Vet free agents and filling out the roster
- Thread starter ovrush
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Why are y'all talking about Tolliver? Didn't rebound. Didn't defend. Hot and cold shooter. Locker room presence is nice but Temple and Koufos fill that role.
Of course we want Otto but let's not fool ourselves. I have been fooling myself but is time to face reality. We are not getting him! The Wizards are at a payroll of 91M before Bojan and Otto. The salary cap is 99M. But luxury tax does not set it until 119M. They can go over the cap to sign their own RFA so the amount of money they have is up to 28M. (119 -91). His first year salary will be about 22-25M. So the Wizards can fit Otto without going into luxury. The Wizards also want to sign Wall to an extension, who has two years left. If they lose Otto or make a bad sign and trade they are screwed. Wall is NOT signing an extension with Wizards if they let Kings sign Otto and they do not match. If they do match we do NOT have the assets OR salaries to send back. What are we going to do package Temple and Koufos?!? Those are the only salaries anywhere near 1st year for Porter. It is impossible Wizards will let Otto walk and dare to have Wall follow. It is impossible for Kings to put together 20M plus in matching salary and talent to send back in a sign and trade.
If we give Otto a max offer on 12:01 AM on July 1 or whenever we are just wasting valuable time!
Bojan Bogdanovic is another story. They cannot sign Porter and him without going into the luxury tax. But Bojan is a one dimensional player. He's a poor man's Ryan Anderson. I like Ryan Anderson for 10-12M. I don't like him for the 60M he is due over the next 3 years. Bojan at hypothetical of 3/45 is exorbitant. He's not enough of an upgrade to justify the cost. Are we going to pay 15M for a guy who just spots up a shoots 3s? No thanks!
Next Gallinari. He's a nice player who I would like. But the Nuggets have almost as much cap space as we do. He's an UFA but I don't seem him as a legitimate candidate to leave Nuggets for Sacramento.
The guy I want to see us go after even if it means an overpay is TONY SNELL. It took a while for this guy to get his act together but he was solid on the Bucks. He's become a 3 and D player entering his prime at 25 years old. I think he's ready to play starting minutes at the SF backed up by Malachi and JJ. I think we may have to overpay but look at the Bucks salary.
The Bucks are at 111M salary for next year. That's over the cap and only 8M from the luxury. That's before signing Snell.
How much is Snell worth? Let's be generous and say 4/50. Now let's front load it. 18/15/10/10 = 4/50 If we structure the deal with $18M in first year that would put the Bucks over the luxury cap by $10M. That would mean their tax would 2.5X or $25 million dollars.
This is what the Kings should do. Target a young guy coming into his own they have a legitimate chance to get who does more than just one skill. Then structure the deal so the team has no choice but to cut him loose.
The other guy I would not mind Mirotic. But the Bulls have a cleaner cap. They are probably going to buy out Wade. The only way to get Mirotic is likely a S&T. Snell can likely be had without giving up anything but cap space.
Of course we want Otto but let's not fool ourselves. I have been fooling myself but is time to face reality. We are not getting him! The Wizards are at a payroll of 91M before Bojan and Otto. The salary cap is 99M. But luxury tax does not set it until 119M. They can go over the cap to sign their own RFA so the amount of money they have is up to 28M. (119 -91). His first year salary will be about 22-25M. So the Wizards can fit Otto without going into luxury. The Wizards also want to sign Wall to an extension, who has two years left. If they lose Otto or make a bad sign and trade they are screwed. Wall is NOT signing an extension with Wizards if they let Kings sign Otto and they do not match. If they do match we do NOT have the assets OR salaries to send back. What are we going to do package Temple and Koufos?!? Those are the only salaries anywhere near 1st year for Porter. It is impossible Wizards will let Otto walk and dare to have Wall follow. It is impossible for Kings to put together 20M plus in matching salary and talent to send back in a sign and trade.
If we give Otto a max offer on 12:01 AM on July 1 or whenever we are just wasting valuable time!
