Free Agency

[206Fan]

Lakers have 55MM in cap room, they will match any offer on Clarkson, Fournier is getting matched as well. There is no reason to extend an offer sheet. I think I have convinced myself of these 3 being the best options for 2 guard,


1. Sign and trade Koufos for Lee 3yrs/42MM
2. Eric Bledsoe 1 YR/18MM, 16MM team option year 2 (giving us the option to slide Bogdan in at the 2 next year)
3. Bazemore 4/74MM



4. Crabbe 3/45. I think Blazers match unless they put money into bigs.

Does Orlando match a max for Fournier? Fournier would be amazing next to Cousins. He's ready to breakout. The Kings would be dumb NOT to offer a max. He's everything we need (minus elite defense) from the SG spot.

That much for Lee is kind of....I think I'd pass. I think Lee is extremely overrated for whatever he's going to make. He will be 31 and he's already on his decline. Memphis got rid of him at the deadline for scraps.

I assume you mean Gordon. I wouldn't mind Gordon on a 1+1 year at all. He's still a starting SG when he's healthy. The bad part is... he's never healthy. There's probably over-under bets at 45...

Bazemore would be great here. Lower ceiling than Crabbe, but he's 3&D while providing a lot of hustle.

 

[206Fan]

Harrison Barnes? He's only 24years old, 3 years younger than Bazemore, and 7 years younger than Lee.

He's a near-elite defender who can guard 2-4. It's not an overexagerration like when people talk about Willie...(people say he can guard 1-5, but in reality, he can switch 1-5, but only guard 4 and 5s). Barnes is a guy who can actually guard SG, SFs, and PFs.

If his offense never comes along, we get a 3&D elite defender. MKG is getting 13mpy, but he can't even stay on the floor. 2013, played 62 games. 2014, played 55 games. 2015, played 7 games. Barnes at the max is extremely good value compared to MKG. He's a much better scorer than MKG too.

I think we should offer the max to Barnes.

 

[peacelate]

I'd rather go after Solomon Hill like others have mentioned instead of Barnes.

I'm not comfortable with the Kings offering a guy who was the 4th best player on his team the max.

 

[206Fan]

I'd rather go after Solomon Hill like others have mentioned instead of Barnes.

I'm not comfortable with the Kings offering a guy who was the 4th best player on his team the max.

Hill is still extremely unproven. I'd rather give Barnes the max over giving someone who offered 4pts per game $14million.

 

[Sac.Kings]

Some of these players may end up getting a harsh reality check. These asking prices are ridiculous... Noah to Knicks at 18 million? I would fire Phil on the spot! Barnes at max/near max? For what... for sucking in the NBA finals?

Since when did players whose game needs attention or have an extensive injury history suddenly command 20 million a year?? Barnes hasn't proven anything other than he is a good role-player. It's not like he was James Harden who was scoring 20 off the bench for OKC. Noah spends as much time on the bench as he does playing and has lost a step (maybe 2). Ryno at near 20? I don't even know what to say. That's a lot of money to tie up in guys who aren't 1st options, or even 2nd option.

I am curious to see what happens when the clock strikes 12.

 

[KingsFan80]

Similar to Solomon Hill, Crabbe is the type of player the Kings need to take a risk on. We can't bring top end talent here through FA. We have to take these types of calculated gambles and hope it works out.

Crabbe's defense is just okay right now, but like others have mentioned, he has all the tools to be a good one. Groom him under Joerger and let the coach establish that defensive mindset.

Coming back to the 54-60 mil over 4 years that he is looking for, I was prepared to give him 64 mil over 4 years. And considering our lack of appeal to FAs and the fact that he is restricted, 64 mil over 4 years should be the starting point if we want to have a chance at grabbing him. Keep in mind that 64 mil over 4 years under the new cap is the same as paying him ~10 mil a year under the old CBA. I don't think that is unreasonable for someone at his age and with the potential he still has left.

