For what it's worth it's being reported that Lawson may be fined by the team. Players don't get fined for no reason. I'm not saying he was drunk or hungover and that's why he missed the flight and was late to practice. I'm questioning his decision making. We all agree he has made some poor decisions in the last few years.
Stein Report on Ty Lawson
- Thread starter swisshh
- Start date
This "no tolerance" policy that so many of you have adopted as fans is basically allowing you to see everything as black or white, when the world is everything but. I'm not a Lawson fan and never was, but the way so many so-called "Kings fans" are hating on him is embarrassing. Just take a deep breath and count to ten before you hurt yourself.
This is a strawman argument. After all, there's a reason Tolliver and Temple are making around $8 million and $6 million guaranteed respectively and Lawson is making the league minimum on an non guaranteed contract despite Lawson being a much more successful NBA player over the course of his career.
A guy battling alcoholism is not automatically a bad teammate or a bad locker room guy. Is he a distraction? I don't know. Probably to some extent. So is Rudy saying he's planning to leave as a free agent. Are either as big a distraction as Karl and Cousins last summer? Nope.
If you asked the players on the team I'd be willing to be that their honest answer is that they like Lawson and hope he gets and keeps things together.
The math is simple. If Lawson's ability to help the team is greater than his distractions and headaches then Vlade & Joerger will keep him. If it isn't then they won't.
A guy battling alcoholism is not automatically a bad teammate or a bad locker room guy. Is he a distraction? I don't know. Probably to some extent. So is Rudy saying he's planning to leave as a free agent. Are either as big a distraction as Karl and Cousins last summer? Nope.
If you asked the players on the team I'd be willing to be that their honest answer is that they like Lawson and hope he gets and keeps things together.
The math is simple. If Lawson's ability to help the team is greater than his distractions and headaches then Vlade & Joerger will keep him. If it isn't then they won't.
Question: Is there anybody on the planet that doesn't hope Lawson gets his act together? I'd really like to know that person is, just out of curiosity.
Lawson, just like every other player, is on the team because the GM has made the judgment, the probability calculation, that he is worth the risk; he's looking into his crystal ball at an alcoholic and rolling the dice, thinking that if he falls off the wagon, any distractions, any opportunity costs, are going to be less than the potential gain from his future performance. Every minute that Lawson is getting coached by Joerger, every minute that he plays point guard for the Kings, is a minute that another player could be getting coached or getting playing time, and for that matter, for the rest of the team getting comfortable playing with that player. Those are the potential opportunity costs. Moreover, a Lawson flame-out would be just another signal to an already skeptical media that the Kings don't know what they are doing. Perception can be reality, especially in the FA market.
Lawson, just like every other player, is on the team because the GM has made the judgment, the probability calculation, that he is worth the risk; he's looking into his crystal ball at an alcoholic and rolling the dice, thinking that if he falls off the wagon, any distractions, any opportunity costs, are going to be less than the potential gain from his future performance. Every minute that Lawson is getting coached by Joerger, every minute that he plays point guard for the Kings, is a minute that another player could be getting coached or getting playing time, and for that matter, for the rest of the team getting comfortable playing with that player. Those are the potential opportunity costs. Moreover, a Lawson flame-out would be just another signal to an already skeptical media that the Kings don't know what they are doing. Perception can be reality, especially in the FA market.
Says a guy that knows nothing about what went on or what's been said between employee and employer. You're connecting dots and making assumptions. To me, that's not a good look. But I'm sure you care as much about that as I care about what goes on in Ty Lawson's personal life or the reason(s) he missed a flight that his employers seem ok with after they discussed it.
Serious question. Why would a Celtics fan have so much interest in the backroom drama of a team that hasn't been relevant in a dozen years? If you're a closet Kings fan, I get it. But you don't really seem to be. Just wondering what the extreme interest is.
Serious question. Why would a Celtics fan have so much interest in the backroom drama of a team that hasn't been relevant in a dozen years? If you're a closet Kings fan, I get it. But you don't really seem to be. Just wondering what the extreme interest is.
Got it.
Don't get me wrong, I know this site isn't exclusive -- but I just can't relate because I've never been one to hang out on fan sites of teams I'm not a fan of. I couldn't care less about what goes on day-to-day with those other organizations. I have a hard enough time following this one. I have visited rival sites when the Kings are playing them or have made trades with them to read what those with an opposite POV are saying, but I don't sign up and post there regularly. Unless it had to do with the Kings, I wouldn't engage.
We're all different, though, hence my question.
