top five. We basically just have to hope to stay 6-7 and get a lucky bump.

If you do few simple things it will have some effect:

-Cut vets like Bjelica, Joseph, Whiteside out of the rotation
-Dont play Fox, Barnes, Holmes and Hield +38minutes a game
-Expand your rotation to at least 10 players

Also rest guys with nagging injuries. Doing those things can turn some of those close wins against tanking teams to close L's. The way our rotations are now will absolutely force us out of top 5. Anyone can ask themselves wether its worth it if we do it by playing tight rotations favouring vets and playing our starters Thibs level big minutes.

 

[iowamcnabb]

with the way the lotto odds are you don’t need to be 1 but big difference between 5 and 9

agreed, I think we just have to “hold off” Washington and OkC and we will probably be 6-7. It’s an absolute joke that New Orleans is in the mix for a top 5 pick and it makes you wonder how good their all star duo really is.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

-Dont play Fox, Barnes, Holmes and Hield +38minutes a game
-Expand your rotation to at least 10 players

These two things are huge because long term we really don't want any of those 4 getting hurt and we develop the guys who will be here next season. Problem is Walton likely won't be here next season and he is foolishly thinking by playing to eek out an extra 5 wins this season he is somehow helping his long term career outlook. ugggh.

 

[sactowndog]

agreed, I think we just have to “hold off” Washington and OkC and we will probably be 6-7. It’s an absolute joke that New Orleans is in the mix for a top 5 pick and it makes you wonder how good their all star duo really is.

even top 5 versus 7 is an increase of 10% landing a top 4 pick. And given top 4 means one of Cade, Mobley, Kuminga or Green you want to be top 5 in this draft. Which is why holding out for more than Nesmith and a 1st and finishing 9th makes no sense.

 

[Folsomkingsfan]

agreed, I think we just have to “hold off” Washington and OkC and we will probably be 6-7. It’s an absolute joke that New Orleans is in the mix for a top 5 pick and it makes you wonder how good their all star duo really is.

Zion isn't the needle mover people thought he was (it's a joke the NBA shoehorned him into the all star game) and Lonzo is regressing as a lead PG. Also Bledsoe and Reddick looked washed.

 

[Folsomkingsfan]

Ah yes, the purgatory method. This franchise knows it well.

Since 2010 we've only finished with a bottom 3 record once and that was 2010. In 8 years we've never had a bottom 5 record. I mean is this franchise ran by chimpanzees? What is so difficult about blowing up a garbage team just once in a good draft year and gunning for the number 1 pick? Why is Vivek and co so determined to build an 8th seed? Every year we finish with a mid to late lottery pick is another year of below average play and another year our reputation as a franchise gets worse.

2020 - 12th worst record
2019 - 14th worst record
2018 - 7th worst record
2017 - 8th worst record
2016 - 8th worst record
2015 - 6th worst record
2014 - 7th worst record
2013 - 6th worst record
2012 - 5th worst record
2011 - 5th worst record
2010 - 3rd worst record

 

[Livinthedream]

Zion isn't the needle mover people thought he was (it's a joke the NBA shoehorned him into the all star game) and Lonzo is regressing as a lead PG. Also Bledsoe and Reddick looked washed.

I follow my hometown team Pelicans and they have the exact same issues as Kings. Except worse because they have 2 all stars on the squad so they theoretically should be much better.

Fans complain Zion doesn't play defense, Bledsoe should be coming off the bench, youth should be playing more than the vets because they're not making playoffs, etc...

I suspect most losing teams have the same shortcomings.

 

[iowamcnabb]

If you do few simple things it will have some effect:

-Cut vets like Bjelica, Joseph, Whiteside out of the rotation
-Dont play Fox, Barnes, Holmes and Hield +38minutes a game
-Expand your rotation to at least 10 players

Also rest guys with nagging injuries. Doing those things can turn some of those close wins against tanking teams to close L's. The way our rotations are now will absolutely force us out of top 5. Anyone can ask themselves wether its worth it if we do it by playing tight rotations favouring vets and playing our starters Thibs level big minutes.