EDIT: If we can pick up both Crabbe & S. Hill this offseason, I would be extremely happy. You would potentially have two 25 year old 3&D wings who you can slot in as long term starters next to Cousins & Cauley-Stein. Then the following offseason, you focus your efforts on one of the FA PGs to round out the roster. Not to mention you still have Papagiannis, Richardson, Labissiere, & Bogdan being groomed in the background for good rotational players or valuable trade chips to help improve the roster further.

You are 100% correct. We have to take a risk on him. If he works out great, if not trade him for you can but it is worth the risk.

 

[KingsFan80]

Does Orlando match a max for Fournier? Fournier would be amazing next to Cousins. He's ready to breakout. The Kings would be dumb NOT to offer a max. He's everything we need (minus elite defense) from the SG spot.

That much for Lee is kind of....I think I'd pass. I think Lee is extremely overrated for whatever he's going to make. He will be 31 and he's already on his decline. Memphis got rid of him at the deadline for scraps.

I assume you mean Gordon. I wouldn't mind Gordon on a 1+1 year at all. He's still a starting SG when he's healthy. The bad part is... he's never healthy. There's probably over-under bets at 45...

Bazemore would be great here. Lower ceiling than Crabbe, but he's 3&D while providing a lot of hustle.

I would rather overpay Crabbe or Barnes than Courtney Lee. I am not excited about Lee at all. I really hope we don't sign him.

 

[funkykingston]

I'd rather go after Solomon Hill like others have mentioned instead of Barnes.

I'm not comfortable with the Kings offering a guy who was the 4th best player on his team the max.

When everyone is healthy Barnes is somewhere between the 5th and 6th best player on the Warriors.

Curry, Green, Thompson and Iguodala are all more important to Golden State than Barnes IMO.

I'd probably say he's more valuable than Bogut, Livingston etc but other might argue differently.

Most importantly, Barnes has looked a LOT like a system player. He still can't create his own shot, isn't a go-to guy on offense and is in essence a VERY expensive 3&D wing. $25 million for that? I'd sure hope not. Even the Kings, who have to overpay for free agents shouldn't be looking to give the mx to a roleplayer.

 

[The_Jamal]

Does Orlando match a max for Fournier? Fournier would be amazing next to Cousins. He's ready to breakout. The Kings would be dumb NOT to offer a max. He's everything we need (minus elite defense) from the SG spot.

That much for Lee is kind of....I think I'd pass. I think Lee is extremely overrated for whatever he's going to make. He will be 31 and he's already on his decline. Memphis got rid of him at the deadline for scraps.

I assume you mean Gordon. I wouldn't mind Gordon on a 1+1 year at all. He's still a starting SG when he's healthy. The bad part is... he's never healthy. There's probably over-under bets at 45...

Bazemore would be great here. Lower ceiling than Crabbe, but he's 3&D while providing a lot of hustle.

Fournier ship has sailed. Them trading Dipo sealed that.

 

[biltalent]

Some of these players may end up getting a harsh reality check. These asking prices are ridiculous... Noah to Knicks at 18 million? I would fire Phil on the spot! Barnes at max/near max? For what... for sucking in the NBA finals?

Since when did players whose game needs attention or have an extensive injury history suddenly command 20 million a year?? Barnes hasn't proven anything other than he is a good role-player. It's not like he was James Harden who was scoring 20 off the bench for OKC. Noah spends as much time on the bench as he does playing and has lost a step (maybe 2). Ryno at near 20? I don't even know what to say. That's a lot of money to tie up in guys who aren't 1st options, or even 2nd option.

I am curious to see what happens when the clock strikes 12.

Since the Cap goes to 107 million in 2017. That is 1.5x more than what we have now. More over you have to factor in that nearly every team has cap space this year and there are not many free agents to spend on. So teams are going to have bidding fights against each other.

 

[ESP47]

The more I look at this free agent market, the more depressing it gets. Teams are going to play a lot of money for 3&D guys or guys who can shoot but can't play D or create their own shot. Unfortunately unless Vlade pulls of a really good trade, I don't see the Kings being a playoff team this year and I see Cousins going bye bye at some point.

