Bizarro Wide World of Sports Lin Championship

[hrdboild]

Tired of hearing about ****ing Philadelphia

We all are but this is just the way it is right now. They tanked hard and now they have one of the brightest futures in the league. In baseball the Astros tanked harder than anyone ever has before-- losing over 100 games three years in a row at the peak of it -- and last year they won their first World Series in franchise history largely because of the elite prospects they were able to accumulate in the draft. And then there's the Browns... we'll see what happens there. Across all of the major sports leagues executives are actively deciding to lose on purpose right now and they're being rewarded with success. That's why we're talking about this. If it didn't work nobody would do it.

Here's what I think teams have figured out. Free agency is almost always a losing endeavor. Two or three teams a year will sign an All Star caliber player for big money and it's a boost for them but the hundreds of other players getting signed (including former All Stars who are past their peak) are all some form of overpaid. People have finally caught on and realized that it doesn't make sense to pay for past performance. Sure you might be getting a guy with a Hall of Fame pedigree to help sell tickets but if they're broken down and declining in performance year to year (I'm looking at you Albert Pujols* 10 years and $250 million) they're not helping you win. And wins sell even more tickets. And jerseys. And TV contracts. That's why the draft is a better way to build. You get young cost-controlled players who are much more likely to out-perform their contracts. Look at how the Kings have spent their free agency money for example. Half the guys we signed were either released, bought out, or traded before they even made it to the end of their contracts. That's the real losing game right now. It's throwing money down the toilet.

This is not new information either. This was all in Moneyball which was published 25 years ago. It's just taken this long for us to see the effect of it across every sports league. Sports are big business and the smartest people in sports right now are not going to leave money on the table because tanking looks bad. If you want a place at the table you have to be prepared to play the game, that's just the way it is. Front office personnel who don't do everything they can to find a competitive advantage are quickly out of a job. It is 100% in their own best interest to milk the system however they can. If we want tanking to change, the rules need to be changed so that losing is no longer rewarded. It's as simple as that.

*(Of course then Shohei Ohtani shows up and rescues the Angels from their own incompetence, but that's a whole other story...)

 

[Tetsujin]

The frustrating thing is the Kings were the first to signal they were going to start tanking by announcing "2 vets will be rested each game" then promptly abandoned that plan and waffled back and forth with tanking while the other tanking teams heard that and committed hard to the tank cause. If we never made that announcement, we very well could be in a top 5 spot right now.

Considering the Kings were struck by the injury bug immediately upon Joerger making the "rest the vets" announcement, that's revisionist history at best (and it's not like the vets have been responsible for all the wins this month unless Willie Cauley-Stein counts as a vet now).

 

[pdxKingsFan]

The thing with Philly is they deliberately tried to finish bottom 3 for 5-7 seasons. It wasn't like they tanked one year for LeBron or something like that. They put out an unbearable product for multiple years and got 3 good players out of it.

I get when you consider that the Kings have sucked for the last dozen, 6 seasons of tanking is great. But the fact is had the Kings not had incompetent, inept, and deliberately bad management in the final years of the Maloofs and the first 2 years of PDA/Mullin we could be better than Portland right now.

 

[Cojc]

Wow another great season! LOL
Even when we were as bad a team as we are now we always had that one great or very good player. Tilsdale, Richman, Cousins, etc. yes it’s nice to be balanced and if we still had the injury prone Cousins we would not of had as many wins this season more than likely.

I will not go over every player but here are my opinions from what I saw.
bogdanovic was a very pleasant surprise and with rest and and hopefully him getting more comfortable with the NBA , well he’s a keeper.

As for Fox he might need a couple of years but we had a different starting point guard for half the season and that plays heavily in my thinking. Point guard is a difficult position to learn and Mason is not the answer.
I maybe wrong on Fox but I believe he will be a very good point guard in this league.

Jackson may turn out to be OK but as a backup.

Unfortunately for me without picking in the top five we will need to be very lucky to have a winning season in the future.

Questions for me are? Is Giles going to make a difference, will someone drop to us in the draft or trade it for someone who is a actual REAL starting player, Can we actually sign a decent free agent?

I could go on but it would just be repeating what everyone has already said.

I am a diehard Kings fan and will continue to watch them

 

[hrdboild]

The thing with Philly is they deliberately tried to finish bottom 3 for 5-7 seasons. It wasn't like they tanked one year for LeBron or something like that. They put out an unbearable product for multiple years and got 3 good players out of it.

