Marvin Bagley III

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Dude, you're missing such a huge part of the equation though... How good of an NBA player will each guy be? Positional value only comes into play if the talent level is close. If it's Bagley equals Amare Stoudemire and Luka equals LeBron James then yeah, it's a no brainer. Problem is Doncic will never be lebron. He might be Gordon Hayward level though. Bagley actually has a good shot at being Amare level. I think the original post dealt with win shares? Amare peaked out at over 14ws while Haywards best has been 10. Hayward plays the more valuable position and the more valuable brand of basketball but Amare was a better player. Get the best player... This isn't the NFL draft where a QB trumps everything.
Amare is a career .8 OBPM with a career high of 3.5. Even if you tell me 100 % Bagley will be Amare I still roll the dice on Doncic. Why wasn't Amare a career winner? Because he was a bad defender in a position that needs defense to be high impact. Who drove his best success? Steve Nash, a guard.
 
Amare is a career .8 OBPM with a career high of 3.5. Even if you tell me 100 % Bagley will be Amare I still roll the dice on Doncic. Why wasn't Amare a career winner? Because he was a bad defender in a position that needs defense to be high impact. Who drove his best success? Steve Nash, a guard.
https://m.clevescene.com/scene-and-...plus-minus-the-bogus-new-stat-everyones-using

There's a major Sacramento dis in there too. Dunno why this city has such a bad wrap... Good weather, affordable, close to a bunch of cool stuff, traffic not too insane. Super irritating.
 
https://m.clevescene.com/scene-and-...plus-minus-the-bogus-new-stat-everyones-using

There's a major Sacramento dis in there too. Dunno why this city has such a bad wrap... Good weather, affordable, close to a bunch of cool stuff, traffic not too insane. Super irritating.
I know Chris Parker. He left a Cleveland cavs messageboard because he was using Chris Brousard as an expert reporter because it fit his narrative and got butthurt when peopel called him out. He spends most of his time now spouting leftist ideology on twitter and not basketball. He is not a basketball expert and doesn't have a background in analystics. He is a writer.
 
If you read it, it was said he jumped like Marion, bouncy, quick off his feet.
But multiple people here are taking it like he is Shawn Marion so it's a win win no matter who is picked between Bagley and Doncic. It must be disclosed that he is nothing like Shawn Marion the basketball player.
 
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I don't think he is anything like Marion either but i do see him as a Chris Bosh type skill set with plus athleticism. We will see if he develops into that but it's my projection. Optimistic? I hope not!
 
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I don't think he is anything like Marion either but i do see him as a Chris Bosh type skill set with plus athleticism. We will see if he develops into that but it's my projection.
Now that you bring up Chris Bosh. He didn't even make the playoffs the year before joining the heat where he went on to have success playing with two elite wings and improving his defense.

The evidence is damning. You dont win with bigs that aren't elite defensive players.
 
Now that you bring up Chris Bosh. He didn't even make the playoffs the year before joining the heat where he went on to have success playing with two elite wings and improving his defense.

The evidence is damning. You dont win with bigs that aren't elite defensive players.
The evidence is damning that you don't win titles without hall of fame players and multiple all stars. Put DeMarcus on Cleveland or Golden State and they're doing just fine. Put Steph on the Kings and we're still coming up short. Transcendent talents aside, you need a collection of all stars to win anything. Let's get an all star.
 
I get your point and its valid, however in Today's modern nba all comes modern defensive schemes. Rim protectors are mostly irrelevant in today's NBA because of spacing (Deandre Jordan) but guys like Anthony Davis still thrive because of his lateral quickness. Now by no means am i attempting to compare either of the Sticky Bandits to AD's defensive prowess but the concept of them having great lateral quickness is clear and with the right coaching could be taught to create an effective switching defense without having to play small ball.
 
The evidence is damning that you don't win titles without hall of fame players and multiple all stars. Put DeMarcus on Cleveland or Golden State and they're doing just fine. Put Steph on the Kings and we're still coming up short. Transcendent talents aside, you need a collection of all stars to win anything. Let's get an all star.
The offense that is driving that success is predomianntly guards and wings outside of a few outliers. You don't draft for outliers, you draft for highest probability of success.
 
