[Grades] Kings v. Nets 3/01/17
- Thread starter Tetsujin
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Kids should play. That being said...
I do not think that giving free reign or serious playing time to folks that are not ready is the best path.
Ideally you would like them to play the way you envision them to play in the future when they are on the NBA team.
The last thing you want is Buddy getting habbit to do whatever he wants on the court (Iverson style) and WCS to be 5 and try to wrestle under hoops. That is not their game.
Skal does not have body right now to get through the rest of the season with 30+ minutes without serious risk of injury. He might get there toward the end of the season. To the lesser extent this applies to Buddy, Malachi and WCS.
I do not think that giving free reign or serious playing time to folks that are not ready is the best path.
Ideally you would like them to play the way you envision them to play in the future when they are on the NBA team.
The last thing you want is Buddy getting habbit to do whatever he wants on the court (Iverson style) and WCS to be 5 and try to wrestle under hoops. That is not their game.
Skal does not have body right now to get through the rest of the season with 30+ minutes without serious risk of injury. He might get there toward the end of the season. To the lesser extent this applies to Buddy, Malachi and WCS.
it was a lot more fun watching those games than whatever this is.
I really do not understand what do you get from being a fan of the Kings. Honestly without snark.
If you value results and do not care about the distinction between the competitive games and total disasters, anything between 0-40% wins is the same in the sense of no playoff no championship only winning matter, you do not find much excitement in the close games even if they are lost, how can you stand being a Kings fan over the past 10 years?
I do not have impression that any particular player intrigues you as the future star.
Do not see you as a fellow that believes that thanks to draft and players development by Vlade and gang, Kings will be any better two years down the row than what they were last month. What keeps you going?
I really do not understand what do you get from being a fan of the Kings. Honestly without snark.
If you value results and do not care about the distinction between the competitive games and total disasters, anything between 0-40% wins is the same in the sense of no playoff no championship only winning matter, you do not find much excitement in the close games even if they are lost, how can you stand being a Kings fan over the past 10 years?
I do not have impression that any particular player intrigues you as the future star.
Do not see you as a fellow that believes that thanks to draft and players development by Vlade and gang, Kings will be any better two years down the row than what they were last month. What keeps you going?
You know what I mean... We were contending for a playoff spot, and honestly I think we had a very good shot at that 8th spot. Trading Cuz made us the worst team in the league, blown out by the Nets (THE NETS!!!) at home! Oh, but we won the Boston game, so many thought we would be much better without him. Culture, sharing the ball, having fun. Yup! So fun now!
On top of that, someone here still thinks we should try to win games, instead of just tanking as hard as possible, going 0-21 from now on. The draft is our only hope, and people want to try to give our pick to Chicago. Kangz!
On top of that, someone here still thinks we should try to win games, instead of just tanking as hard as possible, going 0-21 from now on. The draft is our only hope, and people want to try to give our pick to Chicago. Kangz!
I don't have twitter but I really hope people are trolling the hell out of Napear on there. He looks like such an idiot by trying to take jabs at Cousins when we're losing to the freakin' Nets. As if this team is better now that no one talks to the refs. Even my girlfriend was yelling at him to shut up and she doesn't even understand the full context of the situation.
On the positive side of things, Skal looked good after a shaky start. That midrange jumper is smooth. Had a nice weak side block and even scored on that step back jumper at the end of the shot clock. Wasn't more than a week ago when people were questioning whether he would ever even be an NBA player. I think he's showing that he belongs. Hopefully we get to see him develop nicely until the end of the year. Just don't match him up against giants like Lopez again.
Hield had some really nice moments and then some really dumb moments as well. I give him less slack because of his age but he's still a rookie and still adjusting to the league. I feel like he's thinking too much instead of just playing basketball. Joerger did say that he's working hard so that's a good sign from the young rook.
No point in even watching outside of those two at the moment. Willie was a flash in the pan. Most of the rest of the team is playing like they're half dead.
On the positive side of things, Skal looked good after a shaky start. That midrange jumper is smooth. Had a nice weak side block and even scored on that step back jumper at the end of the shot clock. Wasn't more than a week ago when people were questioning whether he would ever even be an NBA player. I think he's showing that he belongs. Hopefully we get to see him develop nicely until the end of the year. Just don't match him up against giants like Lopez again.
