Free Agency Open Thread (NBA and Kings!)

[joemama]

Hill/fox/mason
Hield/bogs/malachi
Porter/temple/jackson
Zbo/skal/giles
Wcs/kosta/papag

I ljke the idea of bogs taking some ball handling pressure off fox and also being a recipient of kick out pass from fox's ability to dribble penetrate.

Skal needs to improve defensively and we would have a solid bench.

Dont want kosta and zbo playing together much

With one more sf we are very balanced.

Too bad moreland got signed i would have liked to see him and sampson as 2way contracts

 

[steelevt]

How is this the perfect year when we have our pick next year but not in '19? How isnt '19 the perfect year?

because we still have our pick next year like you said. Rarely has a team gone from the bottom of the league to playoffs. Especially in the west. If we trend up in wins. It's not likely we make the playoffs but still get a pick. Then the following year we build off of that and maybe get the 7/8 pick when we don't have a pick.

 

[Blastoff]

Player development to me means giving young players time despite their mistakes - like what they did with McClemore.

Not sure if serious.

 

[Blob]

That could only happen if porter demands a sign and trade now.

I don't think porter is coming.

Most likely he informed the Kings and thus they signed hill and ZBo.

The Kings react to the rejection of a SF by signing a PG and PF/C? Just as realistically, this was timed to make the move to SAC more appealing for Otto.

Yeah I'm not a cap nerd so I don't know the details. The Bogdanovich thing I think though may not count as a cap hit the same way UFA or RFAs do.

So maybe we go over the cap a bit to sign Porter.

It would only make sense that the Kings would agree in principle with Bogdan then finalize the contract once our free agent spending spree is over. In fact it would be negligent not to otherwise. This is simply because we can exceed the 99M cap to sign our rights to a rookie player but we cannot exceed 99M to sign a free agent from another team.

Even if you were "a cap nerd" you would not necessarily know the details because we don't know how the deals of Z-Bo and Hill are structured. Before free agency and before counting Bogdan against the cap I think we had 58M to spend. The first year of max deal to Otto I believe is 24.7M. That would mean we would have (58 -24.7) 33.3M to spend on first year salary of Z-Bo and Hill, add Otto, then go over the cap to sign Bogdan. (There is a 20M cushion between cap and luxury tax of 119M. With 9M first year or so to Bogdan, not a problem).

So 2 /24 (Z-Bo) and 3/57 (Hill). Let's assume the money is dispersed evenly annually and that is 12M and 19M in the first year respectively. 31M total (12 + 19) relative to the 33.3M we have and we still have enough to fit Otto.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

The Kings react to the rejection of a SF by signing a PG and PF/C? Just as realistically, this was timed to make the move to SAC more appealing for Otto.


It would only make sense that the Kings would agree in principle with Bogdan then finalize the contract once our free agent spending spree is over. In fact it would be negligent not to otherwise. This is simply because we can exceed the 99M cap to sign our rights to a rookie player but we cannot exceed 99M to sign a free agent from another team.

Even if you were "a cap nerd" you would not necessarily know the details because we don't know how the deals of Z-Bo and Hill are structured. Before free agency and before counting Bogdan against the cap I think we had 58M to spend. The first year of max deal to Otto I believe is 24.7M. That would mean we would have (58 -24.7) 33.3M to spend on first year salary of Z-Bo and Hill total, add Otto, then be able to over the cap to sign Bogdan. (There is a 20M cushion between cap and luxury tax of 119M. With 9M first year or so to Bogdan, not a problem).

So 2 /24 (Z-Bo) and 3/57 (Hill). Let's assume the money is dispersed evenly annually and that is 12M and 19M in the first year respectively. 31M total (12 + 19) relative to the 33.3M we have and we still have enough to fit Otto.

I am not entirely sure how Bogdan's deal works other than we do need to sign it last to maximize space. But NBA rookies do typically cause cap holds so teams at the cap aren't incentivized to skirt the cap by signing them last. I'm not sure how that works when the players don't enter the league right away either by player choice or are intentionally stashed overseas by team decision.

 

[joemama]

I am not entirely sure how Bogdan's deal works other than we do need to sign it last to maximize space. But NBA rookies do typically cause cap holds so teams at the cap aren't incentivized to skirt the cap by signing them last. I'm not sure how that works when the players don't enter the league right away either by player choice or are intentionally stashed overseas by team decision.

Rookie cap holds were increased to 120% as to serve as incenives for teams to sign them sooner during free agency

 

[ockingsfan]

OMFG. Yeah, that whole "player development" experience with Ben McLemore is EXACTLY what I'm talking about. He couldn't have been handled more poorly if they were intentionally trying to sabotage his career.

