Ryan Anderson

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#4
Why? His defense is atrocious. He cannot guard SF, PFs, or Cs. This is terrible. Especially if we're willing to open our wallets. I will not be for this move at all.
LOL, according to you, just about everyone you don't want plays atrocious defense. I guess someone's defense is either great, or horrible with you. No in between anywhere. Amazing that Anderson is still in the league with him being so horrible. I'm surprise anyone would want him.
 
#5
I'm fine signing with Anderson. We need shooting . He's probably the only free agent who will sign with us anyway this year. In signing a free agent , you're picking up talent for free in that you not giving talent back , like in a trade. If he doesn't fit , you can always trade him to someone for something good , assuming you sign him to a reasonable contract .
 
#6
LOL, according to you, just about everyone you don't want plays atrocious defense. I guess someone's defense is either great, or horrible with you. No in between anywhere. Amazing that Anderson is still in the league with him being so horrible. I'm surprise anyone would want him.
Baja, you need to look at the Ryan Anderson from New Olreans, not Orlando. There is no in-between with Anderson. At least with someone like Kevin Love, he can guard PFs. His only problem comes when he gets switched onto Gs.

Anderson's defense is beyond terrible.

Who are you watching? I'm serious. Anderson is literally bottom 15 in the entire league in terms of defense. I crap on Rondo's defense all the time, but at least Rondo still has the athleticism and quickness to keep up with any PG in the NBA. He also has great instincts in the passing lanes. Rondo's biggest problem is lack of defensive commitment. With Anderson, his problem is everything.

Please tell me who this magical non-terrible defensive player you're talking about. Ryan Anderson is absolutely ASS on defense. I don't ever use that term to describe players...but I will use it to describe Andersons' defense. It is absolutely terrrrrible. I'm extremely dumbfounded that someone like you who has by far, more basketball intellect than someone like me, would think Anderson's defense isn't a problem.
 

HndsmCelt

Hall of Famer
#7
I remember all the "talk" and rumors last summer- turned out virtually all the stories were bunk being put out there by agents trying to boost interest in their player.
 
#8
I used to want Anderson but I just feel like he really doesn't fit in. We've already got our young pairing in the starting five with WCS and Boogie and then KK is a very good third big already. DO we want to spend decent money for a fourth big with more stressing needs elsewhere? I won't hate the move if it happens but would prefer to spend time/money going after other positions first.
 
#10
I can see the reasons why we would be interested. I could even understand them but the cost to benefit ratio doesn't convince me that Ryno is the right option for us.

I guess we are in the process of acquiring assets.
 
#11
We don't have anybody who is lethal from 3pt line, so I'm ok if we get Anderson and figure out the roles later. Then if Bels could get his head out from his ass, and Seth comes back... we could compete from beyond the arc for a change.

Right now ain't nobody except Seth launches a 3 and I don't cringe.
 
#12
We don't have anybody who is lethal from 3pt line, so I'm ok if we get Anderson and figure out the roles later. Then if Bels could get his head out from his ass, and Seth comes back... we could compete from beyond the arc for a change.

Right now ain't nobody except Seth launches a 3 and I don't cringe.
And Cousins still would be our only good defender in a starting 5 of Rondo, Ben (or even worse Marco), Gay, Ryno and Cuz. I don't get it - the majority on this board always talks about the importance of defense to win in the NBA. And the same people want Ryan Anderson?
 
#13
I'm not so sure Ryan will be a starter. To me it will be our scoring 6th men, with freedom to shoot when DMC will be resting. I think DJ will play DMC and WCS in the starting 5.

I'm fine with Anderson. Of course it depends on the price. But we need a legit shooter, and more important he wants to be here. Usually people talk like we have a shot at the best FAs in the market, so it's better to save money for them. But realistically, do you really think we can get better FAs than Anderson? I'm not so sure... So if he wants to come home, it's an asset we should definitely get.
 
#14
Anderson is cool, but heck no to bringing Rondo back then. No way can you survive Rondo on the ball and Ryan helping while defending pick and roll. That's just a completely disastrous combination.
 
#15
I'm not so sure Ryan will be a starter. To me it will be our scoring 6th men, with freedom to shoot when DMC will be resting. I think DJ will play DMC and WCS in the starting 5.

I'm fine with Anderson. Of course it depends on the price. But we need a legit shooter, and more important he wants to be here. Usually people talk like we have a shot at the best FAs in the market, so it's better to save money for them. But realistically, do you really think we can get better FAs than Anderson? I'm not so sure... So if he wants to come home, it's an asset we should definitely get.
No we have no chance to get any top tier FA. But we can spend money on the likes of Solomon Hill, Luol Deng (more likely he signs with a contender), Marvin Williams, Mo Harkless, Lance Stephenson or Allan Crabbe.
We are a team centered around a rather slow but skilled center. We face a lot of guard or wing heavy teams trying to run and shoot 3's.
We don't need another slow, skilled and defensively challenged big. We need guys able to cover Big Cuz's weaknesses on D, that help him by spacing the floor on offense.
You want a stretch 4? Sign Darrel Arthur or John Leuer or Mo Speights or Nicholson....they won't cost as much money like Anderson and provide the necessary spacing.
 
