Rebuild Strategy (or WE WANT LINS!)

[swisshh]

Skal's advanced stats are some of the best on the team. In spite of holes in his game, he ends up a positive. It just appears as though he's struggling because he gets yanked so fast and, as well, the situations he is put in are not ideal.

For the people frustrated, it's not just about minutes. It's the observation that the youth are types of players with a propensity to a certain type of system, but the system the team is running fits the Vets. It doesn't really matter if Fox or Skal start if they aren't running pick and rolls. These sort of problems make it hard to see if the players are developing or not. Mason had a good run, but has struggled ever since he got his first start and other teams began scouting his drive game.

Are we judging progress by the player adjusting to the system or by the player producing?

People can see Bogie in the PnR game and watch the offense suddenly flourish. Then that aspect goes away when the 5man unit changes. I remember Bogie's first couple of games where had good chemistry with Fox running that bench unit. Then that pairing vanished because of rotations.

For me, there is no reliable baseline for me to judge development and progress.

 

[Joshoua]

Skal's advanced stats are some of the best on the team. In spite of holes in his game, he ends up a positive. It just appears as though he's struggling because he gets yanked so fast and, as well, the situations he is put in are not ideal.

For the people frustrated, it's not just about minutes. It's the observation that the youth are types of players with a propensity to a certain type of system, but the system the team is running fits the Vets. It doesn't really matter if Fox or Skal start if they aren't running pick and rolls. These sort of problems make it hard to see if the players are developing or not. Mason had a good run, but has struggled ever since he got his first start and other teams began scouting his drive game.

Are we judging progress by the player adjusting to the system or by the player producing?

People can see Bogie in the PnR game and watch the offense suddenly flourish. Then that aspect goes away when the 5man unit changes. I remember Bogie's first couple of games where had good chemistry with Fox running that bench unit. Then that pairing vanished because of rotations.

For me, there is no reliable baseline for me to judge development and progress.

Yes to everything

 

[kingsboi]

Skal's advanced stats are some of the best on the team. In spite of holes in his game, he ends up a positive. It just appears as though he's struggling because he gets yanked so fast and, as well, the situations he is put in are not ideal.

For the people frustrated, it's not just about minutes. It's the observation that the youth are types of players with a propensity to a certain type of system, but the system the team is running fits the Vets. It doesn't really matter if Fox or Skal start if they aren't running pick and rolls. These sort of problems make it hard to see if the players are developing or not. Mason had a good run, but has struggled ever since he got his first start and other teams began scouting his drive game.

Are we judging progress by the player adjusting to the system or by the player producing?

People can see Bogie in the PnR game and watch the offense suddenly flourish. Then that aspect goes away when the 5man unit changes. I remember Bogie's first couple of games where had good chemistry with Fox running that bench unit. Then that pairing vanished because of rotations.

For me, there is no reliable baseline for me to judge development and progress.

You, I nor anyone on this forum can accurately judge any of these players because a lot of them are simply not being used to their strengths and rather used as system players and/or spectators.

 

[swisshh]

A shorter way of putting it is that you cannot tell whether they're struggling with the system or struggling with the jump to the NBA.

And you really need to know which it is.

 

[kingsboi]

A shorter way of putting it is that you cannot tell whether they're struggling with the system or struggling with the jump to the NBA.

And you really need to know which it is.

you can look around the NBA and I can give you at least 6-7 rookies who have had really good games from this draft class all ready, showcasing themselves and having freedom to do so while the only rookie that has done anything on the Kings is one that isn't from this draft class.

 

[swisshh]

Mason and Fox have both had good games and good runs.

 

[kingsboi]

show me the stats for their best games so far and let's compare to the other rooks

 

[VF21]

You, I nor anyone on this forum can accurately judge any of these players because a lot of them are simply not being used to their strengths and rather used as system players and/or spectators.

You, I and anyone else can judge the players based on how they're performing. You have to work with what you have. Regardless of what you and others might think, if you have a race horse that you only run in mile races, you judge him on his performance in those races. Some people might think he'd do better in a mile and 1/8, but it's irrelevant unless he actually runs a mile and 1/8.

