Rebuild Strategy (or WE WANT LINS!)

[jcassio]

I'm hoping we're getting to the point where we can start making trades. Phasing the vets out, playing the kids more, getting more on court development with some more losses added in. Right now the Kings have the worst +/- in the league. So they should be in last place right now but they've won some close games that has them tied for the 5th worst record. I'd like to be in the bottom 3 by the end of the year to give us better odds at landing one of those top 4 guys.

Based on that ranking, I agree with your assessment. ;-)
I'm ready to sign-off on moving two of our vets (basically for future assets). That still leaves us with three vets - enough to play the mentor roles but hopefully not enough to win many games that we shouldn't be winning in a true rebuilding year.
It's still hard for me to endorse overt tanking; in fact, it won't happen. And yet I want us to benefit from a true rebuilding season that means giving the youngsters quality minutes and capping off the season with a top draft pick. Is this too much to ask?

 

[206Fan]

24 yearsold averaging:
22.9minutes: 12.6pts 3.7rebs 1.5asts 1.1stls 1.6tos

45.1 FG%
45.3 3PT%
90 FT%​

Buddy deserves more minutes with his current efficiency. This is the problem when you run into a wall of too many SGs. I hope Vlade tries to deal both Hill and Temple at the deadline. It would make our SG rotation much more manageable.

 

[206Fan]

Where do we want to be for this draft? I keep reading that it’s five deep, meaning that the first five picks are going to be special (as in #1 picks in a typical draft). So I’ve been repeating that I want us to be in the top five. But, admittedly, that isn’t based on research or analysis.
So is the top (bottom) five what we want and need? More recently I’ve seen posters say top three. Others say top six. And then there’s the little issue of your odds of picking where your won/loss record says you should pick. So do we need to finish in the bottom three to virtually guarantee a top five pick? Is there a consensus among the tankers on these two issues?

Right now, there is no one on this team who looks like they have the capability of putting an entire offense on their back and dominating. With that in mind, it means we need to look for someone who can do that in the draft. The number of players with these qualities get shortened to only 5 players imo. In no specific order, they would be Ayton, Doncic, Bagley, Porter Jr, and Young. Bagley is more of a project than the others because he doesn't have the polished skills. However, it's important to consider that he's also a year younger than all of them except Doncic.

This is why it's important for the Kings to get a top pick. I know there are a lot of people who say that Fox is only 20 and Kobe didn't do much in his rookie year. Well, what if we bet on Fox becoming a Cousins-tier player and he completely flames out? Right now, none of the guys have showed the ability to score at a high level. Again, this is why getting a top 5 pick would be key for this franchise moving forward.

 

[kingsboi]

Phoenix won’t be a challenger there getting Booker back and Brooklyn Should do enough. I don’t see us catching Dallas and Atlanta than add in Memphis and Orlando who are in a down word spiral

having Booker back gives them a few more wins but that still doesn't mean they won't end up under 30 wins

 

[ESP47]

24 yearsold averaging:
22.9minutes: 12.6pts 3.7rebs 1.5asts 1.1stls 1.6tos

45.1 FG%
45.3 3PT%
90 FT%​

Buddy deserves more minutes with his current efficiency. This is the problem when you run into a wall of too many SGs. I hope Vlade tries to deal both Hill and Temple at the deadline. It would make our SG rotation much more manageable.

I hope so too. I like all the veterans and this team needs veterans but they need veterans more like Vince Carter and Caron Butler. Guys that can teach the youngsters the game without stealing a bunch of minutes from them. Temple is one of my favorite players and I'll pull for him the rest of his career but at this time on this team, he's kind of a waste of time in my opinion. I'd rather get veterans at the end of their careers that have been there and done that but have no business starting or playing 20+ min a night.

