Kings 76er's fall out?

[Tetsujin]

No, Brick is right. The chance of us jumping the 76ers in the lottery have alsways been so minimal that it is absurd how much attention it got. The price was always meant to be: Sac 2018 protected or 2019 unprotected pick for 15 mil cap space, two 2nd round picks and a chance to rebuild around Vlades handpicked guys. You can thank George Karl that we were so bad this year that it is now unprotected in 2019 and not protrcted in 2018.

Yep. The only way the Kings were going to have a better chance than the Sixers at winning the draft lottery was if the Kings' entire starting line-up magically vanished from the face of the earth and even then George Karl and a collection of Kings bench players probably would have won more games than the wonderful turd sandwich of a roster Hinkie's seasons of "getting one over" on the league had created.

I mean, their best player was essentially Ish Smith.

 

[Livinthedream]

People keep talking about not having to pick swap this year as a victory. It was never Philly's ultimate goal. It was simply an unnecessary risk by the Kings. Philly gives away 2 2nd rounders who are worthless. They get the Kings 2015 1st round pick, a chance to take take the Kings 2016 pick if they Kings somehow pass them in the draft and another 1st round pick. The deal also ensures that they meet the minimum salary cap requirements. There was absolutely no risk in anything the Sixers did. All gain.

Kings gave up on their 2015 draft pick, risked their 2016 draft pick, plus gave up another 1st rounder in 2018 or 2019 all for the chance of signing Wes Matthews. KK and Bellineli were not the goal and in the end they are bench pieces that did not improve our team production. So we gambled and lost. Rondo improved the team. So the net gain is negative. Having a better record than the Sixers and not swapping picks was not a win.

 

[peacelate]

People keep talking about not having to pick swap this year as a victory. It was never Philly's ultimate goal. It was simply an unnecessary risk by the Kings. Philly gives away 2 2nd rounders who are worthless. They get the Kings 2015 1st round pick, a chance to take take the Kings 2016 pick if they Kings somehow pass them in the draft and another 1st round pick. The deal also ensures that they meet the minimum salary cap requirements. There was absolutely no risk in anything the Sixers did. All gain.

Kings gave up on their 2015 draft pick, risked their 2016 draft pick, plus gave up another 1st rounder in 2018 or 2019 all for the chance of signing Wes Matthews. KK and Bellineli were not the goal and in the end they are bench pieces that did not improve our team production. So we gambled and lost. Rondo improved the team. So the net gain is negative. Having a better record than the Sixers and not swapping picks was not a win.

So let's say that the pick swap occurred in 2016 and in a future draft. Are the Sixers suddenly going to become great that they're draft pick won't be any good. Yea they get the first pick this year, but they won't have a better record than the Kings. The power of balance is shifting where the West is becoming much weaker overall than the East, so it's not like the Sixers are going to jettison to the top with a bunch of rookies.

Have you seen Stauskas play? He's pretty much worthless. He was drafted for his shooting, but can't shoot. That's bad. Maybe he grows out of the his deer in the headlights style of play, but the Kings simply weren't in a position to find out. It's funny how so much value is put into Stauskas simply because he was drafted high, but nothing of value is seen from those 2nd round picks. At least one of those picks looks decent.

I'm sure the Bulls pulled a fast one on the Kings when they signed 10th pick Fredette and didn't even have to give the Kings anything.

 

[Warhawk]

People keep talking about not having to pick swap this year as a victory. It was never Philly's ultimate goal. It was simply an unnecessary risk by the Kings. Philly gives away 2 2nd rounders who are worthless. They get the Kings 2015 1st round pick, a chance to take take the Kings 2016 pick if they Kings somehow pass them in the draft and another 1st round pick. The deal also ensures that they meet the minimum salary cap requirements. There was absolutely no risk in anything the Sixers did. All gain.

Kings gave up on their 2015 draft pick, risked their 2016 draft pick, plus gave up another 1st rounder in 2018 or 2019 all for the chance of signing Wes Matthews. KK and Bellineli were not the goal and in the end they are bench pieces that did not improve our team production. So we gambled and lost. Rondo improved the team. So the net gain is negative. Having a better record than the Sixers and not swapping picks was not a win.

But there really was no risk by the Kings on the pick swap. None. OK, maybe what, 1%? I'll take the 99% every day and twice on Sunday. And if we did trade picks, it means that we jumped from #8 to top 4. Which the Kings have never done in the ping-pong ball era. I'll take a jump into top 4 any day and twice on Sunday as well.