 

[VF21]

you can look around the NBA and I can give you at least 6-7 rookies who have had really good games from this draft class all ready, showcasing themselves and having freedom to do so while the only rookie that has done anything on the Kings is one that isn't from this draft class.

You're trying to compare apples and pet rocks.

 

[kingsboi]

You, I and anyone else can judge the players based on how they're performing. You have to work with what you have. Regardless of what you and others might think, if you have a race horse that you only run in mile races, you judge him on his performance in those races. Some people might think he'd do better in a mile and 1/8, but it's irrelevant unless he actually runs a mile and 1/8.

You don't garner enough from limited minutes of production. I don't see these players coming in and producing when they are playing random minutes one game and limited to zero the next. Your horse runs a mile and 1/8th because that's all you allow it to, not because you are curious to see how much of a work load it can handle.

 

[kingsboi]

You're trying to compare apples and pet rocks.

Explain...

 

[Joshoua]

Also guys like Fox and Skal need to be played and not benched for mistakes. Look what happened to Kris Dunn when he left Thibs who would bench him a lot now he’s not looking over his shoulder and is exploding in his 2nd year.

 

[VF21]

Explain...

All rookies are not created equal.

 

[VF21]

Also guys like Fox and Skal need to be played and not benched for mistakes. Look what happened to Kris Dunn when he left Thibs who would bench him a lot now he’s not looking over his shoulder and is exploding in his 2nd year.

Ah, but perhaps Dunn is playing well his second year because he learned not to make stupid mistakes his first year. See how that works?

 

[VF21]

Oops. My bad. I promised not to participate in this thread. I was drawn into the dark side...and will now retreat back into the light.

 

[kingsboi]

All rookies are not created equal.

of course not. Some rookies simply have more leash than others.

 

[The Effort Police]

Ah, but perhaps Dunn is playing well his second year because he learned not to make stupid mistakes his first year. See how that works?

No one here knows what goes on behind the scenes so you can make that argument, but that's not the best educated guess here. You can't tell me that with all we know about his coaching habits that Tom f'in Thibodeau was developing Dunn that way and he was all the better for it now. He sure jettisoned him off quickly, didn't he?

If anything, what Joshoua said is far more likely and the more logical guess. All of this is just speculation. If Fox or Skal start playing a lot better post ASB, there will be a lot of handwringing about the merits of bringing them along slowly and Joerger's teaching and yadda yadda yadda. But all that is is confirming preconceived notions, on both sides mind you.

 

[VF21]

No one here knows what goes on behind the scenes so you can make that argument, but that's not the best educated guess here. You can't tell me that with all we know about his coaching habits that Tom f'in Thibodeau was developing Dunn that way and he was all the better for it now. He sure jettisoned him off quickly, didn't he?

If anything, what Joshoua said is far more likely and the more logical guess. All of this is just speculation. If Fox or Skal start playing a lot better post ASB, there will be a lot of handwringing about the merits of bringing them along slowly and Joerger's teaching and yadda yadda yadda. But all that is is confirming preconceived notions, on both sides mind you.

I never claimed it was the best educated guess. But, to reiterate, I promised to stay out of this thread. One of the reasons is because my gast gets flabbered at some of the theories that are espoused. I just tend to view some things in an entirely different light, and at this point I don't see myself changing. So, for my peace of mind and to allow the free-flow of discussion, I just need to agree to disagree and leave it at that.

 

[ESP47]

Last night was good for the tank. A bunch of bottom dweller teams won. It now puts us in a 3 way tie for last place in the west and tied for 3rd overall in the league.

 

[The_Jamal]

Last night was good for the tank. A bunch of bottom dweller teams won. It now puts us in a 3 way tie for last place in the west and tied for 3rd overall in the league.

It really is crazy how important it is we maximize our chances of getting into the top 3 or 4 in this draft. While I like a lot of the mid-late lottery picks (Jackson, Trae, Bridgers, Sexton, etc) none of them have the franchise-altering potential that the top 4 guys have. Add in the fact that the future core that's starting to show out for us (Bogdan, Fox, Buddy, WCS) all would fit pretty damn well next to any of Ayton/Bagley/Doncic/Porter.