I agree with this but let’s say we do everything on this list. Who are we worse than?

 

[Telemachus]

Since 2010 we've only finished with a bottom 3 record once and that was 2010. In 8 years we've never had a bottom 5 record. I mean is this franchise ran by chimpanzees? What is so difficult about blowing up a garbage team just once in a good draft year and gunning for the number 1 pick? Why is Vivek and co so determined to build an 8th seed? Every year we finish with a mid to late lottery pick is another year of below average play and another year our reputation as a franchise gets worse.

2020 - 12th worst record
2019 - 14th worst record
2018 - 7th worst record
2017 - 8th worst record
2016 - 8th worst record
2015 - 6th worst record
2014 - 7th worst record
2013 - 6th worst record
2012 - 5th worst record
2011 - 5th worst record
2010 - 3rd worst record

Go back one more year and the Kings finished with the worst record & still ended up with the 4th pick.

 

[sactowndog]

Go back one more year and the Kings finished with the worst record & still ended up with the 4th pick.

yeah and if you had the 4th pick you would do backflips. This isn’t a year where it’s a one or two player draft. It’s a 5 player draft.

 

[SacTownKid]

Since 2010 we've only finished with a bottom 3 record once and that was 2010. In 8 years we've never had a bottom 5 record. I mean is this franchise ran by chimpanzees? What is so difficult about blowing up a garbage team just once in a good draft year and gunning for the number 1 pick? Why is Vivek and co so determined to build an 8th seed? Every year we finish with a mid to late lottery pick is another year of below average play and another year our reputation as a franchise gets worse.

2020 - 12th worst record
2019 - 14th worst record
2018 - 7th worst record
2017 - 8th worst record
2016 - 8th worst record
2015 - 6th worst record
2014 - 7th worst record
2013 - 6th worst record
2012 - 5th worst record
2011 - 5th worst record
2010 - 3rd worst record

Part of it is routinely having coaches that aren't in a position to sacrifice themselves to help a franchise out long term. The Joergers and Waltons of the world know their place in the coaching pecking order and it's the verge of being out of the business of head coaching. Walton totally tried to boost his record last year over the sake of development while in the bubble and if the GM doesn't have the brass to tell him to back off he'll do the same thing this year. Now will it guarantee losing? Maybe not, but the idea is development and not sticking to putting in valuable time and in game minutes into pieces that won't be here. They should have freaking brought back Baze this year. He was one of the only players that looked to fit what Walton was doing and instead they've given him less to work with and all that time put into players like that was for nothing in the end.

 

[Folsomkingsfan]

Go back one more year and the Kings finished with the worst record & still ended up with the 4th pick.

And in every year since we’ve only drafted higher than 5th once. I’d be thrilled if we got the 4th pick in this years draft.

 

[SLAB]

The correct answer is “OH MY GOD YES BLOW IT UP.”

The sad fact is we have a team assembled thats too talented to be TWolves/Rockets/Pistons bad, and not good enough to sniff the playoffs. Purgatory. Purgatory that only gets broken by something like, I dunno, miraculously rising up to #2 in the lottery and nailing that pick with a franchise altering star level talent. But you know..., stuff like that never happens to the Kings.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

I'd be pretty happy if we got to the Blazers level and they did it picking behind us in every draft. So did the Dubs for the most part. I definitely am down with throwing in the towel this season but I think the right coaching hire and a solid pick in the draft can get us pretty close to .500 ball next year. I'd like to see us package CoJo and Bjelica for a late first in exchange for a bad contract if possible and if we move Buddy for a 2022 pick next year and one-and-done is indeed gone then we'll be even better.

But really we need to get everyone on an expiring contract that we don't intend to bring back out by the trade deadline and force Luke to play deeper rotations with young talent.

 

[King Baller]

TO WHOEVER IS ACTUALLY RUNNING THE KINGS........REST DEAARON FOX IMMEDIATELY........GET A FREAKING CLUE!!!!! STOP WALTON FROM RUNNING HIS STARTERS INTO THE GROUND!

 

[King Baller]

Swipa and HB both played 40 minutes! Trae played 31 and no other Hawk even played 30.