Vet free agents and filling out the roster

pdxKingsFan

pdxKingsFan

So Ordinary That It's Truly Quite Extraordinary
Staff member
#32
#32
Until you actually win all the potential in the world means nothing. Cousins and Reke and IT had tons of talent and potential. Roy/Oden/Aldridge had a ~.806 winning percentage when on the court together. Philly's future looks bright but at the moment they have zero to show for it with no guarantees.
 
gunks

gunks

Hall of Famer
#33
#33
Noble said:
Bring back DC and sign Gallinari and just roll with that
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I like this. Gallinari isn't going to win us any games himself. He's a good 2nd/3rd option.

We suck for one more season. Fox and friends get valuable playing time. Nail next year's draft pick. Go all out in FA next summer. Give Philly a garbage pick in '19 as we compete for the playoffs
 
G

Gguod

Bench
#34
#34
pdxKingsFan said:
Until you actually win all the potential in the world means nothing. Cousins and Reke and IT had tons of talent and potential. Roy/Oden/Aldridge had a ~.806 winning percentage when on the court together. Philly's future looks bright but at the moment they have zero to show for it with no guarantees.
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Jesus.. Philly has lots of talent, lots of flexibility. Odds of them becoming a succesfull franchise are lot bigger than ours. Thats just math. Anything can happen but rational person allways chooses the situation with the best odds to succeed.

Only positive thing from trying to "win now" in free agency is that it would be more fun for you to watch team that wins 33 games instead of 24. I really dont see how thats worth taking a path that has significantly lower odds for us to become a sustainable succesfull franchise in the future. Because remember this, we dont have a pick in '19. If we cap out this year, mess up our draft position, then this is our core. If we are patient, we gain assets, we give ourself good odds to pick a great player in draft, and then put it together in '19 with way better core than "win now" moves this offseason would allow us
 
DesertFox

DesertFox

Starter
#35
#35
Kingster said:
Even though I would love to get Porter, I really think the most important FA will be a point guard who is very brainy and can teach the youngins how the game should be played from all standpoints. PG in the NBA is a tough, tough position to play for a rookie and there really needs to be a special mentor for both Fox and Mason. I like the idea of either Beverly or Mills, but would be open to suggestions. Collison is the fallback. I don't particularly like Lawson for this role because of his past history.
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Jose Calderon, Beno Udrih, Ronnie Price, Norris Cole. Guys with experience who can play spot minutes, but won't be in high demand.

If they are looking for a chance to play, they have a chance to compete with Frank Mason for backup minutes.

Ideally, they start out the season playing 10 min a night as the kids adjust, then gradually end the season as strictly bench mentors.
 
pdxKingsFan

pdxKingsFan

So Ordinary That It's Truly Quite Extraordinary
Staff member
#36
#36
Gguod said:
Jesus.. Philly has lots of talent, lots of flexibility. Odds of them becoming a succesfull franchise are lot bigger than ours. Thats just math. Anything can happen but rational person allways chooses the situation with the best odds to succeed.
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I'm not saying that they don't look to have a bright future, I'm just saying that given the extreme measures they went to do you keep saying "trust the process" if they keep picking top 3 year in year out? The process should have paid off by now. They've missed on as many picks as they've hit. They are not a shining example of how to rebuild a franchise.

In the same time frame Boston completely dumped the Big 3, built a defensive juggernaut around IT, reached the conference finals, had the top pick in this year's draft, likely has two top 5 picks next season, and is in talks to acquire Gordon Hayward and Paul George.
 
Telemachus

Telemachus

Starter
#37
#37
pdxKingsFan said:
Until you actually win all the potential in the world means nothing. Cousins and Reke and IT had tons of talent and potential. Roy/Oden/Aldridge had a ~.806 winning percentage when on the court together. Philly's future looks bright but at the moment they have zero to show for it with no guarantees.
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A lot of Philly's future success depends on Embiid and Simmons. Both have been injury prone so far.
 
Section 101

Section 101

All-Star
#38
#38
Ozymandias said:
Gallinari or Otto Porter would be major hauls..

