Luka Doncic (the 'LET'S RE-LITIGATE THE PICK UNTO PERPETUITY~!' thread)
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When the slow euro whose age wouldn’t transfer over averages 20-6-5 the have to hope he regress. Eve though he’s been improving since he was 16
He’s a very good post player he took fox to the post some I was in disbelief he didn’t do it the second we put fox on him. He’ll be even better in he post when he turns his fat to muscle. Teams won’t be able to put small guys like that in him soon
He’s a very good post player he took fox to the post some I was in disbelief he didn’t do it the second we put fox on him. He’ll be even better in he post when he turns his fat to muscle. Teams won’t be able to put small guys like that in him soon
A lot of people in this thread are apparently in the wrong line of work as they speak with such certainty about the future.
Does Doncic have the potential to be a superstar? Sure
Will teams adjust to his game and force him to develop counters? Yep we shall see if he can
Has he shown an exceptional ability to get his shot off and make them? Absolutely better than I and some others expected.
Will he be a better long term player than Bagley? Only the fortune tellers in this thread know.
Does Doncic have the potential to be a superstar? Sure
Will teams adjust to his game and force him to develop counters? Yep we shall see if he can
Has he shown an exceptional ability to get his shot off and make them? Absolutely better than I and some others expected.
Will he be a better long term player than Bagley? Only the fortune tellers in this thread know.
Dude....what do you call his play right now? Close your eyes and stick your fingers in your ears all you want, but it’s pretty obvious. I’ve stated many times I’m ok with the MBIII pick and the decision should be viewed in years not months, and in team wins that Marvin contributes to the Kings, not head to head individual accolades against Luka. However, to not see what Luka is doing during the first half season of his NBA career and conclude anything other than a high likelihood for a tremendous career is sticking your head in the sand. Good luck with that.
I see someone averaging 20.0 points a game which is extremely good but hardly superstar level. Especially when he is shooting 43.5% efficiency. For comparison Donovan Mitchell averaged 20.5 on 43.7% shooting last year. Tyreke Evans averaged 20.1 on 45.8% shooting.
In all cases it’s a great start but by no means is he guaranteed to be a superstar.
In all cases it’s a great start but by no means is he guaranteed to be a superstar.
Not the same thing at all. Some of you need to stop being so blasted defensive about him. Is he a good possibly great player? Yep, not a doubt. That doesn't mean he might not regress. I think sactowndog makes some excellent points:
The tendency to make straw man arguments about Luka Doncic is stronger in this thread than I've ever seen. He's not perfect and if the tendency of some is to at least want to point out some issues that might come up, I think it's fair. I wish we still had the threads from 2003 when LBJ made his first professional appearance (against the Kings in ARCO). Even his game had room for improvement (admittedly not a lot) and this is LeBron freaking James we're talking about.
The tendency to make straw man arguments about Luka Doncic is stronger in this thread than I've ever seen. He's not perfect and if the tendency of some is to at least want to point out some issues that might come up, I think it's fair. I wish we still had the threads from 2003 when LBJ made his first professional appearance (against the Kings in ARCO). Even his game had room for improvement (admittedly not a lot) and this is LeBron freaking James we're talking about.
sactowndog and I often disagree but I think he's more right than wrong in this instance. Doncic isn't perfect. He actually COULD hit the rookie wall and go through a dry spell. I personally see teams spending a lot of time watching game tapes and focusing on how to stop him. This is the NBA we're talking about and teams looking to face the Mavs are going to be using every trick in the book and then some to stop him.
Doncic does have a "high likelihood for a tremendous career" and I don't really see anyone contradicting that. What I see - and I honestly don't have a horse in this race since I'm not invested in any player whose jersey doesn't say Sacramento on the front (DMC not withstanding) - is a small contingency of fans here who are still so bitter about us not drafting Doncic that they're putting him on a very high pedestal which just begs for people to try and knock him off.
Doncic does have a "high likelihood for a tremendous career" and I don't really see anyone contradicting that. What I see - and I honestly don't have a horse in this race since I'm not invested in any player whose jersey doesn't say Sacramento on the front (DMC not withstanding) - is a small contingency of fans here who are still so bitter about us not drafting Doncic that they're putting him on a very high pedestal which just begs for people to try and knock him off.
I am not saying he is perfect, but I am saying that he is not going to hit that wall. And i literally all the time try to have unbiased opinions, unless it's obvious irony or rarely trolling...