 

[Spike]

I dunno. I saw PapaG last night. He needs more Reno time. There was a sequence (aside from the hook "throws"), where he was running down the lane with his head down, and I think it was Bodganovic, but I could be wrong, was right down the middle of the lane. Had PapaG been paying attention, it could have been a lob attempt. He's still wayy too much of a project. If we're going to develop him, then, fine, send him back down. But I'm not going to watch him attempt to back down someone 10 ft away from the hoop only to clumsily throw up a shot.

I saw some glimpses of players who can easily be rotational guys. I think everyone else has the potential to be at least that. I like Jackson's game. He'll be solid. I don't know about Buddy yet. His ceiling is higher, but I think the Kings might have to give him free run for a few games, just to see if it's there. He lights it up for a few moments, then disappears for stretches. I guess that's a little more from everyone else, though. I'm also hoping that Giles shows some flashes of awesomeness.

The big problem is that we have so many young players in need of development. This team's almost too young to be able to bring everyone along. I think it's because there ARE so many project players. My gut says this year is probably spent evaluating who we should devote that patience and energy to, and some tough cuts will have to be made in the off-season.

 

[kingsboi]

I dunno. I saw PapaG last night. He needs more Reno time. There was a sequence (aside from the hook "throws"), where he was running down the lane with his head down, and I think it was Bodganovic, but I could be wrong, was right down the middle of the lane. Had PapaG been paying attention, it could have been a lob attempt. He's still wayy too much of a project. If we're going to develop him, then, fine, send him back down. But I'm not going to watch him attempt to back down someone 10 ft away from the hoop only to clumsily throw up a shot.

I saw some glimpses of players who can easily be rotational guys. I think everyone else has the potential to be at least that. I like Jackson's game. He'll be solid. I don't know about Buddy yet. His ceiling is higher, but I think the Kings might have to give him free run for a few games, just to see if it's there. He lights it up for a few moments, then disappears for stretches. I guess that's a little more from everyone else, though. I'm also hoping that Giles shows some flashes of awesomeness.

The big problem is that we have so many young players in need of development. This team's almost too young to be able to bring everyone along. I think it's because there ARE so many project players. My gut says this year is probably spent evaluating who we should devote that patience and energy to, and some tough cuts will have to be made in the off-season.

You said it, there are a lot of project players on the roster. That requires patience and if the team feels it's too much of a process or a lost cause, then I'd like to hope they will cut their ties as they see fit. In the mean time, there are only two players on this roster that I'd be willing to give a longer leash to and that's Fox & Giles, the rest are rotation players and some may not even be in the league in a few seasons.

 

[Joshoua]

You said it, there are a lot of project players on the roster. That requires patience and if the team feels it's too much of a process or a lost cause, then I'd like to hope they will cut their ties as they see fit. In the mean time, there are only two players on this roster that I'd be willing to give a longer leash to and that's Fox & Giles, the rest are rotation players and some may not even be in the league in a few seasons.

Buddy, Bogdan, and WCS as well

 

[kingsboi]

Buddy, Bogdan, and WCS as well

Buddy & Bogdan aren't that far off from their ceilings IMO, Trill I can say the same. We have a general idea of what type of role they will have in the league, if not for the Kings, for another team.

 

[kingjatt]

Ball has a much more NBA ready body and has an established elite skill that was going to transition to the NBA day 1. Fox doesn't have one on top of being extremely frail which makes it impossible for him to defend well. Fox has a ton of raw potential and legendary speed. You don't develop those two type of players the same way.

Huh? The same Lonzo that got dominated by Fox just a few months ago now has a much more NBA ready body?? Sorry not buying that.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Huh? The same Lonzo that got dominated by Fox just a few months ago now has a much more NBA ready body?? Sorry not buying that.

Uhm... that's not really how you do the calculus on that evaluation.

 

[swisshh]

Lonzo's body isn't NBA ready yet. It can fill out but a guy like George Hill would push him off his spot. Same for Lowry.

Tyreke's body was NBA ready. Lonzo isn't anywhere close to that right now.