Joe Ingles would be way better than many would probably expect, JaMychal Green and Kentavious Caldwell-Pope too.

Patty Mills and Andre Iguodala seem like nice fits.

If the price is right I like; Terrence Jones, Dion Waiters, Nikola Mirotic, Shaun Livingston, Kelly Olynyk, James Johnson, Tyreke Evans, Patrick Patterson and Jonathan Simmons, Alex Len, Darren Collison, Ty Lawson, Michael Beasley, Alan Williams, Montiejunas, Ben McLemore, Shelvin Mack, Luke Babbit, Mike Muscala, Troy Williams, Jodie Meeks, James Young, Jeff Withey, Christian Wood, Alex Poythress.


From overseas there's also Teodosic, Vesely, Udoh and Edwin Jackson.

Thats pretty much much my list, probably missing a few, will update when I figure it out.

Also the doesn't include UDFA's I can tell you for sure that Cameron Oliver is my top choice from that pool, followed by Devin Robinson.
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Cross Pope off. Just got 2 game NBA suspension for DUI. Kings don't need that drama.
 
D

dude12

Hall of Famer
#39
#39
Tempted to want Sac not to sign a vet PG and let Fox and Mason just battle it out with Temple and Bogdanovich able to help in running the show. Ideal to let them learn from a vet but quite frankly, a vet would eliminate any playing time for Mason. I trust this coaching staff to be able to teach these 2 young guys and these are pure PGs. Mason has been a 3 year starter in a major program. These guys will have an idea.

I'd sign 2 SF's with 1 of them being able to play a stretch 4 and then I'd keep the last spot open or have a guy on a 1 year deal so that we can run some guys out there on 10 day contracts later in the year.
 
G

Gguod

Bench
#40
#40
pdxKingsFan said:
I'm not saying that they don't look to have a bright future, I'm just saying that given the extreme measures they went to do you keep saying "trust the process" if they keep picking top 3 year in year out? The process should have paid off by now. They've missed on as many picks as they've hit. They are not a shining example of how to rebuild a franchise.

In the same time frame Boston completely dumped the Big 3, built a defensive juggernaut around IT, reached the conference finals, had the top pick in this year's draft, likely has two top 5 picks next season, and is in talks to acquire Gordon Hayward and Paul George.
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Thats the thing with tanking and drafting. You dont allways hit with every pick but you give yourself the best odds to add a superstar into your team. I simply want Kings to give themselves and us the fans the best possible odds to succes. No real franchise player are going to sign us via free agency so we need to put ourselves in the best possible position to get one in order to really be succesfull. And that ihappens by drafting high and having cap space to turn into assets.

The situation was different when Cuz was here. We kind of had a franchise caliber player and win now moves were justifiable since we needed to keep Cuz happy and we had legitimate chance to getting to the playoffs. Plus the franchise had a horrible reputation so gettin to the playoffs would've been helpfull to change that. But now we are in a GREAT position to do a quick rebuild. We have allready changed the culture, we have a great coach, we have team with lots of young players and players with good contracts and a lot of cap space. We just don have that franchise player. In order to get it we need to develope our young core in hopes of that some of those takes s big leap, give ourselves a good draft position to draft that guy and keep the cap space so he could be gotten ether in next years free agency or with assets that wr get by utilizing our cap space.

We are in so good position right now that I couldnt take it if the front office ruins it by trying to "win now". The next chance to turn around wont be very soon since our rookie deals will start to expire and that takes away our flexibility. Considering we dont have a 1st rounder in '19, opportunity like this wont come in years since it takes time to get to a situation like this. We wont have a Cousins type player anymore to turn into 3-4 promising players
 
pdxKingsFan

pdxKingsFan

So Ordinary That It's Truly Quite Extraordinary
Staff member
#42
#42
Gguod said:
Thats the thing with tanking and drafting. You dont allways hit with every pick but you give yourself the best odds to add a superstar into your team. I simply want Kings to give themselves and us the fans the best possible odds to succes. No real franchise player are going to sign us via free agency so we need to put ourselves in the best possible position to get one in order to really be succesfull. And that ihappens by drafting high and having cap space to turn into assets.