Hield had some really nice moments and then some really dumb moments as well. I give him less slack because of his age but he's still a rookie and still adjusting to the league. I feel like he's thinking too much instead of just playing basketball. Joerger did say that he's working hard so that's a good sign from the young rook.
No point in even watching outside of those two at the moment. Willie was a flash in the pan. Most of the rest of the team is playing like they're half dead.
I actually do think that @mac thinks that, once the Kings acquire MacGuffin and Phlebotinum in the draft, with the picks that they got for Cousins, that they will ultimately be better in the long term than they ever would have been, had they kept Cousins.
I happen to think that he's loud wrong, but only time will tell.
I happen to think that he's loud wrong, but only time will tell.
It's not so much that I don't care. Of course there's a distinction, but at the end of the day losses are losses if you aren't going anywhere year after year. Teams don't edge their way up 2 games by 2 games until they're contenders. They usually make pretty significant jumps. What I cannot understand is how fans here are ok with rooting for a 30 win team year after year. We might have sneaked into the playoffs this year, but it would be more about every other team sucking than us being promising. Like I said, we lost to Philly before in previous years and that was with Cousins on the team when we weren't trying to rebuild, so I don't see why a loss to the Nets when we are tanking/rebuilding should be that much of a disaster. We're throwing a bunch of guys out who have never been more than 5th options, not having had much practice together, and people are being snide that we aren't as good now as we were with Cousins (and again, that was a 35 win team, not even a .500 team). Maybe that is in response to some silly fans who conveyed the idea that trading Cousins would make us a contender overnight, but I have never personally held such an absurd stance. Simply put, I don't see a point in crying over spilt milk, particularly when the milk wasn't even good to begin with. We might have had a goose that would lay a golden egg, but for 6+ years all we got was rotten eggs.
As to whether I truly believe that we will be better, I can tell you that I don't know if we have potential stars. The sample size is too small and it's too early to say. I mock Vlade for saying Papa is gonna be an all star, but only time will tell. Do I trust in the FO to draft and develop a young team? Not exactly, there's no real evidence to base my opinion on. What I do know is that I definitely DON'T trust them to build a winner around Cousins. I don't trust top FAs to sign here, and I don't trust our odds of drafting a ready to play second star when we are drafting around 13-16 every year, which is where we would be for the next few years. I am inclined to believe that Cousins would simply implode at that point from the lack of winning. I am also inclined to believe that the ownership and therefore the FO is more inclined towards playing up tempo, and I am also inclined to believe that it is easier to win in the league today doing so than playing through a a temperamental big (who they will not give the benefit of the whistle as often). Given all of that, I think that the best way forward was to trade Cousins and rebuild, so that we would at least have a potential path forward. I'm no draft expert, so I can only hope they don't screw it up.
We gave Cousins 6 years to win 35 games. You can be mad at the FO for making us have to wait even longer, but to that I would ask why be angry now and not 5 years ago? These young guys are probably going to be here for awhile, so I'm going to root for them.
As to whether I truly believe that we will be better, I can tell you that I don't know if we have potential stars. The sample size is too small and it's too early to say. I mock Vlade for saying Papa is gonna be an all star, but only time will tell. Do I trust in the FO to draft and develop a young team? Not exactly, there's no real evidence to base my opinion on. What I do know is that I definitely DON'T trust them to build a winner around Cousins. I don't trust top FAs to sign here, and I don't trust our odds of drafting a ready to play second star when we are drafting around 13-16 every year, which is where we would be for the next few years. I am inclined to believe that Cousins would simply implode at that point from the lack of winning. I am also inclined to believe that the ownership and therefore the FO is more inclined towards playing up tempo, and I am also inclined to believe that it is easier to win in the league today doing so than playing through a a temperamental big (who they will not give the benefit of the whistle as often). Given all of that, I think that the best way forward was to trade Cousins and rebuild, so that we would at least have a potential path forward. I'm no draft expert, so I can only hope they don't screw it up.
We gave Cousins 6 years to win 35 games. You can be mad at the FO for making us have to wait even longer, but to that I would ask why be angry now and not 5 years ago? These young guys are probably going to be here for awhile, so I'm going to root for them.