 

[gunks]

Pffft, LeBron can't even beat The Kings.

Loser.

 

[fansinceday1]

After watching joegers rotations up to now, I don't care where we end up in the draft. It doesn't matter. I have zero faith in this coach to bring along any of our young talent.

 

[gunks]

Chicago, Dallas, and (against all odds!) Charlotte won tonight. We lost.

Good night for the tank!

 

[Joshoua]

Chicago, Dallas, and (against all odds!) Charlotte won tonight. We lost.

Good night for the tank!

Chicago is on a roll 10-2 last 12 and Dallas always goes on a wining streak.

 

[ESP47]

Seems like as soon as Mirotic came back, Chicago started rolling.

Markkanen has been impressive and Dunn has taken a big leap forward. Some of you guys wanted him in the offseason and I scoffed at it but I think I'll end up being wrong on that front.

 

[rosa u podne]

I was thinking about how would I approach young players development and tanking. I came to the conclusion, that I would try to make every game competitive, but still loose most of the games, winning just enough to keep confidence of youngsters high enough. That means against good teams, I would try to figure out rotation with the best chance against the opponent. Against bad teams, our tank-a-ton rivals, I would just experiment with young players, combining with veterans who are not very good fit against specific opponent. Isn't it maybe the strategy Joerger applies?

 

[dude12]

A glaring weakness right now for the Kings is the lack of a grown SF. We are physically small in either height and or frame. Need to address that going into next year

 

[fansinceday1]

ive pared down what I personally want to see from this team this season to the most basic of expectations. I don't care about wins and losses at all. Don't even care about the draft. I want to see that we have a competent rebuilding coach. I don't even care about a specific player. I just don't want to see what happened to Skal last night happen to any of our young players again. It's happened multiple times now. Last night was just blatant. Guy performs then sits the rest of the half. Plays another 6-7 minutes and then regardless of how good the player is playing, sits the rest of the game. How does that promote growth? Do joegers wildly erratic rotations instill confidence in anyone here? Do these rigidly timed player rotations make sense to anyone? If I'm wrong I'm willing to accept that. I'd like to hear that what I'm seeing from joeger works.

 

[sactowndog]

For those who are in the anti Lin crowd here are the stats for all-star selections by draft position. For a small market team who can’t sign free agents getting high draft picks are essential.

https://scout.com/nba/mavericks/Boa...l-star-selections-by-draft-position-102419898


Pick 1: 240 selections (16.8% total)

Pick 2: 144 selections (10.1% total)

Pick 3: 134 selections (9.4% total)

Pick 4: 98 selections (6.87% total)

Pick 5: 117 selections (8.2% total)

^by now this is already over half of all All-star selections

Pick 6: 72 selections (5% total)

Pick 7: 36 selections (2.5% total)

Pick 8: 60 selections (4.2% total)

Pick9: 69 selections (4.8% total) Nowitzki and Havlicek account for 26 of these

Pick 10: 55 selections (3.85% total)

Pick 11: 33 selections (2.3% total)

Pick 12: 29 selections (2% total)

Pick 13: 32 selections (2.2% total) Kobe and Malone account for 27 of these

Pick 14: 52 selections (3.6% total)

^ over 82% total in lottery

Pick 15: 11 selections (0.8% total) 7 by Steve Nash

 

[swisshh]

There's a lot of BS and nonsense coming out of local media on what is going on with the Kings. I'd be very wary as a fan. Never trust people who misrepresent their critic's argument. It tells you that they fear people hearing their critics while having no intention to fix the issue.

 

[Larry David]

VF 21, thanks for derailing a good conversation about the pros and cons of the Kings current long term plan into a Lin thread based upon your desire to make the game threads more cheery.

