To tank or not?

[coolhandluke]

Hmm.. it's only one game but today's game against the Magic exposes the need for another star that can hold fort when the primary guy goes down. As much as I love Rese, he is not that player yet. I think the Kings should welcome all the help they can get by maximizing their draft pick(s). The West isn't fading any time soon and the Kings have to stock up their arsenal to stay alive.

 

[sactowndog]

Hmm.. it's only one game but today's game against the Magic exposes the need for another star that can hold fort when the primary guy goes down. As much as I love Rese, he is not that player yet. I think the Kings should welcome all the help they can get by maximizing their draft pick(s). The West isn't fading any time soon and the Kings have to stock up their arsenal to stay alive.

I agree but as a long as Vivek is in charge don’t expect the Kings to make good decisions. They could likely trade Barnes but I would guess they won’t and I guess they will end up getting nothing for Beli same as Bogi.

the front office incompetence is never ending. They lucked into Haliburton and traded away Tillman who is playing big minutes for Memphis.

G-League game.
Kenyon Martin Jr. 14 pts 12 Boards. 6-11
J. Ramsey 6 pts. 4 Boards. 2-9 shooting.

as you know we traded away Kenyon Martin Jr.

 

[Gguod]

All teams have hot and cold streaks, all teams have injuries that will cost them games. Good teams will be over .500 in the long run despite of injuries or cold/hot streaks. Net rating is usually a good indicator of how good the team really is, our net rating is third worst in the whole league. We are not a good team, we are not a solid starter away from being a good team so maybe we should just pull the plug, trade the vets and focus on building around fox and haliburton. Drafting a star should probably be the main focus now.

We play our key players around 40min a game while favouring vets over young guys. Thats not sustainable and its very short sighted way of operating. It might net us some additional close wins but in the long run it wont do us much good

 

[gunks]

**** a tank. And this is coming from somebody who has been VERY pro tank throughout the years.

Fox and Hali are gonna take us places. This team is starting to gel and play some good ball too.

We don’t need to roll the dice on the lotto, then roll the dice again on another prospect. McNair needs to be worrying about building around the young core we have.

Redacted.

 

[miltonap]

Absolutely tank and I think this is the perfect year to do it.

There's no fans, so why not ?

This team at its best is not a contender and it's very unlikely that a 10-13 pick is going to move the needle at all.

They're an 8th seed at best.

Therefore there's no point to try to win games at all costs right now, try to grab a superstar in the draft.

Then you don't have to do this anymore.

I think fox, Bagley, haliburton, and star can definitely make noise.

Therefore I see zero point on trying to play the short play game here.

Stop playing vets to try to salvage wins.

Try to develop the young guys as much as possible, and really try to establish winning culture right now.

It's ok if they lose, but they need to play the right way.

Have a vet or two to keep the young guys in line but definitely don't try to scrap for wins right now, it's stupid.

It's just going to cost the promising young guys we have right now in the future.

Vivek needs to realize this is not a winning team right now. They need more talent and the best way to get it will be through the draft.

And of course this needs to be communicated throughout the organization and EVERYONE needs to be on the same page.

If Walton isn't the right coach to lead the team through such a scenario then get the right coach.

But again, everyone in the organization needs to be on the same page, it's so important

 

[kingsfan101]

I was off the tank bandwagon, and hoping we will fight for the postseason, even if the hopes were slim. Primary reason being that I thought the team wouldn't be bad enough to land a star, and we don't have a slew of draft picks.

Well, that has changed quickly. We do seem to have managed the improbable task of going from promising to wretched in a very short period. We do have some decent pieces, but are far from competing in the competitive West, which is only going to get tougher in the next couple of years as teams like OKC, Rockets, and Pelicans capitalize on the draft assets they have acquired.

In an era where competing teams are loading up with three potential MVP candidates and a slew of solid role players, we shall be happy if Fox makes the All-Star team. So, we certainly need urgent help, and the only real way we can get that is by getting a high pick next year.

So, I'm hopping on to the tank bandwagon. I hope we can get something (anything) for Beli/Cojo/Jabari, but don't have much hopes. Still iffy about trading away Barnes/Buddy, since I don't think we get a huge bounty, and will have clear holes on our roster next year without them. They are likely to hurt the tank efforts though, unless they develop mysterious injuries and skip games.

I do hope we play Kyle Guy some more. He has an elite skill and we need to see if he can contribute given consistent minutes and role. Good teams find ways to maximize their assets. We had a good run by playing the main guys too many minutes, and the moment some of them missed time, we went into a tailspin.

 

[Sluggah]

Redacted.

Same. I spoke too soon.

 

[midtowner]

Same. I spoke too soon.