The situation was different when Cuz was here. We kind of had a franchise caliber player and win now moves were justifiable since we needed to keep Cuz happy and we had legitimate chance to getting to the playoffs. Plus the franchise had a horrible reputation so gettin to the playoffs would've been helpfull to change that. But now we are in a GREAT position to do a quick rebuild. We have allready changed the culture, we have a great coach, we have team with lots of young players and players with good contracts and a lot of cap space. We just don have that franchise player. In order to get it we need to develope our young core in hopes of that some of those takes s big leap, give ourselves a good draft position to draft that guy and keep the cap space so he could be gotten ether in next years free agency or with assets that wr get by utilizing our cap space.

We are in so good position right now that I couldnt take it if the front office ruins it by trying to "win now". The next chance to turn around wont be very soon since our rookie deals will start to expire and that takes away our flexibility. Considering we dont have a 1st rounder in '19, opportunity like this wont come in years since it takes time to get to a situation like this. We wont have a Cousins type player anymore to turn into 3-4 promising players
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So I think we are in agreement that when we had Cousins, we had a guy that was rightly viewed as a franchise caliber player and we had to attempt to win with him. And I think we're in agreement that sometime in the last 12 months the decision was made to move a new direction, and we're off to a great start. And I think we'll also agree that there's no reason to get crazy with free agent signings until we know where we are and rebuild the image of the team to where we're actually a destination for guys worth signing. So we'll probably be a bottom 3 team next season, and that's ok. Particularly because I don't think we'll be going out with the mindset to lose games on purpose.

My only nit to pick with Philly is that I don't think they deserve heaps of praise for what they've done and I don't trust them to put it all together. If we somehow wind up with one of the top two picks next year I think we'd arguably be in the same place then that they are now 18 months into a rebuild where it took them 5 years of embarrassing basketball to get here. And they are in the East where more than one franchise has gone from the lottery to being the team that gets to lose to LeBron in the conference finals that year. I just can't sing their praises because they still feel like a terribly run franchise that's gotten heaps of good luck. Hell even getting Fultz took the minor miracles and dumb luck of the Kings finally moving up in the lottery after deciding to blow it up midseason despite being a fringe playoff contender and Boston apparently not wanting him. When they made the trade for pick swaps with the Kings they were banking on being the better team not two more years of tank jobs. Is there any reason to have faith in their organization? I'm not sold. That doesn't mean they shouldn't be good. They should be good. Especially in the East.
 
Jkbiker

Jkbiker

Starter
#43
#43
So if we pay big bucks to a SF , they need to be young (max 28) so if they are here in our glory years 3-4th year , they will still be in prime

So on July 1 Offer $20mil for 4 yrs to Gallinari age 28

if No go then offer 24 mil to Otto porter age 24 see if Wiz match

If they match offer 15 mil to bojan Bogdanovic age 28- Wiz cant match both offers

Just think 2 Bogs at 2 and 3 shooting the lights out
 
K

kpm308

G-League
#44
#44
I would love to see Tony Allen on a 2 year, second year ungauranteed contract similar to Afflalo/Tolliver from last season. Yeah he's old and yeah he's not actually a SF, but he can still defend any SF in the league at an above average level, so you bring him in to either be the bench defender or the starter to set the tone, play short minutes and let the kids come in. His toughness and defensive focus would be huge for these kinds every day in practice and having the toughest guy in the league backing you up gives these kids confidence to not pushed around or intimidated. Already Has a history with Joerger. Memphis isn't going to offer more than the vet min, he hasn't made enough money in his career to just ring chase, we have plenty of money to spend just give him 10 million and let him be a vet mentor and a stopgap if nothing better comes for the SF position
 
Telemachus

Telemachus

Starter
#48
#48
Jkbiker said:
So if we pay big bucks to a SF , they need to be young (max 28) so if they are here in our glory years 3-4th year , they will still be in prime