Bojan Bogdanovic is another story. They cannot sign Porter and him without going into the luxury tax. But Bojan is a one dimensional player. He's a poor man's Ryan Anderson. I like Ryan Anderson for 10-12M. I don't like him for the 60M he is due over the next 3 years. Bojan at hypothetical of 3/45 is exorbitant. He's not enough of an upgrade to justify the cost. Are we going to pay 15M for a guy who just spots up a shoots 3s? No thanks!
Next Gallinari. He's a nice player who I would like. But the Nuggets have almost as much cap space as we do. He's an UFA but I don't seem him as a legitimate candidate to leave Nuggets for Sacramento.
The guy I want to see us go after even if it means an overpay is TONY SNELL. It took a while for this guy to get his act together but he was solid on the Bucks. He's become a 3 and D player entering his prime at 25 years old. I think he's ready to play starting minutes at the SF backed up by Malachi and JJ. I think we may have to overpay but look at the Bucks salary.
The Bucks are at 111M salary for next year. That's over the cap and only 8M from the luxury. That's before signing Snell.
How much is Snell worth? Let's be generous and say 4/50. Now let's front load it. 18/15/10/10 = 4/50 If we structure the deal with $18M in first year that would put the Bucks over the luxury cap by $10M. That would mean their tax would 2.5X or $25 million dollars.
This is what the Kings should do. Target a young guy coming into his own they have a legitimate chance to get who does more than just one skill. Then structure the deal so the team has no choice but to cut him loose.The other guy I would not mind Mirotic. But the Bulls have a cleaner cap. They are probably going to buy out Wade. The only way to get Mirotic is likely a S&T. Snell can likely be had without giving up anything but cap space.
Williams is one of the players on my list. He had a very good year last year and looks to have potential. In 23 minutes a game for Houston he averaged 9.7 ppg, shot 50.0% overall, and 38.1% from the three. He also averaged 4 boards a game. And, as you said, he's only 22 years old. It would make for some good competition between him and Jackson.
I think Joerger wants to win while bringing along the young guys and maybe more realistically, he wants the Kings to be in every game so that the youngsters get meaningful minutes. Something that sticks with me from last year was when Malachi got burn for one of the first times and had some good moments and everyone is excited, Joerger was "meh" because it came in extended garbage time. This guy gets it, was a good lesson for me as a fan.
So a guy like Millsap makes no sense because by the time the young guys are up to speed, he's 2 years older and possibly declining. The only good thing about a guy like Millsap, is he would keep us in games and make us more competitive.....meaning, more meaningful minutes......so yeah, I expect us to get a starting SF and a fairly good PG who can allow Fox and Mason to grow into bigger roles.
So a guy like Millsap makes no sense because by the time the young guys are up to speed, he's 2 years older and possibly declining. The only good thing about a guy like Millsap, is he would keep us in games and make us more competitive.....meaning, more meaningful minutes......so yeah, I expect us to get a starting SF and a fairly good PG who can allow Fox and Mason to grow into bigger roles.
Tyreke Evans...... Positional flexibility between Pg and SF. If Fox or Mason are going well in games he moves to SF and still gt minutes. If the pups are overmatched or not going well, Reke takes PG minutes. I'd definitely be signing a good solid starting SF too, but I feel like Reke could be good here
I honestly don't know what he's worth on the open market. He is a restricted free agent, so if you wanted him, you'd have to offer enough to make the Bucks back off. He had his best year so far last season shooting 40% from the three and 45.5% overall. It was his fourth year in the league, so it's not unusual to see a player break out with his best year in either his third or fourth year in the league. One thing about Snell is that he's a good defender. He has an excellent defensive ratting. He's certainly not my first choice, but I wouldn't turn my nose up at him. It would depend on the cost.
I'd still much rather have Joe Ingles, C.J. Miles, or even Troy Williams.
I'd still much rather have Joe Ingles, C.J. Miles, or even Troy Williams.
After the Porter offer and Bogs - Wait for the desperate team to give us a player salary dump along with a Good first Round 2018 or 2019 pick!!