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Oh we have found plenty of diamonds in the past few years, Cousins, Whiteside, IT and Seth Curry come to mind immediately. But when it came time for the organization to pull the trigger on keeping them, they either let them slip through their fingers or traded them for magic beans.
I hope things are different this time and the team helps develop the tallent that Skal has and they can keep him on the roster. But nothing in past decision making indicates to me that they will not either let him walk, or trade him for a draft pick and a shooting guard.
Oh we have found plenty of diamonds in the past few years, Cousins, Whiteside, IT and Seth Curry come to mind immediately. But when it came time for the organization to pull the trigger on keeping them, they either let them slip through their fingers or traded them for magic beans.
I hope things are different this time and the team helps develop the tallent that Skal has and they can keep him on the roster. But nothing in past decision making indicates to me that they will not either let him walk, or trade him for a draft pick and a shooting guard.
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Koz dropping straight fire on Carmichael daves show this morning.
He called out joeger for being "snippy" and having a bad attitude during press conferences. Said he's seen it at multiple PC (I concur with koz) and compared it to Demarcus scowling and sulking his way through this entire season with the exception of 2 times that koz can remember. He said that a bad franchise, this franchise, cannot afford to come out with attitude toward the press or fans. Popovich can afford it. He's won championships and has built up the good will. The kings haven't. He said locally and nationally, the kings don't have a good rep at all.
Koz also said if the Kings need a reality check, walk around downtown. Koz said he sees an alarming amount of warrior shirts and hats all over town. This isn't a warriors town. This is a Kings town.
He called out joeger for being "snippy" and having a bad attitude during press conferences. Said he's seen it at multiple PC (I concur with koz) and compared it to Demarcus scowling and sulking his way through this entire season with the exception of 2 times that koz can remember. He said that a bad franchise, this franchise, cannot afford to come out with attitude toward the press or fans. Popovich can afford it. He's won championships and has built up the good will. The kings haven't. He said locally and nationally, the kings don't have a good rep at all.
Koz also said if the Kings need a reality check, walk around downtown. Koz said he sees an alarming amount of warrior shirts and hats all over town. This isn't a warriors town. This is a Kings town.
No excuse for Buddy, Skal, Willie NOT to be leading the team in shots taken, usage, minutes played with Papa and Malachi (when he's back) right behind them. I want Buddy and Skal with at least 15 shot attempts a game and 30-35 MPG. No reason for Lawson, Collison, Tyreke, Kofus, Toliver, Afflalo etc to be taking more shots or getting more minutes from this point forward.
I think Joerger is trying to juggle keeping the vets happy for a stable locker room while trying to keep the FO and fans happy by playing the young guys. Plus he just trusts his Vets more than any prodigy.
The vets were playing great team ball prior to the trade but you are starting to see signs of ball pounding and selfish play as now that we have no shot at the playoffs they must try to audition for a new team next year, they know that we are headed toward a youth movement and won't be bringing most of these guys back.
I think Joerger is trying to juggle keeping the vets happy for a stable locker room while trying to keep the FO and fans happy by playing the young guys. Plus he just trusts his Vets more than any prodigy.
The vets were playing great team ball prior to the trade but you are starting to see signs of ball pounding and selfish play as now that we have no shot at the playoffs they must try to audition for a new team next year, they know that we are headed toward a youth movement and won't be bringing most of these guys back.
This could happen but on fairly slim odds. They'll probably finish projected at 5 or 6, my guess. What concerns me more is their scouting, talent evaluation, picking. Would be nice if they somehow manage 2 picks, but that'll be luck of the draw. That Pelicans top 3 protected was a ugly, spineless, and weak catch.
I hope Vlade takes note and fires him ASAP. Can't win without #culture, and being mean to the media is a cardinal sin. Imagine if Dave yelled at a ref. I shudder to think of the backlash.
I'm just thinking... who would be a high culture replacement? Lots of smiling, shaking hands, "good jobs" and "we tried our very best!"
Gary St Jean?
I'm just thinking... who would be a high culture replacement? Lots of smiling, shaking hands, "good jobs" and "we tried our very best!"