#16
Anderson is cool, but heck no to bringing Rondo back then. No way can you survive Rondo on the ball and Ryan helping while defending pick and roll. That's just a completely disastrous combination.
With Teague off the board and Conley most likely not considering us, we have barely an option other than bringing Rondo back or signing Jeremy Lin.
 
#17
Well, Lin:
  • was the best defensive guard on Hornets' roster this past season, while playing both PG and SG, as defense dropped 6 points per 100 poss. with him on the bench. In fact, when Kemba was sitting, Lin led his team to stellar 100 points per 100 possessions: among teams only Spurs were below at 99.6 and NBA average is around 106
  • consistently gets 5 FTs per 36 minutes and converts them at 80% rate. Among NBA leaders in drives
  • for 3 years prior to this season, when he had to share the ball with Kemba, Lin hovered around 6 assists per 36 and 2:1 A/TO ratio, so while not an imposing playmaker, certainly a decent one.
  • has two seasons of shooting .450 on corner 3s, and shot .360 on 3s for two seasons prior to this one
  • played 70+ games every season and is 28 y.o.
  • Hornets will need cap space to re-sign him, so it's not set in stone, that he returns
Collison is still an option as well.
 
#18
I still think that Big Cuz with the right coach and system can be a more than decent defender. With him, Trill and (maybe) KK our big men defense should be good enough. I have great trust in DJ, and I'm sure this team will improve a lot on the defensive end under his coaching.

I agree with you we need good defenders on the perimeter, but I also think we will have enough money to get one or 2 of them, even if we sign Anderson (like I said, if it's a good catch or not depends on the money, so we will see when we'll have more details).

Arthur, Nicholson, Speights are ok, but Anderson is a much better player then them. There's a reason why Anderson will get big money, and they won't.
 
#19
I still think that Big Cuz with the right coach and system can be a more than decent defender. With him, Trill and (maybe) KK our big men defense should be good enough. I have great trust in DJ, and I'm sure this team will improve a lot on the defensive end under his coaching.

I agree with you we need good defenders on the perimeter, but I also think we will have enough money to get one or 2 of them, even if we sign Anderson (like I said, if it's a good catch or not depends on the money, so we will see when we'll have more details).

Arthur, Nicholson, Speights are ok, but Anderson is a much better player then them. There's a reason why Anderson will get big money, and they won't.
Of course Cousins is a good defender. But he is 6'11 and around 260 pounds, not very explosive and while shifty and fluent with a head asteem not very good when asked to move his feet on D to stay in front of smaller, quicker guys. Instead he usually reaches in, when he is attacked with a live dribble and picks up a lot of fouls doing so.
So from my point of view you need a quick helpside defender to cover Cousins, when he gets beaten out of the pick&roll, so that Cousins can confidently step out on guys like Curry (or if we don't want to talk about the Warriors lets say Lillard, McCollum, Westbrook, IT, Teague, Geroge Hill or any PG who will pull up using high screen and rolls, which against last years Kings basically was a practice jumpshot for the opposing guard every time they could put Cuz in the pick&roll)) to contest jumpers, because he knows there is someone having his back. We already have this guy in place with Willie.
On top of that we need guys able to switch a lot of screens and able to fight through screens or ICE pick&rolls. Right now the only guys, who are physically capable of doing that are Willie, Rudy and Ben and two of them tend to lose their defensive focus all the time.
In terms of personell we are one of the worst defensive teams in this league.
And sadly Ryno would make this even worse. The Cavs struggled to play Love alongside Thompson. And we want to play Anderson alongside Cousins?
Versus a lot of teams Anderson is pretty much limited to the role of the lone big on the floor. A lone big who can't protect the rim.
Of course he is way more skilled than Arthur or Nicholson (actually I'm not sure about Speights, who can do what Ryno does and at least has shown a pretty tenacious mindset on D for the Warriors).
 
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#20
Oh and btw., if you want a player, that can play as a lone big and is able to hit outside shots you try to sign Meyers Leonard. Legit 7ft, very athletic, can run the floor, can step out and hit 3's and with Joerger as a hardnosed coach, who has experience with big guys there is a good chance he finally learns, how to use his physical advantage on D and on the glass.
 