I got fooled again, again.

 

[SacTownKid]

Absolutely tank and I think this is the perfect year to do it.

There's no fans, so why not ?

This team at its best is not a contender and it's very unlikely that a 10-13 pick is going to move the needle at all.

They're an 8th seed at best.

Therefore there's no point to try to win games at all costs right now, try to grab a superstar in the draft.

Then you don't have to do this anymore.

I think fox, Bagley, haliburton, and star can definitely make noise.

Therefore I see zero point on trying to play the short play game here.

Stop playing vets to try to salvage wins.

Try to develop the young guys as much as possible, and really try to establish winning culture right now.

It's ok if they lose, but they need to play the right way.

Have a vet or two to keep the young guys in line but definitely don't try to scrap for wins right now, it's stupid.

It's just going to cost the promising young guys we have right now in the future.

Vivek needs to realize this is not a winning team right now. They need more talent and the best way to get it will be through the draft.

And of course this needs to be communicated throughout the organization and EVERYONE needs to be on the same page.

If Walton isn't the right coach to lead the team through such a scenario then get the right coach.

But again, everyone in the organization needs to be on the same page, it's so important

I think unfortunately that might have been some part of the changes lately. The 180 was too obvious for it not to be some sort of sacrifice now and get it back later thing. Why specifically go away from what was working if not to "lose" or on the surface try and "develop" other things which could be the excuse when you move away from half court and defensive sets that fit the team much better during that run. The issue is good luck convincing anyone otherwise that it isn't partly a tank directive considering from day 1 there have been so few positives playing the motion offense and help defense they have at times.

 

[ppine]

At this point in the season, it is becoming obvious that the Kings are tanking. Whether it is a conscious decision or not remains to be seen.

 

[kingdivac]

Watched some highlights of Cunningham - definitely reminds me of Jayson Tatum - especially the shooting.

 

[Groovygreg]

TANK.This current Kings squad is mired in mediocrity and going nowhere without an infusion of youthful talent.

 

[The_Jamal]

https://twitter.com/statuses/1370262460775636995

Big issue with the team right here. Team, when healthy, is probably around a .500 club. If you fixed the bench, you could probably see like a 46-47 win team(over 82 games) with more growth from Fox/Hali/Bagley and a real coach.

But the upside is just capped. You can't even keep this core together as we're capped on what we can offer Holmes being over the cap. Bagley has played better this year, no doubt, but is still a long way away statistically from being a starting caliber player. And every year you keep this core together is another year we go without snagging a top end pick. Can't rely on snaking a Haliburton every year.

 

[Tetsujin]

https://twitter.com/statuses/1370262460775636995

Big issue with the team right here. Team, when healthy, is probably around a .500 club. If you fixed the bench, you could probably see like a 46-47 win team(over 82 games) with more growth from Fox/Hali/Bagley and a real coach.

But the upside is just capped. You can't even keep this core together as we're capped on what we can offer Holmes being over the cap. Bagley has played better this year, no doubt, but is still a long way away statistically from being a starting caliber player. And every year you keep this core together is another year we go without snagging a top end pick. Can't rely on snaking a Haliburton every year.

This is what happens when a GM jumps the gun and stops a rebuild a year too early (although considering we didn't have our pick that year anyways it probably doesn't matter).

 

[pdxKingsFan]

But the upside is just capped. You can't even keep this core together as we're capped on what we can offer Holmes being over the cap.

I'm confused about our cap situation here. Basketball Insiders (which I will admit I have no clue how reliable they are) has us projected at 11.8 million under the cap if we keep Cojo who is due 12.6. I think assuming we keep CoJo is misguided. So that's up to 24 million before figuring in any exceptions - how much do you think Holmes is going to cost us? I'd think we'd be able to re-sign Holmes for 12-15million and I think I'd balk at a higher price. So we should be able to resign and be able to get a rotation piece plus whoever we get in the draft. Now obviously trading our expiring deals could complicate that and our draft pick will likely eat up 4-6 mil which I am not sure if they already factor in their projection.

 

[mac]

This is what happens when a GM jumps the gun and stops a rebuild a year too early (although considering we didn't have our pick that year anyways it probably doesn't matter).

Cough replace Bagley with Luka cough

 

[King Baller]

Well, you can't lose them all!

 

[dude12]

I saw a tweet that Halliburton’s minutes will be restricted the remainder of the year......didn’t read the article that goes with it. Tank mode or the athletic staff overly protecting a young athlete?

 

[whozit]

I saw a tweet that Halliburton’s minutes will be restricted the remainder of the year......didn’t read the article that goes with it. Tank mode or the athletic staff overly protecting a young athlete?