Once we have that player , then fill in SF,PG or PF from whats left in FA or Summer league
Maybe even stop at 14 players to take on a contract later
We already let Tolliver and AA go without using them for bad contracts
Our biggest asset right now may be our Cap Space-
We really do not need to have 3 more players - Temple can play 1 or 3 if needed
Malachi could play 2 or 3
Any backup at SF 5-10 mil will work fine, can compete with JJ
Any cheap PG to mentor or be a 2-3rd PG is fine
We got Lawson last yr for 1 mil!!
Get a Summer league guy cheap for PF
Keep that extra cap space right up to the trade deadline
Once we have that player , then fill in SF,PG or PF from whats left in FA or Summer league
Maybe even stop at 14 players to take on a contract later
We already let Tolliver and AA go without using them for bad contracts
Our biggest asset right now may be our Cap Space-
We really do not need to have 3 more players - Temple can play 1 or 3 if needed
Malachi could play 2 or 3
Any backup at SF 5-10 mil will work fine, can compete with JJ
Any cheap PG to mentor or be a 2-3rd PG is fine
We got Lawson last yr for 1 mil!!
Get a Summer league guy cheap for PF
Keep that extra cap space right up to the trade deadline
For now I'm assuming we can't get Porter, asking price for Beverly is too much.
Real simple off season for me.
1. Sign Bogdan
2. Throw an offer at Troy Williams because I don't see Houston matching with their desire to save cap space.
3. Sign Beno to a small deal
I know "exciting" but I'd be patiently awaiting bad salary for assets later in FA or before the deadline.
Real simple off season for me.
1. Sign Bogdan
2. Throw an offer at Troy Williams because I don't see Houston matching with their desire to save cap space.
3. Sign Beno to a small deal
I know "exciting" but I'd be patiently awaiting bad salary for assets later in FA or before the deadline.
With Fox as your major building block then you want to provide him with as much spacing as possible to allow him to beat him man off the dribble going to the hoop.
Skal has been working on his 3 Pt shot for a while now and I would expect to see a fair bit of pick and pop with Fox ad Skal next season.
I am not a fan of Gallinari for a couple of reasons. He is not in the right age bracket to spend the big money on (needs to be 3-4 years younger) and he continues to break down which will only get worse from here on in as the wear and tear on his body all these years catches up with him. As someone mentioned, he is transitioning more into a PF these days than a SF.
I like Collison but I am not sure there will be enough minutes for Fox, Collison and Mason so a lower level veteran makes more sense. Someone like Shelvin Mack would be just about perfect here. Can start, can come off the bench and can be a DNP-CD. Either way that is the type of player we should be looking at.
In a perfect world, Porter Jr. would be a great signing at SF. Young enough (24) to grow with the team and be a key player when the team becomes good again. I do believe that Wizards would match so my next target would be Joe Ingles. Can play multiple positions, defends well and is a great veteran and a glue guy to have on a young team.
As a stretch 4 I do like Patrick Paterson quite a bit for this team. Can start, or come off the bench and will stretch the floor. Also a good locker room guy and another former Kentucky player on the roster.
Skal has been working on his 3 Pt shot for a while now and I would expect to see a fair bit of pick and pop with Fox ad Skal next season.
I am not a fan of Gallinari for a couple of reasons. He is not in the right age bracket to spend the big money on (needs to be 3-4 years younger) and he continues to break down which will only get worse from here on in as the wear and tear on his body all these years catches up with him. As someone mentioned, he is transitioning more into a PF these days than a SF.
I like Collison but I am not sure there will be enough minutes for Fox, Collison and Mason so a lower level veteran makes more sense. Someone like Shelvin Mack would be just about perfect here. Can start, can come off the bench and can be a DNP-CD. Either way that is the type of player we should be looking at.
In a perfect world, Porter Jr. would be a great signing at SF. Young enough (24) to grow with the team and be a key player when the team becomes good again. I do believe that Wizards would match so my next target would be Joe Ingles. Can play multiple positions, defends well and is a great veteran and a glue guy to have on a young team.
As a stretch 4 I do like Patrick Paterson quite a bit for this team. Can start, or come off the bench and will stretch the floor. Also a good locker room guy and another former Kentucky player on the roster.
23.8 yearold Alex Poythress? 6'8 230lb SF/PF.
