Current Team Discussion and Possible Trades

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Once a top 3 pick becomes a player, then you don't care where that player is picked. You evaluate the PLAYER, not the pick number. Anthony Bennet was #1 pick overall, anybody wants him? If it's Rudy Gay for Jaylen Brown, then I'd rather keep Gay who I already know can play in the NBA. From watching Jaylen brown in the summer league, he looks raw as hell and raises the same concerns about him ie shooting, bad decisions, cannot create.
- I'm not arguing whether Jaylen brown will be a good player or not.
- I'm not saying we should trade Rudy Gay for jaylen brown.
- I'm saying no Team in the NBA would trade a player that was just drafted 3rd overall for Rudy Gay this year, regardless of our evaluation of said player(Jaylen brown) after 5-6 summer league games, simply because in The NBA - That player(prospect) has more value than Rudy Gay.
 
That Nets trade for Pierce, Garnett and Terry is one of the very worst in recent memory. Not only does Boston have a pick swap in 2017 but they also still get Brooklyn's 2018 pick outright. Wow.
This statement makes our trade with philly look horrible, we traded away our 2014 1st round prospect nik stauskas, 2 potential pick swaps and a 2019 1st round pick to clear cap space.
 

funkykingston

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This statement makes our trade with philly look horrible, we traded away our 2014 1st round prospect nik stauskas, 2 potential pick swaps and a 2019 1st round pick to clear cap space.
It's not nearly on the same level. The Nets dealt THREE unprotected 1st round picks and a pick swap that will likely end up as a top five pick.

The Kings had two pick swaps - one of which is already extinguished and the other will be as well if the Kings finish outside the bottom 10 and/or better than the Sixers.

In that case all the Kings lose is a 2019 pick and they've already gained the #22 pick in this draft with one of the guys they cleared cap room for AND still have Koufos as an asset.

And Stauskas was a sink cost before that deal. He still isn't showing any signs of being a serviceable NBA player. That's not due to Vlade's trade. That's on PDA.

Vlade's deal didn't work out as planned but it also didn't cripple the franchise for five seasons.
 
It's not nearly on the same level. The Nets dealt THREE unprotected 1st round picks and a pick swap that will likely end up as a top five pick.

The Kings had two pick swaps - one of which is already extinguished and the other will be as well if the Kings finish outside the bottom 10 and/or better than the Sixers.

In that case all the Kings lose is a 2019 pick and they've already gained the #22 pick in this draft with one of the guys they cleared cap room for AND still have Koufos as an asset.

And Stauskas was a sink cost before that deal. He still isn't showing any signs of being a serviceable NBA player. That's not due to Vlade's trade. That's on PDA.

Vlade's deal didn't work out as planned but it also didn't cripple the franchise for five seasons.
No, I'm not saying our trade was worse than the Nets trade. I'm jus saying value wise our trade looks horrible In the context of what you said. The nets got Paul pierce, Kevin Garnett and Jason terry. We simply got cap space.
 
This statement makes our trade with philly look horrible, we traded away our 2014 1st round prospect nik stauskas, 2 potential pick swaps and a 2019 1st round pick to clear cap space.
I wish we could quarantine every post that laments the Philly trade into one dumb thread. Can it be done with key word logic somehow?

I don't see how people look at the deal that got rid of all that garbage like it was a bad thing. If we could go back and unwind that trade right now... take back Landry Stauskas and Thompson and our 2019 pick - I would not do it. Not even close. Those are three guys who it was depressing to see when you looked down at the bench (or God forbid, on the floor).
 

funkykingston

Super Moderator
Staff member
No, I'm not saying our trade was worse than the Nets trade. I'm jus saying value wise our trade looks horrible in the context of what you said. The nets got Paul pierce, Kevin Garnett and Jason terry. We simply got cap space.
They got Pierce, Garnett and Terry when they'd already reached a point of not being difference makers. The Nets mortgaged their future in the hope of being title contenders and instead they won 44, 38 and 21 games in the next three seasons and now they absolutely are rebuilding but lack the picks you'd want for that process.