Gary St Jean?
If you read about joegers timenwith Memphis this was a big problem with him and the Memphis FO. First he copped attitude. Then he started speaking out against the FO. Then he started trolling for other jobs while still employed by the grizzlies. I think daves right. He said joeger is our biggest basketball asset and he wonders if the team has kept joeger in the loop. Is this why joeger has been short and snippy with the media, even after wins?
I really hope the FO is keeping him in the loop and not pulling the rug out from under him. We can't afford to lose a good coach because of front office ineptitude.
I really hope the FO is keeping him in the loop and not pulling the rug out from under him. We can't afford to lose a good coach because of front office ineptitude.
Well as I said it's all about probability. They have a clean slate building a winning team from scratch. They have 7 years of losing with DeMarcus. That's 7 years of ineptitude that you're counting on to magically turn into a winning team. If I need to place my faith somewhere it's going to the unknown rather than the known failure. Again, it's also about the situation, where I don't see a feasible way for the team to improve enough when we are winning around 35-40 wins a season. I was personally less inclined to trade Cousins once there was a higher likelihood that we would/could extend him, as that would buy us more time.
But beyond a simple matter of proven vs unproven, I am more inclined to believe that this FO will hopefully mess around less if they finally get to play the style that Vivek dreams of. We were never going to be a team that played the way the owner wanted with Cousins. That sucks, but it is what it is. As I've said, I also think it's just easier to win in today's league when your star is a guard rather than a big man with ref issues. Put it this way, the FO clearly didn't want to build around Cousins, so rather than extending him, having two more years of 8th seed appearances at best and hence lower draft picks, you bite the bullet now and at least have 2-3 years of assets to show for it. I am making a lot of assumptions about FAs and whatnot, but I think they are reasonable assumptions and no less likely than us finding the magic formula to becoming a good team without actually adding any high level talent. Even if Cousins goes on to actually make the playoffs it's not a reflection of what we could have done, because we couldn't have gotten Anthony Davis, or John Wall or whoever it is. At this point KingsfanGER will come in and say "what a lazy excuse, if you can't sign good FAs then your GM must be bad!", to which my response is, yeah, so do you want to fire the GM again or do you consider the hand that you're dealt and try to play your cards as best as you can?
We now have to turn our hopes to the draft. We have drafted some gems before, so we just have to hope that we will do so again. As Baja says, most of the top players were drafted, so we shouldn't be looking down on it. We've drafted Cousins, Tyreke, IT, Whiteside, and could have drafted Klay, Kawhi etc. Could have, as in we mechanically, feasibly could have done so, but simply chose not to (much to the FO's discredit). Meanwhile, what has free agency brought us?
But beyond a simple matter of proven vs unproven, I am more inclined to believe that this FO will hopefully mess around less if they finally get to play the style that Vivek dreams of. We were never going to be a team that played the way the owner wanted with Cousins. That sucks, but it is what it is. As I've said, I also think it's just easier to win in today's league when your star is a guard rather than a big man with ref issues. Put it this way, the FO clearly didn't want to build around Cousins, so rather than extending him, having two more years of 8th seed appearances at best and hence lower draft picks, you bite the bullet now and at least have 2-3 years of assets to show for it. I am making a lot of assumptions about FAs and whatnot, but I think they are reasonable assumptions and no less likely than us finding the magic formula to becoming a good team without actually adding any high level talent. Even if Cousins goes on to actually make the playoffs it's not a reflection of what we could have done, because we couldn't have gotten Anthony Davis, or John Wall or whoever it is. At this point KingsfanGER will come in and say "what a lazy excuse, if you can't sign good FAs then your GM must be bad!", to which my response is, yeah, so do you want to fire the GM again or do you consider the hand that you're dealt and try to play your cards as best as you can?
We now have to turn our hopes to the draft. We have drafted some gems before, so we just have to hope that we will do so again. As Baja says, most of the top players were drafted, so we shouldn't be looking down on it. We've drafted Cousins, Tyreke, IT, Whiteside, and could have drafted Klay, Kawhi etc. Could have, as in we mechanically, feasibly could have done so, but simply chose not to (much to the FO's discredit). Meanwhile, what has free agency brought us?