Does this Kings team have an Identity?

ockingsfan

ockingsfan

Starter
#1
#1
Here we are in the middle of looking lost once again as the season heads to pivotal point of the season.

The first five games were a terrible mess. No direction, no BBIQ, no heart and no hustle to win. No Bagley after his game 1 injury.

After that, the teams started to turn things around with a mixture of tempo and resolve to become competitive. Things were looking up.

Then D Fox goes down and many fans thought the season was toast. But, the Kings all of the sudden became a team that put defense first and won on grit and grind.

Then Bagley makes his way back and then Fox comes back. All of the sudden, the Kings look lost again. They are no longer the pace and tempo team that found moderate success last year. They are no longer that grit and grind team that brought the Kings back into the playoff 7th seed, even with Fox and Bagley's injured.

With the roster back to full health, except for the on and off injury to Bogdan, the Kings are still searching for that winning chemistry and identity. Are the Kings pace and tempo or are they grit or grind or are can they find success with something in between?

I'm not sure, but Coach Walton has to figure this thing out and fast or the Kings season can spiral down the toilet very quickly.

What will the Kings Identity ultimately need to be, for this team to become a perenial playoff team?
 
P

ppine

Starter
#3
#3
You asking good questions. I do not believe the Kings are playing mediocre basketball due changes in tempo, resolve or chemistry.
They are lost because they got away from the defensive intensity that kept them in games. They turn the ball over. Sometimes their rebounding is terrible. Sometimes they have bad shooting nights and they do not pound the ball inside. It is basketball fundamentals that they forget about. They start playing like a young team which of course they are.
 
VF21

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#6
#6
Do they have an identity? I think so. The problem is they haven't found it yet...

I truly believe the players and Walton are reading from the same book. They just haven't gotten to the same page quite yet. I think they will...
 
S

Siranthony

Starter
#7
#7
We had two identities which where mentioned. The problem IMO is forcing young players into the lineup who don't play defence. IMO we should not let anyone one play who is not committed or able to play defence. We let the Griz walk all over us. Our lack of defence led to desperation on offence. We look lost and it is disappointing. I understand the need to develop young players. But the players need incentive to develop also.
 
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sergmatt

Bench
#8
#8
VF21 said:
Do they have an identity? I think so. The problem is they haven't found it yet...

I truly believe the players and Walton are reading from the same book. They just haven't gotten to the same page quite yet. I think they will...
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Hoping for a good outcome but you know it's possible that losing/ineptitude could be the identity of this 2019/2020 team.

I say that for a few reasons....

1.) This team wasn't good last year after the Barnes trade and the all-star break. Various reasons have been given for that but one of them was that they didn't run at such a frenetic pace that they did at the beginning of last season. The pace the Kings played with early last season absolutely contributed to some of their wins as they were just flat out running teams off the court. Was it sustainable? I don't know. Was it a good long term formula to winning? I don't know.

What I do know though is that they won more games than they lost using that formula. Since they've gone away from that style of play (both last year and this year) they have lost more games than they've won.

2.) Buddy is worse this year and 2/4 free agent signings backfired.

3.) Neither Fox or Bagley seems to have taken the expected step forward. I'd like to see Fox play a few more games first but so far he doesn't look like he's added or improved any part of his game this year. Bagley also appears to have made almost zero improvements to his game from last year. It almost seems like he's regressed. I don't think he actually has regressed but that's how it looks when he was expected to be better this year. I do think that Bagley will improve a lot as the season goes on but it's troubling that he hasn't done it already.
 
VF21

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#9
#9
sergmatt said:
Hoping for a good outcome but you know it's possible that losing/ineptitude could be the identity of this 2019/2020 team.

I say that for a few reasons....

1.) This team wasn't good last year after the Barnes trade and the all-star break. Various reasons have been given for that but one of them was that they didn't run at such a frenetic pace that they did at the beginning of last season. The pace the Kings played with early last season absolutely contributed to some of their wins as they were just flat out running teams off the court. Was it sustainable? I don't know. Was it a good long term formula to winning? I don't know.

What I do know though is that they won more games than they lost using that formula. Since they've gone away from that style of play (both last year and this year) they have lost more games than they've won.

2.) Buddy is worse this year and 2/4 free agent signings backfired.

3.) Neither Fox or Bagley seems to have taken the expected step forward. I'd like to see Fox play a few more games first but so far he doesn't look like he's added or improved any part of his game this year. Bagley also appears to have made almost zero improvements to his game from last year. It almost seems like he's regressed. I don't think he actually has regressed but that's how it looks when he was expected to be better this year. I do think that Bagley will improve a lot as the season goes on but it's troubling that he hasn't done it already.
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I'm not about to define this team as losers in December. I'll give Luke Walton a little more time.

You might be right...I might be right. Only time will tell but I still derive joy from watching (most of the time ;) ).
 