Not to mention setting a record for exceeding the luxury tax.

If the Kings decide to rebuild they'd still have WCS, their three picks from this year, the rights to Bogdanovic and whatever they'd get for Cousins (as well as Koufos & Gay) and they'd only be short one draft pick three years from now.

Apples & Oranges.
 
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They got Pierce, Garnett and Terry when they'd already reached a point of not being difference makers. The Nets mortgaged their future in the hope of being title contenders and instead they won 44, 38 and 21 games in the next three seasons and now they absolutely are rebuilding but lack the picks you'd want for that process.

Not to mention setting a record for exceeding the luxury tax.

If the Kings decide to rebuild they'd still have WCS, their three picks from this year, the rights to Bogdanovic and whatever they'd get for Cousins (as well as Koudos & Gay) and they'd only be short one draft pick three years from now.

Apples & Oranges.
I agree with everything u are saying
 
People really need to get a reality check. The value if pick 3 is NOT the same from year to year. One year you get Michael Jordan or Carmelo Anthony, in the other you get Adam Morrison. To even suggest otherwise is beyond dumb. Thank god our front office does not operate that was, otherwise we are up a crap creek without a paddle!
 
K

KingMilz

Guest
With Denver acquiring 3 SG's recently in Harris/Murray/Beasley is there any way we could pull off a 3 way deal to land both Barton and Wilson Chandler (Nelson as a throw in also) while getting rid of Rudy/Ben/KK? Maybe if Denver is interested in Monroe (Bucks wanted to move his contract) they could trade one of there big's in (most likely Nurkic) and we could send Ben/KK (Bucks played there best with a defensive C) also to the Bucks.

There were rumours the Nuggets wanted Milsap from the Hawks so there's another potential 3 way deal where we send Rudy to the Hawks (Nuggets send some pieces as well) and get Barton/Chandler to us.
 
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- I'm not arguing whether Jaylen brown will be a good player or not.
- I'm not saying we should trade Rudy Gay for jaylen brown.
- I'm saying no Team in the NBA would trade a player that was just drafted 3rd overall for Rudy Gay this year, regardless of our evaluation of said player(Jaylen brown) after 5-6 summer league games, simply because in The NBA - That player(prospect) has more value than Rudy Gay.
The only team that cares that Brown was a #3 pick is the Celtics because they picked him there. All the other teams could give a flying crap on where he's picked. They will evaluate him as a PLAYER, not as the #3 pick. So yes, the team that picked him #3 likely won't make that trade (Boston). But the other teams won't value him as #3 pick, but instead value him off their assessment of him the player now. Like someone before said, the value of a #3 pick is different from year to year. This year happen to be a weaker draft year. Also Before the draft, there were many mock drafts predicting Brown will actually go #8 to the Kings. After watching the summer league, I won't trade Gay for Brown because Brown looks like he's still very raw and a couple years away from contributing.
 
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In that case all the Kings lose is a 2019 pick and they've already gained the #22 pick in this draft with one of the guys they cleared cap room for AND still have Koufos as an asset.
That is a very good point you make.

Plus we still have KK and he may turn into a good point guard in a trade or possibly be traded for another first rounder in the future.

So, worse case, that philly trade was for our 2019 first rounder for this year's #22 first rounder, Malachi Richardson and KK.
 
I feel like I'm reading in the twilight zone lmao...
- Rudy Gay is worth more than the number 3 overall pick in this years draft?! - Really?! - Just from a logical stand point when it comes to value in NBA trades, in what world is Rudy Gay worth a top 3 pick in any draft. (Dont answer with your opinion of jaylen brown)
This guy was picked @ #2



Is he more valuable than Gay? (Dont answer with your opinion of Darko)
 
This guy was picked @ #2



Is he more valuable than Gay? (Dont answer with your opinion of Darko)
It's easy to say, that he is not as valuable as Gay after his career played out. But we don't know that much about this years draft picks. As fans we might have watched a few youtube-videos, maybe did a little research on draft express and the very few hardcore basketball fans watched a few college games. Therefore we simply can't make the statement, if this years #3 pick has more or less value than Rudy Gay. Heck most GM's and scouts don't know how a particular player will look in a few years.