I get when you consider that the Kings have sucked for the last dozen, 6 seasons of tanking is great. But the fact is had the Kings not had incompetent, inept, and deliberately bad management in the final years of the Maloofs and the first 2 years of PDA/Mullin we could be better than Portland right now.

This is kindof the point though right? We could have done a lot of things in that period of time that would have made us a competitive team right now. I'm not all that bothered personally that we're the one team in the league that refuses to tank even when it's in our best interest. It's a screwy system -- and there's a good chance we'd lose lottery positioning even if we did tank. But watching other teams pass us in the draft pecking order who have enjoyed success for pretty much the entire time we've been terrible just because they have no shame (Memphis, Dallas) is lame. I'd like to think they'll be punished in some way but they probably won't be. Maybe it's not technically cheating but the commish did warn teams not to do it (rest all their decent players for made up reasons) and they did it anyway.

 

[whozit]

This is kindof the point though right? We could have done a lot of things in that period of time that would have made us a competitive team right now. I'm not all that bothered personally that we're the one team in the league that refuses to tank even when it's in our best interest. It's a screwy system -- and there's a good chance we'd lose lottery positioning even if we did tank. But watching other teams pass us in the draft pecking order who have enjoyed success for pretty much the entire time we've been terrible just because they have no shame (Memphis, Dallas) is lame. I'd like to think they'll be punished in some way but they probably won't be. Maybe it's not technically cheating but the commish did warn teams not to do it (rest all their decent players for made up reasons) and they did it anyway.

In the West, the third seed to ninth seed were only seperated by three wins. Who played whom during the latter part possibly played a role in how seeding lined up. Did the right team get eliminated because of that?

 

[Larry David]

The 76ers stuff is such a false flag. Most of us aren’t saying tank for 3 years. If you are going to suck yet again and they were / did, before the lottery odds change forever, maybe jump off the treadmill of mediocrity for 5 months

 

[King Baller]

The won because other teams let them win. Let see how they do at the start of the year next year. My guess is we will see a repeat of last year where those “promising players” didn’t look so promising facing other top players.

My guess is the Kings win between 36 to 38 games next season as the Team steadily improves.

I am sorry some of you are unhappy that the Young Kings won too many games.

 

[kingsfan1984]

Considering the Kings were struck by the injury bug immediately upon Joerger making the "rest the vets" announcement, that's revisionist history at best (and it's not like the vets have been responsible for all the wins this month unless Willie Cauley-Stein counts as a vet now).

Again, what is your argument? That Joeger's hands were again tied behind his back and he had no options? Are you making the stand that the veterans in the lineup did NOT lead to more wins? Only 5 wins? Less than 5?

Its not "revisionist history." Just because Skal or WCS got hurt we could no longer rest 2 vets? You have noticed the increased mins of Sampson and Cooley havent you? Were they not options?

 

[VF21]

Again, what is your argument? That Joeger's hands were again tied behind his back and he had no options? Are you making the stand that the veterans in the lineup did NOT lead to more wins? Only 5 wins? Less than 5?

Its not "revisionist history." Just because Skal or WCS got hurt we could no longer rest 2 vets? You have noticed the increased mins of Sampson and Cooley havent you? Were they not options?

Two-way players can only be with the "mother team" a certain number of DAYS. So no, they were not always options.

You seem to want to argue that we could have just run the rookies into the ground by playing them excessive minutes so the veterans didn't play. Seriously?

 

[kingsfan1984]

Two-way players can only be with the "mother team" a certain number of DAYS. So no, they were not always options.

You seem to want to argue that we could have just run the rookies into the ground by playing them excessive minutes so the veterans didn't play. Seriously?

Did we use all their days? Seems we have plenty of left and could have used Bruo and Hayes a lot more. Papa and Malachi were available before trade and Bruno after. No game limit there. Barely used those guys. Bruno got less burn than Sampson and id guess Cooley.
How did Memphis, Atl Dal Phx etc have all those G leagers play so many mins? Its not like we have seperate rules.

 

[mac]

Did we use all their days? Seems we have plenty of left and could have used Bruo and Hayes a lot more. Papa and Malachi were available before trade and Bruno after. No game limit there. Barely used those guys. Bruno got less burn than Sampson and id guess Cooley.
How did Memphis, Atl Dal Phx etc have all those G leagers play so many mins? Its not like we have seperate rules.