In 46 games in the GL he put up: 18.5pts/7.1rebs/1.5asts/0.7stls/1.4blks/2.7tos on 52.7/40.3/78.3 (low 3PA, 1.7 per game).
In 6 games with Philly, he put up: 10.7pts/4.8rebs/0.8asts/0.5stls on 46.4/31.6/80 (3PA, 3.2 per game).
He's worked really hard on his 3pt shot as indicated by the shooting numbers. Went from a non-shooter, to a below average shooter.
In 46 games in the GL he put up: 18.5pts/7.1rebs/1.5asts/0.7stls/1.4blks/2.7tos on 52.7/40.3/78.3 (low 3PA, 1.7 per game).
In 6 games with Philly, he put up: 10.7pts/4.8rebs/0.8asts/0.5stls on 46.4/31.6/80 (3PA, 3.2 per game).
He's worked really hard on his 3pt shot as indicated by the shooting numbers. Went from a non-shooter, to a below average shooter.
We have no business going after an old talented vet. Milsap, Teague, Gallinari would have been great if Cousins was still here but makes absolutely no sense now. Puts us right back on the treadmil in that dreaded zone where our ceiling is the 8th seed and floor the 8th pick. No thank you.
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Depends what you're after. If it's championship or bust then you might be right. The only way to win a championship might very well be having the number one overall pick in a LeBron James year. The odds of that are long but so are the odds of winning a title.
It's not title or bust for me however... I just want to be entertained. Post DeMarcus was entertaining last year. I could do more "good" losing if the young players are showing out and developing as we go. But that wasn't the case in Philly... That was a brutal few years there. Last year finally showed some promise but even then embid couldn't stay healthy and Simmons was out all year. I'd rather avoid that type of rebuild going forward if it can be helped.
Signing the best players we can is my favorite course of action. Millsap would be great if we could get him for three years instead of four. Porter, Gallinari, Snell, Milos... Any of those guys would be solid signings imo.
The Spurs rebuilt on the fly without one down season or high draft pick. The grizzlies are a perennial playoff team without any transcendent stars. Our great teams of the early 2000's didn't have a bunch of top three picks.
Bottom line is we don't have to go the sixers route to ever be relevant again. We have seven 1st round picks from the last two years on this team... Plenty of darts thrown at the board. If one or two are bullseye's it's not gonna matter where we're picking next year. Let's be smart in free agency and sign the best players we can to contracts that make sense. And let's win as many games as we can going forward.
It's not title or bust for me however... I just want to be entertained. Post DeMarcus was entertaining last year. I could do more "good" losing if the young players are showing out and developing as we go. But that wasn't the case in Philly... That was a brutal few years there. Last year finally showed some promise but even then embid couldn't stay healthy and Simmons was out all year. I'd rather avoid that type of rebuild going forward if it can be helped.
Signing the best players we can is my favorite course of action. Millsap would be great if we could get him for three years instead of four. Porter, Gallinari, Snell, Milos... Any of those guys would be solid signings imo.
The Spurs rebuilt on the fly without one down season or high draft pick. The grizzlies are a perennial playoff team without any transcendent stars. Our great teams of the early 2000's didn't have a bunch of top three picks.
Bottom line is we don't have to go the sixers route to ever be relevant again. We have seven 1st round picks from the last two years on this team... Plenty of darts thrown at the board. If one or two are bullseye's it's not gonna matter where we're picking next year. Let's be smart in free agency and sign the best players we can to contracts that make sense. And let's win as many games as we can going forward.
There are a lot of intriguing possibilities this FA, Reggie Bullock might be a good get, MCW could be a interesting prospect for a defensive PG/distributor. Ibaka would be a huge get for a couple of years but unlikely, still though there's some solid options out there for stopgaps
http://www.spotrac.com/nba/free-agents/
http://www.spotrac.com/nba/free-agents/
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I don't understand this thinking at all. You do not do any favors to our rookie PGs if you don't get them veteran PG to ease the burden and be capable of playing minutes when inevitable struggles arise. You are not doing any favors to Skal if you don't give him a veteran teammate (preferably stretch 4) who can split minutes with him and take pressure off kid to produce at high level for 30-35 MPG. As Fox and Mason and Skal strut their stuff their roles and MPG will expand. Until then you need options. The coach need options. You undermine your coach if you only give him two scrubs in free agency. We have a lot of talent up and down our roster but we need capable veterans to complement the youth and inexperience. And I have not even mentioned we do not have a capable starting SF on our roster! It is unfair to tell Jackson Malachi or Temple to go guard Durant among other long wings.