What we do know for sure is, that Rudy Gay is an expiring contract, if he doesn't use his player option in 2017, which is unlikely, because he is signed below market value right now and most likely wants to cache in on his last big contract, before he starts to decline. Which raises the question, if Gay wants tor resign with SAC. Most likely we won't be contenders in a year and if he keeps up his current offensive production I think some contending team will make an offer for Rudy as a 3rd option or as the leader of their bench. Most contending teams already have a strong defensive core in place and can afford to hide his lackluster defense a bit or they hope, that the intensity of their locker room leaders will up Rudy's intensity level on that end and turns him into the plus defender he has every tool to be.

We on the other hand know, that Rudy so far failed to be our second option and couldn't keep the team afloat, when DMC went out. We know, that his defense hurts us and that his effort level was subpar after Malone was fired. We know, that he doesn't really fit the vision of the team most of us think Joerger and Vlade want to build. And we know, that our chances to become a team able to make deep playoffs runs, before Cousins contract is up for an extension are slim. Of course we all (or most of us) hope, that our big man is loyal enough to give this FO another chance to assemble the right pieces in SAC, but we can't know it for sure.

So assuming some of us don't count on DMC to resign and they don't think Gay is the right complimentary piece for this team given his contract situation and strengths and weaknesses on the court, it makes sense as a fan of this franchise to vote for a Gay trade this offseason and to hope we get young pieces with lots of upside in return, that fit the vision of our FO for this team (defense, ball movement, length).
There is nothing unreasonable or stupid or insulting to think trading Gay is the right way moving forward. And it's not unreasonable to want young, unproven players back, when you don't count on the loyalty of DMC.
Therefore I think all the snarkyness and the heated exchanges between users on this topic are pretty unnecessary. Both sides have reasonable arguments.

And of course the value of players like Jaylen Brown depends highly on the way the franchise drafting or aquiring this player wants to take and the current status the franchise is in now or will be in in a couple of years.
Given that the Celtics are much closer to become a contender than we are, it isn't unreasonable at all, that the value of Jaylen Brown for the Kings is actually higher than it is for the Celtics.
 
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It's easy to say, that he is not as valuable as Gay after his career played out. But we don't know that much about this years draft picks. As fans we might have watched a few youtube-videos, maybe did a little research on draft express and the very few hardcore basketball fans watched a few college games. Therefore we simply can't make the statement, if this years #3 pick has more or less value than Rudy Gay. Heck most GM's and scouts don't know how a particular player will look in a few years.

What we do know for sure is, that Rudy Gay is an expiring contract, if he doesn't use his player option in 2017, which is unlikely, because he is signed below market value right now and most likely wants to cache in on his last big contract, before he starts to decline. Which raises the question, if Gay wants tor resign with SAC. Most likely we won't be contenders in a year and if he keeps up his current offensive production I think some contending team will make an offer for Rudy as a 3rd option or as the leader of their bench. Most contending teams already have a strong defensive core in place and can afford to hide his lackluster defense a bit or they hope, that the intensity of their locker room leaders will up Rudy's intensity level on that end and turns him into the plus defender he has every tool to be.

We on the other hand know, that Rudy so far failed to be our second option and couldn't keep the team afloat, when DMC went out. We know, that his defense hurts us and that his effort level was subpar after Malone was fired. We know, that he doesn't really fit the vision of the team most of us think Joerger and Vlade want to build. And we know, that our chances to become a team able to make deep playoffs runs, before Cousins contract is up for an extension are slim. Of course we all (or most of us) hope, that our big man is loyal enough to give this FO another chance to assemble the right pieces in SAC, but we can't know it for sure.