You give players time when they earn it. And when do they earn it? In practice, when they go all out against the vets and show how hungry they are. You put them into game situations with a "walk before you run" attitude. You reward their successes with more minutes. You have mentors who help them hone their skills.

I definitely agree, when it comes to freshmen coming into the league.

Fox will need time to get stronger before he is ready to take on the big boys full time.

It is different for 3rd or 4th year players like buddy hield. I think Justin Jackson may be more ready for more minutes right away because of his maturity.

 

[DesertFox]

Practice is nice but not the whole picture. You can't evaluate players on practice alone and shouldn't. Young players need bona-fide playing time, and much of it. You can't fully get that in practice. Now if a young player continually makes the same mistakes over-and-over in practice, or a game despite coaching, then yes pull him or restrict him. No substitution for in-game playing time.

I agree the young guys need PT, but they cant just be handed 32 min sink or swim. Give the guys opportunities to be challenged, but too much and they will be overwhelmed. Even last year Joeger picked his spots for the kids to get playing time.

Fox is going to get his. Theres easily 20 min a game available, and his play will dictate how much more. Same with Skal.

Now PapaG, Giles, Mason, and at least one of Jackson/Malachi, they apparently will not be getting PT off the bat. But as we see every year, they will get their chances to show they belong. It's a long season.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Rookie cap holds were increased to 120% as to serve as incenives for teams to sign them sooner during free agency

That is correct - but what about players that don't enter the league in year one?

Off to visit Larry Coon...

 

[joemama]

I definitely agree, when it comes to freshmen coming into the league.

Fox will need time to get stronger before he is ready to take on the big boys full time.

It is different for 3rd or 4th year players like buddy hield. I think Justin Jackson may be more ready for more minutes right away because of his maturity.

Even mason has some serious strength

 

[Blob]

That is correct - but what about players that don't enter the league in year one?

Off to visit Larry Coon...

This is what I found:

If a first round pick signs with a non-NBA team, his scale amount is excluded from the team salary on the date he signs his non-NBA contract or the first day of the regular season, whichever is later. The scale amount goes back onto the team salary on the following July 1 or when his non-NBA contract ends, whichever is earlier. In other words, these cap holds are removed for players playing outside the NBA, but only during the regular season.

I think the hold for 27th pick is 1M dollars or slightly more. I calculated over 2M to spare above so I think we're good.

 

[theclash4u5]

I like the moves, but if we sign CJ Miles and then roll out a starting lineup of...

Hill
Temple
CJ Miles
Z-Bo
KK

Then I'm not going to be very happy

 

[The Hammer]

The Kings react to the rejection of a SF by signing a PG and PF/C? Just as realistically, this was timed to make the move to SAC more appealing for Otto.


It would only make sense that the Kings would agree in principle with Bogdan then finalize the contract once our free agent spending spree is over. In fact it would be negligent not to otherwise. This is simply because we can exceed the 99M cap to sign our rights to a rookie player but we cannot exceed 99M to sign a free agent from another team.

Even if you were "a cap nerd" you would not necessarily know the details because we don't know how the deals of Z-Bo and Hill are structured. Before free agency and before counting Bogdan against the cap I think we had 58M to spend. The first year of max deal to Otto I believe is 24.7M. That would mean we would have (58 -24.7) 33.3M to spend on first year salary of Z-Bo and Hill, add Otto, then go over the cap to sign Bogdan. (There is a 20M cushion between cap and luxury tax of 119M. With 9M first year or so to Bogdan, not a problem).

So 2 /24 (Z-Bo) and 3/57 (Hill). Let's assume the money is dispersed evenly annually and that is 12M and 19M in the first year respectively. 31M total (12 + 19) relative to the 33.3M we have and we still have enough to fit Otto.

Well done. I was just too lazy to type/think this out

 

[Mike]

I like the moves, but if we sign CJ Miles and then roll out a starting lineup of...

Hill
Temple
CJ Miles
Z-Bo
KK

Then I'm not going to be very happy

Agreed. Personally I don't see Temple or KK starting over Buddy and Willie, they'll be starting next season no doubt. I even think Skal will start as well and they'll use Z-Bo in a similar fashion to Memphis. However, it is possible that Hill starts over Fox, CJ Miles over our current SFs, and also possible that Z-Bo starts over Skal. But that shouldn't mean our young players will be starved of development opportunities. They'll get minutes, but under this team they'll have to earn them.

I suppose I can see why some fans want to see us roll out with Fox, Buddy, Jackson, Skal and Willie. But sooner or later we need to start winning more games and building that positive culture that comes with winning. By doing that it will help our youngsters improve and get into good habits, and having capable veterans to help them along that path is a wise move. It's even wise to have a couple of veterans in the starting unit. But we'll see what happens.

 

[King Baller]

Signing Hill and Zbo actually INCREASES the odds that Porter will sign with us.