Thing about Luka is that he is an extremely hard working dude, that is 19 and actually has so much room to improve.... Besides that he has guts and is skilled... some might say a complete package.... so when defense go after him, i believe he will know no less than any other good player to adapt.... If anybody listened to any euro coach talking about him, would think the same... so one of the best ever coaches outside USA, Dusan Ivkovic, said that he never saw a player talented as luka... Another huge coach, Zeljko Obradovic, mentioned same thing and said that Luka understands that he has to work hard to achieve goals and that is very mature for his age... Blat said that in his opinion, knowing both leagues, Luka should be pick No1 without any doubt... And maybe most important thing is (and nobody is talking about this), Luka's father was a professional basketball player and was introducing basketball to his son since before his first birthday... That might not sound unfamiliar for a ballers family, but after recently I heard about that and seeing Luka's development, it came to my mind story about Polgar family. Who doesn't know it, I recommend checking it, very interesting... It's about father psychologist who was claiming that you can make any person a genius or something if you develop him/her correctly since birth. To prove it, he got married, got three daughters, and decied to teach them chess. They turned out to be 3 best female chess players ever... So if Luka's parents were doing something similar (and i can't see them doing it far from good by just observing Luka, and that's not just his play), I can see him reaching Lebron's level more than I can see him regressing... I guess time will tell
Fair points all. When I speak of regression, I'm not talking a permanent decline. I'm speaking of a point in time when he does hit the wall, goes into a bit of a slump, etc. I've watched the NBA for over 50 years and seen it way too many times in even the best rookies.
But bottom line? I wish him all the luck in the world and hope he has a long and successful career - on every night except when he's facing the Kings.
But bottom line? I wish him all the luck in the world and hope he has a long and successful career - on every night except when he's facing the Kings.
The odds are overwhelmingly against Luka not hitting the wall. High usage, new environment. And all rookies hit it. As you said that's why they call it the Rookie Wall. But if he does not hit it, would't that be something?
Anyway, Donic with 23 after 3 vs Dubs. 5-6 for three, his last at the end of 3rd quarter over Durant. His only missed one a full court heave at the end of 2nd.
Anyway, Donic with 23 after 3 vs Dubs. 5-6 for three, his last at the end of 3rd quarter over Durant. His only missed one a full court heave at the end of 2nd.
The rookie wall usually applies to rookies who come from the shorter season NCAA system.
The 2017-18 season Luka played:
37 ACB Games
33 Euro League Games
Both leagues run Oct-June, a schedule more similar to the NBA than the NCAA.
While he might hit a lull he's better prepared for the NBA season than those coming from the NCAA system.
The 2017-18 season Luka played:
37 ACB Games
33 Euro League Games
Both leagues run Oct-June, a schedule more similar to the NBA than the NCAA.
While he might hit a lull he's better prepared for the NBA season than those coming from the NCAA system.
Okay, I see what my misunderstanding was: the way European basketball is set up, Real Madrid was playing in what we in the US would understand as two different leagues, concurrently. So, instead of playing in one league for 33 games, and the second league for 37 games, the way we would look at it, he essentially played one 70-game season.
Not quite eighty, but I can see greater cause for confidence, that being considered.
EDIT - Just for the record, I found all that out on my own: @rainmaker is just a faster typer than I am. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Not quite eighty, but I can see greater cause for confidence, that being considered.
EDIT - Just for the record, I found all that out on my own: @rainmaker is just a faster typer than I am. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I calculated Real Madrid played 43 ACB games, 34 Euroleague games, 5 Spanish cups games in 2018. That is 86 games... One can guess that he might have missed some of those games. In 2017 Real might not have reached finals in all competitions, so less games there, but with Slovenian national team Luka had 9 more games, excluding friendly matches... That is why I said around 80, and it might very well be closer to 90....
Adding to answer to question about my confidence about him, is that not only that he is not a rookie who played less that 50 games, but he, at his even younger age then now, won MVP awards in pretty much every competition he played in, and his teams won those competitions. That goes way back when he was a kid and was already playing with a competition few years older then him, and guess, also dominated...
There is a reason he was considered number one prospect for the last draft. and that is him playing overseas, not despite that. He was the only player you could have actually know what you're getting, without the need to guess
Adding to answer to question about my confidence about him, is that not only that he is not a rookie who played less that 50 games, but he, at his even younger age then now, won MVP awards in pretty much every competition he played in, and his teams won those competitions. That goes way back when he was a kid and was already playing with a competition few years older then him, and guess, also dominated...
