The art and agony of the tank (split from game thread)

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Suicide King

Suicide King

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#181
#181
Where did anyone say picks out of the top 3 (or 10 or whatever) were more valuable?

The point some of us were trying to make is that it doesnt matter where your picking if your FO's eye for talent is weak.

I am pretty confident in saying every poster on this forum agrees it is better to pick as close to first as possible. The hope is to not let players like Giannis or Damien Lillard etc slip past you regardless of where we end up picking.
 
ockingsfan

ockingsfan

Starter
#182
#182
Holy Crap Batman!

If the Kings win two more games against the Lakers, Houston, Suns or Clippers, and if N.O. doesn't win again, the Kings could slip to #10, pre-lottery, with a fair chance we lose our own pick!

That would be disastrous!

The Kings better get their Tank on now, they really can not afford to win more than 1 more game the rest of the season!

The Kings really need to stay in the bottom 8, pre-lottery! o_O
 
ockingsfan

ockingsfan

Starter
#183
#183
I wonder if we can "Rest" or sit out the whole Coaching staff for the final 4 games, like they do in baseball sometimes, and pick one of the vets to coach for one game each??? ;)
 
P

pshn80

Starter
#184
#184
Suicide King said:
Where did anyone say picks out of the top 3 (or 10 or whatever) were more valuable?

The point some of us were trying to make is that it doesnt matter where your picking if your FO's eye for talent is weak.

I am pretty confident in saying every poster on this forum agrees it is better to pick as close to first as possible. The hope is to not let players like Giannis or Damien Lillard etc slip past you regardless of where we end up picking.
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True. And remember, everybody's FO has the same problem of picking the right one. It is not simply a King's problem. There is no guartee no matter who is picking and no matter where you're picking.
 
ockingsfan

ockingsfan

Starter
#185
#185
Suicide King said:
Where did anyone say picks out of the top 3 (or 10 or whatever) were more valuable?

The point some of us were trying to make is that it doesnt matter where your picking if your FO's eye for talent is weak.

I am pretty confident in saying every poster on this forum agrees it is better to pick as close to first as possible. The hope is to not let players like Giannis or Damien Lillard etc slip past you regardless of where we end up picking.
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Here is the problem with picking top 3, with all the scrutiny and websites projecting who should be the consensus "best players" in the draft.

IF the GM were to pick someone else, that they like better in the top 3, (i.e. Kawhi or Giannis) instead of the consensus top 3 players, and IF that player doesn't pan out, that would be a fireable offense for these GMs.

So, a lot of these GM's go the safe route and pick the talent that are the consensus or projected to be the top 3 picks (i.e. D'Angelo Russel and Okafor being picked before Porzingis).

A GM may want to trade down for more assets, to pick the player that they really like in the lower lottery or mid-first round, but to pass up a potential "franchise" player in the top 3 picks it is hard to do, with all the scrutiny that the fans and media has nowadays.
 
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parker

parker

Bench
#186
#186
ockingsfan said:
Holy Crap Batman!

If the Kings win two more games against the Lakers, Houston, Suns or Clippers, and if N.O. doesn't win again, the Kings could slip to #10, pre-lottery, with a fair chance we lose our own pick!

That would be disastrous!

The Kings better get their Tank on now, they really can not afford to win more than 1 more game the rest of the season!

The Kings really need to stay in the bottom 8, pre-lottery! o_O
Click to expand...
It's pretty unlikely that New Orleans is going to lose out since they play the Lakers. Plus, they have no incentive to lose out since they are giving away their pick.

Even with just 4 games to go, you can drive yourself nuts running possible scenarios thinking "oh no, this team is losing or that team is winning." I'm Elsa-ing up and letting go.
 
Blob

Blob

Starter
#187
#187
ockingsfan said:
Holy Crap Batman!

If the Kings win two more games against the Lakers, Houston, Suns or Clippers, and if N.O. doesn't win again, the Kings could slip to #10, pre-lottery, with a fair chance we lose our own pick!

That would be disastrous!

The Kings better get their Tank on now, they really can not afford to win more than 1 more game the rest of the season!

The Kings really need to stay in the bottom 8, pre-lottery! o_O
Click to expand...
Time to roll-out the Vivek 4 vs 5 strategy. :) The other thing I don't want to see is Galloway, Ben and Affalo, guys with limited to NO future on this team playing like Michael Jordan incarnate. Ben was on fire with the Mavs. He needs to quit that immediately! Minnesota (31 wins) and Knicks (30 wins) in action tonight. It would be lovely if these teams could play with a little competitive pride! Sometimes the Knicks will come up big at MSG. The Wolves have chance to spoil Blazers playoff bid.
 
ockingsfan

ockingsfan

Starter
#188
#188
parker said:
It's pretty unlikely that New Orleans is going to lose out since they play the Lakers. Plus, they have no incentive to lose out since they are giving away their pick.
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There is also the possibility of the Kings winning 3 of the last 4 and New Orleans going 1-3, which would put the Kings in the same position, #10.