Don't get me wrong, I know this site isn't exclusive -- but I just can't relate because I've never been one to hang out on fan sites of teams I'm not a fan of. I couldn't care less about what goes on day-to-day with those other organizations. I have a hard enough time following this one. I have visited rival sites when the Kings are playing them or have made trades with them to read what those with an opposite POV are saying, but I don't sign up and post there regularly. Unless it had to do with the Kings, I wouldn't engage.
We're all different, though, hence my question.
I'd feel a lot better if this was post Collison suspension.
I think some of us expected some trouble, but during the critical time of Collison being out it makes it much more concerning.
I expect another incident or two.
But for his salary this season, it won't bother me much unless its pretty serious trouble/distraction in the locker room.
I think some of us expected some trouble, but during the critical time of Collison being out it makes it much more concerning.
I expect another incident or two.
But for his salary this season, it won't bother me much unless its pretty serious trouble/distraction in the locker room.
Right, and the fans who feel all slighted and victimized by this quick-and-partial reporting, you gotta realize you're co-conspirators in your own agony. You know how this works; you have to wait for actual evidence before you get worried and worked up over this stuff. When you give it purchase, share it, agonize about it, it gives it more gravitas than it deserves. The media works the way it does because there's a market for it. Use your good judgment and don't succumb to trashy, impartial reporting 
So here's what doesn't make sense. His agent says he had permission to miss the flight, and I guess permission to miss the game as well. If so, then why did the Kings report that he missed the flight. If you have permission, you didn't miss it, you never intended to be on it. Why is the organization saying that there might be a fine, if he had permission?
Look, if they want him on the team regardless of what the circumstances are, fine! But don't criticize the general public for speculating about what might have happened, when your not willing to tell us what happened. No one will, or would be happier than me, if Lawson turns out to be our savior at PG. But please, just tell us the truth about situations like this once they escape in house. Why do I care so much you ask? Because Lawson rightly or wrongly is going to be an influence on the young players the Kings are trying to develop. I would like some assurance that he'll be a good influence. This isn't just about him!
Personally I think's most of Lawson's woe's last year with Houston were about fit. It takes a certain kind of player to play along side Harden in the backcourt, and Lawson wasn't that player. It was just a terrible fit. My main issue in the latest event isn't with Lawson as much as it is the Kings organization and how their handling it. But I've said enough on that subject already.
One thing that gives me confidence in our front office is that Vlade is no stranger to players with demons like Ty's. During our golden years, Vlade played with Keon Clark who was a major contributor and who never seemed to cause even a small problem even though it was reported that the guy was dealing with alcohol issues that whole time.
I think we should make one thing clear. This isn't about whether Lawson is a good guy or not, however you want to define that. It's about whether he's got his addiction under control or not. My best friend in life at the time was a great guy. A charming guy that everyone loved, and today he's dead from a drug overdose. Addicted people don't mean to harm anyone, but they do, and sadly, because they are good people, they get enabled by us. I'm not saying that Lawson fits that description. But I question the thinking of a person that's trying to make a comeback from addiction when he takes a selfie of himself in a nightclub, and then suspiciously misses a flight, and a game.
You know, I'd be OK with that if they would just say that's what their doing. If Lawson had a failed moment, then just say so and say were going to work with him because we think he's worth it. But don't be cavalier about it and blow smoke up our butts. Were all grown up people. Well, most of us are anyway. We can deal with the truth! What were tired of is one story being told, having it refuted, and then following it with an apology, and the truth.
It was highly unlikely that the Kings were going to cut ties with Lawson until at least Collison returns, then the leash might of been a bit shorter. I can't and won't speak on Ty's current life situation but in terms of basketball, we know what he can do when he plays and has his mind right. It's unfortunate that these off court decisions will likely shorten his NBA career.
Well....here's a bombshell if true
https://twitter.com/marcjspearsespn/status/788418650608955392
Heat and Kings discussing deal involving Gay, Collison and Dragic?
https://twitter.com/marcjspearsespn/status/788418650608955392
Heat and Kings discussing deal involving Gay, Collison and Dragic?
The moment you used the term "So called Kings fans", you lost me. When did asking for the truth about a situation become hating on Lawson? I seriously doubt that anyone on this forum hates Lawson. But they might be concerned about someone with a history of addiction to alcohol taking a selfie in a nightclub. At the very least, you have to question his judgement. Concern is not hatred. And your not a judge of who is a Kings fan.