There is a reason he was considered number one prospect for the last draft. and that is him playing overseas, not despite that. He was the only player you could have actually know what you're getting, without the need to guess
I'm jumping into a 31 page thread without reading through all the all the sniping back and forth, so I will grant you that. I'm not saying he's perfect. I also completely see the hype machine working overtime (hello "Ringer"); however, I don't think it's unreasonable to look at both the statistical achievements at such a young age, plus the eye factor in watching his games, to say he's something special. I stated he will be a superstar for the next 15 years. Is that a sure thing, of course not; however, I would absolutely take that bet.
I think to truly be a superstar he has to improve his lateral quickness to be a 3. Most top power forwards give you some rim protection on defense. Jaren Jackson averages 1.5 blocks a game and Bagley averages 1.0 on much fewer minutes. One of Dallas’s problems is they are 24th in blocked shots and teams have a highway to the Rim. And that’s with Jordan being 25th. Luka at .3 a game is a big part of the problem. To provide a compare Justin is at a .2.
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That's splitting hairs, IMO. It's generally understood (at least, in the US) that when you're talking about how many games a player has played in a season, you're only talking about the regular season. Nobody would ever say that LeBron James, for instance, played in 104 games last year, unless it was in the context of how hard it is to get back to the Finals.
You also have to factor the timeframe for those respective schedules: EuroLeague and ACB have much friendlier schedules than the NBA. We're talking about 79 games over the course of eight months (October 1-May 24) and, even with both those leagues running concurrently, no back-to-backs. For huge stretches of its respective schedules, it doesn't look like Real Madrid played more frequently than twice a week, even playing in two leagues at the same time; there appear to be two, maybe three times all season, where they played as many as four games in seven nights. Outside of the Copa Del Rey, which is a tournament final, it doesn't seem as though Doncic had ever played in a B2B, before he got to the NBA.
I'm not saying that Doncic is definitely going to hit the Rookie Wall, but 82 games in 23 weeks is a bit of a different proposition than 79 games in 32.
You also have to factor the timeframe for those respective schedules: EuroLeague and ACB have much friendlier schedules than the NBA. We're talking about 79 games over the course of eight months (October 1-May 24) and, even with both those leagues running concurrently, no back-to-backs. For huge stretches of its respective schedules, it doesn't look like Real Madrid played more frequently than twice a week, even playing in two leagues at the same time; there appear to be two, maybe three times all season, where they played as many as four games in seven nights. Outside of the Copa Del Rey, which is a tournament final, it doesn't seem as though Doncic had ever played in a B2B, before he got to the NBA.
I'm not saying that Doncic is definitely going to hit the Rookie Wall, but 82 games in 23 weeks is a bit of a different proposition than 79 games in 32.
I’ve already shown you highlights of him playing defense in crunch time the kid is 19 do you expect him to be Kawhi. He’s 6’9 he’s not s defensive liability he has to carry the load you think he’s gonna he a lockdown defender while creating everything for his team on offense.
How many players are playing defense anyways? Lebron, curry, harden, and Jokic all don’t play defense and in Lebron/hardens case they only play defense in crunch time but you expect Luka to be a 2 way play at 18
How many players are playing defense anyways? Lebron, curry, harden, and Jokic all don’t play defense and in Lebron/hardens case they only play defense in crunch time but you expect Luka to be a 2 way play at 18
I don't disagree. In those 31 pages you honestly admit (thank you) to not reading, there are a FEW who are so rabidly pro-Doncic it's close to nauseating. When that happens, there are some around here (even myself once or twice - a fact of which I am not proud) who go to the other extreme so that the aggregate opinion is somewhere closer to reality.
For my sanity, I try and stay out of it now. The pull is strong, however, and no matter how hard I try, I keep coming back to see if there's more carnage.
It's become more about the personalities of the people posting than about one very talented young man - and that's kind of a shame.
Even the post right before mine serves as an example. Someone brings up a flaw in Doncic's game and one of the Doncic protagonists responds by questioning the validity of the flaw assessment instead of acknowledging there could be parts of Luka's game he needs to work on.
This thread is not for the faint of heart ... or those grounded in logic and reason.
For my sanity, I try and stay out of it now. The pull is strong, however, and no matter how hard I try, I keep coming back to see if there's more carnage.
It's become more about the personalities of the people posting than about one very talented young man - and that's kind of a shame.
Even the post right before mine serves as an example. Someone brings up a flaw in Doncic's game and one of the Doncic protagonists responds by questioning the validity of the flaw assessment instead of acknowledging there could be parts of Luka's game he needs to work on.
This thread is not for the faint of heart ... or those grounded in logic and reason.
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