Those teams also have a lot less young rotation guys than we do.. some of their "g leaguers" are legit on the roster. Memphis can sit Gasol, Conley, Parsons and Evans as vets.. do you really want to be sitting your 1st and 2nd year players who are your core?

 

[burekijogurt]

Well, listening to the season end press conference it seems to me that the Kings did not intend to tank and are not sorry for it. They were using the games to try out different sets and to get more looks at different players. Their plan seems to develop the players, teach them to play the right way, and grow into a winning team. For better or worse.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

That was always the clear plan. And if it weren't for the teams that decided to blatantly tank this season they'd have secured a bottom 3 record.

Those other teams should be ashamed. They won't be, but hopefully 2-3 of them wind up picking 3 spots down from where they expect.

 

[kingsfan1984]

Well, listening to the season end press conference it seems to me that the Kings did not intend to tank and are not sorry for it. They were using the games to try out different sets and to get more looks at different players. Their plan seems to develop the players, teach them to play the right way, and grow into a winning team. For better or worse.

Great point. This is exactly what im saying. For better or for worse, kings were NOT committed to tanking. Joeger was NOT handcuffed into playing Cooley Sampson Hayes Bruno Papa Malachi more mins....he didnt want to chose not to....for better or for worse....thats my point to those posters arguing that we just couldnt play the Gleagers more or the other bench young guys. Joeger was not handcuffed he choose to play the Vets more early in year, mid year, then at end of year didnt want to follow suite with the likes of the bottom dwellers by shutting down Bogs for last 10 games or so.

 

[burekijogurt]

Great point. This is exactly what im saying. For better or for worse, kings were NOT committed to tanking. Joeger was NOT handcuffed into playing Cooley Sampson Hayes Bruno Papa Malachi more mins....he didnt want to chose not to....for better or for worse....thats my point to those posters arguing that we just couldnt play the Gleagers more or the other bench young guys. Joeger was not handcuffed he choose to play the Vets more early in year, mid year, then at end of year didnt want to follow suite with the likes of the bottom dwellers by shutting down Bogs for last 10 games or so.

Thats what it seems to me from that press conference. The decisions about playing time and lineups were made through the prism of developing the players and teaching them how to play.

This type of plan naturally produces a lot of losses, but I guess not as many as an outright tank with fielding the worst team and leaving them to their own devices would have produced.

 

[LPKingsFan]

Thats what it seems to me from that press conference. The decisions about playing time and lineups were made through the prism of developing the players and teaching them how to play.

This type of plan naturally produces a lot of losses, but I guess not as many as an outright tank with fielding the worst team and leaving them to their own devices would have produced.

... or as many losses as benching the kids or playing everyone out of position for no good reason. That's where you lose me. That's where the goalposts have moved from developing the kids to engineering losses. Not even Philly did that (they were "fortunate" that their best kids were injured -- leading to more losses).

Edit to add - I do wish they made better use of the G-league. Sampson is fine, I guess, and Cooley is fun. But it's pretty clear neither is going to be a diamond in the rough, like Philly found with Covington. I did like the Hayes experiment toward the end. There should have been more of that.

 

[kingdivac]

I highly suggest taking a bit of a step back from the Kings. Its been very refreshing and healthy for me at least. Last year I was much more angry with the Kings not losing. But this year creating space and distance has been good. World Cup is thankfully here this year too.

 

[VF21]

Did we use all their days? Seems we have plenty of left and could have used Bruo and Hayes a lot more. Papa and Malachi were available before trade and Bruno after. No game limit there. Barely used those guys. Bruno got less burn than Sampson and id guess Cooley.
How did Memphis, Atl Dal Phx etc have all those G leagers play so many mins? Its not like we have seperate rules.

Their G-league players were not two-way. It's contractual thing. And yes, I believe we used up virtually ALL the days available for both JaKarr and Jack, as travel time is included.

I understand you're upset but your logic is faulty. It's not like we trotted out the veterans at the expense of kids who earned the minutes. You obviously don't agree with Joerger's philosophy but it's kind of silly (isn't it?) to argue like you don't understand it, as I'm pretty sure you do. He's developig the kids by rewarding hard work. Papa G was given multiple opportunities and pretty much all we saw was deer in the headlights. Malachi? Yeah, not even gonna go there. Bruno? He saw minutes and we saw why he didn't get more.