So assuming some of us don't count on DMC to resign and they don't think Gay is the right complimentary piece for this team given his contract situation and strengths and weaknesses on the court, it makes sense as a fan of this franchise to vote for a Gay trade this offseason and to hope we get young pieces with lots of upside in return, that fit the vision of our FO for this team (defense, ball movement, length).
There is nothing unreasonable or stupid or insulting to think trading Gay is the right way moving forward. And it's not unreasonable to want young, unproven players back, when you don't count on the loyalty of DMC.
Therefore I think all the snarkyness and the heated exchanges between users on this topic are pretty unnecessary. Both sides have reasonable arguments.

And of course the value of players like Jaylen Brown depends highly on the way the franchise drafting or aquiring this player wants to take and the current status the franchise is in now or will be in in a couple of years.
Given that the Celtics are much closer to become a contender than we are, it isn't unreasonable at all, that the value of Jaylen Brown for the Kings is actually higher than it is for the Celtics.
Great post.

Oh, and the fact that he seems to want out (not just reported by Voisin) affecting the likelihood he re-signs with us.
 
It's easy to say, that he is not as valuable as Gay after his career played out. But we don't know that much about this years draft picks. As fans we might have watched a few youtube-videos, maybe did a little research on draft express and the very few hardcore basketball fans watched a few college games. Therefore we simply can't make the statement, if this years #3 pick has more or less value than Rudy Gay. Heck most GM's and scouts don't know how a particular player will look in a few years.

What we do know for sure is, that Rudy Gay is an expiring contract, if he doesn't use his player option in 2017, which is unlikely, because he is signed below market value right now and most likely wants to cache in on his last big contract, before he starts to decline. Which raises the question, if Gay wants tor resign with SAC. Most likely we won't be contenders in a year and if he keeps up his current offensive production I think some contending team will make an offer for Rudy as a 3rd option or as the leader of their bench. Most contending teams already have a strong defensive core in place and can afford to hide his lackluster defense a bit or they hope, that the intensity of their locker room leaders will up Rudy's intensity level on that end and turns him into the plus defender he has every tool to be.

We on the other hand know, that Rudy so far failed to be our second option and couldn't keep the team afloat, when DMC went out. We know, that his defense hurts us and that his effort level was subpar after Malone was fired. We know, that he doesn't really fit the vision of the team most of us think Joerger and Vlade want to build. And we know, that our chances to become a team able to make deep playoffs runs, before Cousins contract is up for an extension are slim. Of course we all (or most of us) hope, that our big man is loyal enough to give this FO another chance to assemble the right pieces in SAC, but we can't know it for sure.

So assuming some of us don't count on DMC to resign and they don't think Gay is the right complimentary piece for this team given his contract situation and strengths and weaknesses on the court, it makes sense as a fan of this franchise to vote for a Gay trade this offseason and to hope we get young pieces with lots of upside in return, that fit the vision of our FO for this team (defense, ball movement, length).
There is nothing unreasonable or stupid or insulting to think trading Gay is the right way moving forward. And it's not unreasonable to want young, unproven players back, when you don't count on the loyalty of DMC.
Therefore I think all the snarkyness and the heated exchanges between users on this topic are pretty unnecessary. Both sides have reasonable arguments.

And of course the value of players like Jaylen Brown depends highly on the way the franchise drafting or aquiring this player wants to take and the current status the franchise is in now or will be in in a couple of years.
Given that the Celtics are much closer to become a contender than we are, it isn't unreasonable at all, that the value of Jaylen Brown for the Kings is actually higher than it is for the Celtics.

Ainge is hoping Brown will be Justise Winslow 2.0 and he might be or he might not be. I don't think many other GM's pick Brown at the #3 spot, just saying.

IMO in most years GM's would be very happy if a 3rd pick turned out as good as Rudy Gay.

Here are the last 10 3rd picks:

Okafor
Embiid
Porter
Beal
Kanter
Favors
Harden
Mayo
Horford
Morrison

So you see the 3rd pick is very risky. For every Harden there is a Mayo. For every Favors there is an Embiid (Who might turn out great but so far?).
 