Think about it.

Indeed, you play the young guys plenty of minutes and close with the Vets. Hill and Zbo are closers and have played for winning teams.

 

[The Hammer]

Agreed. Personally I don't see Temple or KK starting over Buddy and Willie, they'll be starting next season no doubt. I even think Skal will start as well and they'll use Z-Bo in a similar fashion to Memphis. However, it is possible that Hill starts over Fox, CJ Miles over our current SFs, and also possible that Z-Bo starts over Skal. But that shouldn't mean our young players will be starved of development opportunities. They'll get minutes, but under this team they'll have to earn them.

I suppose I can see why some fans want to see us roll out with Fox, Buddy, Jackson, Skal and Willie. But sooner or later we need to start winning more games and building that positive culture that comes with winning. By doing that it will help our youngsters improve and get into good habits, and having capable veterans to help them along that path is a wise move. It's even wise to have a couple of veterans in the starting unit. But we'll see what happens.

If we don't sign Porter, my guess is starters will be:

Hill
Hield
Temple
Skal
WCS

 

[Entity]

Here is how it goes. If fox or skal play better than hill and zbo they get more time if they don't then they keep getting better until they do. Hill and zbo are maxed out talent wise. The youngsters aren't even close. They will get better. Until they are I don't want to see them getting embarrassed out there like skal did a few times last year to the point we had to put an undersized toliver on the floor. I expect some d league play for 2-3 of our youngsters

 

[SLAB]

I like the moves, but if we sign CJ Miles and then roll out a starting lineup of...

Hill
Temple
CJ Miles
Z-Bo
KK

Then I'm not going to be very happy

I will agree with that... But I don't think that's the direction we're getting taken. Especially after how Skal, Buddy, and PapaG came on last season. They're still going to get theirs. They have too. It just won't be handed to them without working for it/earning it.

 

[dude12]

Player development to me means giving young players time despite their mistakes - like what they did with McClemore. Well that may have been an over-abundance of development. It also means opening up and not restricting the bench and rotation. Joerger has a difficult job ahead of him.

If only player development was that easy.....Ben and Stauskas would still be here and Jimmer would be our PG and TRob the starting PF.

 

[joemama]

Adrian Wojnarowski @wojespn
3 minutes ago
Free agent forward Omri Casspi has agreed to a one-year deal with Golden State, league sources tell ESPN.

 

[The Hammer]

Can anyone present an argument that signing two very seasoned vets from great organizations, with a ton of playoff experience, on short contracts, on a team with 9 first or second year players is a bad thing?

 

[theclash4u5]

Adrian Wojnarowski @wojespn
3 minutes ago
Free agent forward Omri Casspi has agreed to a one-year deal with Golden State, league sources tell ESPN.

I want to see Omri get a ring, but ughhhhhhhhhhhh

 

[Kingz19]

Omri turned to the dark side

 

[steelevt]

Can anyone present an argument that signing two very seasoned vets from great organizations, with a ton of playoff experience, on short contracts, on a team with 9 first or second year players is a bad thing?

It's futile, but they will try

 

[Kingz19]

After also drawing interest from the Clippers, Magic and Knicks, Collison said he never heard from his former Kings team. “Nah, I didn’t hear not one time from them; it was a bit disappointing,” Collison told ABC10 on Monday night. “I wanted to stay. I was telling people that regardless of who they draft and what happened, I wanted to stay, I wanted to be part of this process to see this thing through. Didn’t hear from them, not one time, so we had to move on. Time was ticking and we kind of had to make a decision.”

 

[Kingsfan23]

I'm just happy that Porter is still in play as of 7/4/2017, 4:52 pm. The fact that this thing hasn't quickly went back to the Wizards with an agreement means it is still very much in play

 

[The Hammer]

Btw Collison signing for 2/20 with Pacers is a great contract for him. But 10M per for us would have been too much to pay.

The Hill signing is much better.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

This is what I found:

If a first round pick signs with a non-NBA team, his scale amount is excluded from the team salary on the date he signs his non-NBA contract or the first day of the regular season, whichever is later. The scale amount goes back onto the team salary on the following July 1 or when his non-NBA contract ends, whichever is earlier. In other words, these cap holds are removed for players playing outside the NBA, but only during the regular season.

I think the hold for 27th pick is 1M dollars or slightly more. I calculated over 2M to spare above so I think we're good.

Since he's still under contract until we buy him out that would mean no hold

 

[joemama]

David Aldridge @daldridgetnt
2 minutes ago
Four years, $128 million for Gordon Hayward in Boston, per source, with a fourth year player option

 

[joemama]

Gary Washburn@GwashburnGlobe
about 7 minutes ago
Four-year deal for Hayward. Now it's likely Jae Crowder is on the trade market, Atlanta may be his next destination.