Luka Doncic (pre and post-draft discussion thread)

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sactowndog

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Folsomkingsfan said:
This guys breakdown was awesome. Just want to echo what you said that everyone should watch this if they get a chance. He also earned a subscriber for throwing in that little reference to the Kings being robbed in 02.
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Was that an analysis or a hype tape?

One thing that concerns me is watching the video I only once saw Luka get his hand completely above the rim. And that was a free two footed jump I believe.

I worry he is going to have real trouble finishing against the taller bigger leapers in the NBA. That being said Luka has some real gifts. Buddy and Bogi will get tons of open shots. We won’t be 3rd in three point shooting percentage and 28th in attempts which to me was an indictment of Fox and WCS.

To me his length or not is really important. Sadly like much of this draft it’s unknown to us. Let’s hope Vlade had Luka go back to back with Peja arms extended.
 
sactowndog

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KingsCitizen said:
Looking at the conference finals rosters, the suns could still go for Doncic though. They can field a lineup of Knight/Booker/Doncic/Jackson/Chandler with Doncic’s playmaking making up for Knight’s limitation as playmaker. And Jackson has legit potential to guard both forward positions considering the limited number of old school PF these days.
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I think Luka is a better fit on Pho with Knight, Booker and Jackson. All those players play best off the ball with someone else creating and finding them on cuts and in movement.

The Kings already have Bogdan with a similar game and Fox who isn’t a shooter and plays better with the ball in his hands.
 
sactowndog

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Houdini said:
More I am looking at prospects from draft more I am certain that there is no way Divac passes on Doncic if he is available. Some guys have higher ceiling due to physical tools, but not a single one of them has even close BBIQ and character like Doncic..

With all other guys that are mentioned in top 8 of mock drafts you might get a All Star player or you might get flop.. With Doncic you can not get flop.. he has high BBIQ, he is not cancer in dressing room, and he is prepared to do everything for a team.. that alone is enough so you get at least very good player and I think this is a thing that Divac values more over some other things.. plus European players are usually more loyal, so with Doncic you have more chance to find a player that will spend whole career in one small market like Sacramento is..

Divac is looking for a team players with good dressing room character and Doncic fits that.
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It’s important to take the guy you feel will reach the highest ceiling at 2.

Guys who are “not busts”, “have high character” can be found with the mid level exemption. Tolliver is that kind of guy. This chance is one of our limited chances at a high ceiling. We have to take a swing at it.
 
Hansel

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Simple...
Doncic can be anything from 7 to 10.
All the others anything from 3 to 10.
Tolliver is 4.

Maybe Bagley will be 10 and Doncic stop at 9, who knows? Still a no brainer for me.
 
ockingsfan

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sactowndog said:
I think Luka is a better fit on Pho with Knight, Booker and Jackson. All those players play best off the ball with someone else creating and finding them on cuts and in movement.

The Kings already have Bogdan with a similar game and Fox who isn’t a shooter and plays better with the ball in his hands.
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In Phoenix, Luka would need to be their point guard, because they have Jackson at small forward. That means Luka would need to guard ultra fast point guards, that's not going to work, especially with Booker at shooting guard. Phoenix has no centers and Ayton would be a great fit for Phoenix, he can even help spread the floor.

I disagree that he won't fit with Fox. Fox was never really a playmaker. His strengths were always straight line speed and attacking the basket. Fox's ball handling is excellent, but his court vision is average.

Having someone that can breakdown the defense and then getting him more open looks will only help Fox become a better 3 point shooter. Plus he can get him the ball where he can attack the basket.

Furthermore, while Bogdan has good passing and court vision, Doncic has elite court vision. Doncic will set up his Teammates with more easy looks. I would move Bogdan to the 6th man role to be the primary ball handler in the 2nd unit if we got Doncic.
 
KingsFanSince85

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Hansel said:
I see him as a "great stats few wins" big man. Deja vu.
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That’s because one player can’t win by themselves. The only deja vu during Cousins tenure with the Kings was their inability to draft or acquire competent talent to surround him. Several aren’t even in the league anymore.

Before his season ending injury, we all saw how well Boogie was playing with the likes of AD, Holiday and Rondo. They were looking like one of the top teams. Still did well w/o him because of all the remaining talent, but they looked more formidable with him for sure.