If we give Courtney Lee a 3-4 year deal at the prices people are predicting, we're going to be regretting it badly from next year onward. Barnes will be a regrettable one for whoever pays him top dollar. Crabbe and Bazemore are at least up and coming and could turn out to be decent deals. I just don't see how we're going to get 15 games better without some sort of trade that works out in our favor.

We don't want to go into 2017/18 with guys that are our 5th and 6th best players getting paid like they're your 2nd and 3rd best. That just screams being 2 years away from being 2 years away to me.

 

[funkykingston]

I'm still hoping the Kings can pry Bledsoe from Phoenix in a 3 or 4 team deal using Gay, Koufos and possibly McLemore and then sign Crabbe, Hill, Anderson and Curry.

It's going to be an overpay for Crabbe and Anderson and a gamble on Hill and Curry that could go either way but:

Anderson at $16 million
Crabbe at $15 million
Hill at $8 million
Curry for $5 million

would be $43 million which is room they'd have if Gay, Koufos & McLemore went out and Bledsoe came back. I know people don't think Ben has a ton of value but really he put up similar stats to Crabbe and next season he'll be a bargain even if he doesn't improve, which - in a different offense under a different coach - I think he will.

Cousins/Papagiannis/Moreland or Gudaitis (or Acy w/ Room Exception and Skal is the 3rd string C)
Cauley-Stein/Anderson/Labissiere
Casspi/Hill/Butler
Crabbe/Curry/Richardson
Bledsoe/Collison/Curry

and one more SG signed for the minimum for depth

If the Kings don't trade Rudy then I think you the Kings might be smart to take the same strategy but spend on less expensive guys.

$11 million to Teletovic
$5-6 million to E'Twaun Moore
$7-8 million to Solomon Hill
$5 million to Curry

Then maybe you keep Koufos (at least for now) for depth and to ease Papagiannis' transition and trade McLemore for PG help, say to the Jazz for Burke.

Cousins/Koufos/Papagiannis/
Cauley-Stein/Teletovic/Labissiere
Gay/Casspi/Butler
Hill/Moore/Richardson
Collison/Curry/Burke

 

[Sac.Kings]

Since the Cap goes to 107 million in 2017. That is 1.5x more than what we have now. More over you have to factor in that nearly every team has cap space this year and there are not many free agents to spend on. So teams are going to have bidding fights against each other.

Regardless of it going to 107 million, Barnes (for example) at 25 million a year is essentially 23% of your entire 107 million cap, which is tied up in a guy who is nothing but a role-player. Nothing Barnes has done suggests to me that he will deserve that 25 million a year contract. Sure, he's had good moments, but it's not like he is a young Kobe about to break out and yet people talk about giving him almost 1/4 of the entire cap??

Sure, there probably will be a bidding war for a bunch of guys, I agree, but if teams are smart they won't start high and they will aim to keep contracts as low as possible (the key is ALL teams have to do this in order for it to work, if even one starts throwing out ridiculous money, the whole thing falls apart). For example, if 3 teams bid on Noah, one offers 14, the other 14.5 and the 3rd offers 15, it won't matter what Noah wants, the market dictates he's worth 15, not 18 million like reported.

Agents are being allowed to do whatever the hell they want and it's going to cause role-players to be paid near or right at "star" level salaries. It's ridiculous. Rookie contracts are literally gold right now and will be even more valuable in the next few years. Being able to draft well is going to be absolutely essential. At this rate, teams won't be able to afford being wrong on draft night.

 

[funkykingston]

Regardless of it going to 107 million, Barnes (for example) at 25 million a year is essentially 23% of your entire 107 million cap, which is tied up in a guy who is nothing but a role-player. Nothing Barnes has done suggests to me that he will deserve that 25 million a year contract. Sure, he's had good moments, but it's not like he is a young Kobe about to break out and yet people talk about giving him almost 1/4 of the entire cap??