Taking a selfie at a club the night before he misses a flight. AND he was out with WCS and B-Mac. I don't want Ty rubbing off on these guys. If you read Ty Lawson's interview with The Undefeated you'll see that the guy is just full of excuses. He STILL won't admit he has a problem even after his fall from grace.
http://theundefeated.com/features/ty-lawson-aims-to-bounce-back-after-stumbling/
But we need a PG. And if Lawson is even half the PG he used to be then it could work out well. Hopefully this was the last incident and we can see how he performs in the regular season. But I hope management won't let his antics go on during the regular season, and that this was the last straw. Don't need this kind of stuff hurting the locker room.
http://theundefeated.com/features/ty-lawson-aims-to-bounce-back-after-stumbling/
But we need a PG. And if Lawson is even half the PG he used to be then it could work out well. Hopefully this was the last incident and we can see how he performs in the regular season. But I hope management won't let his antics go on during the regular season, and that this was the last straw. Don't need this kind of stuff hurting the locker room.
I don't want to come across as some holier than thou person. I truly hope that Lawson can redeem himself, and become the player he once was. I have no ill will toward him. I will admit that I'm somewhat biased because I've had experience with addicted people in the past, and once you do, you recognize the signs; And maybe as a result you tend to exaggerate them in you mind. What I don't like is when the Kings organization asks me to forget what I just saw, like it didn't happen.
When Joerger was asked if Lawson would be on the starting day roster, he should have said something like, we think Ty is an important part of the team going forward, and whatever problems he has, were going help him work his way through them. I can accept that kind of statement. But don't turn to the reporter and say, why wouldn't he be!. That's a flip answer, and not helpful to the situation. I know that's Joerger's personality, but maybe a more tactful anwser would have been better.
When Joerger was asked if Lawson would be on the starting day roster, he should have said something like, we think Ty is an important part of the team going forward, and whatever problems he has, were going help him work his way through them. I can accept that kind of statement. But don't turn to the reporter and say, why wouldn't he be!. That's a flip answer, and not helpful to the situation. I know that's Joerger's personality, but maybe a more tactful anwser would have been better.
We have to remember that WCS and Ben are in their early 20s (barely adults!), are NBA players (fame), and have plenty of money. Of course they are going to go party and hang out at the club (I did that too and I'm not rich or famous!); I sincerely doubt that Ty dragged them to the club and forced them to be there. However, there is certainly a responsibility a player has to take upon himself and make sure he is fit for a game/practice the next day, absolutely. That is where Ty and most players differ, he just takes it too far, or at least has in the past.
It's clear the Kings aren't going to comment on this in detail, and the story we have so far is most likely all we are going to get. In order to save Ty's image and our own, we decided to not say anything, and in Joerger's case, actually twist it on the media for blowing it out of proportion. This way, we save ourselves the disgrace of "King's Ty Lawson gets hammered, misses practice and game" headline on ESPN, which would push us even further down the line of worst managed franchise in the last 10 to 15 years.
It's clear the Kings aren't going to comment on this in detail, and the story we have so far is most likely all we are going to get. In order to save Ty's image and our own, we decided to not say anything, and in Joerger's case, actually twist it on the media for blowing it out of proportion. This way, we save ourselves the disgrace of "King's Ty Lawson gets hammered, misses practice and game" headline on ESPN, which would push us even further down the line of worst managed franchise in the last 10 to 15 years.
Tweet not working for me.
But here is a non researched mention of it.
http://www.basketballinsiders.com/sources-kings-heat-discuss-trade-involving-gay-collison-dragic/
Probably better in its own thread or in an existing one with trades, so don't mind if a mod moves this around.
But here is a non researched mention of it.
http://www.basketballinsiders.com/sources-kings-heat-discuss-trade-involving-gay-collison-dragic/
Probably better in its own thread or in an existing one with trades, so don't mind if a mod moves this around.
Sorry I'm a Kings fan second, never claimed to be my number one team. Question to you president of the Kings Fan Club, if I change my screen name would it be better? If I get a Kings tatoo would you let me be in your club? Do Kings fans only live in Sacramento? Doesn't it make you angry the Kings haven't been to the playoffs in 10 years or so? Why can't I question the team? If you don't like my post don't read them. If you want me to start a new screen name as #1kingsfan let me know. What makes you a bigger Kings fan then me?
Oh, I think it's okay to want the team to tell the story in due time (and it seems that, ultimately, team reps were not as forthcoming as they might have been). But when social media breaks something, in a very partial way, at the end of the work day, just to lay claim to being the first to report something with the potential to be juicy, I don't think it's up to the organization to respond in an immediate way. What I was responding to is people conjecturing like crazy (which is okay and the purpose of a blog to some extent) but then expressing victimization and disturbance that they were allowed to get so worked up over something that turned out to be relatively nothing. To me, that is no-one's fault but one's own, and the amount of excitement and time people give to that kind of "journalism" just rewards it. I'm saying, I think most people one this site are smart, and should be better purveyors of media, rather than belly aching about how they feel they were wronged in being captivated by it. That is all.