Not mutually exclusive

 

[SLAB]

I saw a tweet that Halliburton’s minutes will be restricted the remainder of the year......didn’t read the article that goes with it. Tank mode or the athletic staff overly protecting a young athlete?

Win now mode actually. Just means more minutes for Cory Goatseph.

 

[kb02]

Tank.

I'm totally okay with restricting Haliburton's minutes and letting Buddy play the entire fourth. Dude's our best tank commander. And Bagley too in close games, since he'll think it's the two minute offense until the final bell.

I haven't watched any Kings games for a few weeks. Not planning to until after the trade deadline. By then, I hope Barnes (likely traded), Cojo (likely cut), Buddy (please trade his ass), Bjelly (deserves a good home elsewhere), Hassan (let's get something for him), and Holmes (trade and sign as a bench big next year) will be gone. Then we can all sit back and watch the two cornerstones + the rapper with upside, but no defense + the G-League kids + the new players (I'll settle for Langford + a Boston first + fodder) finish the season.

Or throw the above out the window and bring in KAT. A Fox + Hali + Kat core is a top 4 western play off team with a real shot of winning it all during their window.

 

[ESP47]

Amick said they're doing a "soft" tank. Which is par for the Kangz course. Soft tank and cross your fingers that an all star is sitting there at 8 while the smart teams tank and up their odds of landing the all stars in the top 5.

 

[gunks]

Amick said they're doing a "soft" tank. Which is par for the Kangz course. Soft tank and cross your fingers that an all star is sitting there at 8 while the smart teams tank and up their odds of landing the all stars in the top 5.

Wonderful.

 

[The_Jamal]

Amick said they're doing a "soft" tank. Which is par for the Kangz course. Soft tank and cross your fingers that an all star is sitting there at 8 while the smart teams tank and up their odds of landing the all stars in the top 5.

Here's the issue I have though. I want to sell too, but I also want us to actually get fair value for our good players. One of the giant issues we've had that had kept us bad the last 15 years is getting pennies on the dollar, or basically nothing from our good players. Cousins, IT2, Reke, Gay, Bogi. All were traded for well below value or let go because we didn't trade them soon enough.

 

[sactowndog]

Amick said they're doing a "soft" tank. Which is par for the Kangz course. Soft tank and cross your fingers that an all star is sitting there at 8 while the smart teams tank and up their odds of landing the all stars in the top 5.

Kings struggle to do anything right including tanking in a year where the gap between the top 5 and the rest is widely acknowledged to be significant.

 

[sactowndog]

Here's the issue I have though. I want to sell too, but I also want us to actually get fair value for our good players. One of the giant issues we've had that had kept us bad the last 15 years is getting pennies on the dollar, or basically nothing from our good players. Cousins, IT2, Reke, Gay, Bogi. All were traded for well below value or let go because we didn't trade them soon enough.

fair value is what the market will provide. We got nothing for Bogi because we waited to long and when push came to shove didn’t take what was there and as a result got nothing.

 

[SLAB]

This team will always suck. Lol

 

[The_Jamal]

fair value is what the market will provide. We got nothing for Bogi because we waited to long and when push came to shove didn’t take what was there and as a result got nothing.

We got nothing for Bogi because Vlade waited too long and McNair smartly didn't tie us to another large veteran contract that wasn't going to make us a playoff team.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

fair value is what the market will provide. We got nothing for Bogi because we waited to long and when push came to shove didn’t take what was there and as a result got nothing.

If his agent or MIL could have kept their effin mouths shut I think we'd all be pretty delighted with DDV and Buddy would have been shipped months ago. I see no scenario where taking on a few bad contracts to get a 2nd rounder or TPE equivalent to the MLE benefit this team.

 

[ESP47]

Here's the issue I have though. I want to sell too, but I also want us to actually get fair value for our good players. One of the giant issues we've had that had kept us bad the last 15 years is getting pennies on the dollar, or basically nothing from our good players. Cousins, IT2, Reke, Gay, Bogi. All were traded for well below value or let go because we didn't trade them soon enough.

I agree with that and they obviously shouldn't be trading away Barnes or Hield for pennies, but guys like CoJo and Bjelica aren't going to fetch much other than a 2nd rounder. If their minutes can be replaced by the young players or at least some of their minutes if they're still on the roster, that would help at least somewhat with the tank while developing at the same time.

Problem is that Walton isn't here to tank, so McNair has to force it through roster moves. It's yet another Kangz move by having a coach fighting for his coaching career during a rebuild year with a lot of vets on the roster and an upcoming draft with a lot of talent at the top. Everyone has different agendas and they're all conflicting, which makes it more difficult to build a talented team in the future.