Let’s all hope we’ve bucked the poor lottery draft trend with WCS, Fox, and whomever they land on the 21st.
 
hrdboild

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sactowndog said:
I’m curious if you think that indicates a low basketball IQ? There are no Lebron James in this draft but lots of guys who could be great if.......
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It's hard to say. The people that project him much lower don't think he'll get much better on the defensive end than he is now which seems to indicate poor basketball IQ. I'm undecided at this point because I see enough signs that he can make the right play when he wants to. He isn't a guy who just floats on defense looking lost. There are times when he attacks the ball handler off a pick and roll and smothers them and other times when he watches a guard drive right by him without doing anything. How do you define that exactly? Inconsistent motor? Was college ball so easy for him that he stopped trying from time to time?

From what I can tell, effort is his biggest problem not basketball IQ but then he's had the same reputation for looking fully engaged at times and checked out at others back through high school. It's obviously a concern or we wouldn't be talking about it. If I look at what he can already do on offense though (let's not forget that he dominated the NCAA as a scorer in his first year like few other bigmen have -- he's absolutely elite on that end) and what he's capable of doing on defense when he's locked in (check out the game against Oregon for instance which someone was nice enough to post on YouTube... *) and that to me looks like a talent worth betting on. I would just hope that someone or something can light a fire under him.

*Fair warning: Bill Walton is on commentary.
 
TaxMan

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Joshoua said:
This silly notion of Bogdan and Doncic being similar so it might not fight is one of the worst takes we having going.
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In today’s NBA, you stock up on as many smart, high BBIQ, multi positional, multidimensional players as you can get. Danny Ainge anyone? Brown, Tatum, Hayward....and I think he would add another if he could get his hands on one. The old way of filling out a ‘balanced’ roster just isn’t as important as it used to be. Still need to pick the best player, but zeroing in on the high IQ swing man is where you want to be.
 
J

Joshoua

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TaxMan said:
In today’s NBA, you stock up on as many smart, high BBIQ, multi positional, multidimensional players as you can get. Danny Ainge anyone? Brown, Tatum, Hayward....and I think he would add another if he could get his hands on one. The old way of filling out a ‘balanced’ roster just isn’t as important as it used to be. Still need to pick the best player, but zeroing in on the high IQ swing man is where you want to be.
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Makes no sense how anyone can argue getting multiple high IQ, great passing, shooting wing players. It’s mind boggling like are people that stuck in the past.

And I agree with you on the wings and how Angie built. Fox-Buddy-Bogdan-Doncic-Giles will be a very leather lineup in the future
 
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206Fan

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PHXSUNSFAN said:
I'm not projecting Doncic to be the best NBA player ever, I see him as a more athletic and bigger version of prime Manu Ginobili and that's more than good enough for me.

I see Ayton as the 4th best prospect of this draft IF he hits his ceiling. Jonathon Givony, formerly of DraftExpress, has him ranked as the 7th ranked prospect. The Ringer, Bill Simmons new platform, doesn't have him ranked as the best prospect either. His floor is like Hasheem Thabeet.

Just being better than colossal wastes like Len, Bender and Chriss doesn't make any prospect worthy of a top 3 pick especially in a draft like this one.

He looks great physically and has great size but he's incredibly soft. I've watched most of his games for UoA and his motor is awful. He tries when he feels like it. Took advantage of a ton of weak competition for Arizona this season as well. Most of his dominant games came against players who will never play basketball after college in their lives, they wouldn't even make it in the D League.

And then there's something called defense and rim protection which Mr. Ayton is too prideful to participate in...
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You see Doncic as a more athletic and bigger version of Manu? I just can't agree with the first part. Manu was very athletic. Donic is average at best. So I'm not seeing that at all. 40yearold Manu might have equal hops to Doncic right now.

Jonathan Givony does NOT have him as the 7th ranked prospect. Where do you find this at?? They have him going #1 to the Suns. He is NOT #7 on their big board either. The Ringer doesn't have him at #4 either. They have him at #1 https://nbadraft.theringer.com/?view=deep

The only place that has him low is theStephien which is nowhere near as good as ESPN or the Ringer. Their rankings are not the best imo and looks like they just want to purposely go against the grain. Cole Zwicker didn't like Fox last year. I think he had him around 9 or 10. Said he would even take Monk and Ntilikina over him.

Ayton's motor is completely overblown. I do think defense was a problem, but offense? nope. You don't score 20pts a game on a low motor. Did you want him to demand the ball on every possession? I think you're way too low on Ayton. He dominated college players the same way every other prospect in this draft dominated college players.
 