Never underestimate the luck of the #KANGZ!
 
King Baller

King Baller

All-Star
#189
#189
Blob said:
Time to roll-out the Vivek 4 vs 5 strategy. :) The other thing I don't want to see is Galloway, Ben and Affalo, guys with limited to NO future on this team playing like Michael Jordan incarnate. Ben was on fire with the Mavs. He needs to quit that immediately! Minnesota (31 wins) and Knicks (30 wins) in action tonight. It would be lovely if these teams could play with a little competitive pride! Sometimes the Knicks will come up big at MSG. The Wolves have chance to spoil Blazers playoff bid.
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Well Blob what is your rotation then? Give us your top 8, 5 to start and 3 bench players:)
 
Kingsfan23

Kingsfan23

All-Star
#190
#190
pshn80 said:
True. And remember, everybody's FO has the same problem of picking the right one. It is not simply a King's problem. There is no guartee no matter who is picking and no matter where you're picking.
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We have to be worried about picking at all, which means we need the 9th worst record at least. Only two games back of New Orleans
 
Suicide King

Suicide King

Starter
#191
#191
@ockingsfan

That is true of course.

However what if we had listened tp GP and taken Gianis for example. Or his Peja pick for another.

There is always a chance your pick doesnt pan concensus or not. If I am confident one player will be better that would be who I am picking. I would rather be wrong about my own instincts and be fired than someone else's.

Better to burn out than to fade away.
 
ockingsfan

ockingsfan

Starter
#192
#192
Suicide King said:
@ockingsfan

That is true of course.

However what if we had listened tp GP and taken Gianis for example. Or his Peja pick for another.

There is always a chance your pick doesnt pan concensus or not. If I am confident one player will be better that would be who I am picking. I would rather be wrong about my own instincts and be fired than someone else's.

Better to burn out than to fade away.
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I think pressure wise, it would be a lot easier for a GM to take a chance on a relative unknown player when you are picking lower, like at #8-15 or lower, instead of say #1-3.

As a GM, that is a lot of pressure to put on your career, if you are wrong about a player taken that high in the lottery and you whiff, especially if no one else would have taken that player so early.

As a GM, you are basically putting your career on the line for that player.

Also, if you like a player that much, I would try to trade down, and hope that player is still available when I pick.
 
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parker

parker

Bench
#193
#193
ockingsfan said:
I think pressure wise, it would be a lot easier for a GM to take a chance on a relative unknown player when you are picking lower, like at #8-15 or lower, instead of say #1-3.

As a GM, that is a lot of pressure to put on your career, if you are wrong about a player taken that high in the lottery and you whiff, especially if no one else would have taken that player so early.

As a GM, you are basically putting your career on the line for that player.
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Just ask Vlade about the criticism that comes with taking a player higher than armchair GMs think he should have been taken.

Flashback to 2016: he took Papa who?
 
Mass

Mass

Starter
#194
#194
VF21 said:
On a related note, perhaps an analysis of what TEAMS have consistently done the best in drafting future all-stars, regardless of draft position? I still maintain that where you draft is less important in the long run than how good a job your scouts have done in looking at all the possible options available to you when you do draft.
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I didn't check, but I would guess the Spurs are the best, considering where they drafted Leonard, Manu and Parker.
 
J

Jimbob

Bench
#197
#197
Suicide King said:
@ockingsfan

That is true of course.

However what if we had listened tp GP and taken Gianis for example. Or his Peja pick for another.

There is always a chance your pick doesnt pan concensus or not. If I am confident one player will be better that would be who I am picking. I would rather be wrong about my own instincts and be fired than someone else's.

Better to burn out than to fade away.
Click to expand...
I still think GP's mention of Giannis was more retaliation towards Vivek and that weasel article than anything. Vivek trying to redeem his image threw everybody under the bus including Petrie and Petrie fired back. With the 7th pick in the 2013 even though Giannis was intriguing I doubt any GM would have passed on Ben over Giannis. Petrie in all his glory also brought us a fair share of stinkers.
 
ockingsfan

ockingsfan

Starter
#198
#198
parker said:
Just ask Vlade about the criticism that comes with taking a player higher than armchair GMs think he should have been taken.

Flashback to 2016: he took Papa who?
Click to expand...
Just imagine if Vlade would have taken Papa at #8, instead of 13 and 2 more players. All Heck would have broken loose in Kings town!