Our coach knows how to bring along young players at the proper pace. He showed so with Willie, Skal and Papa G. But he has to have veteran options at his disposal to disperse playing time against specific match-ups to bring along all these young players at the right pace for maximum success. Like I said we saw what happens when a young player is given too much too soon with guys like Ben McLemore and Emmanuel Mudiay. Maybe they were never going to succeed but they were put into situations that almost assured their demise. I think a few fans may be in fear mode based on bad signings that get most of media play and stick out due to how prohibitive they have become for teams that made these overpaying mistakes. But you cannot operate from a place of fear and hope to be successful. There are opportunities out there for the astute GM to shore up positions of need and to do so with fiscal responsibility. Those opportunities will amount to a lot more than Beno and Troy Williams.
Our coach knows how to bring along young players at the proper pace. He showed so with Willie, Skal and Papa G. But he has to have veteran options at his disposal to disperse playing time against specific match-ups to bring along all these young players at the right pace for maximum success. Like I said we saw what happens when a young player is given too much too soon with guys like Ben McLemore and Emmanuel Mudiay. Maybe they were never going to succeed but they were put into situations that almost assured their demise. I think a few fans may be in fear mode based on bad signings that get most of media play and stick out due to how prohibitive they have become for teams that made these overpaying mistakes. But you cannot operate from a place of fear and hope to be successful. There are opportunities out there for the astute GM to shore up positions of need and to do so with fiscal responsibility. Those opportunities will amount to a lot more than Beno and Troy Williams.
How much do we have to spend? 54 mil on 4 roster spots (3 if Bogdan comes over)? I am hoping that when (not if) we overpay someone it's only a two year contract with a team option second year. I have a feeling we will be giving 15 mil to someone that doesn't deserve it. I have a feeling that a couple of those spots will be going to an old talented vet. We have to spend the cash.. Unless we make a trade and take on some terrible salaries?
Portland is reported by Hoopshype to be about 11 million into the luxury tax, before signing the rookies. They would owe $20+ mil in luxury tax.
The Kings can fill two holes with one trade with veteran SF Moe Harkless (3 years at 10 mil/yr) and PF Ed Davis (1 year left at 6.3 mil). The Kings should be able to get a 1st round pick in 2018 or 2019 from Portland for their cap space.
Portland would get out of salary cap hell with this trade.
The Kings would fill two spots that need help. A plug in 3 and D SF (Harkless) and a backup PF (Davis), and get a future 1st rounder, without having to tie up more than 10 mil/year in salary, after this year.
The Kings can fill two holes with one trade with veteran SF Moe Harkless (3 years at 10 mil/yr) and PF Ed Davis (1 year left at 6.3 mil). The Kings should be able to get a 1st round pick in 2018 or 2019 from Portland for their cap space.
Portland would get out of salary cap hell with this trade.
The Kings would fill two spots that need help. A plug in 3 and D SF (Harkless) and a backup PF (Davis), and get a future 1st rounder, without having to tie up more than 10 mil/year in salary, after this year.
"But you cannot operate from a place of fear and hope to be successful."
Well I'm not afraid at all.
I'm being logical.
I want to see the kids as much as possible, and acquire every asset I can, while getting the best pick I can.
After a year of observation of what we have to work with here, and not having our own pick in 2019. I'm open to other investments.
So while you tread a little water doing it your way....I'll cash in and use those assets for something better later. Maybe a veteran to a team looking for youth/picks.
Maybe some of our guys don't pan out so I'd use a pick.
Well I'm not afraid at all.
I'm being logical.
I want to see the kids as much as possible, and acquire every asset I can, while getting the best pick I can.
After a year of observation of what we have to work with here, and not having our own pick in 2019. I'm open to other investments.