P

ppine

Starter
#11
#11
Last night against Houston, the Kings' established their identity again. They played defense and got back in the game in the 4th quarter.
The guys responsible for being competitive were Fox, Joseph, Barnes, Bejelica and Holmes. Ariza had a role also. That means that the big comeback against a quality team did not really involve Hield, Bagley or Bogdan. Not to mention Giles.

The identity is in a state of transitionm All of the talk last year about Giles and Bagley becomes kind of moot. Hield's role as a great scorer is diminished. Bogdan not only has injuries but is struggling if you ask me. He turns the ball over, dribbles too much and is a half step slow on defense. The new Kings maybe the group in the first paragraph. Time will tell.
 
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burekijogurt

Starter
#13
#13
ppine said:
Last night against Houston, the Kings' established their identity again. They plyaed defense and got back in the game in the 4th quarter.
The guys responsible for being competitive were Fox, Joseph, Barnes, Bejelica and Holmes. Ariza had a role also. That means that the big comeback against a quality team did not really involve Hield, Bagley or Bogdan. Not to mention Giles.

The identity is in a state of transition All of the talk last year about Giles and Bagley becomes kind of moot. Hield's role as a great scorer is diminished. Bogdan not only has injuries but is struggling if you ask me. He turns the ball over, dribbles too much and is a half step slow on defense. The new Kings maybe the group in the first paragraph. Time will tell.
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I would note that this sample is one game only, or rather one quarter only. In addition, as a self-appointed Bogdan defender of KingsFans.com I would like to point out that he has the second best AST/TO ratio on the team behind Correy Joseph. He turns the ball over less than both Fox and Buddy. All that said, I hope the Kings regain their focus on defensive end like they did in the fourth quarter vs Houston. Players that don't display the effort, concentration, and/or effectiveness on the defensive end will probably lose playing time...
 
ockingsfan

ockingsfan

Starter
#14
#14
burekijogurt said:
I would note that this sample is one game only, or rather one quarter only. In addition, as a self-appointed Bogdan defender of KingsFans.com I would like to point out that he has the second best AST/TO ratio on the team behind Correy Joseph. He turns the ball over less than both Fox and Buddy. All that said, I hope the Kings regain their focus on defensive end like they did in the fourth quarter vs Houston. Players that don't display the effort, concentration, and/or effectiveness on the defensive end will probably lose playing time...
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I think Bogdan is essential for the Kings success. This recent swoon has coincided with Bogdan’s injury.

He is the leader of the bench mob and without him, we lose the spark from our second unit.
 
P

ppine

Starter
#17
#17
ockingsfan said:
I think Bogdan is essential for the Kings success. This recent swoon has coincided with Bogdan’s injury.

He is the leader of the bench mob and without him, we lose the spark from our second unit.
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Bogdan is an important part of the second unit. I agree with that. Some people see him starting.
 
steelevt

steelevt

All-Star
#19
#19
upinsmoke said:
How many mins have Fox/Joseph played together?
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Whatever it is, I think it’s too many minutes. Unless it’s the last defensive possession in a quarter or game. CoJo takes the ball out of fox’s hands and is a non factor on offense so the other team sags off of him and clogs the middle.
 
Albatros

Albatros

Starter
#23
#23
jellyfish said:
We are not a young team at all the only two young players that get playing time are Fox/Bagley everyone else is a vet, James/Giles don't play at all for the most part, I agree with the dumb part.
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We have put all our eggs in the basket of two youngish prospects. All teams do that. Just that we've consistently put eggs in the wrong baskets for years and years and years. It appears we have done so again.
 
Peja

Peja

Bench
#25
#25
No, this team has no identity. Buddy calling out the coaching staff, Bogdan getting booed at the game, Kings having 0-6 score when both Fox and Bagley are on the court, Walton playing Bogdan who can't score for his life and benching Bjelica who was one of the best players this season... things are awful right now and it doesn't look like something's going to change soon.
 
P

ppine

Starter
#26
#26
This team has their defensive identity. They have the hard-nosed blue collar indentity of Mr. Holmes. On offense they have lost it completely and are discouraged and disorganized. They lack confidence. They are running scared.
 
FoxOnTheRun

FoxOnTheRun

G-League
#27
#27
Of course we have an identity...

We're the softest team in the league with a cringy IG account that wears your teams colors. o_O

Seriously... Go back to Purple and Black ONLY. Keep Fox, Bogi and Holmes.. Everyone else can go.
 
P

ppine

Starter
#28
#28
Right now the Kings play pretty hard. That is their identity. They are not very smart some times. They make mistakes. They lack confidence especially at the end of games, but they play hard. That is something important to recognize.

Their defensive identity comes and goes. They cannot seem to put it together for 4 quarters.
 
kb02

kb02

All-Star
#29
#29
B

Booster

Prospect
#30
#30
ppine said:
Right now the Kings play pretty hard. That is their identity. They are not very smart some times. They make mistakes. They lack confidence especially at the end of games, but they play hard. That is something important to recognize.

Their defensive identity comes and goes. They cannot seem to put it together for 4 quarters.
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They don’t play hard they regularly go down by 20 pts and lose to teams with worse records than their own. The team has quit on the coach.
 
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