2nd rounders are pointless? IT on line 1 for you.

The Kings 2015 first round pick? You mean the failed experiment of Nik (2014 ick?) Sunk costs, man. That's like talking about Portland's 2007 #1 pick instead of thinking about who it actually was and how that turned out.

I think you really need to re-read this:

But the question for us is whether WE won the trade. In this trade we had $21M (and the draft rights to two players) put into our pockets at the cost of one draft pick and maybe a swap (though the swap would seem unlikely). The question basically comes down to what's better to have, $21M or a draft pick? That really comes down to this: if you were given the option to give $21M to Philly to get our 2019 pick back, would you do it? If yes, we lost the trade in your eyes. But if no...

 

[Livinthedream]

Again, the pick swap was silly because it was a one way deal and unnecessary. We sold our 2015 pick and a future 1st round pick for $21 mil. That money was for Wes Matthews. We bet that we were going to be in the playoffs. We lost on both counts. Insult to injury would have been losing the pick swap.

The 2nd round picks were already drafted if I remember correctly and if they were any good they would have already been playingin the NBA. But here is the thing. We can't say that 2nd round picks are important using IT as an example and then turn around and say late 1st round picks aren't important so we don't need ours.

 

[Livinthedream]

So let's say that the pick swap occurred in 2016 and in a future draft. Are the Sixers suddenly going to become great that they're draft pick won't be any good. Yea they get the first pick this year, but they won't have a better record than the Kings. The power of balance is shifting where the West is becoming much weaker overall than the East, so it's not like the Sixers are going to jettison to the top with a bunch of rookies.

Have you seen Stauskas play? He's pretty much worthless. He was drafted for his shooting, but can't shoot. That's bad. Maybe he grows out of the his deer in the headlights style of play, but the Kings simply weren't in a position to find out. It's funny how so much value is put into Stauskas simply because he was drafted high, but nothing of value is seen from those 2nd round picks. At least one of those picks looks decent.

I'm sure the Bulls pulled a fast one on the Kings when they signed 10th pick Fredette and didn't even have to give the Kings anything.

I think the Stauskus pick was garbage. Said so from draft day going forward. Our gamble was that we could get something better than Nik and make the playoffs. Marco was not better than Nik. We didn't make the playoffs . We lost the bet. Not having to swap picks is not a victory. We gained nothing.

 

[peacelate]

Again, the pick swap was silly because it was a one way deal and unnecessary. We sold our 2015 pick and a future 1st round pick for $21 mil. That money was for Wes Matthews. We bet that we were going to be in the playoffs. We lost on both counts. Insult to injury would have been losing the pick swap.

The 2nd round picks were already drafted if I remember correctly and if they were any good they would have already been playingin the NBA. But here is the thing. We can't say that 2nd round picks are important using IT as an example and then turn around and say late 1st round picks aren't important so we don't need ours.

Again, that first round pick hasn't been conveyed yet. For all we know, that pick could end up being in the 20's. Would you rather have KK and Bell or a pick in the 20's who may not contribute anything. We just don't know yet.

It's not like that trade was only meant for this year. KK and Bell are still part of this team right?

International players don't always come over immediately because they simply aren't ready to contribute. Remember Peja stayed overseas after he was drafted?

 

[John Galt]

But was it necessary though? we could've signed Rondo and Marco just by stretching Landry and making small adjustments...

Trading a pick that can become unprotected so easily is irresponsible- it's very rare for team to make that trade, especially for so little value and especially since it's due a year after the franchise player contract expires, we basically pushed our rebuild one more year away if things don't work out for very little gain.

It's not catastrophic but it was a bad trade- we locked ourselves to a risky plan because we have far less incentive to rebuild (even if it will be what we should be doing) and we can't trade a pick until 2021 (and we don't have a lot of trade assets to begin with)- and the gain from the trade is pretty unclear.

I don't think Vlade cleared the space to sign Rondo and Marco, he cleared it to go hard after Matthews. Is that right or is the timing/salary # wrong for that assumption?

Did we need the cap clearing deal to offer max to Wes Matthews? Mavs got him so it was on to plan B?

 

[KingsFanSince85]

Second best.

Our best ever draft pick was Quincy Douby.

Good one.

In all seriousness, ranking the worthwhile draft picks during the Sac era could be a tad interesting. Pretty much all those picks occurred between 1994 and 2010.