You wanted a full-blown tank and that's not what the front office, the coaching staff and the majority of ticket holders wanted. And it's certainly not what the players were aiming for. You can keep arguing about what they could have done, but it's not going to change what they did. They developed players by using veterans a lot at first and less as time went by. Progress by the kids was rewarded and minutes were doled out accordingly.

I truly think you need to just accept that the path and philosophy they've chosen is not what you would have chosen. All the argument in the world isn't going to change it.

Look forward to the coming draft and the next season. Just my humble opinion, but it's not as dark and hostile as you and some others are taking it. At the end of the day, it's just entertainment after all. I and the others who look from the other side of the looking glass cannot see your POV any more than you can see ours but I think we can all agree we're in a better spot today than we were a year ago. If not, I truly will just agree to disagree and hope you find a way to enjoy the journey as well as the destination.

GO KINGS!

 

[sactowndog]

I’m saying Greens wingspan allows him to play out of position. Bridges wingspan is small now add that to his height and it’s trouble

Not to mention Green can operate as a point forward and Bridges can’t. Bridges is much close to Robinson than Green. If we pick 8 and maybe even 7, the best player available will be a point guard. Given how Fox played maybe it’s not a bad thing.

 

[sactowndog]

Lol. You really want to go back and forth on this?

Of course you can cite players that didn’t work out. They are certainly far more players that don’t make it than do, even those that have tremendous size and length. The point was, someone being undersized doesn’t automatically mean they can’t make it and be productive.

What matters in length as much as height. Everyone else is looking at wingspan 7’ 1” versus 6’ 6”. So your comparison is poor. Of course, size doesn’t automatically disqualify a person if they have the skill. But Bridges doesn’t have the skills and didn’t show improvement in those areas

 

[sactowndog]

According to you. And you might very well be wrong about that. I’m not claiming that you most definitely are wrong because nobody can know that just yet. But you certainly aren’t right yet either.

Why do you think everyone measures and talks about “length” not height? It’s not according to him. He’s pointing out a big difference in how NBA people evaluate size and how you do.

 

[sactowndog]

For what it's worth, I don't think Bruno was available to play last night so you'd still be forced to play at least one of the other young guys, which would probably have still been more than adequate to beat the guys with Rockets jerseys.

Why was he unavailable. They basically rarely played him while every other team was playing the end of their bench.

 

[sactowndog]

Well, listening to the season end press conference it seems to me that the Kings did not intend to tank and are not sorry for it. They were using the games to try out different sets and to get more looks at different players. Their plan seems to develop the players, teach them to play the right way, and grow into a winning team. For better or worse.

True if they were truly trying to tank they would have sat Bogs who was their best player and legitimately needed rest.

The Kings followed an anti-Hinkie strategy. Teams of their caliber won 3-5 Games at the end of the year while the Kings won 9 games almost all against tanking or highly injury depleted teams. We shall see the results of their strategy next year. Vlade and Joeger will go all out with the best players available. Expect to see lots of ZBo, Temple and Shumpert. While I think Vlade’s strategy was foolish and he legitimately has the shortest view in the room he deserves another year to prove his plan.

 

[kingsboi]

I highly suggest taking a bit of a step back from the Kings. Its been very refreshing and healthy for me at least. Last year I was much more angry with the Kings not losing. But this year creating space and distance has been good. World Cup is thankfully here this year too.

best & most popular sporting event in the world, go Deutschland!!

 

[est.1999]

What time is coin flip?

 

[Andriod_KiNg]

Picking 7th most likely, great wins with our young core versus g league line ups.

Can we carry these wins over to next year?

 

[sactowndog]

What time is coin flip?

Word is we lost it. Now we are 7 with a chance for being at 8 or 9 if we get jumped in the lottery.

All for 3-4 meaningless wins in March

@burekijogurt that Memphis and Laker win is looking more and more costly.

 

[The Effort Police]

Picking 7th most likely, great wins with our young core versus g league line ups.

Can we carry these wins over to next year?

We never do.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Word is we lost it. Now we are 7 with a chance for being at 8 or 9 if we get jumped in the lottery.

Now two teams beneath us are going to jump us. I guess we really should have won a few more games then.