Sure, there probably will be a bidding war for a bunch of guys, I agree, but if teams are smart they won't start high and they will aim to keep contracts as low as possible (the key is ALL teams have to do this in order for it to work, if even one starts throwing out ridiculous money, the whole thing falls apart). For example, if 3 teams bid on Noah, one offers 14, the other 14.5 and the 3rd offers 15, it won't matter what Noah wants, the market dictates he's worth 15, not 18 million like reported.

Agents are being allowed to do whatever the hell they want and it's going to cause role-players to be paid near or right at "star" level salaries. It's ridiculous. Rookie contracts are literally gold right now and will be even more valuable in the next few years. Being able to draft well is going to be absolutely essential. At this rate, teams won't be able to afford being wrong on draft night.

Which is why if 2 out of Papagiannis, Labissiere & Richardson turn out to be roleplayers or more, Vlade will look very smart in a couple years. And given that Bogdanovic will likely get considerably more than the rookie scale but likely less than the ridiculous amounts than NBA SGs who are probably roughly equivalent talents that could be a big get too.

Of course, it all depends on those draft picks panning out, but the strategy to trade down and pick up an extra first rounder and Bogdanovic and to deal Marco for the 22nd pick were great moves.

 

[biltalent]

Regardless of it going to 107 million, Barnes (for example) at 25 million a year is essentially 23% of your entire 107 million cap, which is tied up in a guy who is nothing but a role-player. Nothing Barnes has done suggests to me that he will deserve that 25 million a year contract. Sure, he's had good moments, but it's not like he is a young Kobe about to break out and yet people talk about giving him almost 1/4 of the entire cap??

Sure, there probably will be a bidding war for a bunch of guys, I agree, but if teams are smart they won't start high and they will aim to keep contracts as low as possible (the key is ALL teams have to do this in order for it to work, if even one starts throwing out ridiculous money, the whole thing falls apart). For example, if 3 teams bid on Noah, one offers 14, the other 14.5 and the 3rd offers 15, it won't matter what Noah wants, the market dictates he's worth 15, not 18 million like reported.

Agents are being allowed to do whatever the hell they want and it's going to cause role-players to be paid near or right at "star" level salaries. It's ridiculous. Rookie contracts are literally gold right now and will be even more valuable in the next few years. Being able to draft well is going to be absolutely essential. At this rate, teams won't be able to afford being wrong on draft night.

Hey I totally agree with everything you said. It's why I think the best investment are young guys like Crabbe and Bazemore. In contrast to older player they have a better chance to develop and be worth their contracts.

 

[macadocious]

Lakers have 55MM in cap room, they will match any offer on Clarkson, Fournier is getting matched as well. There is no reason to extend an offer sheet. I think I have convinced myself of these 3 being the best options for 2 guard,


1. Sign and trade Koufos for Lee 3yrs/42MM
2. Eric Gordon 1 YR/18MM, 16MM team option year 2 (giving us the option to slide Bogdan in at the 2 next year)
3. Bazemore 4/74MM



4. Crabbe 3/45. I think Blazers match unless they put money into bigs.

Fixed: I did mean Gordon, I always do that with those two players (had Bledsoe accidentally earlier)

 

[Iced Espresso]

So between 13 o 15 mil per year might work , If he is a better defender, holds the 40% from the three as a starter, Ben in reserve Following year Ben is gone and the euro comes in and we still have richardson

would Portland really match for a backup?

I think it could depend on the "potential sign & trade".

Ben may be enticing as a piece of that as he is young, cheap, and could be restricted next season. So if we are the accepted or high bid, and we dangle him plus something else, they may let him go I believe.

 

[206Fan]

Barnes is clearly the Warriors' 4th best player after Curry/Klay/Green. 32yearold Iggy is not better than Barnes. Anyone who has watched the Warriors in the regular season would know this. Iggy has declined a bit and he's no longer the guy he was in Philly.

People are vastly underrating Barnes on defense.

 

[twslam07]

Barnes is clearly the Warriors' 4th best player after Curry/Klay/Green. 32yearold Iggy is not better than Barnes. Anyone who has watched the Warriors in the regular season would know this. Iggy has declined a bit and he's no longer the guy he was in Philly.