If Bagley is the only one if the top prospects (besides Porter) to have a desire to be here then, imo, he has to be the guy. One of the key aspects in our core is the great chemistry, so we need someone who wants to be here and be a giving their all.
As much as I want jjj it's tough to draft a guy that doesn't want to come here. We did take on Weber and convert him so it's possible, just risky.
 
If Bagley is the only one if the top prospects (besides Porter) to have a desire to be here then, imo, he has to be the guy. One of the key aspects in our core is the great chemistry, so we need someone who wants to be here and be a giving their all.
No, you take the best player and call their bluff. Goldne State did that with Curry. When is the last time someone refused to play for the team that drafted him? Danny Ferry, Billy Owens? 25 + years ago...
 
The offense that is driving that success is predomianntly guards and wings outside of a few outliers. You don't draft for outliers, you draft for highest probability of success.
Dude it's Lebron and KD. Let's not act like all these other guards and wings are winning titles. At the end of the day you need All stars and Super Stars to win. I get your point but you are totally over looking the fact that the 2 best players in the world are SF so it skews the data.
 
Dude it's Lebron and KD. Let's not act like all these other guards and wings are winning titles. At the end of the day you need All stars and Super Stars to win. I get your point but you are totally over looking the fact that the 2 best players in the world are SF so it skews the data.
It skews the data going back 30 + years?
 
No, you take the best player and call their bluff. Goldne State did that with Curry. When is the last time someone refused to play for the team that drafted him? Danny Ferry, Billy Owens? 25 + years ago...
We obviously think Bagley is the best player so are you suggesting we not take your advice and go BPA?
 
Im not worrying too much about his defense. You have to remember that these AAU guys are not asked to defend in that glorified pick up ball culture. Duke was his only year where he has gotten proper coaching. He has the tools theoretically to develop into a guy who can switch 1-5, and thats what you are hoping for if you draft him.
This for me is an interesting point. Porter, JJ have all had outstanding coaching to help them develop. Bagley has not. Whether he’s too old to develop might be a question but I think he’s the kid if he went to college who would explode.
 
We obviously think Bagley is the best player so are you suggesting we not take your advice and go BPA?
Not with Doncic on the board he isn't. You don't win with a no defense big man unless he has a smaller role carried by better players. If we are drafting Bagley as our franchise player we are doomed. Especially considering we don't have a pick next year.
 
Not with Doncic on the board he isn't. You don't win with a no defense big man unless he has a smaller role carried by better players. If we are drafting Bagley as our franchise player we are doomed. Especially considering we don't have a pick next year.
That's your opinion. Agree to disagree.
 

Kingster

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Boom, baby! Been saying this all along. Trust the Prophecy Trust the Blob :p When the Kings take Bagley and Vlade is asked why was this decision made his answer will be partly how much they like what they have in Fox and Boggy. This is the variable national press and many fans overlook. The playmaking, Lukas best attribute, is handled by our two "cornerstones". We don't need this conflict with a bunch of creators and not enough capable finishers. It is disputable how much better if at all Luka is running pick and roll (Boggy) and breaking down his man (Fox). If the Kings did not believe in Fox and Boggy, then maybe you take Luka and turn the team over to him. That is NOT justified. If you watched most of the games last season you know this as well as any self-proclaimed expert. Accordingly you should have the confidence our front office will come to this conclusion. Of course Luka is going to be a good player. But it won't be with the Kings.

And it's not only Fox and Bogs. It's Giles. I've heard numerous times that the Kings' players say Giles is the best passer on the team. If he's better than Fox and Bogs, then I'd say passing is the very least of this team's concerns!
 
Sure I'll gladly go back 30 years and show that typically the best player/players win titles.... KOBE and SHAQ ringing any bells?
You mean shaq, one of only a handful of big men in history that could post an OBPM of +6 meanwhile there is a plethora of guards and wings that can and have. When your only example is shaq then that should tell you something.
 
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