 

[biltalent]

It really is crazy how important it is we maximize our chances of getting into the top 3 or 4 in this draft. While I like a lot of the mid-late lottery picks (Jackson, Trae, Bridgers, Sexton, etc) none of them have the franchise-altering potential that the top 4 guys have. Add in the fact that the future core that's starting to show out for us (Bogdan, Fox, Buddy, WCS) all would fit pretty damn well next to any of Ayton/Bagley/Doncic/Porter.

With tonights loss against the Clippers, the Kings are finally were they belong in the standings, that is, they have the third worst record in the league.

 

[King Baller]

Also guys like Fox and Skal need to be played and not benched for mistakes. Look what happened to Kris Dunn when he left Thibs who would bench him a lot now he’s not looking over his shoulder and is exploding in his 2nd year.

Maybe Dunn's rise is more about the "2nd year"?

 

[dude12]

Players in their 2nd year seem to be better than in their first year.......shocking.

 

[kingsfan1984]

Last night was good for the tank. A bunch of bottom dweller teams won. It now puts us in a 3 way tie for last place in the west and tied for 3rd overall in the league.

The Hawks are the only team with a worse roster than us this year. I think they finish 1 and us 2...although id prefer we bench the vets down the stretch or trade them all and give some looks to D league prospects until we are in last place. Then terrible draft luck puts us at number 4 worst case scenario

 

[jcassio]

Don’t we all know that when a handful of other teams start tanking in a serious way, we’ll be picking up wins that will keep us from being first or second worst?
If it’s our youngsters who are responsible for that, then I’ll try not to complain. But if it’s the vets and the coaching staff who are celebrating meaningless wins as the season winds down, I’m gonna be p’d off. We need to develop our youngsters, but we also need a fair chance at drafting a superstar.

 

[ESP47]

Don’t we all know that when a handful of other teams start tanking in a serious way, we’ll be picking up wins that will keep us from being first or second worst?
If it’s our youngsters who are responsible for that, then I’ll try not to complain. But if it’s the vets and the coaching staff who are celebrating meaningless wins as the season winds down, I’m gonna be p’d off. We need to develop our youngsters, but we also need a fair chance at drafting a superstar.

Joerger did wind up resting his vets a lot at the end of the year last year so hopefully he keeps that up when other teams go into full tank mode. Vlade is going to need to make some trades first because we have so many vets, you can't just rest all of them every game.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Don’t we all know that when a handful of other teams start tanking in a serious way, we’ll be picking up wins that will keep us from being first or second worst?
If it’s our youngsters who are responsible for that, then I’ll try not to complain. But if it’s the vets and the coaching staff who are celebrating meaningless wins as the season winds down, I’m gonna be p’d off. We need to develop our youngsters, but we also need a fair chance at drafting a superstar.

Yet somehow we've been allowing those teams to beat us while scrapping out wins against competitive teams (although apparently asterisks are needed for those).

Last year we ran off a few unnecessary victories after the Cousins trade but still wound up losing at a higher clip and slid down the standings as low as we could go pretty much. I expect the same will happen this year. Come on, Joerger and Vlade aren't stupid. And Joerger knows if there's no results next year he'll be on the hot seat because of the lost pick. Vlade pretty much promised he'd quit.

 

[rosa u podne]

Yet somehow we've been allowing those teams to beat us while scrapping out wins against competitive teams (although apparently asterisks are needed for those).

Last year we ran off a few unnecessary victories after the Cousins trade but still wound up losing at a higher clip and slid down the standings as low as we could go pretty much. I expect the same will happen this year. Come on, Joerger and Vlade aren't stupid. And Joerger knows if there's no results next year he'll be on the hot seat because of the lost pick. Vlade pretty much promised he'd quit.

I agree, this video explains substitution pattern by Joerger.

 

[Reverend]

Looks like Memphis is gonna close out the Lakers and add a game lead on us and there we are, tightly seated in the third worst record in the NBA. As long as we are picking top 5 I think we can really make some noise in the draft this year. Whether that be by way of draft or packaging an asset with the pick to either move up or pick up some talent from a team that really likes Young or maybe Bamba. All the while, we are racking up lins and our young talent is showing flashes. What more can we ask?

 

[dude12]

2 vets sitting every game from here on out according to Joerger tonight......this is actually earlier than I thought would happen.