My top 3 would be Cousins, Peja, and Jason Williams (since that pick eventually netted Mike Bibby). Hopefully WCS makes the list someday....

 

[Kingster]

I'm not on board with the idea that the FO should not consider the possibility that their trade with Philly might not work. That's why you hedge your bets in option trading rather than possibly losing the house with a naked call option. Any mature FO knows that their decisions are decisions of probability, not of absolutes, and therefore all possible outcomes must be evaluated, even possible failure.

 

[whozit]

I'm not on board with the idea that the FO should not consider the possibility that their trade with Philly might not work. That's why you hedge your bets in option trading rather than possibly losing the house with a naked call option. Any mature FO knows that their decisions are decisions of probability, not of absolutes, and therefore all possible outcomes must be evaluated, even possible failure.

We don't know that they didn't. Just because it was a ballsy move as brick said, doesn't negate the desperation that brought about the necessity of that type of move in the first place. The ship had to turn. The course the franchise had been on was one of disaster. Whether or not it has been averted remains to be seen. Just because someone wants to look at the deal as half-baked, doesn't mean the risks weren't properly evaluated.

There are a lot of details that we don't know. Just because other teams made moves, doesn't mean those moves were available to the Kings. There was a lot of turmoil/underhanded dealings within Kings management, even Vlade's coming to power wasn't exactly on the up and up. Because of this turmoil, the offers on the table may have been the bend over the table type.

My estimation the team went from a near certainty of disaster to a very much slighter possibility of one. Might be "slight" but it is a possibility nonetheless.

 

[King Baller]

I think the Stauskus pick was garbage. Said so from draft day going forward. Our gamble was that we could get something better than Nik and make the playoffs. Marco was not better than Nik. We didn't make the playoffs . We lost the bet. Not having to swap picks is not a victory. We gained nothing.

I think it is too early to really judge this trade. Lets wait and see how Nik, Marco and Kosta play this season. One of those Europeans might turn into a player is a season or two. Then of course there is a pick swap next year and the only actual first round pick included in the deal yet to come.

But most of all lets see how the Kings play this year.

 

[Iced Espresso]

We have a chance to be better off.

I think a lot of people assumed if Chicago ended up with a second in 2017, then the pick would be conveyable in 2018. I did for example.

But now we know we get to keep our 2018 pick no matter where it lays.

Just have make the playoffs in 2019 now and be out of the lottery.

 

[Iced Espresso]

I think it is too early to really judge this trade. Lets wait and see how Nik, Marco and Kosta play this season. One of those Europeans might turn into a player is a season or two. Then of course there is a pick swap next year and the only actual first round pick included in the deal yet to come.

But most of all lets see how the Kings play this year.

Oh you can judge the trade, cost of cap space at the start of FA

That's what we got.

How the money is spent is a separate conversation. Should be a lesson to overpay average talent, why you may want to consider moves at the deadline over the start of FA.

At least we have no stretch loot on the books, so add that to added cap space this off season too.

 

[Iced Espresso]

Oh you can judge the trade, cost of cap space at the start of FA

That's what we got.

How the money is spent is a separate conversation. Should be a lesson to overpay average talent, why you may want to consider moves at the deadline over the start of FA.

At least we have no stretch loot on the books, so add that to added cap space this off season too.

Actually next off season too. Not having to stretch Landry gives us a small amount of cap space this season and next season.

It may not sound like much, but every penny counts, every little bit you can spend may be the difference in a future trade or signing.

 

[steelevt]

Yep. The only way the Kings were going to have a better chance than the Sixers at winning the draft lottery was if the Kings' entire starting line-up magically vanished from the face of the earth and even then George Karl and a collection of Kings bench players probably would have won more games than the wonderful turd sandwich of a roster Hinkie's seasons of "getting one over" on the league had created.

I mean, their best player was essentially Ish Smith.

Yet they were still able to beat the Kings this season.

 

[kingsboi]

Yet they were still able to beat the Kings this season.

I think every team in the league but maybe Denver and the Lakers beat the Kings at least once this season

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Kings swept six teams this season: Nuggets, Pacers, lakers, Bucks, Knicks and Raptors. Also won the season series versus the Jazz, Suns and Mavericks, and split versus the Hawks, Nets, 76ers, Magic, Wizards, Pistons and Thunder (!!!). We weren't quite as bad as our record indicated.

 

[VF21]

Yet they were still able to beat the Kings this season.

And we beat Chicago in their best year.