Smh

 

[dude12]

ive pared down what I personally want to see from this team this season to the most basic of expectations. I don't care about wins and losses at all. Don't even care about the draft. I want to see that we have a competent rebuilding coach. I don't even care about a specific player. I just don't want to see what happened to Skal last night happen to any of our young players again. It's happened multiple times now. Last night was just blatant. Guy performs then sits the rest of the half. Plays another 6-7 minutes and then regardless of how good the player is playing, sits the rest of the game. How does that promote growth? Do joegers wildly erratic rotations instill confidence in anyone here? Do these rigidly timed player rotations make sense to anyone? If I'm wrong I'm willing to accept that. I'd like to hear that what I'm seeing from joeger works.

You ask, does Joerger instill confidence here? Yes he does. Don't ignore the fact that Skal has been fairly poor in many facets of the game except for some occasional flashes like last night. Of course last night promotes growth. The way I look at it is I use WCS as a measuring stick. Is he not on a good path and growing as a player? It's said that players 3rd year is when you truly can evaluate a player and I think most have to be happy with where WCS is. I think Joerger develops guys the way he wants and it seems to work.

 

[dude12]

I was thinking about how would I approach young players development and tanking. I came to the conclusion, that I would try to make every game competitive, but still loose most of the games, winning just enough to keep confidence of youngsters high enough. That means against good teams, I would try to figure out rotation with the best chance against the opponent. Against bad teams, our tank-a-ton rivals, I would just experiment with young players, combining with veterans who are not very good fit against specific opponent. Isn't it maybe the strategy Joerger applies?

I think Joerger looks for opportunities to match up the rooks and young guys against other matchups that are easier than going up against a n all-star or poor matchup. Skal starts last night because Chriss starts. He started Mason against the Cavs because he didnt want Mason going against D Wade. Bulls started Calderon so it looked like a better matchup.

 

[gunks]

For those who are in the anti Lin crowd here are the stats for all-star selections by draft position. For a small market team who can’t sign free agents getting high draft picks are essential.

https://scout.com/nba/mavericks/Boa...l-star-selections-by-draft-position-102419898


Pick 1: 240 selections (16.8% total)

Pick 2: 144 selections (10.1% total)

Pick 3: 134 selections (9.4% total)

Pick 4: 98 selections (6.87% total)

Pick 5: 117 selections (8.2% total)

^by now this is already over half of all All-star selections

Pick 6: 72 selections (5% total)

Pick 7: 36 selections (2.5% total)

Pick 8: 60 selections (4.2% total)

Pick9: 69 selections (4.8% total) Nowitzki and Havlicek account for 26 of these

Pick 10: 55 selections (3.85% total)

Pick 11: 33 selections (2.3% total)

Pick 12: 29 selections (2% total)

Pick 13: 32 selections (2.2% total) Kobe and Malone account for 27 of these

Pick 14: 52 selections (3.6% total)

^ over 82% total in lottery

Pick 15: 11 selections (0.8% total) 7 by Steve Nash

Those anti linners don't want to hear it.

Throw in the fact that this is the last season where having a bad record greatly improves lotto odds AND this draft is 5 deep with studs, I don't know how our fellow fans can be so short sighted.

But whatevs. At least we have this thread, and each other!

 

[andjel]

VF 21, thanks for derailing a good conversation about the pros and cons of the Kings current long term plan into a Lin thread based upon your desire to make the game threads more cheery.

Smh

keep shaking

I am very glad that I do not have to read the same stuff about how terrible is to enjoy the game and anything else because all that matters is Lin, and those posts derailing the threads that have nothing to do with it again and again.

 

[rosa u podne]

.

 

[pshn80]

How our rebuild is going:
Vets are doing fine.

Young guys:
Top tier- WCS, Hield, Bogdanovic
Second tier- Mason,
Third tier- Jackson, Richardson,
Fourth tier- Fox, Skal, Papagiannis

They are all progressing, some, the younger, are progressing the slowest.

 

[Larry David]

Teirs above are in terms of how they are playing now, not where you think they end up?