At #13, I think it is more acceptable to take that sort of risk, on an unknown player.

By trading down from #8, Vlade got Papa at 13, Skal at 28 and Bogdan, not a bad haul. At number 8, Papa could had been career suicide for Vlade.
 
ockingsfan

ockingsfan

Starter
#199
#199
Jimbob said:
I still think GP's mention of Giannis was more retaliation towards Vivek and that weasel article than anything. Vivek trying to redeem his image threw everybody under the bus including Petrie and Petrie fired back. With the 7th pick in the 2013 even though Giannis was intriguing I doubt any GM would have passed on Ben over Giannis. Petrie in all his glory also brought us a fair share of stinkers.
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Agreed.

Ben was being talked about as the possible #1 overall pick, I don't think GP would had passed on Ben either.

GP also drafted Thomas Robinson and Jimmer Fredette, to go down in a blaze of glory.

Hindsight is always 20/20 though.
 
K

kingdivac

All-Star
#200
#200
ockingsfan said:
Holy Crap Batman!

If the Kings win two more games against the Lakers, Houston, Suns or Clippers, and if N.O. doesn't win again, the Kings could slip to #10, pre-lottery, with a fair chance we lose our own pick!
That would be disastrous!


The Kings better get their Tank on now, they really can not afford to win more than 1 more game the rest of the season!

The Kings really need to stay in the bottom 8, pre-lottery! o_O
Click to expand...

I've been repeating this variation for the last 2 weeks or so.....losing the pick altogether would be ugly. This is especially no thanks to beating T-Wolves and Mavericks B2B. Losing the last 2 would've alleviated much of the worry
 
Suicide King

Suicide King

Starter
#201
#201
I am not trying to paint GP as infallible and he definitely had some misses. If given the chance and my GMing future on the line I wouldn't go against the concensus just to be different. Merely saying do your best to scout all your targets to the utmost.
 
Blob

Blob

Starter
#202
#202
King Baller said:
Well Blob what is your rotation then? Give us your top 8, 5 to start and 3 bench players:)
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My full proof tank strategy includes dumping ball to Papa G 20-30 times per game, aka Feed the Beast, and playing Buddy at PG. The kid needs his reps and Buddy needs to get on that Curry path (Vivek approved plan). It includes benching both PGs (Collison, Lawson) and giving Tyreke lots of touches to do his high usage low efficiency thing. Then when the game is on the line (if it shockingly comes to that) whoever has played well sits and whoever can't buy a bucket gets plays called for them. :) If we can't lose this way there is no Basketball Gods. I also suggest Ben at PF and Skal dribble and shoot with his left hand only. Gotta develop that ambidexterity for year two. ;)
 
ParniValjak

ParniValjak

All-Star
#204
#204
steelevt said:
Everyone posting about players being picked later being all stars or whatever are forgetting the point of higher drafts picks. If you had a higher pick, that means you could have drafted any of those "later allstar" players as opposed to picking later limiting your options because the teams in front of you can draft those players first. We all know the draft is a crap shoot and hindsight is 20/20, so saying there were Allstars drafted after top 10 picks doesn't tell the whole story since some earlier picks were bad picks.

For example the 2010 draft. You can't say it doesn't matter if you were 7th or 10th since Greg monroe was 7th pick and Paul George was 10th and the later pick was better. The fact is if the pistons picked PG first then it does matter because your whole theory is flawed. What matters is choosing the right player and the higher your draft position the more options to choose a star.
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And sometimes having more options to chose from leads the teams to not being as well prepared as they otherwise would be. If you have a top 4 pick, you might consider 6-7 players and those are the players you focus on.

If you are picking 15th that list grows out to about 20 players where you do more research, more background checks, watch more tapes of each player and are generally more prepared and knowledgeable about the prospects tan if you only have top 4 pick
 
Big Cuz 15

Big Cuz 15

All-Star
#206
#206
Blob said:
My full proof tank strategy includes dumping ball to Papa G 20-30 times per game, aka Feed the Beast, and playing Buddy at PG. The kid needs his reps and Buddy needs to get on that Curry path (Vivek approved plan). It includes benching both PGs (Collison, Lawson) and giving Tyreke lots of touches to do his high usage low efficiency thing. Then when the game is on the line (if it shockingly comes to that) whoever has played well sits and whoever can't buy a bucket gets plays called for them. :) If we can't lose this way there is no Basketball Gods. I also suggest Ben at PF and Skal dribble and shoot with his left hand only. Gotta develop that ambidexterity for year two. ;)
Click to expand...
i missed reke when he was traded. i haven't really watched much of him since returning
 
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