#21
Well I'm just confident in DJ's system. He got a great D from Randolph and Gasol, not 2 of the quickest big men in the league. And we have Willie.
 
#22
Well I'm just confident in DJ's system. He got a great D from Randolph and Gasol, not 2 of the quickest big men in the league. And we have Willie.
Randolph is a lot quicker than it seems and worked his ass off on D. With all due respect, but Ryno never worked very hard on the defensive end. And still the pick&roll defense of their rather slow big man was the achilles heel of the grit&grind Grizzlies, who had their share of problems with quicker teams too.
And let's not forget, that the Grizzlies fielded Conley, Lee and Allen - all 3 better defenders alone than the whole Kings squad as a unit.
I'm confident in Joergers coaching ability too, but team defense and systematics can't cover for up to 3 or 4 guys in the lineup, who are bad defenders.
You can hide one (most of the time Zbo in the case of the Grizzlies), but not 4.
 

funkykingston

Super Moderator
Staff member
#23
Oh and btw., if you want a player, that can play as a lone big and is able to hit outside shots you try to sign Meyers Leonard. Legit 7ft, very athletic, can run the floor, can step out and hit 3's and with Joerger as a hardnosed coach, who has experience with big guys there is a good chance he finally learns, how to use his physical advantage on D and on the glass.
I like Myers Leonard. In fact, I watched him closely during Blazers games this year because I thought he might be a good pickup for the Kings as a bench big that could stretch the floor. But while he has some definite positives, Leonard has some big negatives too. On the positive side he's a good shooter from outside and a better rebounder than Anderson. He had a better 3pt% than Ryno on an equivalent number of 3's per minute but Anderson also generally commands more defensive attention so I'd hesitate to call him as good or better in terms of outside shooting. Leonard is also a pretty good passer. And he defends traditional centers well - he's been surprisingly effective against Cousins. And of course he's four years younger than Anderson.

But he's also a stretch 5 and not a stretch 4. Which means he'd be battling Koufos for minutes behind Boogie as I don't know that you could play Leonard and Cousins together. Offensively maybe, but Leonard really struggles to defend on the perimeter. But more concerning is that (1) he's still very, very inconsistent and (2) he really has no offensive game beyond shooting threes. Leonard sometimes looks great and other times looks lost. I think his confidence comes and goes. It's why two years ago Stotts played Joel Freeland over Leonard two seasons ago (mostly an indictment of Meyer's defense) and why he lost his spot to Vonleh after an injury and never really got it back. And the issue with a stretch big that can't score inside is that teams are tempted to just go small and put a wing on them defensively. Leonard is most effective when facing an opposing big that isn't comfortable coming out of the paint to guard him. But if a team goes small then Leonard loses value and is a liability on the other end against a quicker opponent. Anderson isn't any better defensively against smaller/quicker opponents but at least he can make them pay on the other end by scoring inside or getting fouled, something he did FAR more often than Leonard.

To me the value of a guy like Anderson is that he gives you a stretch 4 off the bench that can give you 20 any given night. I'd still want WCS starting, but he's a great sixth man and could also give you a lineup that surrounds Boogie with shooters when desired. Say Curry/SG???/Casspi/Anderson/Cousins and you give the ball to Cousins at the elbow, the post, etc and let him work. If he's doubled he has the passing ability to find the open man.

I've thrown out lots of scenarios for this offseason so I have no idea what direction the Kings will go but if Anderson is interested in the Kings that's a positive to me. Right now players and agents seem to be treating Sacramento like a leper colony so I'm not sure how feasible a lot of proposed FA signing are, even for 3rd tier guys like Crabbe, Marvin Williams, Lin etc. So while Anderson has warts, he's a piece that could feasibly be added so I'm not sure it's as easy as saying, "let's sign player X instead".

Which is also why I'm softening a bit on re-signing Rondo. Sure, if Dunn falls or Conley is somehow interested in the Kings then those are better routes. Signing a guy like Lin or just letting Collison start and using the caproom elsewhere are also alternatives that must be weighed. But if Rondo wants to come back and if there aren't a lot of other suitors (or any other suitors - Chicago? New Orleans? I'm not sure who would pursue Rondo) and he comes at a decent price then maybe that's the right move.

In that scenario I think Gay has to be dealt. Rondo/Gay/Cousins wasn't a great fit and I've never felt Rudy's game particularly complimented DMC's anyway. So how about this:

On draft night the Kings trade Rudy for picks. Say to Boston for #16 & #23 or to Phoenix for #13 & #28. Do the Celtics or Suns want Gay? I don't know. But he's a good third scorer who can get his own shot and who is suddenly on a very reasonable contract. It's a lot of salary to absorb but I can see Rudy being viewed as a better use of caproom than the inflated prices other comparable players will likely get in the open market. And neither Phoenix or especially Boston needs a ton of rookies on already young, developing rosters.