So on July 1 Offer $20mil for 4 yrs to Gallinari age 28

if No go then offer 24 mil to Otto porter age 24 see if Wiz match

If they match offer 15 mil to bojan Bogdanovic age 28- Wiz cant match both offers

Just think 2 Bogs at 2 and 3 shooting the lights out
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I would offer Porter a max deal at 12:01 am while having Joe Ingles on the phone in case he says no.
 
jcassio

jcassio

Starter
#49
#49
We don't need a veteran SF. Temple will do fine until one of our youngsters is ready to step it up.
Where we have holes is a veteran PG who can start until one of the youngsters is ready. We're also short of one veteran PF. We've only got Skal and Giles there, and it's premature to think that Giles can be healthy enough to make it in the NBA.
 
twslam07

twslam07

All-Star
#53
#53
I'd sign Tolliver to another 2 year deal with the 2nd year being a team option, sign Isaiah Cousins to a small contract, and sign Devin Robinson to a small contract.

PG - Fox / Mason / Cousins
SG - Hield / Bogdanovic / Richardson
SF - Temple / Jackson / Robinson
PF - Labissiere / Tolliver / Giles
C - Cauley-Stein / Koufos / Papagiannis

The signings bring in another veteran leader who already has relationships with some of these young guys, doesn't improve the current team to make sure we get the best pick possible next year (in hope of landing another star talent), and maintains our cap flexibility.

If we get someone like Porter in next year's draft & keep our 2018 2nd round pick, we could have these young assets going into next season.

PG - Fox / Mason / Cousins
SG - Hield / Bogdanovic / Richardson
SF - Porter / Jackson / Robinson
PF - Labissiere / Giles
C - Cauley-Stein / Papagiannis
*2018 2nd

That's 14 roster spots filled by young assets with a ton of cap space during a year when the following players will be free agents: LaVine, Hood, P. George, LeBron, Wiggins, J. Parker, Favors, Aldridge, J. Randle, A. Gordon, Cousins, D. Jordan, Embiid, & Nurkic.
 
twslam07

twslam07

All-Star
#54
#54
Casspi is another player to consider as a FA. Likes to get out and run, high character vet, loves Sacramento, etc. I would probably only offer him 1 year guaranteed so we can keep our flexibility going forward.
 
jcassio

jcassio

Starter
#57
#57
twslam07 said:
Casspi is another player to consider as a FA. Likes to get out and run, high character vet, loves Sacramento, etc. I would probably only offer him 1 year guaranteed so we can keep our flexibility going forward.
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Did you take a leave of absence last year? Casspi, for whatever reason, couldn't get the nod from Joerger. Don't see where/how he fits.
 
OptimusRhyme

OptimusRhyme

Jive Turkey
#58
#58
Telemachus said:
I would offer Porter a max deal at 12:01 am while having Joe Ingles on the phone in case he says no.
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I like that thinking! You would think Porter would seriously consider signing here now.. We're on the rise, new arena, tons of cap-space, young fun team to grow with and he'd be one of the main guys.
The shooting on this team would be insane.. Porter, Hield, Jackson, Mason, Bog, Skal, Richardson... All these shooters makes me love the Fox pick even more, So many options to kick out too.
 
roasthawg

roasthawg

Starter
#59
#59
jcassio said:
I agree. But maybe they thought they could do better at the PF/veteran spot. Maybe a strong rebounder and defensive specialist?
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Yeah makes sense... They clearly have some players they're targeting and they're not going to be cheap or else why not trade away the cap space? Galinari is my most likely guess as one of the targets. A pf... Millsap, Randolph, Gasol. And a backup point guard.
 
upinsmoke

upinsmoke

All-Star
#60
#60
There's a good chance a couple of these players end up in a Big Horn jersey to start. I'm not sure if they're going to "red shirt" Giles but he's a candidate along with Mason and Jackson. Who knows I. Cousins might make a case for himself in Summer League. Alot of unknowns still but what I do know is SL and practices are going to be competitive.
 
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