People are vastly underrating Barnes on defense.

He had the 4th worst RAPM on his team this year. The only players that were worse were Rush, Speights, & Clark.
He also has a negative RPM with a negative in DRPM.
And he had a negative On/Off while his team was better defensively when he was off the floor.

Barnes is overrated & I'm glad the Kings aren't in the running to sign him.

 

[funkykingston]

Barnes is clearly the Warriors' 4th best player after Curry/Klay/Green. 32yearold Iggy is not better than Barnes. Anyone who has watched the Warriors in the regular season would know this. Iggy has declined a bit and he's no longer the guy he was in Philly.

People are vastly underrating Barnes on defense.

No, I know how good Barnes is on defense though I'd disagree about his ability to guard SGs on the perimeter. He was very solid against SFs and his lower body strength and ability to guard bigger PFs is (along with Green's similar ability to defend bigger guys) what allowed the Warriors to use their "lineup of death".

And though he struggled in the finals he's also a very good catch and shoot option on offense.

I just don't think a 3&D player is worth a max contract, even in what will no doubt be a ridiculous summer.

The team that signs Barnes thinking he'll be their go-to guy on offense and best or second best player is going to end up disappointed. I like Barnes. I just think people/teams are trying to squint hard and make him into something he's not.

 

[The_Jamal]

2 mins ago – via New York Post
The Nets have landed a meeting with with Sacramento’s Rajon Rondo, one of the best point guards on the free-agent market, The Post has learned.

Lets gooooo Nets, Lets go!

 

[andjel]

Crap
Beside Conley, I do not see upgrade at PG available for Kings.

 

[roasthawg]

Crap
Beside Conley, I do not see upgrade at PG available for Kings.

Collision is the upgrade imo.

 

[macadocious]

Collision, Curry, Cousins - Possible Cole/Chalmers stop gap while we shop in a trade for one in season. I think that is the correct play here. Spend money on the two and Ryan Anderson. Shop Gay/Koufos/Ben for PG help or SF help.

 

[Mass]

With Collison and a backup like Cole or Augustin I think we are ok. There's no need to overpay for Rondo if the Nets really want him.

 

[andjel]

It is a red flag when a year ago we (and Divac) thought that Collison is not good enough for starting pg job (though he was a starting pg before injury) and now some are suggesting that we should be fine with him starting.
I do not see that improvement in him this year.

Rondo has a lot of warts, but he was the only proven starter at the guard position we had, and he has talents.
Like Teague/Hill, taking Rondo off the boards in the guard-weak offseason is not something to celebrate.

For those like me, that think that just adding starting sg, keeping the rest intact, and Joerger we are a playoff team, this adds unnecessary uncertainty.

 

[andjel]

Moneywise, the cap jumped by a third.
What was 12 mil last year is 16 mil this year.
In translation, we were paying Rondo 13mil last year in this year dollars (was considered reasonable then) and his stock went up.

 

[SacTownKid]

It is a red flag when a year ago we (and Divac) thought that Collison is not good enough for starting pg job (though he was a starting pg before injury) and now some are suggesting that we should be fine with him starting.
I do not see that improvement in him this year.

Rondo has a lot of warts, but he was the only proven starter at the guard position we had, and he has talents.
Like Teague/Hill, taking Rondo off the boards in the guard-weak offseason is not something to celebrate.

For those like me, that think that just adding starting sg, keeping the rest intact, and Joerger we are a playoff team, this adds unnecessary uncertainty.

There was one time in the last 10 years where the Kings looked like they were going places. Can you name the starting PG of that unit?

 

[Peter_Gibbons]

How much would the Lakers really pay to match for Clarkson? I know they say they would match anything. But they want to save that room for 2 max players desperately and they still have to fill the rest of the roster as they only have 7 players under contract.

 

[macadocious]

How much would the Lakers really pay to match for Clarkson? I know they say they would match anything. But they want to save that room for 2 max players desperately and they still have to fill the rest of the roster as they only have 7 players under contract.

All The Bacon