Now the Kings have:

Cousins/Koufos
Cauley-Stein
Casspi/Butler
McLemore/Belinelli
Collison

a little over $40 million in caproom and picks #8, 13 & 28 (or 16 & 23)

Using DX as a model of players that would be available the Kings could draft Jaylen Brown, Wade Baldwin, and a SG like Bembry, McCaw, or LeVert (assuming he doesn't have major medical red flags). I think all three are slightly underrated, especially McCaw and (if he stays healthy) LeVert. Alternatively you could grab a bench big like Zizic, Brice Johnson, Jones, Stone, Yabusele or gamble with Diallo or Maker.

Let's say they grab Brown, Baldwin and Brice Johnson

I'm scared of drafting Brown but at #8 if there's not a great trade/trade down option I think he's a good gamble. He could end up being a Al Farouq Aminu type player or he could possibly develop into a Jimmy Butler type player at the SF spot. Really hard to tell but his physical tools alone should make him at the very least a rotation player.

Anyway, now you sign Anderson for $16 million, Rondo for $14 million and then you still have $10 million to fill out the roster. Sign a SG like Afflalo, Lee or Henderson with that money and sign Acy to the Room exception. Given how things ended in New York Afflalo is likely the easiest get, but I'm not sure how much he has in the tank. At the very least on a two year deal he provides an alternative to McLemore or a solid backup if Ben rises to the competition and finally starts playing like a starter.

Cousins/Koufos/Johnson
Cauley-Stein/Anderson/Acy
Casspi/Butler/Brown
Afflalo/McLemore/Belinelli
Rondo/Collison/Baldwin

Brice Johnson isn't a C but if Cousins goes out WCS & Koufos would play the 5 but I think Johnson could be a semi-steal as an energy guy, defender and transition/dump off guy on offense.

Is it perfect? No. But you've got a balanced roster with low usage shooters and defenders around Rondo and Cousins, some real 2-way potential in Baldwin and Brown
 
#24
Kings are not going out hunting youth. It looks likely, that they are using #8 or other lottery pick, they might trade #8 for, but they are not exchanging veterans for talent lottery tickets. And if Rudy now wants to stay in Sacramento, which is likely given the fact, that Joerger was vocally upset about his trade to Raptors, so I assume there's some connection or at least appreciation, I believe, there will be a lot of talks, but ultimately no trade - no one is trading good vets this off-season, and Kings are not dumping Rudy with ultimate "keep Boogie" season on the horizon. Belinelli is probably most likely to change residency after dumping on the locker-room with double-K a distant second choice due to fit.
 

funkykingston

Super Moderator
Staff member
#25
Kings are not going out hunting youth. It looks likely, that they are using #8 or other lottery pick, they might trade #8 for, but they are not exchanging veterans for talent lottery tickets. And if Rudy now wants to stay in Sacramento, which is likely given the fact, that Joerger was vocally upset about his trade to Raptors, so I assume there's some connection or at least appreciation, I believe, there will be a lot of talks, but ultimately no trade - no one is trading good vets this off-season, and Kings are not dumping Rudy with ultimate "keep Boogie" season on the horizon. Belinelli is probably most likely to change residency after dumping on the locker-room with double-K a distant second choice due to fit.
Obviously, it depends on whether Rudy still wants out of Sacramento (as it was reported he did last season) and what Joerger thinks of Gay. But I think in terms of a "keep Boogie" season, re-signing Rondo would probably mean more than keeping Gay. Now, they could do both but I'm very far from convinced that that trio works.
 
#27
Really? I recall reports of Joerger being upset when the Grizz traded their vets this season, but I've never before seen/heard anything regarding the Gay trade.
I remember this fact from podcast with sbnation editor for Grizzlies, when he was talking about the relationship Joerger had with Memphis FO.
 
#28
Obviously, it depends on whether Rudy still wants out of Sacramento (as it was reported he did last season) and what Joerger thinks of Gay. But I think in terms of a "keep Boogie" season, re-signing Rondo would probably mean more than keeping Gay. Now, they could do both but I'm very far from convinced that that trio works.
Producing offense without Boogie seems to be team's biggest weakness (sorry, forgot about defense, but we haven't seen that thing in years, so my forgetfulness is understandable) season after season. With Boogie on the bench Rondo wasn't able to produce enough team offense, while Malone was still able to get efficient 20 points per 36 minutes out of Rudy without Cuz' presence, so I'm not sure, that Rondo would be more valuable.
 
#29
Anderson is on the downhill slope of his career, and his injuries have slowed him a bit. He was never a good defender, but he still can shoot it. For that, he's a sixth man - thus, I say, "sure, sign him" but don't bet the farm.