LPKingsFan

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206Fan said:
Jonathan Givony does NOT have him as the 7th ranked prospect. Where do you find this at?? They have him going #1 to the Suns. He is NOT #7 on their big board either. The Ringer doesn't have him at #4 either. They have him at #1 https://nbadraft.theringer.com/?view=deep

The only place that has him low is theStephien which is nowhere near as good as ESPN or the Ringer. Their rankings are not the best imo and looks like they just want to purposely go against the grain. Cole Zwicker didn't like Fox last year. I think he had him around 9 or 10. Said he would even take Monk and Ntilikina over him.
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I'm not sure why you note the distinction between a big board and a mock draft, and then cite the Ringer's mock draft as evidence of their prospect evaluation, when that's really what a big board is. The Ringer crew ranks Ayton #2 (O'Connor, Chau) or #3 (Tjarks) on their big boards. They all have Doncic #1. They have Ayton 1 on their mock draft, but that's because they expect the Suns to take him #1, not because they think he's a better prospect than Doncic.
 
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206Fan

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LPKingsFan said:
I'm not sure why you note the distinction between a big board and a mock draft, and then cite the Ringer's mock draft as evidence of their prospect evaluation, when that's really what a big board is. The Ringer crew ranks Ayton #2 (O'Connor, Chau) or #3 (Tjarks) on their big boards. They all have Doncic #1. They have Ayton 1 on their mock draft, but that's because they expect the Suns to take him #1, not because they think he's a better prospect than Doncic.
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Now I see the individual rak, so 2/3 have him ranked #2, and 1 has him ranked #3. Well either way, still not #4.
 
H

Houdini

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sactowndog said:
It’s important to take the guy you feel will reach the highest ceiling at 2.

Guys who are “not busts”, “have high character” can be found with the mid level exemption. Tolliver is that kind of guy. This chance is one of our limited chances at a high ceiling. We have to take a swing at it.
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than you take Michael Porter Jr. and hope he will reach his ceiling, that he will not have injuries and that he will not leave Kings for bigger market first opportunity he gets.. but if one out of these three things does not happen Kings will make mistake..

only players on this draft that I see that have bigger ceiling than Doncic are Porter Jr. and Ayton.
 
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Folsomkingsfan

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Houdini said:
I do not rate him very high. he can be good defender and decent pick and pop option but nothing more. he can not be franchise changer..

every draft there are few overhype prospects. Bamba is one of those this year.
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What are you basing this off of? Bamba has the longest reach ever recorded at the combine. He averaged four blocks at Texas and showed enough of a 3 point shot that it's not beyond the realm of possibility that it could develop into a lethal weapon one day. Not saying he is a sure thing, but I have a hard time understanding how someone could look at him and watch his tape and come to the conclusion that this guy can not be a franchise guy.
 
KingsFanSince85

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I recently watched a segment on Bamba where he talks about changing his shot (there's lots of video of him hitting lots of shots well beyond the 3 point line). Apparently he's been working with a renowned shot doctor ---- the same one that worked with Jayson Tatum among others.

Bamba is yet another of these 2018 prospects that really intrigues me. I can easily see a scenario where he ends up as one of the best players from this draft. The kid is very, very bright which can go a long way toward that happening.
 
Suicide King

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KingsFanSince85 said:
I recently watched a segment on Bamba where he talks about changing his shot (there's lots of video of him hitting lots of shots well beyond the 3 point line). Apparently he's been working with a renowned shot doctor ---- the same one that worked with Jayson Tatum among others.

Bamba is yet another of these 2018 prospects that really intrigues me. I can easily see a scenario where he ends up as one of the best players from this draft. The kid is very, very bright which can go a long way toward that happening.
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Thank you

Edit: It should not be about who was right or wrong with their assessment of these prospects, but that we get it right regard;ess. This is huge.
 
J

Joshoua

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KingsFanSince85 said:
I recently watched a segment on Bamba where he talks about changing his shot (there's lots of video of him hitting lots of shots well beyond the 3 point line). Apparently he's been working with a renowned shot doctor ---- the same one that worked with Jayson Tatum among others.

Bamba is yet another of these 2018 prospects that really intrigues me. I can easily see a scenario where he ends up as one of the best players from this draft. The kid is very, very bright which can go a long way toward that happening.
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Must be draft season where people hype themselves and bring out draft video. Kind of like in football when a qb is hyped with he changed his throwing motion. Only to be drafted high and have the same motion in the nfl with no results
 
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