So while you tread a little water doing it your way....I'll cash in and use those assets for something better later. Maybe a veteran to a team looking for youth/picks.
Maybe some of our guys don't pan out so I'd use a pick.
No, its not a championship or bust. Its about becoming a sustainable succesfull franchise. Its about becoming a team like Memphis or getting to the place where playoffs is realistic for many years. To build the team the way that you have the flexibility to manover when your players either decline or become too expensive and still remain competitive.
For example if we decided to take your route and sign Snell, Gallo, Vet pg, it would mean that we wouldnt be in realistic playoff contetion with those players but we would be capped out. We would draft at 8 so most likely wouldnt get a franchise player. When this offseasons vet signings would expire, we would be in the situation where at the same time we'd have to extend Buddy, Malachi, Skal, Wcs and year after Fox, JJ, Giles, and then year after our hypothetic 8th pick.
That would eat up a lot of space so it means that we wouldnt have room improve beyond what our core provides. We would be stuck with our current core with little ways to add to it.
This is the perfect opportunity to gather assets for the future which gives us more opportunities to improve even after our current core would need extentions. By being patient for only one year and not trying to "win now" we would get a very good draft pick, a possible franchise player. It would give us a way to really explore that which of our rookies are a part of our future core and worth an extention. It would give us an opportunity to build our franchise the way that we have a core thats capapble to getting to the playoffs and the playoffs year after year could be sustainable. No one is talking about going full Hinkie. Its ONE YEAR. You guys need to be able to suck it up and watch a season with 24 wins. It really is lot smarter than having another crapty 32 win team with no flexibility. One year for the smart direction. Its not too much to ask.
For example if we decided to take your route and sign Snell, Gallo, Vet pg, it would mean that we wouldnt be in realistic playoff contetion with those players but we would be capped out. We would draft at 8 so most likely wouldnt get a franchise player. When this offseasons vet signings would expire, we would be in the situation where at the same time we'd have to extend Buddy, Malachi, Skal, Wcs and year after Fox, JJ, Giles, and then year after our hypothetic 8th pick.
That would eat up a lot of space so it means that we wouldnt have room improve beyond what our core provides. We would be stuck with our current core with little ways to add to it.
This is the perfect opportunity to gather assets for the future which gives us more opportunities to improve even after our current core would need extentions. By being patient for only one year and not trying to "win now" we would get a very good draft pick, a possible franchise player. It would give us a way to really explore that which of our rookies are a part of our future core and worth an extention. It would give us an opportunity to build our franchise the way that we have a core thats capapble to getting to the playoffs and the playoffs year after year could be sustainable. No one is talking about going full Hinkie. Its ONE YEAR. You guys need to be able to suck it up and watch a season with 24 wins. It really is lot smarter than having another crapty 32 win team with no flexibility. One year for the smart direction. Its not too much to ask.
Based upon the standings from this year. Twenty-four wins would be the tied for the third(second) worse record in basketball allowing the Kings to pick anywhere between the first and sixth pick. This year was an deviation from the Kings' historical norm when it comes to the draft. They went up rather than being bumped back. Worse case scenario, they are picking sixth and then where are you?
At some point you have to turn the corner. There is a difference between being a middling team with bad contracts and no flexibility and a "middling" team that is full of youth allowing for flexibility. If we pick at eight because the kids overachieve with the assistance of a couple of acquired vets that could be part of the future, what is there to complain about? They would be beginning their upwards trajectory.
At some point you have to turn the corner. There is a difference between being a middling team with bad contracts and no flexibility and a "middling" team that is full of youth allowing for flexibility. If we pick at eight because the kids overachieve with the assistance of a couple of acquired vets that could be part of the future, what is there to complain about? They would be beginning their upwards trajectory.
As far as I'm concerned we've jockeyed for enough lottery picks. Let's go. I'd like to see a competitive team. No more Collison, Lawson, Patterson types. We need above average players. If Milsap, Gugliotta Porter, Teodosic, Roberson are the best guys out there let's try to get them and mix them with our 8 young guys we already have.
No more strategizing for the lotto. Geez.
No more strategizing for the lotto. Geez.