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For the record I can think of a specific time in the past when a #3 pick was traded for a wing scorer who had never been an all star when he was traded. He had two other team mates who would make an all star game before him. Still, a team ponied up the #3 pick in the draft for him. I for one would take the Rock over Billy Owens 10 times out of ten. Easy in hindsight, but there are a ton of situations when the right move is trading a high pick for an established pro. The Celtics are in a situation where an established pro would be more valuable to them than a guy they will need to develop. Rudy is an option that could make sense... there are probably other options worth exploring first for them, however.
 
It's easy to say, that he is not as valuable as Gay after his career played out. But we don't know that much about this years draft picks. As fans we might have watched a few youtube-videos, maybe did a little research on draft express and the very few hardcore basketball fans watched a few college games. Therefore we simply can't make the statement, if this years #3 pick has more or less value than Rudy Gay. Heck most GM's and scouts don't know how a particular player will look in a few years.

What we do know for sure is, that Rudy Gay is an expiring contract, if he doesn't use his player option in 2017, which is unlikely, because he is signed below market value right now and most likely wants to cache in on his last big contract, before he starts to decline. Which raises the question, if Gay wants tor resign with SAC. Most likely we won't be contenders in a year and if he keeps up his current offensive production I think some contending team will make an offer for Rudy as a 3rd option or as the leader of their bench. Most contending teams already have a strong defensive core in place and can afford to hide his lackluster defense a bit or they hope, that the intensity of their locker room leaders will up Rudy's intensity level on that end and turns him into the plus defender he has every tool to be.
Oh, i'm not against a Rudy Gay trade, i'm against trading Rudy Gay for Jaylen Brown and Rozier. If we are going to trade him it should be for a position of need (like a starting PG). What we don't need right now is another project/s to groom and hope that project/s pans out in 4-5 years when we should be winning right now before our franchise center decides to to bolt to another team.
 
Rudy Gay will only get traded if the trade makes us better. None of the proposed trades here make us better.

Anyway, I would be very comfortable going into the season with this roster, provided that we have signed a veteran back up PG. Ideal candidate would be Mario Chalmers if he has recovered from his Achilles injury. Very good defender, 3pt shooter, solid passer and championship experience. Also has some familiarity with Joerger from his short time with Memphis. Pull that off and I am comfortable with the roster as currently is fighting for a play off spot in the western conference.
 
Oh, i'm not against a Rudy Gay trade, i'm against trading Rudy Gay for Jaylen Brown and Rozier. If we are going to trade him it should be for a position of need (like a starting PG). What we don't need right now is another project/s to groom and hope that project/s pans out in 4-5 years when we should be winning right now before our franchise center decides to to bolt to another team.
But I assume that's mainly because you think we still can turn things around in SAC, meaning get into the Playoffs this year and resign Boogie before he tests FA.
And that's the crucial point in most of these discussions. Win now vs build for the future. Nobody can claim he knows, what Boogie will do, except maybe our FO and his agents.
If we decide to trade Gay for young players with upside, it's pretty clear, what our FO thinks about the chances of this franchise to become a contender in the next few years (as rightfully pointed out our draft this year can be interpreted as a first hint).
We missed out on impactful FA's this year. The season needs to be played first, before we can think about next years FA. But next year Gay can walk for nothing.
This is not a comfortable spot we are in right now, because we need to make the decision to keep the core of Gay/Cousins or move on this upcoming season until the deadline and with every day we wait Gay loses more value in a trade.
I think it will be very difficult to trade an expiring Gay for a starting PG. Bledsoe may be a possible target, but that's pretty much the only starting PG we have any chance of trading for. And that's only because the Suns have plenty of guards and Bledsoe has damaged knees.
 
Bledsoe's success is primarily because of his athletic ability to shake his defender. Coming off of knee surgery he may not be back 100% for a year plus. So it is easy to focus on what Bledsoe was and not what he currently is. IMO players with Bledsoe's injury history are best avoided.

I think plenty of teams would like to have Rudy Gay as their starting SF, including the Kings. So I don't think you just trade Rudy to trade him unless you are getting real value in return. If the right trade cannot be found it might be best to let him play for the Kings and let the contract run out.
 
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